Deadzone: Infestation from Mantic Games - Ends 4/6/2015 Plastic Forge Fathers funded!

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**.Mikes.**

monders wrote:

What about us mugs that missed the KS, but bought it retail?! Direct from Mantic, no less!

I have to admit I was tempted, but the "F-U, non Kickstarting prole!" vibe puts me off.

This is Mantic. If you emailed them and said you bought your DZ retail I'd bet my granny they'd send you the rules also.

**highlord tamburlaine**

I really wish they'd just make the game rules free.

All the other games have the stats and rules free. Why not Deadzone?

**MLaw**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I really wish they'd just make the game rules free.

All the other games have the stats and rules free. Why not Deadzone?

Exactly.

I'm relatively sure Infinity has some free sci-fi skirmish rules, plus I own Necromunda.. and there's one-page rules and a few other free skirmish sci-fi games. They're not doing us a favor. This is a product.
I personally found the first rulebook to be beyond shoddy and I helped pay for it's production along with several others. I think it was poorly edited and needed a lot more testing. I'm not alone in my views and I'm not wrong to feel the way I do.. I also don't like when people try to shame me for feeling like I was shortchanged on something. They half-assed the initial rulebook and IMO providing a hardcopy for people who backed at least $300 shouldn't be that big of a deal. Whatever the case is, Mantic is in fact slowly adopting GW-like practices. Let's stop pretending they're the patron saints of gaming.

**Paradigm**

MLaw wrote:

I'm relatively sure Infinity has some free sci-fi skirmish rules.

Aye, not only does Infinity have the full rules available free, but when they launched their 3rd Ed last year, the new PDF was released within a week of the book shipping (maybe even the same day as release) and contained not only the updated core rules but also fully updated profiles for the new edition. I think it's fair to say this generated a huge amount of goodwill from the community (many of whom happily bought the full book for the fluff/art anyway) and kept it simple for people to get into the game.

Now, I'm not going to turn on Mantic just for not doing that with DZ, as their service generally seems to be decent enough, but if they are going to do it for the KS backers, it would be nice if they did the same for those who supported them by buying from them direct right from the start. Surely all it would take is to do an automatic email to anyone who ordered the DZ core set/book from them with the update attached (data I would guess they have).

**Tyr13**

Or they could just put it online in general. Generates even more goodwill, people could check it out before buying, and they couldnt play the game without cards anyway, so youre not even losing sales there.
And Im not only saying that cause I got my copy of DZ from an independent retailer... <.<

**MLaw**

Yeah the card thing sucks too.. not having cards for everything I got from the KS was another annoyance.

**NTRabbit**

I get the impression it's going to go the same as Dreadball - a respectable amount of time to convince more people to buy/placate those who backed, followed by a fluff-free digital rulebook with unit stats, sans art of print and play layout, as an appendix at the back. You'll just need a little patience.

**angelofvengeance**

From Deadzone update #168

After three waves of shipping, tens of thousands of comments, messages and more man-hours than we can possibly count, the Deadzone Kickstarter is finally closed.
What this means is that we no longer have any more packages to ship, and will no longer be monitoring the comments or messages on Deadzone. If you do have a query please email dave@manticgames.com and he will assist you with it.
Deadzone has been an amazing phenomenon and a huge, massive learning process. It’s taken us to the next level in terms of our company growth with all of the growing pains that become associated to that. But we’re through the other side, wiser, greyer for all the hard work. And you know what, we’re thinking of doing it all again…
The Infestation is upon us...
The Deadzone: Infestation Kickstarter goes live at 1:30pm GMT on Friday 20th March.
A threat lurks deep within the darkest corners of Exham IV.
Violent and aggressive in nature, uncontrollable if left to expand.
The Council of Seven has dispatched the Enforcer Pathfinders to assess and neutralize the threat in its early stages.
They are too late.
Infestation is upon us…..

