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How about we make a checkpoint? Everyone could post their complete answers to the following Questons.
What should be done with the Psilencer? What should be done with the Psycannon? Should there be a new gun added?
If your proposal involves any new rules, please write them out in full.
Here’s my new suggestion.
Psilencer: 24", S4, AP4, Assault 3, Haywire, Poisoned (3+) Psycannon: 36", S7, AP3, Salvo 3/4, Rending No new gun being added
The Psycannon is the heavy hitter, but the Psilencer still fills the various rolls well, but as a less expensive option, allowing the extra points to be spent elsewhere.
Well, currently the Psilencer has only one thing it shoots at passably well, but it's unique and flavorful in that it's the only gun in the game with Force. Quite frankly, I think that we should keep Force for Psilencers- it's pretty cool, and opens up some options that really don't exist in other armies.
But it needs to be more than "kill multi-wound infantry". The easy way around that is to just give it S5 and Assault rather than Heavy. 6 shots at S5 are pretty dangerous for infantry, and can be effective when fired into vehicle rear armor. S5+Force is also not as bad as was previously assumed- in fact, S4+Shred outperforms it against everything except T6, in which case S5 is pulling ahead by ~0.03-0.07 unsaved wounds. Against T7, both S4 and S5 wound on 6+, but S4+Shred gets to re-roll, while S4 cannot harm T8, but S5 can- even if it's only on a 6+.
So, to that end, these are the profiles I recommend for the Psilencer and Gatling Psilencer:
Gatling Psilencer 24" Heavy 12 S5 AP- Force, Pinning
18" Heavy 4 SX AP2 Fleshbane
I've decided to add pinning as this provides it some additional utility when not activating Force- the RoF and S5 can combine nicely to provide an excellent source of Pinning shots, even with AP-. Also, these profiles are likely to not require any price hikes to the weapons, thus preventing the already expensive GKs from getting even more expensive.
The secondary profile, with a significantly reduced RoF is for anti-MC and anti-TEQ duty. By swapping Force for Fleshbane and adding AP2, while also cutting RoF and range, we can add a profile that can bring down both MCs (due to Fleshbane and AP2) and TEQ (due to mostly to AP2). A pair of Psilencers isn't quite as dangerous to TEQ (or MCs, for that matter), as say, Plasma Vets or triple Caliver Vanguard... but it's a lot more flexible and is on a unit that can kill gribbly beasties in combat quite well.
It's also, per-gun, cheaper. Especially in comparison to Plasma Calivers, which cost a huge 30 points per gun!
Oh boy, this is a big one. Quite frankly, I personally think that Psycannons have been broken ever since the 5th edition book showed up. Yeah, it's only two editions ago, but it was also such a huge change- and one that just came flying out of left field in a way that nobody could have predicted- that it just needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up. Here's what I propose:
Heavy Psycannon 24" Heavy 6 S6 AP3 Psi-Shock
24" Heavy 1 S6 AP3 Psi-Shock, Large Blast, Shred
18" Heavy 2 SX AP- Haywire
For those who are curious, Psi-Shock is just the same rule that's attached to thrown Psyk-Out Grenades as well as the One-Use profile of the Condemnor Boltgun. It's basically case of "auto-Perils for anybody who gets shot with it". The secondary profile of the Psycannon is a Haywire shot- it's a single 18" shot, but GKs are also a fantastic mid-range shooting army, and have a number of great options for getting into the midfield. Yes, even Rhinos can work- though you'll need plenty of armor saturation to really pull it off.
Also, a single 18" Haywire shot as the secondary profile helps to keep Psycannons from overshadowing those armies which are much more, "known" I suppose, for fielding Haywire weapons. The DE Haywire Blaster for example, is 24" Assault 1 S4 AP4 Haywire, while the Skitarii have the Arc Rifle, a 24" Rapid Fire S6 AP5 Haywire weapon. In some ways Psycannons are in fact better than both- you get anti-MEQ, some anti-MC/-light armor, some anti-psyker, and some anti-heavy armor, all in the same package. As such, I opted to bring the Haywire shot down a little.
