Switch Theme:

Scum fleets: what's worked for you dakka?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 David Clarke wrote:
I'm not sure that Boba Fett with Stay on Target/Navigator needs any of the other options. As his trick is often going to result in him losing his action I can't see any virtue in engine upgrade which is arguably the most useful modification, bombs are still questionable choices, missiles & torps need target locks that may not happen, cannons are expensive and limited to the forwards arc. On the Other hand a 44 PS8 Firespray which can go anywhere on its dial sounds pretty worthwhile to me and leaves a good number of points left over to fill out with smaller scum ships.



Yeah, that's one of the options I'm considering.

Inertial Dampers seems like a nice ace-in-the-hole, then up until I used it, I genuinely could perform any manoeuvre I needed. I'm also toying with a defensive upgrade, most likely Stealth Device.

I agree that, currently at least, there's not really any offensive upgrades that will provide a decent return on points, although I'm becoming a big fan of Proton Rockets in general, I'm not sure they add much here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/14 22:03:18


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Azreal13 wrote:
The topic is "what SnV has worked for you" not "tear apart other people's suggestions without offering anything of your own" which is pretty much all you ever do, increasingly, it seems to me, with second hand information you've plagiarised from elsewhere on the web rather than your own experience.


I could ask you the same question: do you ever get tired of complaining about how you don't like what I have to say? And I just have to laugh at your bizarre assumption that I'm just plagiarizing information from elsewhere. Obviously I've read the same math analysis as everyone else, but most of my opinions come from playing with ships, playing against them, or watching games with other people using them.

Put forward your own suggestions or clear off.


Sorry, I didn't realize you were a moderator and had the ability to decide that "scum are a disappointment" isn't a valid opinion here.

Constructive input (which excludes Peregrine I'm afraid) gratefully accepted.


And of course, why miss an opportunity to continue your little anti-Peregrine vendetta instead of just proposing ideas? It's funny how someone who gets so upset about seeing other people post negative comments is so eager to post zero-substance whining like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 David Clarke wrote:
bombs are still questionable choices


Strongly disagree with this. Bombs are incredibly useful, especially now that the firespray has a title card that lets you drop a bomb for damage and still have the threat of a future bomb to limit your opponent's movement options. The mere threat of a seismic charge is often enough to get an opponent to fly around it and do everything they can to avoid that damage. Very few 2-point upgrades give you that kind of control, so unless you're doing something really amazing with those points I'd suggest taking at least 1-2 seismic charges on every firespray.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/15 00:05:00


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Peregrine wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
The topic is "what SnV has worked for you" not "tear apart other people's suggestions without offering anything of your own" which is pretty much all you ever do, increasingly, it seems to me, with second hand information you've plagiarised from elsewhere on the web rather than your own experience.


I could ask you the same question: do you ever get tired of complaining about how you don't like what I have to say? And I just have to laugh at your bizarre assumption that I'm just plagiarizing information from elsewhere. Obviously I've read the same math analysis as everyone else, but most of my opinions come from playing with ships, playing against them, or watching games with other people using them.


I'm not complaining about what you say, as much as the relentlessly aggressive way you choose to express it. It is of course, completely feasible that your opinions and those other people blogged about sometime in the 48 hours before you had them is coincidence, but just remember other people read stuff on the Internet too. I still remember you relentlessly slating Maelstrom in 40K despite never having played a game, which would have been fine in and of itself, if you hadn't jumped down the throat of those who had and said that they liked them.

To answer your question, no, while you continue to post in the manner you do I will not get tired of pulling you up on it.


Put forward your own suggestions or clear off.


Sorry, I didn't realize you were a moderator and had the ability to decide that "scum are a disappointment" isn't a valid opinion here.


I don't have to be a moderator to ask you to stick to one of the main rules of this site (stay on topic,) I would just need to be one to enforce it. The title isn't "what do you think of SnV?" it is "what's worked for you" so in that context "scum are a disappointment" isn't responding to the original premise. If that's how you feel, then perhaps you shouldn't have posted in a thread asking for suggestions on what people had found good?



Constructive input (which excludes Peregrine I'm afraid) gratefully accepted.


And of course, why miss an opportunity to continue your little anti-Peregrine vendetta instead of just proposing ideas? It's funny how someone who gets so upset about seeing other people post negative comments is so eager to post zero-substance whining like that.



