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2015/03/10 05:34:02
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
I'm tempted to try out a mixed Chaos Daemon / CSM w/ a Plaguehulk or whatever with the relic on it. It's got such a huge base that the extensions pretty large. Plus the CSM Daemon Princes are great at summoning.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/03/10 06:17:44
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Oh something I feel is also worth noting for Daemon Facrtory tactics: When generating psychic powers, roll all of your Pink Horrors' powers first. All they get is the one roll on Malefic no matter what, so go ahead and start fishing for Cursed Earth, Possession, and Sacrifice with them that way you can choose whether or not you want to start farming Divination for some of its goodies with your Tz'eralds.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/11 06:08:44
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
astro_nomicon wrote: Oh something I feel is also worth noting for Daemon Facrtory tactics: When generating psychic powers, roll all of your Pink Horrors' powers first. All they get is the one roll on Malefic no matter what, so go ahead and start fishing for Cursed Earth, Possession, and Sacrifice with them that way you can choose whether or not you want to start farming Divination for some of its goodies with your Tz'eralds.
Good idea, I'll have to remember to do that.
4 powers for horrors + 12 powers for the heralds
1 in 6 odds of getting possesion with 16 attempts to do it, should net 2 on average.
Every time Portaglyph pops and you choose Pink Horrors, another power added to the mix
Any time you summon more Pink Horrors, another power added to the mix.
Any time you sacrifice and get another Tzeench Herald, more powers in the mix.
I can see how this escalates quickly. An opponent who sits in his deployment zoen and doesn't try to wipe you out quickly is in for a world of dissapointment.
I'm curious if any of you feel like there's a lower limit of Warp Charges that under which running a Daemon Factory is a futile endeavor.
Also, it seems to me that the Factory is almost better in slightly smaller games, where the points you are summoning to the board are a greater percentage of your opponents army. For instance if you summon 800 points of Daemons in an 1850 game, you summoned 43% more points to the board. If you summoned the same in a 1500 point game you summoned 53% more points to the board. Do you think that has an impact on the army's success rate or is not a very useful metric?
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/11 19:13:26
Subject: Re:I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Your summoning engine and direct offense are mostly seperate, so I imagine there is a point where you can't have enough of both on the board at the same time. Also, your ability to snag the right spells is contigent on you making lots of attempts at drawing them. You are trying to mitigate the randomness by having soo many attempts that you'll eventually succeed.
But I guess you can make lemonade out of lemons at any points level
4 Lvl 2 Heralds of Tzeench + 2 Units of 12 Pink Horrors clocks in at under 500 points, and should manage at worst to put another 90 point unit of Demontic Troops on the board each turn.
Whipped these up these counters to help keep track who has what spell.
I'm going to print them up at the local 1 Hour Photo
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 13:38:20
Thanks. I had originally made a black and white sheet with 70 tokens, but it just looked bland and white markers are a distraction on the battlefield. The color ones look cooler, and I've used photos for tokens before. Glue them to foam core and cut them out, and you have some pretty durable tokens., that stack.
I'm running a Tz/Nur summoning list in a tourney Saturday. I'll report back.
Defintely interested in hearing about the expereince. Looking forward to your update.
----------------------------
Do you guys just use the small blast marker as a Portaglyph, or do you use something more interesting ?
Thanks. I had originally made a black and white sheet with 70 tokens, but it just looked bland and white markers are a distraction on the battlefield. The color ones look cooler, and I've used photos for tokens before. Glue them to foam core and cut them out, and you have some pretty durable tokens., that stack.
I'm running a Tz/Nur summoning list in a tourney Saturday. I'll report back.
Defintely interested in hearing about the expereince. Looking forward to your update.
----------------------------
Do you guys just use the small blast marker as a Portaglyph, or do you use something more interesting ?
I use a pile of dead tac marines glued to a 60mm base that inherited when i bought a guys daemons off him wholesale lol. In a competitive environ though i'd prefer something dimensionless (in height anyway) but preferrably cool looking
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/13 00:06:47
Subject: Re:I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
I use a pile of dead tac marines glued to a 60mm base that inherited when i bought a guys daemons off him wholesale lol. In a competitive environ though i'd prefer something dimensionless (in height anyway) but preferrably cool looking
That sounds amusing.
This is probably more in line with the flatness you were looking for
Spoiler:
Also found a thread here on Dakka about Portaglyphs
I just cut a small blast marker sized circle out of black foam core for a quick portal. Flatter is easier to hide.
