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My attempt to be snarky failed. But probably the liberal ones on the coasts I'd imagine.

I'd proffer there might be less than you think. The "T" portion of GLBT rights have been substantially less served (being a subgroup of a sub group).

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd proffer there might be less than you think. The "T" portion of GLBT rights have been substantially less served (being a subgroup of a sub group).

And at times the T faces as much opposition from the GLB as they do from the groups not included in any of the letters.

 Frazzled wrote:
Please list the number of states where its illegal. This should be interesting in its brevity.

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Inclusive-no medical hormones or surgery required
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Florida
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Vermont
Washington
District of Columbia

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Needs Surgical Reassignment or government documentation of gender (usually a doctors note and beginning of hormones)
Arizona
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Michigan
Missouri
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom based upon discrestion of the establishment: No law for or against
Alaska
Arkansas
Delaware
Hawaii
Indiana
Lousiana
Mississippi
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah

Transgendered NOT allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom, Requires birth certificate Gender:
Alabama
Georgia
Kentucky
Montana
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Virginia

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd proffer there might be less than you think. The "T" portion of GLBT rights have been substantially less served (being a subgroup of a sub group).

And at times the T faces as much opposition from the GLB as they do from the groups not included in any of the letters.

really? Why?

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd proffer there might be less than you think. The "T" portion of GLBT rights have been substantially less served (being a subgroup of a sub group).

And at times the T faces as much opposition from the GLB as they do from the groups not included in any of the letters.

really? Why?

Heck if I know honestly.

nkelsch wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Please list the number of states where its illegal. This should be interesting in its brevity.

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Inclusive-no medical hormones or surgery required
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Florida
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Vermont
Washington
District of Columbia

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Needs Surgical Reassignment or government documentation of gender (usually a doctors note and beginning of hormones)
Arizona
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Michigan
Missouri
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom based upon discrestion of the establishment: No law for or against
Alaska
Arkansas
Delaware
Hawaii
Indiana
Lousiana
Mississippi
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah

Transgendered NOT allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom, Requires birth certificate Gender:
Alabama
Georgia
Kentucky
Montana
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Virginia

So fifteen. Admittedly thats more than I thought there'd be. but that doesn't make it illegal to complain about it, and you'll have to cite if those actually mandate those restrooms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd proffer there might be less than you think. The "T" portion of GLBT rights have been substantially less served (being a subgroup of a sub group).

And at times the T faces as much opposition from the GLB as they do from the groups not included in any of the letters.

really? Why?

Heck if I know honestly.

Thats strange.

 Frazzled wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Please list the number of states where its illegal. This should be interesting in its brevity.

Spoiler:

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Inclusive-no medical hormones or surgery required
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Florida
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Vermont
Washington
District of Columbia

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Needs Surgical Reassignment or government documentation of gender (usually a doctors note and beginning of hormones)
Arizona
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Michigan
Missouri
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania

Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom based upon discrestion of the establishment: No law for or against
Alaska
Arkansas
Delaware
Hawaii
Indiana
Lousiana
Mississippi
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah

Transgendered NOT allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom, Requires birth certificate Gender:
Alabama
Georgia
Kentucky
Montana
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Virginia

So fifteen. Admittedly thats more than I thought there'd be. but that doesn't make it illegal to complain about it, and you'll have to cite if those actually mandate those restrooms.

It couldn't be illegal to complain about it? That would be a violation of protected speech, wouldn't?

Clarify my man.

Content warning: medically explicit description of genitalia function.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well if you're pre-op you're still whatever you are before the surgery. Simple.

Right.

Transsexual blokes, who have been on testosterone for years and grown massive beards and muscles, should use the women's toilets and locker rooms if they haven't yet - or do not intend to - had genital reconstruction surgery.

Even if their HRT has grown their into a that can and a .

They've not had a surgeon's knife on their junk, so they should take their beard and penis and bald spot and always wash them in a communal women's shower, apologising in their booming broken voices for the smell of their sweat and cologne.

