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 judgedoug wrote:

See, I still disagree. GW has put out awful, simply awful kits for the past few years. The Enforcer aesthetic, for example, is just leagues better than anything in 40k imho. I'm so tired of the terrible, overly busy, nonsensical gak that GW has been releasing. Each release wave they appear to be in competition with their previous month's release for most laughably bad design and execution.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. GW has always had their fair share of misses. It's inevitable given the combination of people's personal aesthetics and the sheer number of kits that they produce. I think the new AdMech stuff is fantastic, particularly the infantry. But, you know - there's an endless stream of excellent sculpts that they have put out since forever ago - with gak mixed in - same as it ever was. And I'm not even someone who buys much of it at all anymore, and you know how much I love GW as a company.

judgedoug wrote:.
It's why I love Mantic's KoW Orcs. They don't look like 90's Kev Adams or Bryan Nelson GW Orcs. They look intelligent and brutal.
...
I don't care for Orx or Deadzone Orx. I'm talking about KoW Orcs. KoW Orc Ax, Greatax, Morax, Gore Riders are well sculpted, wearing manufactured weapons and armor, have excellent muscled proportions, and don't look like hydrocephalic watermelon heads. They look like a real army, marching to war. Everything I love about fantasy Orcs.
GW WHFB Orcs just look stupid. So bad. So, so sooo bad.

With something like "Orcs/Orks/Orx" the aesthetic is skewed. I love Kev and Brian's work and that will never change. Yes, I'll admit that some of that is probably very much a legacy of the models I grew up with, and that the proportions aren't especially realistic (especially on Kev's stuff) but I forgive all that. I think GW's stuff with Orcs (and also Goblins) is so far down it's own path that I don't think it works well to compare them to others' take on creatures also called Orcs and Goblins - because aside from the name, there's little relationship left there. Mantic's take on them is simply the same thing, but with slightly more "realistic" proportions. Which is fine if you're starting fresh, but they don't work for me since I have a big pile of the older ones and the Mantic ones are too similar to be considered wholly different for me. Like, I can have a KoW army of Moria Goblins and LotR Orcs on the same table as an army of GW Orcs and Goblins, because they're different enough for me to consider them as entirely different races and armies using the same army list (in my Rift-worlds-esque KoW land, which will soon have Ancient Greeks sharing tables with Gondor, Griffon-based Basileans, GW Elves acting as WoW's Blood Elves and old-school GW Ogres. Because feth it, that's why.

But yeah, too similar for me.

 darkPrince010 wrote:
Alrighty, now I'm finally seeing value being offered for a sweet spot pledge.

Not saying that you said anything, but it's interesting to contrast this statement with the chorus of voices that declared the KS garbage value after it was two or three days old.

That's because the initial value level was garbage. I don't think many (or indeed any) of us expected it to stay that way. But to pretend that it was $115 worth of value until very recently is silly. That's why we see the fuss about "Fake stretch goals" and the like - when the initial offering is clearly an incomplete product that would/could never sell at retail for the asking price, the "buy-in" is really expected against what the project might at some later stage become, rather than funding what is actually presented on Day 1.

I guess there's enough people that think Naismith is good because he is continually hired by companies and is responsible for nearly every 3up traditional sculpt outside of Perry.

People like to insult Naismith because reasons and because his work can be uneven at times. But mostly because reasons, I think. He's similar to the Perrys in my opinion. A very solid upper-second-tier sculptor.


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 warboss wrote:
Careful, if you keep making fun of Santa Logan and his friends then he'll put you on his grimdark naughty list permanently!

Spoiler:

Brilliant!

And I can see why people talk about the laughable GW aesthetic. I have to admit, that kits like the above tend not to even register to me anymore, since they're so pants-on-head silly. I actually forget that they exist

Yeah, not my conversion but I thought it was quite entertaining that someone took a common joke about a really bad concept for a kit and ran with it.

I'd be proud to have that (version of the) Sleigh model on my shelf.

These last several stretches have really bolstered the Quarantine package.

It's to the point where doubling seems feasible if you like a broad range of options in individual games and not "subbing". Spread the wealth amongst both factions, or clean sweep the new faction.

Hopefully some of those saying it didn't hold value and were pulling last week take another peak. This is where EBs both help and hurt. It's sometimes tough to swallow your pride and re pledge when you HAD the discount. $5 is $5 to some. I'd prefer if they just made the package $113 and shared the discount with everyone no matter when they discovered the project, but that's just me and some might not bother that first day w/o those $5-10 discounts.

I really want to get into plastic kits for the other factions, Steel Warriors and plague in particular who could use some option depth.

I've been wondering if early birds might help retain more pledgers than they turn away, actually. Getting an Early Bird makes you feel like you're getting a "deal," which might make you less inclined to drop your pledge or just go for $1, as you'd lose it. In previous KS campaigns they had incremental $1 discounts for a range of Early Birds, which also meant that they had a large body of pledgers getting the "extra discount."