You'll notice that my final paragraph in the post you've so meticulously dissected to respond to point by point, was, in actual fact, the very thing you're accusing me of not doing, in fact, somebody responded to that and I replied to their response.

I have no issue with negative comments, I have an issue with unconstructive comments, and if that's making you feel like I have some vendetta against you, maybe that could tell you something about the content of what you choose to post?

EDIT
I won't be responding further on the matter, as I know you essentially log on to fight with people and I won't enable you, just so you know before wasting time on some lengthy response.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/15 00:31:45


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Andy Hoare




Norwich,England

Let me clarify a bit on the bomb's issue. Bomb's suffer from two big problems, firstly they have the ordnance issue where you are investing a portion of your points in a one use effect and secondly versus just about any ship with a good dial and barrel roll/boost they won't hit a thing. High Pilot Skill for the bomb carrier helps mitigate the second problem but it doesn't make bomb's a good option, just as it doesn't make torpedoes or missiles a good choice. If someone has a high concept list based around ordnance then more power to them, but I think we are kidding ourselves if anyone thinks it's good general advice to load up on bombs.

I even agree about the control effect's that having bombs equipped gives a player, but with the caveat that players who rarely see bombs may become quite intimidated by undodgeable area of effect damage. Meanwhile players who've flown against bombs before will just suck it up as part of the price of getting into the best position and the best you can hope for is they end up in a slightly loser formation.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Azreal13 wrote:
It is of course, completely feasible that your opinions and those other people blogged about sometime in the 48 hours before you had them is coincidence, but just remember other people read stuff on the Internet too.


I really have no idea what you're talking about. Which person that blogged about "starvipers suck" do you think I'm quoting? I honestly can't remember reading any such post, and my opinions are based on a combination of my own analysis of the ship and watching/playing offline games involving it and talking about it offline with those players.

The title isn't "what do you think of SnV?" it is "what's worked for you" so in that context "scum are a disappointment" isn't responding to the original premise.


Sorry, but "not much" is a valid answer to "what has worked for you". And I will continue to criticize ideas that I disagree with, regardless of your bizarre need to enforce some kind of "positive comments only" policy in a thread that you didn't create or even post in until you decided to continue your anti-Peregrine vendetta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 David Clarke wrote:
firstly they have the ordnance issue where you are investing a portion of your points in a one use effect


This isn't a huge problem for two reasons:

1) The cost is a lot less. A seismic charge is only 2 points, compared to at least 4 points for a decent missile/torpedo.

2) It's not a one-use effect. The damage a bomb causes is only a small part of its value. The real benefit it gives you is controlling where your opponent can maneuver. If you have a seismic charge on even a PS 2 y-wing or TIE bomber your opponent will very often set up their maneuvers to avoid the spot where your bomb will land just in case you decide to drop it that turn. Even if you don't drop it you've still forced them to make a choice they might not be happy with, and you still have your bomb to force that choice next turn.

and secondly versus just about any ship with a good dial and barrel roll/boost they won't hit a thing.


But maneuver control is still valuable. So what if Fel or Whisper can dodge the bomb at PS 9, that's why you make sure that you set up your ships in a position were dodging the bomb means landing in the arc of at least one of your ships, and having to spend actions on maneuvering instead of defense against that ship.

And of course if you're really worried about missing your target you can always take proximity mines and drop them on top of your target before they can move. An unavoidable three dice worth of damage to Fel/Whisper/etc is pretty nice.

Meanwhile players who've flown against bombs before will just suck it up as part of the price of getting into the best position and the best you can hope for is they end up in a slightly loser formation.


Ok, and now you've paid 2 points for at least one unavoidable damage, potentially more. That's still a good deal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/15 00:40:59


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator





Florida, USA

Well, the only thing I have considered is a C & D IG-88 combo for the hard turn loop after a boost option... but then again all I can think of is how many other ships have an 8+ PS which makes all the shenanigans in the world pretty meaningless. At best I'm getting to a PS of 8 and then I'm losing out on my elite slot for pushing my PS to only a moderate level, still not top. So I'm losing a point and an upgrade slot.