Gaze upon the world you have wrought, genital inquisitors. Truly, you have made the locker room and toilet a place where cisgender people can feel comfortable and safe.

Until intersex people cone along and ruin everything for the binary enforcers by existing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly, a lot of this sort of nonsense could be avoided if more people listened more to the minority groups they're trying to accommodate into policy.

You may have the most logical and rational mind in the world, but if you're feeding into it data derived from like a half-remember drag queen fight on Jerry Springer and a bunch of sensationalist Fox headlines, you're going to talk yourself into a very silly position.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Gaze upon the world you have wrought, genital inquisitors.

That sounds like a unit from Codex: Grey Knights.

 Ouze wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Gaze upon the world you have wrought, genital inquisitors.

That sounds like a unit from Codex: Grey Knights.

They specialize in combating Slanesh.

A few years ago I attended a private convention where due to the high number of cross-dress cosplayers, trans and gender-ambiguous attendees, a security guard took it upon himself to be the literal Toilet Police.

Just let that ferment in your head a little. Someone cared so much about the two or three minutes of the day that everyone needs to attend to, that he invaded the privacy of people out to have a great time.

Back then I didn't know my rights, didn't know what to say, and just stammered when I was asked whether I was heading into the right room or not. These days I'd love to say I'd let go at such idiocy with righteous fury, but honestly I can't swear by it. This sort of action really disarms you, over such a "minor" thing.

 Ouze wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Gaze upon the world you have wrought, genital inquisitors.

That sounds like a unit from Codex: Grey Knights.

Commanded by the Emperor's Whore Master.

nkelsch wrote:


Transgendered allowed to use Gender Identity Lockerroom: Needs Surgical Reassignment or government documentation of gender (usually a doctors note and beginning of hormones)
Arizona
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Michigan
Missouri
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania

So based on this list here, in the OP there's only one of two options:

The person being complained about broke the law because they clearly had not had reassignment surgery (seriously, how else would an average person recognize a "male" from a "female" in most cases?)

OR

The person being complained about reported their "status" with whatever Michigan's "government documentation of gender" is to the gym in question.

In the latter case, it would seem that the gym wasn't explicit/clear enough to the complainer that their hands were tied. As I said earlier "don't judge" isn't a valid argument when receiving a complaint. A more appropriate response would be, "The person in question furnished this establishment with State issued documentation entitling them to use of the facility in question."



Ultimately though, I dislike Planet "Fitness" about as much as I dislike crossfit, so I hope that the lady goes to an actual gym and gets some actual health benefits out of it, instead of monthly pizza/doughnut parties and dumb crap like that.

She looks kinda out of place doesn't she? If anything I'd say she's in significant danger being forced to use the bathroom of her birth sex.

Doesn't help that the Texans have put a bounty on individuals using the "wrong" bathroom. A member of the Texas GOP (as in an official, not just some random yahoo) even said to a friend of mine regarding trans and intersex people...

" However, if they and you think you can intimidate the human race into bowing down to your perverse agenda, you had better guess again. ... WE are the human race and you are tolerated only to a point.,"

Charming really. So are the concerns about molesters and terrible people using this so called loophole well founded? Watson! The evidence!



Sooooo.... decade plus on a lot of those laws, and nothing. Nada. Zilch. It's interesting to note that this push back on trans rights and inclusiveness is happening nationwide right now as a defeated GOP struggles for a fear issue after most of the country figured out two blokes getting married wasn't exactly a bad thing, and the Supreme Court set to hand down a devastating courtroom defeat to the religious right. There's current anti-trans legislation in Texas (Five bills!), Minnesota, Arkansas, Kansas (the lite version of the former?), Florida, Alabama and Kentucky.