You can find out more about the new Kickstarter here. >>>http://e3.kickstarter.com/mpss/c/4AA/6TYCAA/t.1lg/MTaWgUuKSiaxnGYdOO9GkQ/h2/P6eUOoExUf49lAepFFOEsAUmGkvQC60plAzQi2fiH-2F2FpH47ovJPuPOkCRSCcGiK9sDevQH-2B-2BJngFNvkXYTK9A-3D-3D
Note that we will be giving you a free digital download of the updated rules when they are available, to say thank you for all of your support. We want to include you in refreshing the book, and we'd love for you to tell us what you like about the current rules and where you think we could improve them.
On the Kickstarter itself we will have a low cost pledge level available where you can get just the new book, a main pledge level where you'll be able to get the book and new hard plastics - a great bundle for existing players to add to their collection or for new backers to get involved with Deadzone - and, later in the campaign, a dedicated scenery-only pledge level.

**Gimgamgoo**

Deadzone Update 168 wrote:
Note that we will be giving you a free digital download of the updated rules when they are available, to say thank you for all of your support.

Wow. Thanks for that Mantic.
#sarcasm

I didn't get a cheap rulebook or pdf. I wasn't aware of Deadzone till after it had been made.
I paid full retail for the digital rulebook and full retail for the Starter Set rulebook - but I'm not due an updated rulebook.
I'm also a retail player that can't get several weapon options or figures that are detailed in my starter set as they were exclusive to KS backers.
The more I read about (and by) Mantic puts me more and more off them. Why are retail customers that pay more treated like pond scum?

**DaveC**

BoW interview with Ronnie

Book only $25-$35
Book and plastics in the $100 - $150 range

Planned minis all Hips
Veer-Myn Giant Rats
Pathfinders on Bikes
Asterian Clones

2 to 3 week campaign keep it short

**pretre**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Deadzone Update 168 wrote:
Note that we will be giving you a free digital download of the updated rules when they are available, to say thank you for all of your support.

Wow. Thanks for that Mantic.
#sarcasm

I didn't get a cheap rulebook or pdf. I wasn't aware of Deadzone till after it had been made.
I paid full retail for the digital rulebook and full retail for the Starter Set rulebook - but I'm not due an updated rulebook.
I'm also a retail player that can't get several weapon options or figures that are detailed in my starter set as they were exclusive to KS backers.
The more I read about (and by) Mantic puts me more and more off them. Why are retail customers that pay more treated like pond scum?

Try emailing them before flipping the feth out... That was an email to KS backers.

As has been said before, they'll probably hook you up.

**Nostromodamus**

I bought retail and certainly don't expect Mantic to give me free stuff. That's more suited to a special offer for people who helped fund the game so I could buy it retail in the first place. Though as has been said, I'm sure they'll give it to anyone who asks.

Getting super excited for the launch!

**GrimDork**

Yeah i dunno.... I mean buying at retail is more expensive but then that's nobody's fault is it? I dunno if I get the sense of entitlement for people who knew nothing of the project or adopted a wait-and-see policy and picked it up later. I mean, I backed DZ *heavily* and wouldn't expect to be sent a PDF from a separate project even if it is one that updates my rules, I consider a bonus. Kind of just the nature of the beast though, if someone gets something for free, everyone else will want it regardless of relative situation.

I'm also getting pretty excited to see whats coming, especially now that I see another confirmation of hard plastic, and in the same update as giant rats and pathfinder bikes. Pathfinder bikes in hard plastic? Oh man.. oh man... awesome. I always wanted some space marine scout bikers but never could justify the cost... these may just do that.

Asterian clones? /intrigued

**Nostromodamus**

Yes, Asterian clones? Something to bulk up the future Warpath army? Intriguing indeed...

Also stoked for hard plastic Pathfinder Bikers. Will they be the monowheel bikes? I hope so!

**GrimDork**

I can only assume monowheels after they already made one, but we'll see I guess!

I know they had renders of bulkier not-cyphers that were maybe fully robotic drones, but maybe that was gonna be their giant and not their infantry... not sure, excited. May have to actually paint some cyhpers.

**.Mikes.**

GrimDork wrote:

Asterian clones? /intrigued

You should be.

**Talking Banana**

Yeah, very confused about the Asterian clones, given they've already shown some Asterian battle droid concepts that looked like they would be the cannon fodder.
I really hope they haven't dropped the battle droids altogether. Those concepts looked ace.