These changes make the Psilencer an anti-fleshy thing gun, and the Psycannon an anti-psyker/-vehicle weapon... but not in the silly "I are better Psycannon because lawlreasons" type of way that Psycannons currently are.
I think that bringing in a new weapon to specifically cover the anti-MC/-vehicle role has a lot of benefits, but that we should perhaps focus on methods which don't require model changes, as they're a lot easier to playtest.
In the case of bringing in a new weapon, I think it's helpful to look at the kinds of guns other armies have at their disposal:
-short range anti-GEQ -short range anti-MEQ/-TEQ/-MC -short range anti-vehicle/-MC -long range anti-GEQ -long range anti-MEQ/-TEQ/-MC -long range anti-vehicle/-MC -long range anti-flyer
Currently, Incinerators operate in the "short-range anti-GEQ" role, Psilencers as a sort of "long-range anti-GEQ" role, along with taking over some anti-multi-wound duties, and Psycannons act as "anti-everything else". With the above proposals, Psilencers change to a sort of "mid range" anti-GEQ/-MC weapon, while Psycannons act as mid-range anti-MEQ/-MC/-vehicle weapons. Anti-TEQ is also covered by the secondary profile of the Psilencer. For truly "long range" firepower, GKs will have to rely on bringing Razorbacks and Rifleman Dreads... but in exchange they become a really dangerous mid-range shooting force with a very prickly counter-assault ability, and some great combat units (Purifiers, DKs).
1)What should be done with the Psilencer?
2)What should be done with the Psycannon?
3)Should there be a new gun added?
1) Nothing. I for one think that it is a good weapon as it currently is.
2) Become S6 Ap4 assault 2.
3) A new psychic power for a new unit.
8" witchfire WC3 S8 Ap2 Armourbane.
This power fires as many times as there are models in the unit with this power (so a 5 man squad will fire this power 5 times).
The new unit will be in Terminator armour and have the same access to special weapons and stuff like that as normal Terminators.
Maybe mastery level 2 for the unit.
SGTPozy wrote: 1) Nothing. I for one think that it is a good weapon as it currently is.
How are Psilencers okay? At the very least they need to change from Heavy to Assault, because it's literally the worst possible weapon you could give any of the PAGK squads.
So, I'm guessing that that would mean Psycannons also lose Rending? You realize that that's an incredibly heavy handed nerf to the weapon right? I mean, I realize that I advocate the removal of rending, and dropping it down to 3 shots and S6, but I also recommend going to AP3 and adding Psi-Shock, plus adding a secondary Haywire profile. Just dropping RoF in half, removing Rending and dropping it to S6 instead of 7, with nothing else to compensate is very heavy handed- do you just have some kind of raging hateboner against GKs?
This power fires as many times as there are models in the unit with this power (so a 5 man squad will fire this power 5 times).
The new unit will be in Terminator armour and have the same access to special weapons and stuff like that as normal Terminators.
Maybe mastery level 2 for the unit.
Even with TDA, an 8" mindbullet at a whopping WC3 is simply too little gain for far too much risk- in order to get into position, you have to DS... quite frankly I would never use such a unit. Against, say, Tau, it's IA bait. Against anything with an AV you're risking mishaps and fishing for 6s. Having the new unit use TDA also makes them expensive, and ML2 is going to be required just so you've got the WC to burn on this power... and that's assuming they even make it into range to fire it.
I don't think I've ever seen a worse set of suggestions to fix GKs- and I've heavily criticized some other ideas and even insulted them but this... this is a whole other level of horrible.
Psilencer: 36", S4/ap-/ Heavy 6, Force, Daemonbane.
- The gun itself has the look of a true heavy weapon, hence, I think it should stay Heavy. However, if it does, then it only seems fair to give it a range increase to compensate, so that PAGK's such as Strikes & Purgators can do a better job of becoming an area denial unit who can lay down lots of suppressing fire.
Daemonbane allows the gun to really become scary against the GK's natural foe.
Psycannon: 24", S7/ap4, Heavy 4, Psy-shock, Psybolt.