I agree with Peregrine on the pilot abilities for the Starvipers... Guri's pilot ability is so much better on a higher PS... it's crazy that she has that skill with such low PS. Even with VI she falls into the same problem with Aggressors. Really is a shame though, the Starviper is a really cool ship, and I'd like to think of a way to use it.

Honestly nothing in scum intrigued me more then the Elite Talent on the Mandalorian Mercenary. PS 5 with an elite slot could see an interesting combo with Boba, but meh... In all honesty nothing from scum makes me want to abandon my Decimator / Defender combo... I struggle to leave my Defender off the table...

You don't see da eyes of da Daemon, till him come callin'
- King Willy - Predator 2 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 David Clarke wrote:
Let me clarify a bit on the bomb's issue. Bomb's suffer from two big problems, firstly they have the ordnance issue where you are investing a portion of your points in a one use effect and secondly versus just about any ship with a good dial and barrel roll/boost they won't hit a thing. High Pilot Skill for the bomb carrier helps mitigate the second problem but it doesn't make bomb's a good option, just as it doesn't make torpedoes or missiles a good choice. If someone has a high concept list based around ordnance then more power to them, but I think we are kidding ourselves if anyone thinks it's good general advice to load up on bombs.

I even agree about the control effect's that having bombs equipped gives a player, but with the caveat that players who rarely see bombs may become quite intimidated by undodgeable area of effect damage. Meanwhile players who've flown against bombs before will just suck it up as part of the price of getting into the best position and the best you can hope for is they end up in a slightly loser formation.


I'm inclined to agree.

The first time I encountered a ship packing bombs I was waay too cautious with it, nowadays, as you say, I just accept it as a consequence of being where I want to be. Assuming I encounter anyone running them of course, which is relatively rare in itself.

I would also add a further point to your list of issues, which is that in order to be reliable, they need to be on high PS pilots. The issue I've found when considering bombs is that a) high PS pilots are already expensive and b) you normally want to spend points on upgrades which either enhance the survivability or efficacy of your already pricey pilot, so justifying more points on an upgrade which may or may not be any good is difficult.

For instance, I decided to run Azzameen (sp?) this week in a friendly game, and loaded a couple of Proton bombs on for fun. My opponent decided to bring an equally silly list consisting of precisely two ships, both of which had a higher PS. 10 points wasted. Had he run a low PS swarm, I'd have been laughing, but unless you know what you'll be facing, bombs will always be a bit of a gamble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Matt1785 wrote:

Honestly nothing in scum intrigued me more then the Elite Talent on the Mandalorian Mercenary. PS 5 with an elite slot could see an interesting combo with Boba, but meh... In all honesty nothing from scum makes me want to abandon my Decimator / Defender combo... I struggle to leave my Defender off the table...


Now, see, the Defender is one of the few ships I don't own yet, but, after the first occasion where the white K turn gave me a headache, I have little difficulty blowing them away because their dial is relatively limited.

How do you run it? My instinct says they need engine upgrade to be sufficiently slippery, and none of the guys I've played using them have equipped them.

I'm working on the Bob I've already mentioned, and, initially, I'm going to pair it with the IG2000, but I've only played one proper game with Scum so far, so I'm still auditioning ships, rather than entire coherent lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/15 01:08:10


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Azreal13 wrote:
For instance, I decided to run Azzameen (sp?) this week in a friendly game, and loaded a couple of Proton bombs on for fun.


Well there's your problem. Proton bombs are weak because they're so expensive. Against higher-PS ships you're essentially paying an extra three points for the same area denial effect of a seismic charge, so it's easy for them to be wasted points. Instead either use seismic charges (cheap area denial and occasional damage) or proximity mines (negate defense dice). And IMO proximity mines are really nice with the bomb firespray. Remember that if you drop a proximity mine on top of a ship it immediately explodes before that ship can move away. You don't have to predict where Whisper/Fel/etc is going to end their maneuvering, you just have to set up your own maneuver to drop the bomb on the place they ended at last turn. And with the 3-length templates to drop your proximity mines it's very hard to hide from them.


PS: I'm still waiting for a link to that author you accused me of plagiarizing. Or are you going to admit you were wrong and apologize?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/15 01:19:09


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Now, see, that's a constructive post, ignoring the last little remark, you can do it, and thank you.