See?

I remember clones being kicked around as a Rebs cannon fodder hard plastic trooper idea at one point. Maybe Asterian clones mean that the Rebs - or the Corp forces - will now get battle droids instead, then?

**highlord tamburlaine**

Maybe something more in line with the Dreadball mechanites possibly? Junk old tech that can still be used?

Maybe Asterian clones are what the drones are called?

I also thought it was a nice gesture to offer previous backers a PDF. It's not like they need to or anything.

I know I'll be waiting for my rats soon!

**warboss**

GrimDork wrote:
Yeah i dunno.... I mean buying at retail is more expensive but then that's nobody's fault is it? I dunno if I get the sense of entitlement for people who knew nothing of the project or adopted a wait-and-see policy and picked it up later. I mean, I backed DZ *heavily* and wouldn't expect to be sent a PDF from a separate project even if it is one that updates my rules, I consider a bonus. Kind of just the nature of the beast though, if someone gets something for free, everyone else will want it regardless of relative situation.

If GW doesn't get a free pass for flip flopping editions after only two years, why should mantic?

**GrimDork**

I guess that's a fair point but it wasn't really what I was talking about. I was going on about backer/not-backer/entitlement/schism/blahblah, I hadn't really said anything about it being too soon for a new edition.

For what you've said, I think a couple of of things...

Its not gonna have the hard-to-swallow price tag of the GW book (sure it's consummate with quality/size/whatever to some degree, but when all you want is working rules the GW book is a bitter, bitter pill).

And secondly, IF they genuinely improve the rules and make the game more accessible to new players at the same time? I'm cool with that. I'd be down to buy a new DZ rulebook just to glean a few more snippets of fluff and stick it with it's now obsolete brothers on the shelf.

But sure, if Mantic ends up putting out a new DZ rulebook every 2 years, that'll probably be annoying. I dunno that this will be the case... but if it is, they deserve no more of a free pass than GW. (nor did I at any point say such a thing

)

**warboss**

You said you didn't understand the sense of entitlement. I unabashedly think that we as consumers are entitled to get more than 2 years of use out of a gaming book from its first publication so I reframed the question in a way that may better explain where those unhappy with this may be coming from. If they didn't get it right and feel the need to replace the product on store shelves in less than half the typical life cycle normal for those products then they should give everyone the rules update for free and sell the premium version through the KS. I hold everyone to that standard and have criticized companies that ignored it regardless of how much I like the IP (like 40k and Heavy Gear... both of which are guilty of doing the same thing).

**GrimDork**

Me:

But sure, if Mantic ends up putting out a new DZ rulebook every 2 years, that'll probably be annoying. I dunno that this will be the case... but if it is, they deserve no more of a free pass than GW.

As far as that point is concerned, I don't disagree with you.

But, with any luck, this pass will see the necessary improvements and we'll see the Warpath kickstarter before they feel the need to make a bunch more deadzone and/or any new/modified/updated rules for it.

Still *really* curious as to the campaign changes, I didn't get to play much DZ original to comment on playability or balance with any credibility, but even with my limited skirmish game experience the campaign looked awful light.

**warboss**

GrimDork wrote:
Me:

But sure, if Mantic ends up putting out a new DZ rulebook every 2 years, that'll probably be annoying. I dunno that this will be the case... but if it is, they deserve no more of a free pass than GW.

As far as that point is concerned, I don't disagree with you.

But, with any luck, this pass will see the necessary improvements and we'll see the Warpath kickstarter before they feel the need to make a bunch more deadzone and/or any new/modified/updated rules for it.

Still *really* curious as to the campaign changes, I didn't get to play much DZ original to comment on playability or balance with any credibility, but even with my limited skirmish game experience the campaign looked awful light.

I know but I was just explaining the reasoning behind my post. If anything can predict the future, it'll be what mantic has done with their other main line (Kings of War). Looking at the wiki page, it was released in 2010 as a physical copy in a boxed set, significantly revised in 2013 as a hardback, and kickstarted a 2nd edition in 2014 to be delivered in mid 2015. To their credit, I believe at least the first two versions were also available for free legal downlaod as well but their established pattern is to put out a new rulebook every 2-3 years. That doesn't bode well if you expect more than just 2 years of utility from a mantic rules purchase and deadzone is following that same pattern.