18", S7/ap4, Assault 3, Psy-shock, Psybolt, Cumbersome.
*Psybolt = any to-wound roll of a 6 counts as ap2.
*Cumbersom = any unit that makes a shooting attack and then assaults in the same turn counts as making a Disordered Charge
- No more Rending because frankly, it was among the stupidest things in the game back in 5th/6th that what is essentially a supped-up Heavy Bolter was better at killing av14 Land Raiders than a god damned Lascannon! Now it can still readily hull point light to medium vehicles to death quite well, but the heaviest stuff isn't hiding in absolute fear of the almighty 'Wardgun(tm)'
However, giving it a similar kind of 'Rending but not-really Rending' vs. non-vehicles gives the GK's some added weight against high save opponents, and makes the gun scarier to Monstrous Creatures.
As for the idea of Cumbersome, it gives PAGK's the ability to move and shoot at full BS, however, by not gaining charge bonuses, it should help keep the gun from going back to a sheer no-brainer across the entire army.
Psycannon?
20 points
I like the PC. I'd change nothing about it - except maybe change it back to assault or give strike squads scout/infiltrate.
Psilencer?
20 points
36" str5 ap - shred. Salvo 4/6
New weapon? Yes - a blast weapon - limited to purgs and paladins
Psyorb blaster
30 points
18" str special ap1 assault 1 blast, gets hot
special =
1 no effect
2-5 auto pen/wound
6 auto pen/wound no saves of any kind - if target is daemon it is removed from play.
Are the proposed weapons strong? Yes. Are they OP? No.
Psyorb blaster is just a shorter range gets hot D cannon that only distorts against daemons.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
For those who are curious, Psi-Shock is just ... "auto-Perils for anybody who gets shot with it".
I think that bringing in a new weapon to specifically cover the anti-MC/-vehicle role has a lot of benefits, but that we should perhaps focus on methods which don't require model changes, as they're a lot easier to playtest.
new gun: A new psychic power for a new unit. 8" witchfire WC3 S8 Ap2 Armourbane.
This power fires as many times as there are models in the unit with this power (so a 5 man squad will fire this power 5 times).
The new unit will be in Terminator armour and have the same access to special weapons and stuff like that as normal Terminators. Maybe mastery level 2 for the unit.
I can't even give odds for a 3 Warp Charge power due to the sheer number of potential outcomes just from the number of dice attempted, and those denied, and the chance of perils.
Psycannon: 24", S7/ap4, Heavy 4, Psy-shock, Psybolt. 18", S7/ap4, Assault 3, Psy-shock, Psybolt, Cumbersome. *Psybolt = any to-wound roll of a 6 counts as ap2. *Cumbersom = any unit that makes a shooting attack and then assaults in the same turn counts as making a Disordered Charge
Xenomancers wrote: Psycannon? 20 points I like the PC. I'd change nothing about it - except maybe change it back to assault or give strike squads scout/infiltrate.
Psilencer? 20 points 36" str5 ap - shred. Salvo 4/6
New weapon? Yes - a blast weapon - limited to purgs and paladins Psyorb blaster 30 points 18" str special ap1 assault 1 blast, gets hot
special = 1 no effect 2-5 auto pen/wound 6 auto pen/wound no saves of any kind - if target is daemon it is removed from play.
Psy-orb Blaster: 18" str special ap1 assault 1 blast, gets hot 1 no effect 2-5 auto pen/wound 6 auto pen/wound no saves of any kind - if target is daemon it is removed from play.[/b][spoiler] (Assuming 3 hits for Wound models up to T4, 1 hit for T5+ or AV)
My opinions on the various suggestions for Special Weapons.
I don’t believe that a special weapon statistically dealing less than 0.5 Wounds in a shooting phase under optimal circumstances is worth mentioning, as it will often not be under optimal circumstances, which effectively means it’s statistically not going to be doing anything most of the time. Similarly, an anti-vehicle weapon needs to statistically deal multiple Hull Points per turn, or deal at least 1 with a chance to explode the target to be useful to the Grey Knights.
