Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Haldir wrote:
Probably better off with just the old one for this event. Not so sure about this ranged D stuff . Bring 2 lists just in case. I'm very curious about this book.

 luke1705 wrote:
The only issue I have with only allowing only battle brother allies is that it disadvantages armies with a narrow allies matrix *coughTyranidscough* whereas it rewards armies with access to the entire imperium of man. If you allow something like self-ally, this is mitigated since every army is at least on equal footing.

I think this format is a good starting point. The idea that the 11th company GT had where you could determine your victory conditions to an extent after seeing your opponents' list was pretty cool since it was then about who was the better general and not who had the best net list (in theory). There is a lot going on in this format, so maybe it could be simplified a touch, but overall I like it. First blood is kind of necessary I think because otherwise going second for objectives is just too good. Last laugh also balances out first blood somewhat, but you're not always going to get a kill point on the last turn, just like you won't always get first blood if you go first

I think that you could safely say that tyranids can ally with themselves. I think that's fair given the current book. They also have nice detachments so you could do a CAD and a formation or detachment or just 2 CAD. I think self allying is fine. I can think of only one game, a practice game with ckyle over the weekend, that first blood was not won by the person that went first. With dark elder any space marine, eldar or tau going first will pop a venom or raider so maybe i am biased .

I was just wondering if we need so many things to keep track of during the game. But as it stands i am more than happy with the simple FOC and not a free for all, pick you whatever you want and destroy game.

Yes I like the single source as well. In play testing though Kim brought out a good point. A lot of the armies now don't really work as a single source , they are designed more to be an ally. Could you take 1850 of Harliquins or Militarium Tempestus and make it work? I'm sure some people could. However both seem much better suited for a ancillary role.
I'm going to see what the guys want and go by that. My motivation in organizing this is to get in great 40K action the way I personally enjoy playing it. Luckily a lot of other players seem to feel the same way!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey Steve what are you bringing with the DE? Kim is brutal with jinking and splinter racks! Also Nids hate poison ! In play testing they have owned the Maelstrom every game decisively .

steve2112 wrote:


I think that you could safely say that tyranids can ally with themselves. I think that's fair given the current book. They also have nice detachments so you could do a CAD and a formation or detachment or just 2 CAD. I think self allying is fine. I can think of only one game, a practice game with ckyle over the weekend, that first blood was not won by the person that went first. With dark elder any space marine, eldar or tau going first will pop a venom or raider so maybe i am biased .

I was just wondering if we need so many things to keep track of during the game. But as it stands i am more than happy with the simple FOC and not a free for all, pick you whatever you want and destroy game.

If you're referencing leviathan, the issue is that you give up Objective Secured. Perhaps less of a disadvantage than it used to be, but still a handicap. Most places won't allow double CAD because it can get spammy fast, and with Leviathan + Tyranid CAD the potential for abuse is there as well.

You should see some of my kill point denial lists I love going second because I never give up first blood. I think my ghost ask has given up first blood on a lucky 6 result (after a failed jink save of course) more than all of the units in all of my armies combined

Haldir wrote:
Yes I like the single source as well. In play testing though Kim brought out a good point. A lot of the armies now don't really work as a single source , they are designed more to be an ally. Could you take 1850 of Harliquins or Militarium Tempestus and make it work? I'm sure some people could. However both seem much better suited for a ancillary role.
I'm going to see what the guys want and go by that. My motivation in organizing this is to get in great 40K action the way I personally enjoy playing it. Luckily a lot of other players seem to feel the same way!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey Steve what are you bringing with the DE? Kim is brutal with jinking and splinter racks! Also Nids hate poison ! In play testing they have owned the Maelstrom every game decisively .