I guess they figure they can get away with it this time because large portions of the LGB part of the LGBT is quickly tossing the T under the bus in a bid for stronger social acceptability, especially as they finish off "their" goals. (not that this is new behavior in the LGBT sphere) and Trans/Intersex people are extremely uncommon, and with the relatively complex set of medical and psychological issues that make up the group, far more alien than liking people of the same gender, making the latest group the religious right wants to pick on even more to the fringe and marginal then the last.

I'd love to see some of these donkey caves talk this trash to someone like Senior Chief Petty officer and Navy SEAL Kristen Beck in person. I feel like the cognitive dissonance of insulting a vet with a purple heart and impeccable military record would make some heads pop.

Please show where Texas has put a " bounty" on someone using the wrong bathroom. Do you know what a bounty is?

The only legislation I know of was fighting legislation in Houston that would have mandated three different bathrooms because the cost is...stupid. There are lots of bills posted at the state level but very little of anything passes (its designed like that), which is good because I share your notation that the "redneck" quotient is a bit high in a lot of the bills in general.

I'd love to see some of these donkey caves talk this trash to someone like Senior Chief Petty officer and Navy SEAL Kristen Beck in person. I feel like the cognitive dissonance of insulting a vet with a purple heart and impeccable military record would make some heads pop.

I like how you would resort to violence against people who disagree with you. Stay classy.

 Frazzled wrote:
Please show where Texas has put a " bounty" on someone using the wrong bathroom. Do you know what a bounty is?

The only legislation I know of was fighting legislation in Houston that would have mandated three different bathrooms because the cost is...stupid. There are lots of bills posted at the state level but very little of anything passes (its designed like that), which is good because I share your notation that the "redneck" quotient is a bit high in a lot of the bills in general.

I'd love to see some of these donkey caves talk this trash to someone like Senior Chief Petty officer and Navy SEAL Kristen Beck in person. I feel like the cognitive dissonance of insulting a vet with a purple heart and impeccable military record would make some heads pop.

I like how you would resort to violence against people who disagree with you. Stay classy.

Well typing it into google pops up HB 2801. http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/84R/billtext/pdf/HB02801I.pdf#navpanes=0

Line 21 is the bounty part. If your a student who sues (and wins) under this statute you are awarded an extra $2000 this is on top of any actual damages.

(One of the confusing part of this bill is that is says schools should provided a bathroom, but then a few lines down says they aren't required to build or maintain a bathroom.)

Not seeing the issue. Its actually the three bathroom rule.

I'm completely for it.

 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing the issue. Its actually the three bathroom rule.

I'm completely for it.

It doesn't mandate a third bathroom though. Right in subsection c of the first part. They don't have to build maintain of modify any room in order to have that third bathroom, so how are they going to provided a bathroom?

 Frazzled wrote:
Please show where Texas has put a " bounty" on someone using the wrong bathroom. Do you know what a bounty is?

The only legislation I know of was fighting legislation in Houston that would have mandated three different bathrooms because the cost is...stupid. There are lots of bills posted at the state level but very little of anything passes (its designed like that), which is good because I share your notation that the "redneck" quotient is a bit high in a lot of the bills in general.

I'd love to see some of these donkey caves talk this trash to someone like Senior Chief Petty officer and Navy SEAL Kristen Beck in person. I feel like the cognitive dissonance of insulting a vet with a purple heart and impeccable military record would make some heads pop.

I like how you would resort to violence against people who disagree with you. Stay classy.

Bounty is as quoted.

And when did I suggest resorting to violence against any one? Being amused by the thought of small minded idiots being unable to process a decorated SEAL and trans women is hardly suggesting anything violent should happen to them. Get your reading glasses checked Frazz.

I do find it interesting that you're down for the expensive, government interference option though Frazz, as opposed to say... the way things have been, which were fine for everyone, except you know, aforementioned small minority of small minded bigots and a political faction desperate for a new scare tactic.

However, this mess HAS revealed an actual threat. Apparently there is a real danger of people going into women's restrooms and videoing those in them.
Christian groups are sending in video teams into womens restrooms to show how their own privacy is being violated by those women and children they suspect of being Trans. They then publish the videos online, after suitable editing.

http://etnyc.org/2015/03/06/charlotte-north-carolina-city-council-openly-discriminate-against-transgender-women/

nomotog wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing the issue. Its actually the three bathroom rule.