We need weapons that consistently deal damage more than a weapon that will most likely do nothing, but if it does do something, might kill the enemy outright. My critiques are primarily focused on PAGK.
Spoiler:
Psilencer: 24”, S4, AP-, Heavy 6, Force The Current Psilencer has a heavy profile which means it fires at BS1 on the move, and the firing unit cannot assault after its use. Even if stationary, it will not statistically deal an unsaved Wound to a T4,2+, or T5,3+ enemy or better, and it can’t harm T8 or AV11 at all. What good is Force if it can’t Wound the enemies you need it to, when you need it to.
Psycannon: 24”, S7, AP4, Salvo 2/4, Rending The Current Psycannon has a Salvo profile that is less bad than the Heavy Profile the Psilencer has, but is still a liability to its unit. If Stationary, it has good odds up to T7,3+, or AV12, but drops below a 50% chance beyond that. However, if the firer moved, the range is cut down to a piddly 12” and halves the number of shots. So it is a weapon that if fired on the move, can only be fired within assault range, yet prevents the firing unit from being allowed to assault. As for its mobile effectiveness, it only retains better than a 50% chance of dealing an unsaved Wound against enemies with a 4+ save or AV10.
Both of these Special Weapons are liabilities without sufficient merit to be taken on any non-Relentless model.
Psilencer: 24", S4, AP4, Assault 3, Haywire, Poisoned (3+) Bill’s suggested Psilencer is an anti-vehicle gun that removes hull points instead of going for an Explodes! result. It deals 1.667 Hull Points per firing, but isn’t capable of getting an Explodes! result. It is capable of Wounding all enemies, but has the better than 50% odds against 4+ or weaker saves. As an assault Profile, there is no reason for a mobile unit such as Interceptors, or Deep Striking Strike Squads to take it, as the shooting potential does not prevent them from charging or moving, and the opportunity costs are just the points for the weapon, and one model’s AP3 in close combat.
Psycannon: 36", S7, AP3, Salvo 3/4, Rending Bill’s suggested Psycannon leaves it as Salvo, but increases the range to 36”, and the mobile profile to 3 shots, to ensure that it has a distinct role from the Psilencer. The Psycannon would become the weapon of choice for Purgation Squads sitting in cover on objectives, and giving them the range to be able to reach the enemy. For mobile units, the Psycannon would have an 18” range, shorter than their Storm Bolters, but long enough to be useful, while it is penalized 1 shot for moving, 3 shots has a much superior chance of dealing an unsaved Wound than two. And being as the weapon gives up a model’s close combat potential for shooting, and prevents the entire unit from assaulting, reliable shooting is a must.
Both of my proposed special weapons work in a Take-all-comers army. Both are capable of harming any type of enemy, though they have different statistical odds of doing so. One has an Assault Profile for mobile units, while the other is better suited for a Heavy-Support role with its increased range.
Psilencer (profile 1): 24" Assault 6 S5 AP- Force, Pinning Psilencer (profile 2): 18" Assault 2 SX AP2 Fleshbane Whiskey’s suggested Psilencer has a dual profile, and though I would prefer a single profile, this suggestion is likely the one that is most powerful against Wound models (dealing 1.111 Wounds against models without Invulnerable Saves), and its anti Vehicle power is negligible, which means it is extremely specialized. It does have Pinning, which is nice, but I’d have to see it in use before saying anything about how much of an effect it would have.
24" Assault 3 S6 AP3 Psi-Shock 18" Assault 1 SX AP- Haywire Whiskey’s suggested Psycannon is good against 3+ saves up to T7, though it only has a 22% chance of dealing a single unsaved Wound to T8,3+ that could possibly have Instant Death. The Haywire profile gives this weapon a 55% chance of taking a single hull point off of a vehicle, with no chance for an Explodes! result.
My issue with Whiskey’s suggestions is that it leaves no Special Weapon with a sufficiently good chance to harm Wraithknights, or Vehicles (The Psilencer either deals 0.222 Wounds with possible Instant Death, or 1.111 Wounds without any chance for Instant Death, while the Psycannon has no chance to explode any vehicles). That is a big problem to still have when both weapons have dual profiles, which should be able to fill any gaps.