I won't be linking to any authors because it's a waste of everyone's time. I point to a blog that discusses something you've talked about in your posts, and you deny it, assuming you've not been dumb enough to lift it word for word, we have a your word against mine situation that nobody can win.

Just know that speaking from experience and sharing those is infinitely more useful to a discussion than acting less like a Peregrine and more like a Macaw.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator





Florida, USA

The last list I ran was..

Rexler Brath:
Veteran Instincts
Heavy Laser Canon

Chiraneau:
Veteran Instincts
Jerjerrod
Fleet Officer
Vader

Ended up finishing 2nd overall. I love the Defender DESPITE the fact it is fairly bad (Really high price for that White K everyone reads a mile away). I have been dabbling with Scum lists... I just haven't been convinced to drop my list yet... although that list will change for the next tournament... slightly I'd imagine.

PS 10 helps me avoid the necessity for boosting, I move last, and while my opponent can block me... I tend to give a wider berth when I have the HLC.

I am still dabbling with Scum.. have been thinking of a Scyk / Fett build that could be interesting... but I haven't fine tuned it yet.

You don't see da eyes of da Daemon, till him come callin'
- King Willy - Predator 2 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





killeen TX

I agree that the defender is high priced, However having a stat-line of all 3s isn't too bad. I enjoy running him with the Engine upgrade. The 4k-turn that everyone sees coming then boost is just fun to me.

javascript:emoticon(''); 3,000 pointsjavascript:emoticon('');

2,000 points

265 point detachment

Imperial Knight detachment: 375

Iron Hands: 1,850

where ever you go, there you are 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Ran a S&V list for my first ever store tournament and came 6 out of 26 with 2w & 1L and the loss on points.

I threw the list together with minimal planning and while I would not run the exact list again, I would certainly consider using any of the ships in other lists.

So I ran Kath Scarlett w/ PTL,Engine Upgrade,Security Droid.
Kavil w/ PTL,Engine Upgrade,Autoblaster Turret,Unhinged Astromech.
BlackSun Soldier w/ hotshot blaster, Munitions failsafe.

1st games was against an in experienced player with Whisper,Echo and a Tie Defender.
Kavil was a monster in this match dispatching whisper due to being able to ignore defence dice.
Echo found himself at range 1 in Kath's rear arc uncloaked and got vaporised with a 6 die 6 dmg roll.
Leaving the defender to get focused down by everything.

2nd game was against a solid regional player but running a 2 Aggressor b-d list as a test for the next regional.

Kavil stripped the shields of an aggressor but got focused down.
I stripped the shields off the other aggressor with the hot shot blaster and Kath but things were looking grim, when he misjudged and ended up landing the B on an astroid. This caused him to take 1 dmg and left him at range 1 in kaths rear arc, resulting in a dead aggressor this put me about 10pts in the lead. we chased each other for a few turns and time got called, we played the last round and I got another 6 die 6 dmg shot off, but he burned his tokens and defended 4, I shot with the z95 for 2 hits and he fluffed his defense rolls getting 0 and lost the other Aggresor.

Last round was against a 2 time regional winner running
Leebo w/ Mangler Cannon,Determination and somthing else (apparently it's a normal loadout with the HLC swapped for the mangler)
y-wing Gold sq pilot w/ Ion Turret
Y- wing Dutch w/ Ion Turret

This match was basically like fighting the borg in attack wing in that it was like the opposite of fun.

I killed the gold sq pilot and he killed keevil.
Leebo basically would not die and for reasons I am still not entirely sure of he was after various modifications rolling 3 hist with every shot with him .

However nothing else died so I lost on points.

Overall Kath is a monster I will be using her again.

Kavil is makes the autoblaster-turret a real option and with the unhinged mech and engine can actually chase phantoms/slippery buggers down.

The BlackSun Soldier with hotshot blaster is a perfect low point build, you can use him as a blocker and then shoot something else with the turret.

The main thing i have taken away is that S&V are solid but so far lack some of the cheesefest builds imps/rebs have due to synergy. Hopefully this will change once they get some more ships.

I should also say I am by no means a great player and there was some very good players there on the nite, as this venue holds our local regional's. So overall I think S&V have the potential to be very good.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






SeanDrake wrote:
Kavil is makes the autoblaster-turret a real option and with the unhinged mech and engine can actually chase phantoms/slippery buggers down.