I'm completely for it.

It doesn't mandate a third bathroom though. Right in subsection c of the first part. They don't have to build maintain of modify any room in order to have that third bathroom, so how are they going to provided a bathroom?

yes I looked at that as well as it contravened (aka you're right). Close off an existing bathroom.

Sorry we're talking teens and pre-teens here, not adults. We have separate locker rooms for a reason (because Grll bathrooms are frankly disgusting-don't believe me? Clean one some time)

Just do what my dry cleaner does, no bathrooms or locker rooms for anyone. Need to pee? GTFO, you should have thought about doing that somewhere else.

Well you did say you'd like them to say it in front of a former SEAL. While I think its funny too (I have this image of Church Chat lady beating up a politician with her purse-wow I just dated myself) violence doesn't work against bigotry.

I do find it interesting that you're down for the expensive, government interference option though Frazz, as opposed to say... the way things have been, which were fine for everyone, except you know, aforementioned small minority of small minded bigots and a political faction desperate for a new scare tactic.

Lets separate out the "small minded bigots" and everyone who is uncomfortable with this. I'm fine as adults in a private enterprise.

If accommodation is made then I am ok with the law as we are dealing with minors.

 Frazzled wrote:

nomotog wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing the issue. Its actually the three bathroom rule.

I'm completely for it.

It doesn't mandate a third bathroom though. Right in subsection c of the first part. They don't have to build maintain of modify any room in order to have that third bathroom, so how are they going to provided a bathroom?

yes I looked at that as well as it contravened (aka you're right). Close off an existing bathroom.

Sorry we're talking teens and pre-teens here, not adults. We have separate locker rooms for a reason (because Grll bathrooms are frankly disgusting-don't believe me? Clean one some time)

I don't know how to fix the bathroom thing, or if it is even broken as it is now.

 Frazzled wrote:
Well you did say you'd like them to say it in front of a former SEAL. While I think its funny too (I have this image of Church Chat lady beating up a politician with her purse-wow I just dated myself) violence doesn't work against bigotry.

If Chief Beck feels like she needs to punch someone's throat in, I'm sure it'll be justified. Like I said, I just want to see Team Rah Rah Support The Troops/Moral Majority Nutters brains seize up when coming face to face with a combat decorated spec ops veteran, who is also part of the group they're working to crucify this week.

text removed.

Reds8n

I was unwillingly subjected to viewing somebody else's junk in a bathroom last week, drunk guy was in the bar's bathroom with pants around his ankles trying to piss in the urinal from about 3 ft away.

It's a bit less common to see somebody nude in a bathroom than in a locker room, but it does happen.

nomotog wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

nomotog wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Not seeing the issue. Its actually the three bathroom rule.

I'm completely for it.

It doesn't mandate a third bathroom though. Right in subsection c of the first part. They don't have to build maintain of modify any room in order to have that third bathroom, so how are they going to provided a bathroom?

yes I looked at that as well as it contravened (aka you're right). Close off an existing bathroom.

Sorry we're talking teens and pre-teens here, not adults. We have separate locker rooms for a reason (because Grll bathrooms are frankly disgusting-don't believe me? Clean one some time)

I don't know how to fix the bathroom thing, or if it is even broken as it is now.

In the real world its a very statistically limited issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Well you did say you'd like them to say it in front of a former SEAL. While I think its funny too (I have this image of Church Chat lady beating up a politician with her purse-wow I just dated myself) violence doesn't work against bigotry.

If Chief Beck feels like she needs to punch someone's throat in, I'm sure it'll be justified. Like I said, I just want to see Team Rah Rah Support The Troops/Moral Majority Nutters brains seize up when coming face to face with a combat decorated spec ops veteran, who is also part of the group they're working to crucify this week.