Psilencer: (24", S4, AP-, Heavy 6, Force) Pozy says nothing’s wrong with the current Psilencer, so it shouldn’t be changed. I expressed my issues with the current Psilencer and feel no need to repeat them here.
Psycannon: (24", S6, AP4, Assault 2, Rending) Pozy didn’t explicitely say that his ideal Psycannon had Rending, so I tagged it on since he didn’t say he was removing it. Even so, this is by far the weakest suggestion for a Psycannon anyone has suggested. And it is still better than the Psilencer at literally everything, being as the Psilencer cannot statistically get the wounds it needs to Instant Death multi-Wound models.
8" witchfire WC3 S8 Ap2 Armourbane. Pozy. Warp Charge 3. Seriously? A pitiful 8” range isn’t bad enough, it has to be nearly impossible to cast? S8, AP2, Armourbane is great if it ever gets used, but this suggestion is far too costly and restrictive to be useful for the Grey Knights. Even firing as many times as there are models in the unit, it is too much of an all-or-nothing attack.
I completely disagree with the entirety of this suggestion.
Psilencer: 36", S4/ap-/ Heavy 6, Force, Daemonbane. Experiment’s Psilencer adds Daemonbane to the weapon profile. That lets it re-roll its slim chance to Wound against Daemons, but doesn’t help it against anything else. The 36” range would be nice if the price were reduced enough to warrant taking 4 of them on a Purgation Squad for a half decent chance of killing a single Monstrous Creature (though this suggestion still can’t harm a Wraithknight).
Psycannon (profile 1): 24", S7/ap4, Heavy 4, Psy-shock, Psybolt. Psycannon (profile 2): 18", S7/ap4, Assault 3, Psy-shock, Psybolt, Cumbersome. Experiment’s Psycannon has a dual profile, which I’ve made my opinion clear on. He kept the S7, AP4, as well as the heavy 4, which means it retains its effectiveness against Wound models when stationary. For the mobile profile he increased the number of shots to Assault 3, which I heartily approve of, as well as increasing the range from 12” to 18”. Causing Perils to Psykers is interesting, and I don’t know how much that would affect the game, being most armies don’t have many Psykers. Making a new rule that is like Rending but strips it of its usefulness against Vehicles I am staunchly against. This suggestion leaves the Psycannon as the only anti-vehicle Special Weapon, and makes it unable to reliably damage a Soulgrinder, and entirely unable to even glance AV14. This suggestion would make AV13+ the ultimate hard-counter to the Grey Knights.
If I were to make an alternative suggestion for this gun to a simpler profile that achieves the same effect (but not neutering its ability to harm AV14), it would be: 36”, S7, AP4, Salvo3/4, Psy-shock, Rending, + a special rule that allows the unit to assault after firing the weapon.
Psilencer: 20 points, 36" str5 ap - shred. Salvo 4/6 Xenomancer’s 36” Salvo is nice, and S5 gives it at least a tiny chance of Wounding a Wraithknight, and Shred helps to counter-balance AP-. But 20 points for dealing statistically between 0.5 and 1.3 unsaved Wounds is far too expensive, expecially when they’re also giving up their Nemesis force Swords, and the weapon cannot harm AV12. Psycannon: 20 points, change nothing about it - except maybe change it back to assault or give strike squads scout/infiltrate. Xenomancer’s suggestion gives the Psycannon a flat value, rather than giving the PAGK a 5pt discount for giving up their Nemesis Force Swords. Changing the profile back to an Assault 2, Heavy 4 would sufficiently make it viable for PAGK. But 20pts is much too expensive for the PAGK to pay, on top of losing their Nemesis Force Swords. The old 10 points from 5th Edition was fine.