I think if you're going to do this you really need VI to at least tie with the phantom's PS. At PS 7 it's way too easy for a phantom or similar ship to get outside the range-1 bubble. Remember that a decloak move covers a range increment worth of distance, on top of the phantom's maneuver and possible barrel roll. So even if you land right on top of the phantom it can usually move away and out of autoblaster range. IMO this kind of makes the ion turret a better option since a 4-dice shot is almost as good as ignoring defense dice and an ionized phantom/interceptor/etc is probably dead next turn since it can't maneuver away. And the range-2 bubble is much harder to avoid entirely.

The main thing i have taken away is that S&V are solid but so far lack some of the cheesefest builds imps/rebs have due to synergy. Hopefully this will change once they get some more ships.


I don't think this is really true. Scum have their share of good ships and builds, they just suffer from poor distribution of their power. Their unique ships are mediocre at best, while their good ships are all copies of existing rebel or imperial stuff. For example, a scum firespray with z-95 escorts is probably a good list, but is it really better than an imperial firespray with a Howlrunner mini-swarm? And then it's easy to look at all the other options the non-scum faction has to go with that "core" of your list and feel like scum is just a weaker version of the existing factions. But I think once you accept that you're limited to the scum variants of rebel/imperial ships you can find some good "cheese" to win with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azreal13 wrote:
I won't be linking to any authors because it's a waste of everyone's time. I point to a blog that discusses something you've talked about in your posts, and you deny it, assuming you've not been dumb enough to lift it word for word, we have a your word against mine situation that nobody can win.


And yet somehow this "your word against mine" situation that "nobody can win" didn't stop you from posting the accusation in the first place. Nice job destroying all respect I might have ever had for you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/15 23:58:55


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Hampton Roads, VA

What has worked for me?

While I have some themed lists I want to run, a Kath themed list, a Black Sun themed list, and an Emon Azzameen with a full load of bombs for the lolz list , I have not had the chance to do it yet, I have played around with the M3-A a bit.

My list was

Serissu with swarm tactics

Palob with VI, Ion Cannon Turret and outlaw tech

N'Dru Sulhak with Lone Wolf

2 cartel spacers

For 97 points.

Overall I like, while the dial is not as good as my beloved A wing they still get around and with Serissu at range one they can be hard to kill when they focus and get that reroll. The lack of firepower while a little sad is not the end of the world.

Palob has been fun, especially when he makes my opponents do an action that he can not steal and it hurts their offense or defense. I still need to figure out what I want to give him crew wise and EPT wise however I liked VI and outlaw tech, but I am want to play around with it and give him the crow title.

I also tried out Torkil with the same basic setup minus VI, getting high level pilots to skill 0 was fun to do.

Finally N'Dru. Poor guy ethier I left him to alone and he got isolated and killed or he was in the mix of things and never got to befit from his abilities. I do not think this was the right list for him, so I want to try Kaa next so he can benfit from Palob.

Final thoughts M3-As are fun to fly and Serissu is definitely a good pilot, I have yet to fly against cluster missiles so i will deal with that when I get to it. Both Torkil and Pabol are annoying ships and need that mini swarm to help bring the heat off of them. And N'Dru I need to learn how to fly him better and get him in a list with less ships, to me at least it seems hard to get the range 2 buffer with him.

These are my experiences at any rate.

"Hi, I'am Cthulu. I tried to call, but I kept getting your stupid answering machine."
Love's Eldritch Ichor

