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I've mostly played Necrons and some CSM, but I wanted an Imperium army and after hours of deciding which chaoter I liked best I chose the Mantis Warriors. But I want some advice about what I should collect, who my HQ should be, and so on. Please throw any advice you have about this list!

Welcome to playing Space Marines!

The Mantis Warriors have some really awesome abilities, and their Chief Librarian is a BEAST! I'm assuming you are using the Forge World rules for the chapter (if not... definitely consider it because they are really awesome) and can be found here:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/FWchaptertactics.pdf

and here is the character list:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/badabupdate-v2.pdf

I would definitely look into some Devastator Centurions with grav to go with Chief Librarian Ahazra Redth. For a small points game this may be a little much, but it's a great combo. Ahazra has an awesome warlord trait and his gear and psychic prowess (with access to Divination and Mirage) make him a really great and fluffy choice. He can buff their shooting with Divination (or protect them with a possible invuln save), and give them Shrouded with Mirage. Also, his Warlord Trait gives these guys Interceptor and Night Fighting... which is just awesome on them.

You could also put Ahazra with some Sternguard in a drop pod (maybe plasma or grav?) and land in some cover for a really great cover save if you pull off Mirage... just another option.

Also, normal Tactical Marines or Scouts will do pretty great since they are meant for fighting over objectives that are usually in cover/ruins.. and your CTs are really great for just that.

As far as collecting and building an army goes, I'd stick to him as your HQ since he's pretty versatile and fluffy, some grav cents since you can always use them, some tac squads in your transport of choice, and some AA (probably another flier is your best bet here).

Hope that helps!

I knew the chapter tactics (one of the things that made me collect Mantis Warriors) but I didn't know about the Chief Librarian, he is really cool! I'll have to find a model to be him and convert it a bit.

Yeah, they are definitely a neat Chapter. I think that something like this could be fun... it gives you multiple targets for Mirage (you could cast it on the tank!) and also provides a great unit for keeping your HQ safe. It's also pretty small to transport but well-rounded IMO:

Ahazra Redth
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, dozer blade, melta, melta bombs
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, dozer blade, melta
Centurion Devastator Squad (3) - grav x3, hurricane bolters x3
Relic Sicaran Battle Tank - lascannon sponsons, schism of marsmars

I'm probably going to be playing against tyranids first, so would Meltas and Gravs be the best option?


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Also, is there a good alternative to centurions? Cus I'm probably not going to be able to buy any of them soon.

I guess flamers on the tac squads would be ok if you're fighting swarms of bugs... it's still an assault weapon which you want if you have to assault something before it hits you (which is what you want to do if battling in cover with theses CTs).

The Centurions are just some of the best units in the SM codex, and can really benefit from your CTs, that's why I recommended them. The hurricane bolters on their chest are nice against swarms and even with the grav amps allowing failed re-rolls makes those guns just as good as bolters against low armor units (wound on a 5 or 6 with a re-roll is sorta close to wound on a 4 lol!)

Hmm.. I built this list idea around them but surely other units could work. What models do you have at your disposal?

I could get some centurions soon actually, but I have many other marines at my command

Yeah, I mean play what you enjoy and like honestly. If you want any more feedback on a list just post it up and I'll chime in!

Well, I'm just wondering if I assult marines against some Nids, how do I make sure that they don't get ripped to shreds by Geanstealers or gaunts?


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Ok here's a list.

HQ: Ahazra Redth: 165pts

Troops: 10 Tacticals: Flamer, Rhino
9 Tacticals: Flamer, Rhino

Heavy: 3 Centurions: Grav Cannon and Amps, Hurricanes.
Relic Sicarian: Bolter Sponsons.

This leaves around 80pts which I'm not sure on how to spend

Well honestly the best thing to do against ork boys and gaunts is just to stay in cover (so they assault you at I1) and use your bolters, staying at 12" if you can. That's still a 10+ needed since the difficult terrain and is fail-able... but you really want to try to be the ones to assault them if you can and know you're about to be assaulted that way you can at least take away one of their attacks.

Now, I definitely dont think assault them should be your goal, I'm just saying Tactical Marines are very versatile and can be used in many ways, so keep it in mind. Also, don't forget you can combat squad and maybe screen one squad with the other... so if those 5 die, you can shoot them the next turn with the other half of your squad.

Also, if you are sure you're playing against hordes of stuff I'd go for a Thunderfire Cannon. For things that infiltrate towards you, just try to box them out and funnel them through terrain and hopefully just keep shooting and moving.

You may want to look at some Rhinos as opposed to Drop Pods as your transports of choice then if you don't want to get near your enemy.

Some other things that could be good against lots of small infantry would be Sternguard with two heavy flamers in a Rhino.. being able to drive up to them and flame them with two heavy flamers from the hatch is pretty neat.


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Ok, if you don't want to take the Sicaran upgrades, then I'd shoot for a TFC for crowd control. You can free up 20 more points to make that happen by just dropping a couple more marines from the low-end squad I guess. If you know you're up against swarms then that will be pretty good. The grav cents will one-shot any MCs he brings to back them up, as long as you can get them in range.


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If there are no large targets and you really don't need the grav, I guess you could run something completely different... I just dont' see that happening at that point level because MCs are really good at small sized games to back up troops.

Actually I was thinking, is a Stormtalon reasonable at 1000pts?



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I have a Stormtalon, and I think it would help out a lot, but is that unfair or something?

Also last question, is 165pts too much to spend on HQ? He is really good, but I could just have a normal Librarian with Divination for much less.

I'd say no, if it supplements the type of list you're going for it's worth whatever the cost is.. it'snot too much.