I am bringing my all wych cult list

4 raiders with 10 wyches each
3 venoms with bloodbrides
2 units of 10 helions

or i am bring something a bit more reliable.

steve2112 wrote:

Haldir wrote:
Yes I like the single source as well. In play testing though Kim brought out a good point. A lot of the armies now don't really work as a single source , they are designed more to be an ally. Could you take 1850 of Harliquins or Militarium Tempestus and make it work? I'm sure some people could. However both seem much better suited for a ancillary role.
I'm going to see what the guys want and go by that. My motivation in organizing this is to get in great 40K action the way I personally enjoy playing it. Luckily a lot of other players seem to feel the same way!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey Steve what are you bringing with the DE? Kim is brutal with jinking and splinter racks! Also Nids hate poison ! In play testing they have owned the Maelstrom every game decisively .

I am bringing my all wych cult list

4 raiders with 10 wyches each
3 venoms with bloodbrides
2 units of 10 helions

or i am bring something a bit more reliable.

Steve is super cheese in case you couldn't tell. He just clogs up my bolters with wych corpses and it's all down hill from there.

LOL !

Guys just had a cancellation , so there is an open slot.

My Guard is all ready for tomorrow, see you guys early tomorrow!

We'll be there early Lou if you want to come. Necrons are waiting....!

edit: placed in wrong thread, sorry

Had a great time today! Lots of great players and great games looking forward for the next one Joe!

Lazarus67 wrote:
Had a great time today! Lots of great players and great games looking forward for the next one Joe!

I second this. It was a great time and the single CAD really eliminated some spam. I definitely am coming back to the next one.

The shop was also great. It was well stocked with lots of cool stuff. I suggest anyone that hasnt been there to check it out.


- steve

Awesome tournament, was a great bunch of guys and always good to see so many people gaming and enjoying the hobby. The format was fun with the single source, felt more like an old school tournament with fresh rules, but I wouldn't have any problems with two or more sources myself.

My one recommendation would be to see if Saturday would be possible instead of Sunday, but I understand that the store may have other events going on.

Great job guys, will definitely keep an eye out for the next one. Oh, and can we get a posting of the final rankings whenever you all have time?

Thanks for the great feedback CKlye. Steve , Kevin and I really try to make it a fair and fun event for everyone.

The results....by name , wins , SOS and VP`S

1: Carlo K 3,4,36
2: Zach P 3,4,30
3:Chad H 2,7,30
4: Dan S 2,5,25
5: Chris K 2,5,21
6 + 7 Luke M and Will A 2,4,29
8: Cameron P 2,3,25
9: Ryan M 2,3,22
10: Steve G: 2,3,16
11: Joe B 1,5,25
12 + 13 John P and Freiler 1,5,18
14: Kevin K 1,3,26
15: Mike D: 1,3,22
16: Nick P: 1,1,9
17: Eric K: 0,6,15
18: Luis M 0,6,10
19: Keith S: 0,4,11
20: Vincent G: 0,3,6

It was really surprised by all the normal lists. I had never done a tournament and I expected everyone to be using all r'varna battlesuits list or other ridiculous stuff. Instead everyone I saw brought manageable stuff.

It was a good time. Thanks for organizing it!

What kind of armies the top 2 brought?

Carlos ran Leviathan. I believe Zach ran Eldar , not sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glad you liked it Ned! We play tested the missions to try and give everyone a chance to accrue points in some way. Also most likely we will stay with the one source. The game is just so convoluted now , with so many new releases etc. Allies just encourages broken lists. I'm aware that some armies May function better as an ally. But Like you said the lists were manageable . I think that the one source has a lot to do with that.

Keep checkin Dakka I'm going to try to get a date soon for the next one.

In retrospect I had a couple of thoughts to post:

The bonus points were a pretty big influence on my list making. Specifically, Grey Knight Interceptors are actually a little better than Strike Squads, but because of the bonus point I brought more troops instead in order to make that much harder for me to give up that bonus point.

Also, though not the whole reason for my decision, gaining a bonus point for a fully painted army was a factor in me deciding to bring Grey Knights since i wouldn't be able to finish painting my original army in time.

If you were specifically trying to influence list creation (and I should note that I have no problem if that was your goal) then it was mission accomplished for me. But if you weren't then you may want to reconsider the troop destruction bonus.