I'm trying Fate, GUO, TzPrince, NurPrince, 2x10 Horrors, 2x10 Plaguebearers, 4 Flamers. I wanted some bodies on the board for bubble wrap on my big guys and I love Flamers as a cheap utility unit. I can summon 20 Nettes, 20 Letters, Tons of Nurglings, 6 Crushers, and a Thirster. It's not fully optimized but it's fully painted and fun as hell. GUO carries the Grimoire, NurPrince throws the Portal... having Nurgle in the list gives it more resilience and hitting power (Balesword!). I'll let you know how it goes!
7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons 5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters
2015/03/13 18:41:48
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Yeah i hear you on the bubble wrap. Thats why i have a really hard time not putting hounds in the list. Ofc i could summon them but i really like having them on the board With their base sizes they make an excellent screen/bubblewrap and with scout they can force armies that wanna sit back and shoot to target them while i get my summoning rolling. Also took a nurgle prince in my list for a hard hitter and im considering swapping fatey for a LoC for the same reason
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/13 19:09:46
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Fateweaver is good, but I've done better with a great unclean one. It opens up heavy support for flying daemon princes of nurgle, and you've still got room for heralds and horrors.
At 1850, I'm running 26 warp charges. The list is totally dependent on the princes doing the bulk of the work, but at close to half the points, you kind of expect them to.
Probably won't run the inquisitor except at an event (or against my friend's white scars )
I've got a decent amount of units to summon (read: units to paint) but I'm actually really looking forward to it because I found some sweet color-shifting paint. Any recommendations for Fatey's wings? Probably going to do his clothes an off white
They're pretty survivable summoners, out of all of them they're the most survivable , give them 2 levels and a Palaquin their not going any where any time soon.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/03/18 02:42:56
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Cheap warp charge, more chances as cursed earth/possession. Summoning platforms are never a bad thing, especially when they have more than one purpose. Can also be a source of AP 2 for the dronestar if you need it. Most importantly, gives the unit FNP with the locus of fecundity
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also name me any other book that can cram 14 warp charge into their HQ section in only 2 selections. Ironically daemons could do 24 if they really wanted to max it out but Fatey is DEFINITELY worth the 10 pt drop, especially since he's shaper than 4 heralds. Heck he's cheaper than just 3 on discs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 02:46:02
2015/03/18 02:47:35
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
luke1705 wrote: Cheap warp charge, more chances as cursed earth/possession. Summoning platforms are never a bad thing, especially when they have more than one purpose. Can also be a source of AP 2 for the dronestar if you need it. Most importantly, gives the unit FNP with the locus of fecundity
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also name me any other book that can cram 14 warp charge into their HQ section in only 2 selections. Ironically daemons could do 24 if they really wanted to max it out but Fatey is DEFINITELY worth the 10 pt drop, especially since he's shaper than 4 heralds. Heck he's cheaper than just 3 on discs
You can't have more then 4 heralds in a single detachment
2015/03/18 06:09:52
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
luke1705 wrote: Cheap warp charge, more chances as cursed earth/possession. Summoning platforms are never a bad thing, especially when they have more than one purpose. Can also be a source of AP 2 for the dronestar if you need it. Most importantly, gives the unit FNP with the locus of fecundity
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also name me any other book that can cram 14 warp charge into their HQ section in only 2 selections. Ironically daemons could do 24 if they really wanted to max it out but Fatey is DEFINITELY worth the 10 pt drop, especially since he's shaper than 4 heralds. Heck he's cheaper than just 3 on discs
I feel like the Nurgle Heralds would be fishing for Endurance in this list and almost always taking a Greater Aetherblade for AP2.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/18 07:23:50
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
If you take sum form of Tzeentch heralds on jetbikes + screamers, why would'nt you ALWAYS take the blue scribes?
You cant go wrong with free 'Malific' powers!
2015/03/18 12:37:07
Subject: I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
shogun wrote: If you take sum form of Tzeentch heralds on jetbikes + screamers, why would'nt you ALWAYS take the blue scribes?
You cant go wrong with free 'Malific' powers!
Because you only have 2 HQ choices
I think eventually I'm going to have to run a dual CAD so I can field Fateweaver, Blue Scribes, and 8 Heralds.