Think of it this way:

A normal librarian lvl 2 (with divination in your case as well) is 90 points.

The ability to re-roll failed psychics is basically unobtainable, except for Tiggy (Ultramarines - he's a beast though... sort of an exception to the rule, but he's 165) and from the Bones of Osrak (a relic from the Sentinels of Terra supplement - coming in at 25 points). I would make sure you get a clarification from FW as to his powers though because the wording may be contested by some as to whether or not it is still valid in 7th... but I think it is.

Ok so you're at 115 now. If you feel his ability to cast Mirage (which you always have) is worth another chunk of points, add that on. This does mean however that you can only get one additional power from Divination.. so your chances of getting perfect timing are lower... so that is sort of a negative. I would think too, now in 7th (but again I'd get this clarified by the people at FW.. they're good at answering emails about this sort of stuff to clarify) you DON'T get the Primaris power for free because you don't have all your powers from the same tree thanks to Mirage... but since it's not really "from a tree" I don't know if that counts...it might be fine actually so you'd have Prescience and another power; you'll have to figure that out. Don't forget that Mirage gives a guaranteed Shrouded though, which is amazing! I'd say that plus access to Divination is worth another 20 points.

Ok so he also has a 5++ so that is worth a few more points (let's say 5?), and he also has a psychic hood (so another 5 points worth maybe?)

Finally, his ability to give his unit interceptor and Nightvision thanks to his Warlord Trait is really really good! (people take Coteaz for 100 points for his sieze protection but also for his "I've been expecting you" rule which is a gimped short-range interceptor...) I'd say that's worth another 40 points!

So if you total up all his "stuff" I view his worth around 185 points - so you're getting a bargain Plus he's fluffy, would be a really awesome conversion, and just plain fits the army!


Oh and a Stormtalon is a good choice for clearing infantry from objectives at 1000 points. I like the skyhammer missiles because they pair well with the assault cannon; they are effective against the same types of targets the assault cannon likes to shoot.

Awesome I'm really close to a final list then

Great, can't wait to see!

Interesting read guys. I've been playing Mantis Warriors for a long while and have been trying to come up with some good combinations that utilize the IA rules for the chapter and Redth. I usually pair Redth with some Dev Cents as TC recommends. works well as long as you have enough psychic points to make your powers go off.

Ok, I really can't get any Cents before the game, so the list is going to have to go without unfortunaly....

Understood. I've read your limitations, just letting you know what's worked for me. Pairing with sternguard might work as well. Their varying ammo, 2 heavy weapons and combi-weapons make them very versatile and a good target for both his innate and divination spells.

Fair enough, he could also be quite effective with some Sternguard I'd imagine in a drop pod? With 2 heavy flamers and his psychic abilities, you should be pretty safe from charges and in cover, shrouded. I'd just run them bare with special ammo and build the rest of the list to crack open armor. I'm not sure what other models you have at your disposal... allying in a Knight would be kinda cool.

I don't have a Knight, but i do have Sternguard, one even with a heavy Flamer. They could go in a drop pod with Redth and be put to good use.

Ok. Well not sure how many models you have, and what they're modeled with but you could do this:

Ahazra Redth
Sternguard (7) - drop pod, heavy flamer
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, melta, combi-melta, melta bombs
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, melta, combi-melta, melta bombs
Stormtalon - skyhammer missiles
Thunderfire Cannon

If you have a Stormraven instead you could always put him and the Sternguard in that, and change it up; or all pods.. just some ideas.

Ok here's a spot on 1000 points rough list

HQ: Redth 165pts

Troops: x2 Tactical, 10 marines, Plasma gun, Rhino. 190 x 2pts

Elites: 5 Sternguard: Drop pod, all with Bolters 155pts

Fast: Stormtalon, Skyhammer launcher 125pts

Heavy: Relic Sicarian: Bolter sponsons, War of Murder.

That's what I've come up with to combat Nids so far...


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Although I've just read your list, and a Thunderfire sounds good, but I lack one of those too...

Decay wrote:
Ok here's a spot on 1000 points rough list

HQ: Redth 165pts

Troops: x2 Tactical, 10 marines, Plasma gun, Rhino. 190 x 2pts

Elites: 5 Sternguard: Drop pod, all with Bolters 155pts

Fast: Stormtalon, Skyhammer launcher 125pts

Heavy: Relic Sicarian: Bolter sponsons, War of Murder.

That's what I've come up with to combat Nids so far...


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Although I've just read your list, and a Thunderfire sounds good, but I lack one of those too...

I like this list and if you have the Relic Sicaran already, definitely field that bad boy. Looks nice!

And another stupid question, should I get rid of the War of Murder on the Sicarian? I could put those points into Sternguard weapons instead.

No, I think it's a fine upgrade to take if you know the opponent will be fielding MCs. I would keep it.

Ok then, I know he has a walking HT for his HQ

Yeah I really like the list. I think with the Sternguard and Sicaran you've found a nice mix between competitive and fun/fluffy for this points level. Let me know how it goes!

Should I combat squad the Tacticals? Or should they stay as ten man squads?

I always recommend combat squadding the marines. They can both start in the same rhino; one can disembark while the other stays in (it just can't get back in though); it allows for 2 krak grenades per rounds of shooting; it allows you to screen one squad with the other from a charge - the list goes on and on.

I would definitely combat squad.

Yet another change, I should probably stop changing everything, but the limit is now 1200 for our battle. So I think that I'm going to add my Cloak and Sniper Scouts, not sure what else....


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I think I'll upgrade the Sterguard with more members and better weapons.