Psyorb blaster: 30 points, 18" str special ap1 assault 1 blast, gets hot special = 1 no effect 2-5 auto pen/wound 6 auto pen/wound no saves of any kind - if target is daemon it is removed from play. Xenomancer’s new gun is interesting for how different it is from the other suggestions. Again, 30 points is far too expensive. A paladin with a Psyorb Blaster would be 85 points for a W2, T4, 2+,5++ model. I personally feel that blasts do not mesh well with the Grey Knights due to their need to get into close combat, and the tendency of Blasts to scatter, potentially killing their own unit if they are within Assault range. I also believe that “gets hot” is entirely unneeded, as the Grey Knights are already risking killing themselves every Psychic Phase, and they don’t need an expensive weapon that might kill the wielder on top of that.
If I could tweak the Psy-orb blaster profile, I’d make it a pistol without Get’s Hot, and make it available to Justicars and HQs. “Psyorb blaster: 18”, Sx, AP1, Pistol, Psyorb Psyorb: Instead of rolling to Wound or for Penetration as normal, roll a single dice. On a 1 there is no effect, on a 2-5 the enemy takes an AP1 Wound or Penetrating Hit, on a 6, the enemy takes an AP1 Wound or Penetrating Hit with no saving throws of any kind allowed. Additionally, if the target is a Daemon, and a 6 was rolled, the Daemon is removed from play”
I still like my suggestion the most, but if I were to chose someone else’s suggestion, I’d have to go with Xenomancer’s, provided the prices were brought down to something reasonable.
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2015/04/24 02:22:34
Rites of Teleportation (GK 94): should be a Special Rule for Grey Knight Strike Squads instead of a Command Benefit for the Nemesis Strike Force.
Psychic Brotherhood (GK83): should be a Command Benefit for the Nemesis Strike Force.
Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation (GK82): should be replaced entirely with a Purifier Formation (Crowe, 2-5 Squads of Purifiers), that grants the Command Benefits: Psychic Brotherhood, and Fiery Form from the Pyromancy Discipline (CR 196).
Grey Knight Chapter Tactics: These are the rules that apply across the Grey Knight Codex in the same way the Space Marine Chapter Tactics affect the chosen Chapter. If you think this is too much, compare them to the Iron Hands’ Chapter Tactics. This isn't really giving them anything new, just putting some of their rules into context for why the Grey Knights shouldn't be charged for them on their base unit costs. The Aegis Prefered Enemy (Daemons) Psyker Mastery Level 1, with Purity of Spirit
Daemonology (Sanctic): Replace the #4 power (Purge Soul) with a Blessing that improves the AP of shooting weapons by 1. This would not apply to psychic shooting attacks. 4. Psychic Infusion …………………..Warp Charge 1 The Grey Knights focus their psychic might through their blessed ammunition to increase its deadly potential. Psychic Infusion is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, the AP of weapons fired by the psyker's unit are improved by 1.
HQs I’d leave their options the same, but a few of their base prices are too high for what they’re capable of. 125pts- Brother-Captain: 150pts- Brother-Captain Stern: 100pts- Brotherhood Champion: 125pts- Castellan Crowe:
Troops: Strike Squad: Rites of Teleportation a special rule for Strike Squads, but also have it reduce scatter to 1D6.
Elites 100pts – Dreadnought: Add a new piece of Wargear that grants the Dreadnought the option to use Skyfire each shooting phase.
Paladins: At their current price, give them Sanctuary.
Heavy: Purgation Squad: replace Hammerhand Psychic power with the Psychic Infusion power
Dreadknight: Add an Iron Halo as an optional upgrade (20pts).
Promethium Reserve Tanks: as a new option for vehicles with flamer-type weapons that grants the weapons a 6” Torrent. The price could vary by vehicle based on effectiveness or be a per-weapon upgrade. This upgrade would be available to other codexes.
I also would like to add a new special rule that makes the Storm Bolters give Grey Knights an extra attack in close combat like a Pistol would. This would admittedly replace Falchions for the +1 attack. Instead, the Falchions would provide +1 Initiative like the Halberds did in the 5th Edition codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/22 15:52:31
Bill, you should re-run the numbers on the Fleshbane profile for my Psilencer proposal; it's actually going to put ~1.11 unsaved wounds on a Wraithknight every turn.
Keep in mind also that the Psycannon is the overall "general purpose" weapon; the Fleshbane/AP2 profile of the Psilencer is intended to combat high-T targets, and 2+ save models. The "primary" mode of the Psilencer having Pinning+S5 is to give it some utility as a general anti-infantry weapon.
Similarly, the Psycannon being S6 gives it some anti-light vehicle utility; GKs are also potentially the most capable army in terms of being able to get at rear-armor facings thanks to Interceptors+DKs.
In both cases the weapons have some more flexible usage- S6 is functional against T6 or less and can be put to use against AV10/11, and even 12 if you're either desperate or swimming in S6 shots. The Psilencer's S5+Pinning and high RoF give it a good chance to force a pinning check, and you can optionally activate Force to kill off multi-wound infantry.
Similarly, Psycannons get Psi-Shock to help combat some of the incredibly broken psychic shenanigans, by forcing auto-Perils on psykers that get shot with it.
Psycannons having a single-shot Haywire profile (shots per turn, mind, not shots per game) is to prevent it from overshadowing more specialized weapons, like the DE Haywire Blaster or Skitarii Arc Rifle, both of which are of lackluster utility outside of their inclusion of the Haywire trait.
Because Psycannons can pose a significant threat to 3+ armor models up to T5- and even some T6/3+ models- they need some drawback in using the Haywire profile.
Also, I disagree with the Promethium Reserve Tanks vehicle wargear. As this is, IMO, mainly pointed at LR Redeemers, I'd argue that it is a simpler option to allow a Redeemer to swap its Flamestorm cannons for Heavy Incinerators instead.
I also feel that rather than giving a blanket "count SBs as a CCW" rule, and then changing Falchions, it would be easier to either:
1) Give the Swords a defensive bonus, to actually differentiate them from the other NFWs 2) If such a rule is implemented, then Falchions should be changed to simply confer +1A as the Falchion-specific special rule.
To Clarify for any other readers, I'm not ignoring Whiskey's comment. I discussed it with him at length in PMs and we resigned ourselves to agree to disagree on most issues. That said, I did like some of his suggestions for the Grey Knights' melee weapons. Specifically:
Nemesis Force Sword: should bestow a 5++ in Close Combat to units without Invulnerable Saves, or +1 to the Invulnerable Saves in Close Combat for units that already have an Invulnerable Save. This only gets crazy with the Brotherhood Champion's re-rollable Invulnerable Save being buffed to 3++, but that wouldn't be game breaking.
Current Version with explanations
Spoiler:
Daemonology (Sanctic): The #4 power should be replaced with one that improves the shooting efficiency of the Psyker’s unit (does not affect Psychic shooting attacks). Purge Soul isn’t useful, and having a power that improves shooting, that Purgation Squads could start out with instead of Hammerhand could make them worth taking. Thus only the Purgation Squads and the occasional non-named HQ generating random Sanctic powers would have access to this shooting buff. 4. Psychic Infusion …………………..Warp Charge 1 The Grey Knights focus their psychic might through their blessed ammunition to increase its deadly potential. Psychic Infusion is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst the power is in effect, the AP of weapons fired by the psyker's unit are improved by 1.
Grey Knight Chapter Tactics: The Aegis Prefered Enemy (Daemons) Psyker Mastery Level 1, with Purity of Spirit These Special Rules apply across the Codex the same way the Space Marines’ Chapter Tactics do. The problem the Grey Knights face with this is that several of their units are charged around 25 points for their Chapter Tactics which should be free (Compare these to the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics if you think they’re too much).
Brother-Captain – 25 = 125 points
Brother-Captain Stern – 25 = 160 points
Dreadnought – 25 = 100 points
Brotherhood Champion – 50 = 100 points Stats & Equipment like the Brother-Captain (also charged for Chapter Tactics), But he suffers from reduced survivability (-1W), reduced shooting (-1BS, and no Special Weapon options), reduced Attacks (-1A), and all he gets back is special rules that only really matter in challenges (additional – 25 points).