**NTRabbit**

Vermonter wrote:
Yeah, very confused about the Asterian clones, given they've already shown some Asterian battle droid concepts that looked like they would be the cannon fodder.
I really hope they haven't dropped the battle droids altogether. Those concepts looked ace.

See?

I remember clones being kicked around as a Rebs cannon fodder hard plastic trooper idea at one point. Maybe Asterian clones mean that the Rebs - or the Corp forces - will now get battle droids instead, then?

I was pretty certain at the time that this concept was meant to be the Asterian large walker, not another infantry sized line trooper

**NobodyXY**

warboss wrote:
GrimDork wrote:
Me:

But sure, if Mantic ends up putting out a new DZ rulebook every 2 years, that'll probably be annoying. I dunno that this will be the case... but if it is, they deserve no more of a free pass than GW.

As far as that point is concerned, I don't disagree with you.

But, with any luck, this pass will see the necessary improvements and we'll see the Warpath kickstarter before they feel the need to make a bunch more deadzone and/or any new/modified/updated rules for it.

Still *really* curious as to the campaign changes, I didn't get to play much DZ original to comment on playability or balance with any credibility, but even with my limited skirmish game experience the campaign looked awful light.

I know but I was just explaining the reasoning behind my post. If anything can predict the future, it'll be what mantic has done with their other main line (Kings of War). Looking at the wiki page, it was released in 2010 as a physical copy in a boxed set, significantly revised in 2013 as a hardback, and kickstarted a 2nd edition in 2014 to be delivered in mid 2015. To their credit, I believe at least the first two versions were also available for free legal downlaod as well but their established pattern is to put out a new rulebook every 2-3 years. That doesn't bode well if you expect more than just 2 years of utility from a mantic rules purchase and deadzone is following that same pattern.

I generally disagree. The life time of 1st Ed would be unacceptable, but 1st Ed. was a bit of a mess and them basically saying that the rules need to be clearer is a lot better than trying to build on 1st Ed. with more supplements. Stings a bit, but for me this is the best way forward.

**highlord tamburlaine**

From a rules standpoint, it's no worse than what MegaCon are trying to do with Myth.

Both games have a great foundation to work from, but there's lots of little things that can be fixed and clarified that would vastly improve both games.

I really want a better campaign mode. I never tried 1st edition, but reading through it was quite underwhelming.

A few more hours to go!

**Azazelx**

Let's use some context here.

Given that this isn't even 24 hours old, I don't think it's unreasonable for either backers or retail customers to at least expect a PDF of the rules.

From Deadzone update #168

After three waves of shipping, tens of thousands of comments, messages and more man-hours than we can possibly count, the Deadzone Kickstarter is finally closed.
What this means is that we no longer have any more packages to ship, and will no longer be monitoring the comments or messages on Deadzone.

Doubly so since they're still selling all of this on their website, right now.
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/deadzone.html

**idespair**

Mantic are offering some fairly aggressive pricing on the remainder of their 1st edition stock over the next month to help promote the Kickstarter.

Retailers can pick up a bundle of the base game, Nexus PSI, Incursion and Contagion to sell at £64.99, the base price of the core set. Take off the usual third party discount and you're looking at a fair bargain, even if you're just wanting to bulk out scenery and the basic models.

It's obviously of no benefit or consolation to anyone who recently paid full price, but should help to keep some interest until the launch of second edition towards the end of the year.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

Personally I have no issue with the newer/updated rules to Deadzone. Had I paid for the compendium as part of the KS, rather than those that got it free as a high level pledge bonus, I would be rather miffed. Even more so had I bought it at retail like many others have.

As others have mentioned hopefully retail purchasers will get the PDF free too or eventually Mantic just release a free to all download via their website.

That said a little over 5 hours until the Infestation KS kicks off.

**Riquende**

Having paid for the compendium, I am a bit miffed. But only over that.