I know that means other pledgers are NOT getting the extra discount, and that occasioned some griping, but this really didn't seem to hurt Mantic KS campaigns in the past. It also added to the "game" aspect of the KS, in that people without Early Birds would stay on the hunt for one when others dropped them, which kept them tuning in and engaged.

At $5, Early Birds are pretty inconsequential now either way. If they're only going to do $5, they might as well just drop them entirely, as I doubt that minimal savings means much to people on the fence.

________

I'd be surprised if we don't get a Steel Warriors sprue by the end. If this ramps up at all at the finish, there should be enough momentum to fund it, and it was the only other faction represented in the opening video. It looks like they want to get a Veer-myn support weapon / vehicle funded first, but assuming they can do that within this work week, that would seem to finish that faction off. (Unless they're planning another hard plastic sprue for Nightmares. If so, they've been pretty coy about not showing / leaking any renders / concepts in advance. It would also cut against the grain of making the stretch goals for increasingly larger / more powerful units.)

What I'd like to know is if the Veer-myn vehicle will be hard plastic or metal. Right now I'm still in this for Veer-myn, but another large heavy metal piece may make me rethink investing in the faction.

Whatever faction sprues they have already rendered will also be prime candidates for post-campaign pledge manager funding, as we know Mantic wants them done for Warpath. Unlike, say, a one-off Teraton mercenary character, they also are confident that these basic infantry sprues will sell, and that they are essential to the future of their larger franchise.

I think the $5 still helps drive early backers - often enough (or more) to secure the project into fully funded and avoiding the "will it fund? won't it fund?" issues that happen to some other projects.

Right, even the smallest Early Bird serves to motivate people who were going to pledge eventually to pledge as soon as possible, and if carefully structured will push the project into "Fully funded" and possibly extend to the first stretch goal. If you can do this in the first hour, then you've really helped the momentum of the project - people have less reservations about funding, because now they're backing a sure thing that has comfortably funded.

They would be bonkers to do a vehicle in metal, especially in a campaign that's about funding hard plastic - it would probably cost them $15 in raw materials alone! But never say never...

Updated first post.

And holy crap, the Veermyn faction booster is worth almost twice what the Enforcer one is now (retail).

- STRETCH: Free Faction Booster! Choose one of the following:
- Booster: Vermyn - 5 Nightmares ($20), Progenitor ($15), Night Terror ($20) and 2 Shredder ($30)
- Booster: Enforcers - 5 Peacekeepers ($25) and Strider ($20)

Pretre, that's wrong. There's now 2 Veer-Myn booster options.

Booster - 5 Nightmares, Progenitor, Shredder (soon to be 2)
Beast Booster - Brood Mother, Night Terror, 5 Night Crawlers.

Mantic just made a confusing picture. Check the updates if you don't believe me.

Oh crud. Good call. Yeah, I just noticed.
Give me a minute to update.


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Done.


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Oh well, now my pledge is up to $210.

 Taarnak wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

I don't care for Orx or Deadzone Orx. I'm talking about KoW Orcs. KoW Orc Ax, Greatax, Morax, Gore Riders are well sculpted, wearing manufactured weapons and armor, have excellent muscled proportions, and don't look like hydrocephalic watermelon heads.

They are quite literally the same thing at their core (Orcs/Orx).

And they are all gak designs and gak executions. They are low-rent copies of GW Orcs (which I don't particularly like either). Right down to the slap dash equipment, and oddly proportioned heads that grow from their chests.

I know subjectivity and all, but seriously?


Mantic produces a lot (a LOT) of misses, but the KoW Orcs are NOT one of them. They are superior to GW's designs in every aspect.


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 Azazelx wrote:

With something like "Orcs/Orks/Orx" the aesthetic is skewed. I love Kev and Brian's work and that will never change. Yes, I'll admit that some of that is probably very much a legacy of the models I grew up with, and that the proportions aren't especially realistic (especially on Kev's stuff) but I forgive all that. I think GW's stuff with Orcs (and also Goblins) is so far down it's own path that I don't think it works well to compare them to others' take on creatures also called Orcs and Goblins - because aside from the name, there's little relationship left there. Mantic's take on them is simply the same thing, but with slightly more "realistic" proportions. Which is fine if you're starting fresh, but they don't work for me since I have a big pile of the older ones and the Mantic ones are too similar to be considered wholly different for me. Like, I can have a KoW army of Moria Goblins and LotR Orcs on the same table as an army of GW Orcs and Goblins, because they're different enough for me to consider them as entirely different races and armies using the same army list (in my Rift-worlds-esque KoW land, which will soon have Ancient Greeks sharing tables with Gondor, Griffon-based Basileans, GW Elves acting as WoW's Blood Elves and old-school GW Ogres. Because feth it, that's why.