I would also recommend removing fully painted as a bonus point and instead having a painting competition instead where people can vote on who had the best painted army or you can have judges to consider it. Maybe give prize support for that where the winner gets the equivalent of a second place prize.

Other than that I really had no issues whatsoever with the format and tournament. Just some thoughts I wanted to put out there in case you were looking for more specific feedback.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and in continuing my unbroken streak of swearing that I'm going to take pictures at a tournament and then promptly forgetting, here's the one blurry snapshot I took of mine and Will's game. btw, Will, you got heresy all over my boots.

Those are good points CKyle. The reason for the bonus painting point was sometime people will bring an unpainted half built army because it's the latest meta and gives them the best chance to win. Also fully painted enhances the event. I wanted to reward people for supporting the hobby aspect of the game.
Also I was thinking of just 3 obj's for the one mission , not the D3 plus 2. What do you think? Do you live in the area ? I'm always looking for people to play test the format.

Unfortunately Steve and I live on Long Island so not really available for play testing except among ourselves, but if he's down I'm sure we can post feedback for you. And I completely understand not wanting a tide of the newest grey hotness all over every table, so giving the bonus point for the game definitely helps to counteract that. I still think a painting competition would be nice though.

I also agree that 3 objectives is good, I would just make it that you can't put them in your deployment zone to prevent people from turtling up on one that's 3" from their table edge.

Oh, and I almost forgot. You guys did a pretty good job filling up most of the tables with terrain, but there were a few that were somewhat sparse. Worked well for me with a Deep Striking army, but some armies rely on hiding and cover so it could hurt them if they draw certain table. I understand how very difficult it can be when trying to fill 10 table though.

Yes there were a few more that could have used a little more terrain. We'll add more for the next one for sure.

I agree with Ckyle for the most part. Its a shame his picture was blurry. would have been a nice one.

We can test out some missions ourselves and post the results. I definitely thought the terrain was sparse on some tables. Xenos armies really need terrain and cover saves.

I think that if there is a tie in tertiary points a trivia quiz should determine the winner.

Lol! We are taking some of you guys feedback and putting it in next event.

I had a great time there. I will surely be a regular.

The addition of Forgeworld was a visceral impact. Kudos to that. The turn out spoke for itself. The only items I would open up a discussion about is the sum of total objectives between Dawn of War, combined with Maelstrom, combined with addition, new secondaries tacked on in one game. It took playing a warm up game to adjust to keeping track of all of the potential vp you can earn. That may be a little overwhelming for the average dilettante.

In addition, and this may just be me, the coefficients used for match totals don't feel "organic" to me. I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to add a little more weight to completion of tactical objectives and even maybe add some kill points in place of a whole category of vp accumulation (eg Dawn of War). In retrospect, reviewing army load outs for this last tournament, I almost feel that just purely building a defensive, obsec list would have been prime, with little or no killpower, since there wasn't much emphasis on tactical objectives (destroy ×unit) and no kill missions. Again, this may be a rare perspective on my half.

The one revision it pose is the inclusion of Stronghold Assault. I'm in the camp that believes it's not overpowered/confusing/unfair, as long as Massive Strongholds or multi building strongholds are restricted. I think they actually add more flair and table dressing.

Don't take anything I said as a critique, it's more just me thinking out load. You ran a great tournament, and I'm looking forward to future events you guys plan.


Btw, excuse my naivety, but what is "SoS" in the totals?

Hey I had a great time at the event! Y'all made my first tournament ever a lot of fun. Can't wait for the next one (Where maybe I wont come in last place :-p)

Glad you enjoyed it. We are looking for June 14th for the next one. John one of the store managers will be posting soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nyghoma I`m glad you came and had a good time. Thanks for coming out the last two to support our events!! Your Tau looked awesome btw. For the objectives for the one mission it will be only 3 , not a D3 plus 2. Also the obj`s won`t be able to be placed in either players deployment zone. We are changing these based on from the feedback from you guys . John who is one of the store mgr.`s will be posting shortly. We`re thinking July 14th.