Blood is best stirred before battle, and nothing does that better than the bagpipes.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thug Life.
100 pts.
5x Syndicate Thug + AutoBlaster Turret.
Its not for the timid. If you don't charge in and pin your target down you will get focused down with your 1 evade.
It works well against high Agility guys (Interceptors with Auto-Thrusters, E-Wings, Phantoms) since those ships have few damage points. 3-4 blaster turrets "should" take care of that pest (though in an event last night I had 2 rounds of shooting with 3 turrets (12 shots total) and did zero damage on wedge (I rolled 11 blanks and 1 Focus...which Wes Jansen had just stripped off that ship).
But when you dice go cold for the day, it is irrelevant what your flying.
Against low Agility Targets (Falcons, B-Wings, Decimators) your 3 dice from the main gun can quickly strip tokens and shields so the Crits can start to add up.
This list was especially effective against the 2 ship power build (58 Dash+Corran, Dual Falcon, Dual IG88, etc) Since you have the meat (40 points of damage) to stay alive until you can kill off the sniper ship, then turn around and start mauling the big ship.
Swarms have fallen quickly, being able to kill the linchpin (Howlrunner) without him even touching a green dice (again, you have to get to him and pin him at R1). Then bumpstop the swarm so it gets broken up...half the swarm just behind your Ys (but still in R1 of the rear ships) and the other half bumped against your front line ships (where your turrets can crossfire on the ships they are not touching...again, denying
those TIEs of their 3 Green dice).
Variations that have had success include either 2 or 3 ships having the BTL Title (turrets up front bump the enemy and pin him, crossfiring on other ships, while the BTLs in the rear dump shots on the primary) and a 4 ship list with Kavil and 3 Hired Guns all with Unhinged Mech (leaving a few points to give Kavil a Hull or something).
It is quite a site looking at your opponent when you get in a K-Turn joust and your opponent expects the Y-Wing to move up slow, clearing stress, and instead you charge right back in with a 3-something...clearing stress.

That, and 5 Y-Wings just look intimidating as h3ll as your opponent tries to figure out how he's going to work through 40 points of Damage.
The weakness...if your opponent slow-plays (or takes whatever maximum time limit he is allowed setting dials and moving ships). While your assured up to 2 damage per ship per turn, you're not going to max out. It may take you 2-3 turns to kill the sniper (Corran, Soontir, Phantoms, etc) with the big ship snipping out a Y in 3-4 turns of shooting. After that you need another 2 turns to pin down the big ship and 3 more to get enough damage on him to kill him. Slow-playing kills too much clock-time.
The other weakness is dice. But that's pretty much the same for every squad. If their cold, all you can do is laugh and enjoy the absurdity of life.

The Fat Han + 3 Zs is probably the worst list to face. If you go after Han, between him and the Zs you WILL loose 3 Ys. You killed 50-some points and he killed 60. You lose. If you go after the Zs he kills 2 Y and your at 39-40 points. You lose by 1.
Waiting to playtest the BTL mixes against this setup.

So, here you go X-Wingers. Call out the Rebels as the efite whiners you know them to be. Give the Empire the bird as you seek out riches and fame in the Outer Rim.
It's a THUG LIFE!!!
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






KellyJ wrote:
Call out the Rebels as the efite whiners you know them to be.


Or just take 5x gold squadron y-wings with autoblaster turrets and have the exact same list.

/troll

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Peregrine wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Kavil is makes the autoblaster-turret a real option and with the unhinged mech and engine can actually chase phantoms/slippery buggers down.


I think if you're going to do this you really need VI to at least tie with the phantom's PS. At PS 7 it's way too easy for a phantom or similar ship to get outside the range-1 bubble. Remember that a decloak move covers a range increment worth of distance, on top of the phantom's maneuver and possible barrel roll. So even if you land right on top of the phantom it can usually move away and out of autoblaster range. IMO this kind of makes the ion turret a better option since a 4-dice shot is almost as good as ignoring defense dice and an ionized phantom/interceptor/etc is probably dead next turn since it can't maneuver away. And the range-2 bubble is much harder to avoid entirely.


Kavil is already ps7 which ties him with a base level whisper and puts him 1 ahead of echo it worked out ok so far, while it is only temporary i'm sure people really have a hard time getting used to an agile y-wing with set of green 3 manuvers.

On reflection I really want to try a 2 firespray scum list with Kath and Azzerman somthing like this

100 points

Pilots
------

Kath Scarlet (48)
Firespray-31 (38), Stay on Target (2), K4 Security Droid (3), Inertial Dampeners (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

Emon Azzameen (52)
Firespray-31 (36), Proximity Mines (3), Recon Specialist (3), Andrasta (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Proximity Mines (3), Proximity Mines (3)

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

SeanDrake wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Kavil is makes the autoblaster-turret a real option and with the unhinged mech and engine can actually chase phantoms/slippery buggers down.


