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Wait! Before I have 10 people yelling at me simultaneously about how this is ridiculously overpowered, let me make this clear that this is not what it seems. Really, it's because of assault squads in rhinos and drop pods. To me, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason for these guys to be fast attack choices when they are basically just tactical marines with a CCW instead of a bolter. So, this only applies to assault squads that do not have jump packs. My proposition is to have assault squads without jump packs by default, but with outflank. Naturally, the lack of extra movement or re-rollable charge and HOW that jump packs can give would make them 5-10 points cheaper. Jump packs would then be a 1-2pt upgrade per model. This would mean that they would lose outflank, but would gain all the benefits associated with having jump packs. I feel that this would give more variety to assault marines and would justify non-jump pack equipped assault marines being fast attack and not troops.

natpri771 wrote:
Wait! Before I have 10 people yelling at me simultaneously about how this is ridiculously overpowered, let me make this clear that this is not what it seems. Really, it's because of assault squads in rhinos and drop pods. To me, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason for these guys to be fast attack choices when they are basically just tactical marines with a CCW instead of a bolter. So, this only applies to assault squads that do not have jump packs. My proposition is to have assault squads without jump packs by default, but with outflank. Naturally, the lack of extra movement or re-rollable charge and HOW that jump packs can give would make them 5-10 points cheaper. Jump packs would then be a 1-2pt upgrade per model. This would mean that they would lose outflank, but would gain all the benefits associated with having jump packs. I feel that this would give more variety to assault marines and would justify non-jump pack equipped assault marines being fast attack and not troops.

Sweet idea! Get an exalt.
What about also giving them acute senses or even infiltrate?
Just Outflank seems kinda meh for the points.

Anyone who thinks outflank is horribly overpowered is terrible at the game. >.>

Whilst not overpowered, outflank on my flamestorm baals in thel last dex actually handed me a huge advantage, just on deployment: 'Don't want to deploy your units near the board edge because I might reserve my baals? Oh ok clump them in the middle. Before we start, you did read my army list has vindis and podded assault flamer squads right?'
Outflank is used with ravenguard and raptors to get great side/rear shots. Whilst kroot can all of a sudden throw your plans into disarray by clogging up an entire side of the board. Outflank is good!

Bear in mind pod and rhino assault marines get a free rhino or pod for the price of their packs.

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:

Sweet idea! Get an exalt.
What about also giving them acute senses or even infiltrate?
Just Outflank seems kinda meh for the points.

Maybe acute senses, but that would kind of be the thing that would give Space Wolves a big advantage for their blood claws. However, I'm not completely opposed to the idea. However, infiltrate seems to be too stealthy and more of a scout thing for me.

Thanks for the exalt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Anyone who thinks outflank is horribly overpowered is terrible at the game. >.>

Yeah, but you do know some of the more "negative" contributors to the forum (to put it politely), who are extremely stubborn and resistant to change and will decry any attempts by players to improve the game as "overpowered" and "broken" no matter how not broken they are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Whilst not overpowered, outflank on my flamestorm baals in thel last dex actually handed me a huge advantage, just on deployment: 'Don't want to deploy your units near the board edge because I might reserve my baals? Oh ok clump them in the middle. Before we start, you did read my army list has vindis and podded assault flamer squads right?'
Outflank is used with ravenguard and raptors to get great side/rear shots. Whilst kroot can all of a sudden throw your plans into disarray by clogging up an entire side of the board. Outflank is good!

Bear in mind pod and rhino assault marines get a free rhino or pod for the price of their packs.

I mostly agree, but:
a. What about Raven Guard? Also, raptors only get rending on bolt guns, not bolt pistols etc.
b. Like I said, outflank is what I would call a justification for keeping assault marines without jump packs as fast attack choices and not as troops choices

Sorry i wasn't clear - mean side armour shots from their razorbacks (tac squads).
I don't disagree with your idea. At the end of the day marines can get even more board access with pods so it's not exactly a broken suggestion.

Anything to do with Assault Marines isn't about to break the game.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Anything to do with Assault Marines isn't about to break the game.

I read stuff like this and think, "Oh, wait! I'll show him how that unit is viable!" and then I think about it for a minute and think, "Oh, he's right...." Makes me want to cry

On topic, I like this a lot just for the flavor. OP hit the nail on the head about Assault Marines just being tacticals with a CWW.

I think my only complaint, what actually justifies them getting outflank though? As you said, it's a bunch tac marines with CCWs. Why don't tac marines, if you give them a rhino, suddenly gain outflank too? There's just nothing justifying that outflank, and I don't like randomly throwing on a rule.

If you're going to make marines in a rhino into a better fast attack unit, allow them to charge after disembarking, possibly at a disadvantage (reduced charge distance, or lower initiative for a turn, or can't shoot their bolt pistols).

It can be justified that, since they're only focused on getting into CC, they're still able to get a charge on an enemy unit after disembarking. I'd personally take that over outflank anyways, as it means a pretty high chance of getting a turn 2 charge. And turn 2 charge definitely qualifies a unit to be classified as "fast attack".

Play RG chapter traits. Take Korvydae, gives ASM as troops. Take ASM without jump packs to give them scout. Get cheap transport. Outflank if you want too.

Play RG chapter traits. Take Korvydae, gives ASM as troops. Take ASM without jump packs to give them scout. Get cheap transport. Outflank if you want too.