Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone,

I hope this is the correct forum for this:

I have been considering starting a brand new Ork force but have been put off by the sheer amount of models I would need to paint for a 2000K army, as well as the general ork tactics/codex strength.

The Ork codex appeals to using massed amounts of models which die quickly instead of tough MEQ units. While strength in numbers and lots of disposable units are the epitome of orkiness, I would like to see a more resilient set of rules for the green-skins that allows them to be tougher and fielded in smaller numbers, something along the lines of the space marine codices. I have been considering using another 40K codex, and proxying the ork model range for the marine model range.

My question is: What is the legality of using a fully proxied army with a different codex? (For example playing codex space marines with ork models) If I were to make clear designations which ork unit corresponds to which marine unit, modeled them with the correct bases/weapons/vehicle dimensions and otherwise treated them like a marine force, would they be considered tournament legal, and would they be accepted in gaming circles?

My current group has agreed to let me field such an army but I want to know what the implications of gaming outside the group would be.

I am planning on using space marine "looted vehicles" to avoid dimension and tactical advantage disputes. I also plan on using nobz as tactical marines, stormboyz as assault squads, MANZ as terminators (All armed with appropriate looking weapons)etc. Of course, any unit not in codex space marines will not be used, and I will not be using any rules from the ork codex.

In other words this is a question entirely on the esthetics of the force.

Please let me know your thoughts, thank you!

I have a friend that runs a fully modeled and awesomely painted Thunderwolf Cav army of Orks on Boars. They have plate armor, are WYSIWYG, and a blast to play against. I say oh for it, both you and your opponent will be entertained.

SJ

Rule of cool. If everything is obvious and you've done it to look cool and it looks cool then I'll be OK with it.

You could even use Fantasy Black Orks who are loaded in armor to give off the appearance of Power Armor as well, just paint it up differently :p Even strap Power Packs to them if you really wanted XD

So long as your opponent agrees to it you should be fine. I proxy models before I commit to buying them anyway

I'd have no issue, as long as you explained what codex you were using and what each unit represented.

I have an urge to ressurrect the Squats using the Space Wolf codex, but i haven't the funds, as yet.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Rule of cool. If everything is obvious and you've done it to look cool and it looks cool then I'll be OK with it.

The golden rule of tabletop. If we only cared about the game, then we'd play with plastic tokens or cardboard chits. Custom modeling and proxies can negatively impact gameplay somewhat (they can hinder the opponent's ability to visually identify models), but they also increase the Cool Factor of the game significantly.

If it looks cool its good to go.

Technically, since you're making an effort for the models to match the wargear/profiles of the rules, it is 'Counts As' and not 'Proxy'.

Proxy is when you say 'This Solo cup is a Drop Pod' or 'For this game, this Lascannon is a Missile Launcher' with no effort to establish actual correct modelling.

A Necron army made entirely of Ork models


Seriously though, if it's obvious what everything is suppossed to be, I don't see an issue with it.

Proxieing in a squad or two, or converting like those necrons above is 100% fine, but I personally wouldn't be okay with like an Ork Boy squad proxied for terminators or anything like that, throws off the game look to me.

If you're consistent about it (everything needs to be about the right size and shape, guns need to be visually distinct from each other and consistently represent the same thing) there's no problem. If you want to represent Terminators with regular infantry models, or you change what a gun means from model to model, then we start to run into problems.

The 'legality' is entirely dependent on where and with whom you play your games.

 adamsouza wrote:
A Necron army made entirely of Ork models


Seriously though, if it's obvious what everything is suppossed to be, I don't see an issue with it.

That's amazing.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If you're consistent about it (everything needs to be about the right size and shape, guns need to be visually distinct from each other and consistently represent the same thing) there's no problem. If you want to represent Terminators with regular infantry models, or you change what a gun means from model to model, then we start to run into problems.

This. As long as Meltas are obviously distinguished from Bolters and Captains from regular guys, go for it. Also, as long as you're not Modeling for Advantage or homebrewing/mixing rules, I'm totally cool with it.

For me, it would depend on the reasons why anyone is using proxies. If it is to try out something prior to buying it then I'm all for it, if it is on the scale of an entire army, I would at least like to see some effort put into buying models for the new force. That being said I would most certainly play against said proxied army.

Thanks for all the input guys!

As to why I am doing this, it's because I am split between loving the orky look and hating their play-style, and loving the space marine play-style and not being a fan of the look. I'm also looking for a modelling challenge as I've been building GW kits for years now and feel my skills are at a level where I can go above obvious conversion work and actually try to match art style, proportions and details.

I'm happy to hear this idea is pretty common. In terms of modelling I was thinking of the following rules:

1) All models come on bases originally meant for space marine models regardless of base size in ork range.
2) I will only use bigger/more expensive models like nobs to represent tacticals and MANZ to represent terminators. It will actually cost more to complete than a real marine force would but it's all about the look for me. (No using grots as marines, no sir)
3) All vehicles will be "looted" from the SM range so there are no arguments on advantages, firing arks etc.
4) All weapons of one type will be the same across the range. For examples, Nob shootas and big shootas will be all bolters. Power Klaws are power fists, I'll put melta tips on orky guns so they are clearly visible as meltas, same with las cannons, same with plasma, grav weapons etc.
5) I will model units to be reminiscent of their space marine counterpart models. (I.e. if a terminator has a thunderhammer and storm shield, I will make an orky hammer and a slab of rusty metal, or vehicle armor to for him to carry. If a space marine librarian has a staff, so would his orky doppelganger.)

I am thinking of making up and printing a sheet that has a nice key printed on it with pictures which shows a picture of an ork shoota = bolter, etc. which will also have pictures of the units and their counterparts. That way my opponent gets to look at this throughout the game, and all confusion is avoided.


Thanks for your input guys!

PS That is an amazing looking Necron force

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
4) All weapons of one type will be the same across the range. For examples, Nob shootas and big shootas will be all bolters. Power Klaws are power fists, I'll put melta tips on orky guns so they are clearly visible as meltas, same with las cannons, same with plasma, grav weapons etc.

I would swap the shootas and big shootas for bolters personally, but as long as it is consistent, it will be fine.

I am thinking of making up and printing a sheet that has a nice key printed on it with pictures which shows a picture of an ork shoota = bolter, etc. which will also have pictures of the units and their counterparts. That way my opponent gets to look at this throughout the game, and all confusion is avoided.

This is the best way to handle a significantly counts-as'd force.