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I am a newcomer to W40k and I'm hoping to get into the game in the (hopefully) near future if my employment situation becomes more favorable. The Tau really caught my eye and they are the army I'd like to go with. As it stands now, my budget for a starter army is about 200. What I've been thinking is picking up a battle force ($120), either Commander Farsight ($50) or Shadowsun ($40), and then either a Devilfish ($38) or a Broadside ($50).

I was hoping to get some opinions and suggestions from more experienced players; Tau and non-Tau alike. What do you guys think?

Well commander far sight work great with crisis suit lists, he even has his own supplement codex which makes them troop choices. So if you chose him I would say get another crisis suit or two (I just really love crisis suits) Or the devilfish.

The battle force is a really good value I find. You can't go wrong buying one (or even two if thats how you wanna roll).

People that started tau here first bought 3-6 broadsides and 2-3 riptides and the rest is suits and one unit of Fire Warriors.

Welcome to 40k and the greater good! First off, I would highly suggest looking around for a store (or ordering online) that offers some kind of discount. The "standard" discount price seems to be around 20% off retail. That can get you quite a bit more for your $200ish.

What models you purchase really depends on how you want to play your army. Do you want to play a gun-line (lots of guys with lots of guns, hiding behind a barricade)? Do you want to play mechanized Tau (bringing lots of vehicles)? Do you want to bring lots of battlesuits? Perhaps a balanced army that brings a bit of everything?

As for your starter army, I would suggest only two things. First, you'll want to get at least one other box of troops (Fire Warriors or Kroot) in addition to what comes in the battle force. While it's possible to play unbound (bring whatever you want), most standard games will require two units of troops. With only 12 Fire Warriors, you're going to be forced to bring the same thing in every game - two units of 6 Fire Warriors each.
Second, you might want to pick up a generic Tau Commander model instead of Farsight or Shadowsun. These are named "special" characters and come with the same gear/rules every game. A Tau Crisis Suit Commander can be customized and would allow you to experiment with what your codex can do.

luky7dayz - I have been leaning more towards Commander Farsight, especially with reading through possibly strategies involving him and other Crisis Suits.

Siphen - I was thinking about supplementing with a Pathfinder team or two. From what I understand, Markerlights are crucial to any Tau strategy and I hear Pathfinders are best for Markerlights. I hadn't even thought of just picking up a generic commander, that is an excellent idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how big of a benefit is it that Farsight can take Crisis Suits as troops?

the_kraken wrote:
luky7dayz - I have been leaning more towards Commander Farsight, especially with reading through possibly strategies involving him and other Crisis Suits.

Siphen - I was thinking about supplementing with a Pathfinder team or two. From what I understand, Markerlights are crucial to any Tau strategy and I hear Pathfinders are best for Markerlights. I hadn't even thought of just picking up a generic commander, that is an excellent idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how big of a benefit is it that Farsight can take Crisis Suits as troops?

Marker drones are in every way superior to pathfinders if.you.can spare a commander with drone controller:

- Relentless (can shoot their Markerlights st full BS after moving)
- BS 5 from the commander's Drone Controller
- Can JSJ (jump-shoot-jump) around cover: start behind LOS blocking terrain, move into the open on the movement phase, shoot your markerlights on the shooting phase, move back behind terrain in assault phase usung your thrust move.
- Better armor save
- The battleforce gives you plenty of gun drones. You can convert these imto Marker drones without much trouble, saving you some cash in the process.

Would a generic Crisis Suit commander be able to take Drone Controller or would that be a waste as far as a commander goes?

the_kraken wrote:
Would a generic Crisis Suit commander be able to take Drone Controller or would that be a waste as far as a commander goes?

Yes, he can.

In my list I run a commander with Drone Controller, Target Lock and 2 missile Pods in a unit of 6 marker drones (2 from the commander, 4 strong drone squadron).

This gives me 6 BS5 markerlights as well as 4 s7 ap4 shots at range 36 that can go to a different target than the Markerlights.

I don't suppose I could have a look at your list could I?

the_kraken wrote:
I don't suppose I could have a look at your list could I?

I'm on phone ATM so all I can hive you is a writeup from memory:

Tau CAD:

HQ:
Commander, Drone Controller, Target Lock, 2 Missile Pods, 2 Marker Drones
Ethereal

Elites:
Riptide, Ion Accelerator, Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override
2x 1 man Crisis Team, 2x Fusion Blaster

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors with rifles, Devilfish with Disruption Pod
11 Fire Warriors with rifles, Devilfish with Disruption Pod
18 Kroot with sniper ammo and 1 Kroot Hound

Fast Attack:
4 marker drones
2x 1 Tetra scout speeder (FW units)

Heavy Support:
Skyray with Smart Missile System


Firebase Support Cadre:
Riptide, Ion Accelerator, Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override
3x Broadside with High Yeld Missile Pods and Smart Missile System, 1 with Early Warning Override
3x Broadside with High Yeld Missile Pods and Smart Missile System


It's not the most competitive list out there and I'm still experimenting with it (I'm pretty new as well, only started play last autumn) but so far I am pretty happy with this list's performance in my local Meta (which is pretty competitive).

For example stuff I'm still undecided about:
- Which HQ to make Warlord
- Is the FW+Ethereal combo pulling it's weight? So far I'm leaning toward 'not really', but I've only played vs. MEQ or more resilient armies. Need to see how it goes vs hordes too.
-Kroot. They're a new addition about to be tested for the first time tonight. I tried running a Hammerhead with Longstrike but that didn't work out, so I replaced it with a Skyray and Kroot.

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:
I don't suppose I could have a look at your list could I?

I'm on phone ATM so all I can hive you is a writeup from memory:

Tau CAD:

HQ:
Commander, Drone Controller, Target Lock, 2 Missile Pods, 2 Marker Drones
Ethereal

Elites:
Riptide, Ion Accelerator, Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override
2x 1 man Crisis Team, 2x Fusion Blaster

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors with rifles, Devilfish with Disruption Pod
11 Fire Warriors with rifles, Devilfish with Disruption Pod
18 Kroot with sniper ammo and 1 Kroot Hound

Fast Attack:
4 marker drones
2x 1 Tetra scout speeder (FW units)

Heavy Support:
Skyray with Smart Missile System


Firebase Support Cadre:
Riptide, Ion Accelerator, Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override
3x Broadside with High Yeld Missile Pods and Smart Missile System, 1 with Early Warning Override
3x Broadside with High Yeld Missile Pods and Smart Missile System


It's not the most competitive list out there and I'm still experimenting with it (I'm pretty new as well, only started play last autumn) but so far I am pretty happy with this list's performance in my local Meta (which is pretty competitive).

For example stuff I'm still undecided about:
- Which HQ to make Warlord
- Is the FW+Ethereal combo pulling it's weight? So far I'm leaning toward 'not really', but I've only played vs. MEQ or more resilient armies. Need to see how it goes vs hordes too.
-Kroot. They're a new addition about to be tested for the first time tonight. I tried running a Hammerhead with Longstrike but that didn't work out, so I replaced it with a Skyray and Kroot.

Many thanks friend of friends and good luck in your efforts tonight. This will be most useful information when I start the experimenting process. I guess I do actually have four Kroot Carnivores already, but I don't know how much good four of them would even do.

4 carnivores might save you a little bit of cash in the long run.

Kroit squad size is 10-20, and a box has 16. If you already have 4, you'll have just the right number to run 1 max sized squad or 2 min sized ones with a single box.

I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information. I'm assuming the minimum sized squads could be fleshed out later on with Kroot Hounds or Krootox?

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information.

Not wanting to sound condescending, but have you read the codex? It's the most important thing you should do, before spending money on miniatures...

 Vector Strike wrote:

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information.

Not wanting to sound condescending, but have you read the codex? It's the most important thing you should do, before spending money on miniatures...

I just got it a day or two ago and have been making my way through it as time constraints allow.

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information. I'm assuming the minimum sized squads could be fleshed out later on with Kroot Hounds or Krootox?

Yup.

Not sure how many though. I haven't really considered Krootox since they seem a bit overcosted to me and I only run 1 hound fir Acute Senses

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information. I'm assuming the minimum sized squads could be fleshed out later on with Kroot Hounds or Krootox?

Yup.

Not sure how many though. I haven't really considered Krootox since they seem a bit overcosted to me and I only run 1 hound fir Acute Senses

What about Kroot Shapers? Any attraction there?

the_kraken wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information. I'm assuming the minimum sized squads could be fleshed out later on with Kroot Hounds or Krootox?

Yup.

Not sure how many though. I haven't really considered Krootox since they seem a bit overcosted to me and I only run 1 hound fir Acute Senses

What about Kroot Shapers? Any attraction there?

Not really. It doesn't add much to justify the 21 points price tag IMO.

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:
I had no idea about the squad size, but that's also highly useful information. I'm assuming the minimum sized squads could be fleshed out later on with Kroot Hounds or Krootox?

Yup.

Not sure how many though. I haven't really considered Krootox since they seem a bit overcosted to me and I only run 1 hound fir Acute Senses

What about Kroot Shapers? Any attraction there?

Not really. It doesn't add much to justify the 21 points price tag IMO.

Good to know. Thanks again.

To use Kroot, you could either use them as speedbumps/suicide squads infiltrating near the enemy while your real stuff close in to the kill or with an ethereal nearby to be a serious speedbump. A wraithknight against 20 stubborn kroot will stay many turns there!

There was another thread with the exact same topic posted not to long ago, some good pointers where given in it, you could check that one out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/637298.page

MoD_Legion wrote:
There was another thread with the exact same topic posted not to long ago, some good pointers where given in it, you could check that one out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/637298.page

I will be doing just that. Thank you good sir.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:
To use Kroot, you could either use them as speedbumps/suicide squads infiltrating near the enemy while your real stuff close in to the kill or with an ethereal nearby to be a serious speedbump. A wraithknight against 20 stubborn kroot will stay many turns there!

It sounds like they're more of a disposable utility than an actual threat to the enemy.

the_kraken wrote:


It sounds like they're more of a disposable utility than an actual threat to the enemy.

Kroot are mostly good for places they can reach with Infiltrate and Outflank.

Their offemsive potential is nothing to write home about, but they van pose a threat to MCs with sniper ammo (wound a t8 Wraithknight on 4+ with a 7 point model? Yes please!).

Kroot main issue is their defense. T3 and 6+ save means they're really easy to remove from the board.

First things first, instead of getting what you are trying to buy, get two battle forces. I believe you can pull it off.

Why?
First it gives you a unit of fire warriors, which are good core troops
You get 3 battlesuits, which one can be your commander
You also get 3 stealth suits, which fire tons of shots and are harder to kill than fire warriors
Finally you get 6 gun drones and a piranha, which while not super good are still good to have around.

Aside from that, you should play some, read the codex and think about your army. Do you want battlesuits equipped with extra deadly guns like plasma and/or fusion, or rather dual burst cannons, removing the need for many fire warriors?

Kroot are a little hard to use, but damn good. An ethereal can give them leadership 10 if he's in range (read: parked in a devilfish) and also grant the kroot extra rapid fire shots! Not only this, but kroot can take sniper weapons for dirt cheap and benifit from markerlights. I play in tournaments with some of the biggest asshats, and even my basic list with 80 sniper kroot tear their lists apart. Kroot can also outflank and are great harrassment units.

LordBlades wrote:

the_kraken wrote:


It sounds like they're more of a disposable utility than an actual threat to the enemy.

Kroot are mostly good for places they can reach with Infiltrate and Outflank.

Their offemsive potential is nothing to write home about, but they van pose a threat to MCs with sniper ammo (wound a t8 Wraithknight on 4+ with a 7 point model? Yes please!).

Kroot main issue is their defense. T3 and 6+ save means they're really easy to remove from the board.

That does sound like it would be pretty awesome. How did your game go btw?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 juraigamer wrote:
First things first, instead of getting what you are trying to buy, get two battle forces. I believe you can pull it off.

Why?
First it gives you a unit of fire warriors, which are good core troops
You get 3 battlesuits, which one can be your commander
You also get 3 stealth suits, which fire tons of shots and are harder to kill than fire warriors
Finally you get 6 gun drones and a piranha, which while not super good are still good to have around.

Aside from that, you should play some, read the codex and think about your army. Do you want battlesuits equipped with extra deadly guns like plasma and/or fusion, or rather dual burst cannons, removing the need for many fire warriors?

Kroot are a little hard to use, but damn good. An ethereal can give them leadership 10 if he's in range (read: parked in a devilfish) and also grant the kroot extra rapid fire shots! Not only this, but kroot can take sniper weapons for dirt cheap and benifit from markerlights. I play in tournaments with some of the biggest asshats, and even my basic list with 80 sniper kroot tear their lists apart. Kroot can also outflank and are great harrassment units.

I was actually considering the two battleforce approach as well. Almost made it through the codex now, going to give it some very in-depth study upon finishing, with spreadsheets and whatnot.

the_kraken wrote:


That does sound like it would be pretty awesome. How did your game go btw?

I won, although I should have lost.

I played vs 30k Mechanicum with Grey Knights allies.

My opponent was runnng the equivalent of 2 centstars (Mechanicum Myrmidos are slightly cheaper, slightly better versions of Space Marines Centurions).

A combination of bad rolls from my opponent (he didn't get Invisibility despite 2 librarians, one of his Myrmidon units scattered off map on hus first Gat of Infinity, going into Ongoing Reserves and thus losing 1 turn of shooting) and bad strategy calls on his side (targeting Riptides instead of Broadsides) led to gim conceeding after his turn 4.

The kroot performed really well, managing to chase of a 5 marine squad from a backfield objective (gk strike squad with Psycannon), but 18 of them is a bit uunwieldy. I have dropped a Disruption Pod from a Devipfish (the one not housing the Ethereal) whuch allows me to field 2 units of 10 kroot and hound.

Congratulations on your victory. Glad to hear things went in your favor.

Okay, I've been doing some research and study and have come up with 3 potential lists. Which do you guys think would be best?

List 1-

HQ
XV8 Crisis Commander
2 XV8 Crisis Bodyguards

Troops
6 FW Team
6 FW Team

Elite
3 Stealth Team
1 Riptide

Fast Attack
Piranha

List 2-

HQ
XV8 Crisis Commander
2 XV8 Crisis Bodyguards

Troops
6 FW Team
6 FW Team
20 Kroot Squad+ 4 Kroot Hounds + 1 Krootox

Elite
3 Stealth Team

Fast Attack
1 Piranha

List 3 -

HQ
XV8 Crisis Commander
2 XV8 Crisis Bodyguards

Troops
12 FW Team
12 FW Team

Elite
3 Stealth Team

Fast Attack
1 Piranha

Heavy Support
1 Broadside

Your lists are interesting. And if you buy the battleforce off e-bay you can easily get two without breaking your $200 budget. A few things though.

1. Your lists need points and equipment. It's good to think abstractedly , but you don't know if you can field it all at 1000pts or 1250pts or 1500pts. Try using Epicroster.com It's a bit odd to figure out, (I can help if you need it) and it doesn't have Forgeworld in it. but it's fully online and free.

2. Remember your commander can take up to FIVE bodyguards. so your command force can be a total of SIX XV8's. And your body guards have access to far more equipment and automatically pass "Look out sir!" rolls. (meaning you could equip one of your bodyguards with Irridium armor, and make him a whipping boy. Allocating all the wounds to him having 2+ armor save.)

3. Play a few games and see what you like after the two battleforces. Riptides and Broadsides are the two strongest units in Tau. Riptides are just epic, and Broadsides come with 2+ armor save, and either 8+ missile shots a turn, or Twin linked railguns and Plasma to own your opponents TEQs.

Just as a note, Tau have a price drop since the last few codexi. Taking units without equipment or upgrades can actually benefit you by bringing more. ((Fire warriors don't often need a Shas'ui or bonding. etc. etc.)) One idea that I rather had fun with was running three crisis teams with only one flamer each. that's 81pts for almost MEQ. They can be cheap melee units and be a good distraction.

Why bodyguards instead of crisis team(s)?