I think if you're going to do this you really need VI to at least tie with the phantom's PS. At PS 7 it's way too easy for a phantom or similar ship to get outside the range-1 bubble. Remember that a decloak move covers a range increment worth of distance, on top of the phantom's maneuver and possible barrel roll. So even if you land right on top of the phantom it can usually move away and out of autoblaster range. IMO this kind of makes the ion turret a better option since a 4-dice shot is almost as good as ignoring defense dice and an ionized phantom/interceptor/etc is probably dead next turn since it can't maneuver away. And the range-2 bubble is much harder to avoid entirely.


Kavil is already ps7 which ties him with a base level whisper and puts him 1 ahead of echo it worked out ok so far, while it is only temporary i'm sure people really have a hard time getting used to an agile y-wing with set of green 3 manuvers.

On reflection I really want to try a 2 firespray scum list with Kath and Azzerman somthing like this

100 points

Pilots
------

Kath Scarlet (48)
Firespray-31 (38), Stay on Target (2), K4 Security Droid (3), Inertial Dampeners (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

Emon Azzameen (52)
Firespray-31 (36), Proximity Mines (3), Recon Specialist (3), Andrasta (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Proximity Mines (3), Proximity Mines (3)


Because no-one ever takes Veteran instincts on a Phantom [/sarcasm]

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Peregrine wrote:
KellyJ wrote:
Call out the Rebels as the efite whiners you know them to be.


Or just take 5x gold squadron y-wings with autoblaster turrets and have the exact same list.

/troll


Some one needs a "Sense of Humor" upgrade card. They are zero points afterall.
Yes, the Thug Life can be mirrored with Rebel Y-Wings, though in the 4 ship variations the R2s give green to 1 and 2s while Unhinged gives it to 3s (which is a much better adjustment to the Y dial, IMHO). Kavil has EPT while Salm and Vander don't, though Vander's free TL to another ship can be most useful.
The key component though is the Auto Blaster Turret, which is S&V.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Because no-one ever takes Veteran instincts on a Phantom [/sarcasm]


Exactly. VI is almost mandatory on Whisper/Echo. They aren't PS 6/7, they're PS 8/9 with no EPT slot. If you're counting on PS 7 being enough to beat them then you're making a huge mistake.

KellyJ wrote:
Some one needs a "Sense of Humor" upgrade card. They are zero points afterall.


...

You do realize that was a joke, right?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Nope. Most net joking has (jk) or some such.
Apologies if I offended.
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





The Midwest

Hey Peregrine, this isn't a call-out, but I'm genuinely interested to hear what your thoughts are for an optimized/competitive Scum list.
You mentioned earlier that the faction has it's share of good ships and builds, so what are they?
Thanks!




 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Scotland

I've been enjoying 4 BTL Y Wings with Ion and the Agromech. Not saying it's good mind. :-P
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Fun > Good, all day every day.

Except maybe tournaments with good prizes.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Take a look at the Starviper, and here's the thing: I think that it's a bad ship compared to the Normal E-wing. Both of them have PS1, Firepower 3, Agility 3, and 5 Total Hit Points. Both have Focus, Target Lock and Barrel Roll.

The differences:

Generic E-wings cost 2 points more. Edge: Starviper

E-wing is much more durable, splitting its HP to favor shields, and having the evade action. While it is more vulnerable to proton bombs, it is less vulnerable to crits, and is capable of boosting its defenses with evade. Starviper puts it's HP in hull, leaving it more susceptible to crits.

E-wing has more options, with sensors and astromechs. Character Starvipers can take the Virago title to gain more options, but then only cost one point less. Edge: E-wing or Draw.

The E-wing has two K-turn options, hard-3's, and a 5-speed maneuver. The Starviper has Seignors loop, hard-1's, and the boost action. So, total number of maneuvers is a Draw, as is number of green maneuvers. However, if the starviper decides to boost, it takes the edge in terms of speed and maneuverability- at the expense of the E-wing gaining an edge in terms of firepower.

So in summary:
Starviper: Edges in cost, Speed.
E-Wing: Edges in Durability, Options, and Firepower.

Keeping in mind that the Generic E-wing is not considered a good ship.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 House Griffith wrote:
Hey Peregrine, this isn't a call-out, but I'm genuinely interested to hear what your thoughts are for an optimized/competitive Scum list.
You mentioned earlier that the faction has it's share of good ships and builds, so what are they?