Castellan Crowe – 50 = 125 points Most of the same problems as the Brotherhood Champion (still charged for Chapter Tactics), but he has WS8, I6, 3A, but NO AP for general close combatb] Whereas the Brotherhood Champion only shines in challenges, Crowe is only useful at all in Challenges. He’s better in those challenges than a Brotherhood Champion, but the expense of being useful anywhere else completely counter-balances that benefit (additional – 25 points)
[b]Strike Squads need Rites of Teleportation and reduced Deep Strike scatter to be part of their profile. Alpha-strike with Teleport Homers is the only role they could fill, yet they can’t currently do that with any sort of efficiency unless you take a NSF with the Strike Squads and put the Terminators in a CAD, and even then, having full scatter means it is easy for an opponent to deploy to deny the Deep Striking units useful placesto land.
Paladins at their current price need Sanctuary. They are far too expensive relative to their survivability. The plethora of Melta and Plasma in the meta means they often die just as quickly as the generic Terminators, which cost half as much. Sanctuary would help alleviate this problem.
Dreadnoughts need a special rule that allows them to fire at both fliers and ground targets with their full Ballistic Skill. The Grey Knights don’t have any deployable anti-air, and the Dreadnoughts don’t currently perform any function well relative to their cost. Making them anti-air would be perfect. I would also replace their Sanctuary Psychic power with my proposed “Psychic Infusion” power.
Purgation Squads would have my proposed “Psychic Infusion” power instead of Hammerhand. This compounded with fixing the Psilencer and Psycannon would make the Purgation Squads worth taking. As it is, they’re essentially Strike Squads without Deep Strike, being as their Special weapons aren’t worth taking in the current meta.
The Land Raider Redeemer needs some form of Torrent on its sponson weapons. This change would easily justify making its price equal to the other two. This could be achieved by replacing the Flamestorm Cannons with Heavy Incinerators, or by adding an optional upgrade that gives the Flamestorm Cannons some form of Torrent (my suggestion gave it a 6” Torrent). The main difference is that making it a Heavy Incinerator reduces them to AP4, while giving a version of Torrent to the Flamestorm Cannons leaves them at AP3.
All Land Raider Variants should gain the Venerable Special Rule.
[b]Skitarii should be incorporated into the Grey Knights Codex. All of this nonsense with "sub-Codexes" is crap. The Grey Knights and Mechanicus work closely enough to be in the same Codex, and the Scitarii fill the rolls the Grey Knights were deliberately left unable to fill.
Now the big points of contestation…
Special Weapons: The Incinerator is fine, but the Psilencer can’t statistically kill anything of note before it’s wielder is killed, and the Psycannon is a liability instead of a benefit on any unit that’s not Relentless. So my proposed weapons:
Incinerator: Template, S6, AP4, Assault 1, Soulblaze (No change)
Psilencer: 24", S4, AP4, Assault 3, Psychic Tear Psychic Tear: The raw psychic energies being focused through the Psilencer tear flesh and machine as it blasts pieces of them into oblivion. For each Hit a unit takes from this weapon, roll a D6. On a 1, nothing happens. On a 2-5, the unit suffers a single Wound/Glance. On a 6, the Target suffers a single Wound/Penetrating Hit
Psycannon: 36", S7, AP3, Salvo 3/4, Rending
The “Grey Knights Brotherhood” Formation is worthless. Taking it with no upgrades is 2045 points, which is far too big to be used, even if all of the units in it were useful. It would be infinitely better if it were replaced with a Detachment of Formations like the Necrons and Eldar currently have. Please remember with your responses that this is assuming that the other Codexes receive their own Fixes/updates before you make any claims of this being to just buff Grey Knights or being over-powered. (How this Detachment of Formations would work is a big enough topic for its own thread. But here's an idea anyway. Suggestions?)
Detachment Benefits: Brotherhood Commander (re-roll GK specific Warlord Traits table) The Units chosen for this Detachment may re-roll their Perils of the Warp results
Formation A: 1 Mandatory 1 Grandmaster (upgraded from a Brother-Captain) 1 Brother-Captain (may not be upgraded into a Grandmaster) 1 Brotherhood Champion. Benefit: +1 to their Invulnerable Saves.