Oh, I was a big Kev Adams fan in the 90's - Orcs were my first WHFB army. I remember experiencing my first style-related disappointment when Brian Nelson took over, I think, with the new Boar Riders. I was like, "hey wait, these guys don't match at all!" At some point in the late 90's I sold that army, though, and never really looked back. Then the LOTR orcs came out and I was like, these are what orcs are supposed to be.
Which is why I love the KoW orc style, and allowed _me_ to start fresh, with a cohesive Orc army with an excellent unified vision. (not counting the later slapdash releases such as the Trolls, bleargh)
It also helps that I love KoW rules so very much that I've just gone crazy with buying armies from various manufacturers. Still got that entire Gamezone Dark Elf army waiting to be painted up as a Thulsa Doom Cult of Set force (with Mierce snakemen)

Way way way off topic, which Greeks are you using? My KoW Greek army is all Vendel/Sgt Major Greeks. They were very fun to paint and have a super distinctive style.

Hm. I will agree that the KoW orc is more... sensible. Doesn't mean I like it better!

Oooh, new Short Story compilation at 2100 backers!

 pretre wrote:
Oooh, new Short Story compilation at 2100 backers!

Will they sell a printed copy this time or will it just be more downloaded garbage that will never compete against clicking onto the Internet?

Would you buy a printed copy? Or are you just saying just to say?

Earth Dragon wrote:
Would you buy a printed copy? Or are you just saying just to say?

Unless they go Black Library on the pricing, I would buy a copy. I set aside money for their Dungeon Saga adventure books, but then they decided not to make printed copies. I would buy and read Bloodstone of Cyrillion in paperback if they ever released it. Rulebooks tend to be pricier and have less fluff to make room for rules, so I would not be as likely to buy those.

I don't even remember getting the first compilation.

Still sore about those Dungeon Saga ones.

Where was the original compilation? I remember some stories interspersed in the Nexus Psi book. Are those the ones?

The original containment protocols compilation is in the back of the hard back compendium it covers 80 pages.

Man, if the ratmen Bubble Chukka is plastic and $5 or even $10 a piece... I will save a lot of money on a huge unit of Ork Mek Gunz.

 judgedoug wrote:

Oh, I was a big Kev Adams fan in the 90's - Orcs were my first WHFB army. I remember experiencing my first style-related disappointment when Brian Nelson took over, I think, with the new Boar Riders. I was like, "hey wait, these guys don't match at all!" At some point in the late 90's I sold that army, though, and never really looked back. Then the LOTR orcs came out and I was like, these are what orcs are supposed to be.
Which is why I love the KoW orc style, and allowed _me_ to start fresh, with a cohesive Orc army with an excellent unified vision. (not counting the later slapdash releases such as the Trolls, bleargh)
It also helps that I love KoW rules so very much that I've just gone crazy with buying armies from various manufacturers. Still got that entire Gamezone Dark Elf army waiting to be painted up as a Thulsa Doom Cult of Set force (with Mierce snakemen)

Orcs were (one of) my first WHFB armies back in 3rd. I also had Dark Elves and Skaven - both of which got sold off at the time, but the Orcs have remained with me since my teen years. I never had the heart to sell them, despite them being mostly unpainted (still) and even when it looked like I'd never play a fantasy game again. Now with KoW, they ain't goin' nowhere. (and yes, the double negative is deliberate!) Anyway, the Mantic Orcs/Orx just don't work for me on the basis of being too similar, and yet too different, while having so many of the older GW ones, while the LotR ones are enough steps away from anything resembling Orcs as a race elsewhere that they're fine.

Did Gamezone ever get around to releasing their other dark elves that they'd previewed? I should look into them again, but plenty to paint in the meantime.

Way way way off topic, which Greeks are you using? My KoW Greek army is all Vendel/Sgt Major Greeks. They were very fun to paint and have a super distinctive style.

I've got a mix for the historicals - a whole lot of Warlord (Immortal) metals and plastics as well as several boxes of Victrix. Also a smattering of Foundry, with more to come. And then there's the "Mythological/Fantasy Greeks" so I've got some Godslayer, lots more Foundry, the Talos from Maelstrom/Mierce before the shenanigans happened, plus minotaurs from a bunch of places. I'd like to get some of Fitz' ones as well. - though it's my wife's army in theory, I get to do all of the painting (so far). Yay.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes, but Mantic is controlling the pacing so oddly. There are several Enforcer set-ups that would a fine 2nd booster for them that would make all those happy that missed the first KS or just ran out of cash.....I really wonder why they hold off.

I'd think daily add-ons this week is how you battle all these projects closing daily.

 DaveC wrote:
The original containment protocols compilation is in the back of the hard back compendium it covers 80 pages.

I very much enjoyed the first one.

Me too, I need MOAR! Just imagine the cookie monster eating a bunch of books full of fluff, *thumbs* this guy.

Sundays progress had me excited to see that goal locked in today but we've been a bit slower than I expected.

Oh well, back to planning my battlezones dropship...

There are things Mantic can do to stimulate the total. Could have easily made that goal. Just not as optimistic this is going have the booming last couple days they feel it will. It'll be unfortunate if one of the factions doesn't get the kit they deserve.

Is your body ready?

Resin for the bubble chucker is disappointing. Hope there's room at the end to revisit that kit!

Yeah, that price tag killed all my interest in it.

I'm guessing the same will happen with this Plague Beast.

Now you see the downside to a no-restic project! These are the tings that restic is best at

So be it!

Death to Mantic's Restic!