I'm not sure about final lists yet, but I'm coming to some conclusions about which ships will be good enough to be pieces of those lists. In order from most useful to least:

Y-wing: "warthogs" with R4s are amazing, both named pilots are at least decent, and the 20-point thug with an autoblaster turret nicely fills the "mid-price ship" hole where you can't buy a high-end ship but don't want to over-invest in a z-95. I'm still unsure about bombs, seismic charges or proximity mines are good options, but it seems like most of the time I run out of points and can't afford them.

Firespray: it's the same ship we know and love, but with (IMO) better pilots than the imperial version. I think all four pilots have the potential to be useful, depending your preferences, but such an expensive ship does put some major constraints on the rest of your list. I think firespray with meatshield escorts (either feedback z-95s or "warthog" y-wings) is going to be a good list, I'm less convinced about the dual firespray option.

Z-95: again, same ship we know and love. Not much to get excited about, but it has good math and drops neatly into pretty much any list that needs some cheap meatshields. Feedback arrays are an interesting option to make the z-95 a much bigger threat against targets it usually struggles to hurt, and N'dru Suhlak is a really efficient flanker. But overall the z-95 is probably going to fall into the "meatshield that supports my more important ships" or "I have 12-15 points left" roles it has in rebel lists rather than being something you build your list around.

HWK: honestly, I'm not sold on the HWK yet. It looks good on paper, but every time I try to put one into a list I feel like I'd rather have a conventional ship instead. I guess the scum HWK will see some use in the same "phantom counter I wish I didn't have to take" role that Roark has. Or maybe someone will figure out how to use Palob Godalhi as more than just a scum equivalent of Biggs. Dace Bonearm and the generic are garbage though, and I doubt they'll ever see any significant use.

Aggressor: I want to love it, but I can't. The dual aggressor list has so much potential on paper, and it's awesome fun when it's working well. But there are just so many ways for it to stop working (R3-A2, blocking academy pilots, etc), and when it fails you want to throw the ship across the room in frustration. I think this will be a fun ship for casual games, but it's probably too inconsistent for competitive tournaments.

Starviper: mediocre at best. It wants to be a Corran-style "supership", but it fails badly. Sure, it's going to be a nightmare for low-PS lists like BBBBZ if you can keep it alive through the initial exchange of fire, but it has so many endgame situations (Corran, Fel, etc) where you have little hope of winning. Maybe it could see some use if something completely unpredictable happens in the future and the current high-PS metagame goes away, but there's no reason to believe that's going to happen any time soon.

Scyk: terrible ship. It's an expensive glass canon that isn't efficient in any realistic situation. Every time I've seen these on the table the player that brought them has regretted it, and I have yet to see any compelling argument that this is just some weird local thing. At most I might be able to see Serissu as a "Biggs" equivalent that draws early fire away from something more important, but I don't know if that's enough to justify spending the points. At least Biggs has 5 HP and a three-dice primary gun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/17 07:16:12


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I feel like the Scyk should have been 2 points cheaper, to offset the cost of adding the title. Then you can have a cheap space filler, or you can drop points on the not-unique title to go for a deadlier ship. Making the title free doesn't make any sense as the title isn't unique, and has no drawback. But paying 2 points to ... pay points for something else doesn't really make any sense to me for a ship that's already 14 points and fragile.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Agreed on the Scyks, I think they're another A Wing/Advanced and they've got them wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an adjustment in future waves.

As it stands, it is tough to make a compelling case for them over the Zs at the lower end of their cost or the Ys at the higher.

I guess it is that flexibility we're expected to pay for, but flexibility seems to be a thing that games developers consistently over price.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 streamdragon wrote:
Making the title free doesn't make any sense as the title isn't unique, and has no drawback.


They did that for the Tie Interceptor, and A-Wing titles though. They're both non-unique, free, and allow you to take an additional upgrade with no drawback other than paying the cost for the 2nd Modification or EPT.

   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

I think that what they may have been thinking with the Scyk is that they did not want it to be possible to swarm with cannons- You could run 4 Ion Cannons and 2 Flechette cannons if there was no cost to the title. Problem is, it also kinda wrecks any other use of the Scyk.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
 
Forum Index » Atomic Mass Games (Star Wars & Marvel: Crisis Protocol)
Go to: