Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Fireball wrote:
New pre-orders for ZARDU LAYAK & ANAKATIS KUL BLADE-SLAVES

Dribble

 Yodhrin wrote:


EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.

Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.

The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.

While I love nearly everything in the FW Character Series and generic line infantry (ie Armour Mark sets), I don't think many of the Legion specific units have really hit the 'Yay' buttons for me, and IMHO come off no better in quality than some of the 3rd party bits out there.

As an Ultra player I can't say I'm a fan of any of the legion upgrades we have received excluding the shield bits on these new guys - not the bolter component though - that magazine makes me shudder.

Looking back through the whole Legion range, the last Legion specific unit I liked was the Ghal Vorbak, and before that some of the original World Eaters stuff. It all went a bit down hill in what I was looking for from FW when they started rushing out the torso and helmet upgrades, and then pretty much everything from the Iron Hands onwards.

Just my view and 2 cents on the whole range as it stands.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.

Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.

The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.

You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?

Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);



I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.

The ultramarines carry bolt pistols, not bolters.

Looks like I might start me some Word bearers after all. I was looking for a reason to get book 5, and these just convinced me to do just that.

Do two of those Ultras have plasma pistols? Center and upper right? Defiantly looks like a non-bolter.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.

Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.

The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.

You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?

Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);



I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.

I think this is why I'm not sure what you're on about, I think you're mistaken about a few things.

First the combat shield and this shield look identical (from what we can see) in that the shield is attached to both the gun and the forearm. The pistol for the combat shield is fully integrated with the shield and it's all braced to the forearm:

You can see where the brace leading to the forearm is built into the back of the gun, and the magazine (and less clearly in this picture, the gun itself) are attached to the shield. I just painted one of these like a month ago, so I'm pretty confident on this. We don't have a good angle on these new shields, but they seem the same. The bolter is definitely attached to the back of the shield and the shield appears strapped around the forearm as well. Nothing is supported solely by their wrist.

Second, your diagram shows the exact opposite of what you're trying to say. In your version of the combat shield (which is incorrect anyway) hitting the muzzle of the pistol would put a load on their wrist. In the lower part of the diagram, hitting the muzzle or the shield wouldn't put a load on the wrist. The shield is much stiffer and stronger than the wrist joint, so it's going to transfer pretty much the entire load to their forearm. The wrist shouldn't be under load regardless of where you hit the shield, so long as the shield is still firmly attached to the forearm (and if we're talking a load great enough to completely break the shield's connection to their forearm, I think you have much bigger problems).

You're right that the larger moment arm from the shield/gun combination sticking out so far is going to put more torque on their elbow joint, and the whole thing is going to be slightly awkward to use due to its size, but that's neither here nor there as far as the wrist stuff goes.

The Word Bearers look excellent, as do the UltraMarines. The price for 5 marines is steep, though.

Damn, I really would go out and start a UM army right now if they were a tad cheaper, Really liking the new character as well, was hoping those blade slaves would look awesome and they do not disappoint.

I think they will manage ok with those shields seeing as they have massive over sized ceramite reinforced super human wrists !

 Nevelon wrote:
Do two of those Ultras have plasma pistols? Center and upper right? Defiantly looks like a non-bolter.

Yeah there's 5 bolt pistols and 2 plasma pistols in the kit.

 Rayvon wrote:
Damn, I really would go out and start a UM army right now if they were a tad cheaper, Really liking the new character as well, was hoping those blade slaves would look awesome and they do not disappoint.

I think they will manage ok with those shields seeing as they have massive over sized ceramite reinforced super human wrists !

Reinforced elbows! But yeah, I agree.

I don;t usually like Word Bearers models (barring the Gal Vorbak and Lorgar) but I love theses latest ones! The Blade-slaves look amazing!

Those WBs are gorgeous! Love the etched brass as well.

Man those Ultramarines are some of the best looking I've ever seen. Why oh why aren't they Imperial Fist so I can make an Crimson Fist honour guard unit out of em? /cry

 Yodhrin wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


EDIT: Not convinced by the Ultras, the inclusion of the bolter on the back of the shield makes the grip look extremely silly; there's a reason shields were secured around the forearm. These guys look as if they'd get their wrists shattered if an enemy hit the shield on the edge where the bolter muzzle sits.

Not sure what you're on about, as the shield looks to be strapped to their forearm here too. The inclusion of the bolter is no different from the bolt pistols incorporated into combat shields in GW kits, where the gun is part of the shield and the shield is attached to the forearm (except slightly more awkward in this case because the bolter is longer, placing their hand further back on the shield). They aren't holding the shield by the pistol grip on the gun.

The only things I don't like about these models, aside from the exorbitant price, are the goofy-looking helmets and the huge (but realistic) magazines attached to the bolters.

You're not sure what I'm on about, then you describe exactly what I'm on about?

Putting the hand further back on the shield and "securing" it to the wrist(look at the parts breakdown pic) creates a weak point, because if an enemy strikes the opposite outer edge of the shield the force of their blow on the wrist is going to be magnified by mechanical advantage. The Combat Shield is locked directly to the forearm and the pistol is gripped in the hand, while in this case the bolter is part of the shield and the whole assemblage is secured to the arm using some kind of brace. I feel like I'm not explaining this well, so I did a crappy MSPaint job to show what I mean(problem areas marked in red);



I know it's nitpickery, but wee detail issues like that are a personal bugbear. EDIT: And further, even if a blow to the outside edge doesn't cause the arm brace to shear off and break the wrist, it's still going to act as a lever on the bearer's elbow joint, making it much easier to force the shield into their body and restrict use of the CCW arm.

If you look at it you can see their forearms are strapped to the shield so they would not be supporting it just by a wrist.

Zaph wrote:
Man those Ultramarines are some of the best looking I've ever seen. Why oh why aren't they Imperial Fist so I can make an Crimson Fist honour guard unit out of em? /cry

You can. We have TWO of our own units from FW. The Phalanx Warder Squad.

Linky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Imperial_Fists/IMPERIAL_FISTS_LEGION_PHALANX_WARDER_SQUAD_UPGRADE_SET.html




AND

The Templar Brethren, but they're more of a Black Templars Vanguard or Honor Guard Squad.

Linky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Imperial_Fists/IMPERIAL_FISTS_LEGION_TEMPLAR_BRETHREN_UPGRADE_SET.html

I know, but they're not half as good looking as that UM unit imho

Zaph wrote:
I know, but they're not half as good looking as that UM unit imho

Heathen! Sons of Dorn 4evah! Take aim, boys!

 kronk wrote:

Zaph wrote:
I know, but they're not half as good looking as that UM unit imho

Heathen! Sons of Dorn 4evah! Take aim, boys!

Hey bob on the right

You are pointing the wrong way.

I'm surprised FW hasn't done the classic shoulder-mounted heavy bolter yet, unless I missed it.

 BrookM wrote:
I'm surprised FW hasn't done the classic shoulder-mounted heavy bolter yet, unless I missed it.

Boom! http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/SPACE_MARINE_HEAVY_WEAPONS_SET.html

 Desubot wrote:


Hey bob on the right

You are pointing the wrong way.

No one likes Bob.

Nice, many thanks!

Though a pity that it's only sold in that one pack.

Those Word Bearers.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Do want.

 kronk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


Hey bob on the right

You are pointing the wrong way.

No one likes Bob.

thats good because Bob hates everyone!

Bob is Alpharius.

I may just have to pick up those WBs even though I don't play 40k anymore.

 kronk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


Hey bob on the right

You are pointing the wrong way.

No one likes Bob.

Interesting.. I'd have pegged him as more of a Richard with the way he's pointing that gun...

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Bob is Alpharius.

I may just have to pick up those WBs even though I don't play 40k anymore.

And Bob hates Word Bearers more than anything else!

That standard bearer is fantastic.

Zaph wrote:
I know, but they're not half as good looking as that UM unit imho

That's because they're filthy Piss Astartes. Ones who'd be completely wiped out if the Ultramarines hadn't saved their asses.

Hmmm, the plasma pistols the Blade Slaves are carrying look like customised versions of the plastic plasma pistols in 40k kits, rather than the resin ones FW usually models onto HH models (the actual names for the plasma pistol marks escapes me). I suspected that GW style plasma pistols would be around in the HH, as plasma tech is ancient, but this confirms it for me.

The bolt pistols in the Suzerain shields are a nice touch IMO, although they would have to break the shield wall to fire.

Ok, so now waiting for a Godwyn pattern boltgun to appear in any form more official than a single Death Guard marine in the background pictures to Book 1 now...
A Character series model or one of the art work pictures of Marines showing their equipment with a short blurb of information would be enough confirmation.