Let the Blue Scribes go first and cast something from Maelific, and see if they burn any deny tthe witch. Even if they manage to deny the Blue Scribes, it didn't cost you any warp charges.
Try to hide it somewhere turn 1. Use it to summon pink horrors, for the extra Warp Charges and Maelific attempts at rolling possesion.
Any other tips or tricks for Portalglyphs other than that ?
Hmm I thought I read somewhere that a unit arriving from the portalglyph could assault the turn it arrived because "a new unit. . . of D6 Daemons . . . enters play from the Portalglyph, exactly as if it were a unit disembarking from a transport."
That would require the Portalglyph to be treated as an open topped vehicle, however, and I can't find anything that says it is. It's entry denotes it as an immobilized vehicle.
But other than that, yeah that seems to be the best way to use the portalglyph now.
Good looking 'glyph by the way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/19 18:12:07
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/03/20 00:06:23
Subject: Re:I got 99 problems and building a Daemon Factory is 1
Zagman wrote: Daemon Factory definitely is something to be concerned about, but before we have too much fear lets make sure we are getting their limitations down and don't let the Daemons player unknowing gain any extra advantage. I've seen quite a bit of talk and misinformation regarding some of these points. Lets get it right so we can accurately address the threat that Daemon Factory represents.
Perils: Make sure that if they are a non Daemon that they Perils on any double, not just 6's and not just on successful castings.
One Power Attempt Per Unit: Only one attempt at any one specific power per unit per turn. No double attempts at the same power from any unit without a special rule allowing it.
Warp Charges: Make sure the player is not adding any Warp Charges to their pool from the Summoned Daemons. Yes, they generate their powers the turn they arrive and are able to manifest any non Conjuration power the turn they arrive, but they arrive after Warp Charges are collected and do not contribute to this turns Warp Charge Pool. They contribute normally the turn after they are summoned.
Arrive Via Deepstrike: Summoned Daemons arrive via Deepstrike and must follow all relevant limitations. "is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes." They effectively have arrived from Reserves via Deep Strike and cannot Move in the Movement phase, and cannot charge in the Assault phase. They may run or shoot. This is very relevant for Summoned Flying Monstrous Creatures.
Objective Secured: Conjured units are Scoring unit, but summoned Horrors, Plaguebearers, Daemonettes, and Bloodletters are not Troops, they are conjured units and were not selected in a Troop FOC slot, and do not benefit from the Battleforged Objective Secured Special Rule. No permission is giving to assign a summoned unit to s FOC slot and therefore are a slot-less unit belonging to the Chaos Daemon's Faction.
Range of Summoning: Only Summoning and Incursion have a 12" range, measured from the Psycher. First model must be placed wholly within 12" and then scattered as normal. The range for Sacrifice and Possession is only 6". Note: If a unit suffers a DS mishap and goes into Ongoing Reserves it can be placed anywhere on the table when it arrives from Reserves in the following turns.
Cursed Earth only requires the first model be placed within 12" for No Scatter DS.
Solo Heralds: Heralds are summoned within 6". They cannot move and cannot join another unit the turn they arrive. They also cannot contribute to the Warp Charge pool the turn they arrive.
Summoned Bloodthirsters or Lords of Change: Bloodthirsters or Lords of Change are Flying Monsterous Creatures who have arrived from reserve via Deep Strike. FMCs who have arrived via Deepstrike are forced to be in Swooping mode and cannot change flight modes until the following turn as changing flight modes is performed at the start of its move, which it does not have. It has been forced to be declared as Swooping the turn it arrives. Therefore they cannot charge until two turns after they are summoned.
For example, a Bloodthirster is summoned Turn 2. It arrives in Swooping mode, cannot move or change Flight Modes turn 2. It can only run or shoot Turn 2. Turn 3 the Bloodthirster can change movement modes and begin Gliding. It can shoot or Run as normal. Turn 4 the Blood Thirster can Glide and charge.
One Eye Open Daemons still belond to the Codex Daemons Faction and if summoned by a Faction that is Comes the Apocalypse or Desperate Allies they are still subject to the One Eye Open rules laid out in Allies. Summoning and scatter may force this check at the beginning of the following turn.
Transports and Vehicles: Summoning from inside of a Transport or a Building is prohibited.
Possession, Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers, and ICs: When an IC or ICs are attached to a unit with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rules and Possession is cast, the entire unit is sacrificed, including any attached Independent Characters who "counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes."
7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons 
5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters 
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