Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.

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**ronin_cse**

ImAGeek wrote:
Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Doom and Gloom.... Doom and Gloom

And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.

I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!

Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....

Just Stay calm.

I genuinely think this is probably worse than most, if not all, of those. And just because Eldar didn't win Adepticon doesn't mean there weren't serious concerns about serpent shields.

I love it when serious concerns are just shrugged off as 'doom and gloom' 'the sky is falling' etc.

I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.

To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me

Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.

**Accolade**

Let's see if Eldar can do to 40k what Daemons did to WHFB.

**ImAGeek**

The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.

I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.

**Mr.Church13**

Mantle wrote:
Think I'll pick up the codex and attempt to make an army probably with the CAD that includes my favourite units such as Rangers and scorpions and just pretty much ignore the strength D stuff, I like wraith units but I really couldn't bare to put them on the table now, I don't play competitively so there's no need to maximise my list, I feel really sorry for the people who genuinely like iyanden and have bought armies to show that. Now the dyeing craft world of the dyeing race is going to be the most populous in every competitive environment.
GW should have stuck with the supplements for sub factions, released one for alaitoc with new Rangers, released one for saim-hann with new jetbikes and when it came to updating the core codex released a supplement for biel-tan with plastic aspects along side it with rules that had you play a fluffy army but buffs to the units so it still made taking them more often as a viable option, more balanced game, plenty of options, more new kits, more happy fans.

I painted ALOT of yellow, most of which I'd feel genuinely bad for putting on the table with this ruleset. Honestly I think I'm gonna stick with the 6th Ed dex and just use the new bikes with that. At least people will still play my Iyanden if I do it that way.

**Warhams-77**

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Doom and Gloom.... Doom and Gloom

And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.

I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!

Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....

Just Stay calm.

Thanks for this post. Exactly what I think

**Oaka**

With this new codex, the game is no longer a beer and pretzel game, but rather a weekend hallucinogenic binge where you really have no idea what you purchased, and have no recollection if you even rolled any dice.

**ClassicCarraway**

TheNewBlood wrote:

Fine. My bad. Not familiar with his track record.

If what he is saying is true, then Eldar will be to 7th edition 40k what Chaos Demons were to 7th edition Fantasy.

I mean seriously, some of those formation bonuses make the Decurion seem tame. The Wraithknight is ridiculously undercosted. It should be almost 400 points, not 295!

Still, we haven't seen everything.

Dude needs to post pictures of the offending pages for me to believe.

No, its simply a continuation of the Eldar trend. Eldar were mainly broken in 6th after their codex came out. GW, trying to be considerate to the Eldar players, just maintained the status quo. Same for Necrons, just continuing the trend from 6th.

What stuns me is, for a mere 20 points more than the T6 5 wound Bloodthirster w/the St D melee that always strikes at I1, Eldar get a T8, 6 wound GMC with St D melee at I5. This just confirms that GW truly HATES all things Chaos, and doesn't leave me feeling too good about any future Chaos related releases.

Even bigger joke related to this and Chaos? 888 points buys a giant Lord of Battle target for your shiny new 295 point WK to tee off on and destroy turn 1!!! Why? Because GW thought it was cute to make the Khorne Lord of War the magic Khorne number. This crap just really turns me off from the game, and I'm usually pretty pro-GW.

**Talys**

ronin_cse wrote:

I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.

To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me

Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.

This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.

**ClassicCarraway**

If Codex: Necrons was "Codex: Buy Destroyer Weapons", and Codex: Khorne Daemonkin was "Codex: Buy a Bloodthirster", what is Codex: Craftworld Eldar?

My vote is "Codex: Buy Another Game"

**Talys**

ImAGeek wrote:
The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.

I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.

Surely you jest. Half the models are ancient. Guardians, are horrible. Rangers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, Howling Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Avatar, Warlocks, are finecast. Every HQ unit other than a single Farseer is resin or metal. Vypers look like crud versus their Dark Eldar counterparts. Vaul's Wrath look like they were designed in the 90's. I guess War Walkers and Dire Avengers look ok.

The only to tier models are Wraith models, hemlocks and the Fire Prism/Night Spinner/Falcon (which are essentially the same model). Oh yes, and Wave Serpents

**Leth**

Ehh, Outside of bikes most of it looks alright.

Most tournaments have a hard LOW limit of one. Just because its in a decurion style does not mean it changes slots.

Hawks are kinda cool, looks like aspects might actually see some table time!! That is exciting, glad to see wave serpents toned down.

Alright, will have to wait and see overall but its not looking too bad. I bring AV 13 so bikes dont scare me much. Wraithknight is either shooting or CC D attacks not both. Auto 6 on run is pretty powerful, still losing OS is a rough hit.

Will have to see how lists shake out

**pm713**

What's happened to Hawks to make them different?

**MrFlutterPie**

Talys wrote:
ronin_cse wrote:

I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.

To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me

Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.

This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.

Sister players would love to have a conversation about being nerfed. No AA, flyers, only 1 generic HQ (which sucks!) and a single troop choice and a elite section that isn't worth taking. Plus we only have met blah blah blah blah. Oh look I think the clock just reset

**RED EYE JEDI**

The new Eldar codex has been nerfed look at the cover It's a warlock !

the last codex was a farseer, the codex has taken a nerf

**Hollismason**

Again if anyone wants to sell their army I'm buying.

**ClassicCarraway**

Leth wrote:
Ehh, Outside of bikes most of it looks alright.

Most tournaments have a hard LOW limit of one. Just because its in a decurion style does not mean it changes slots.

Hawks are kinda cool, looks like aspects might actually see some table time!! That is exciting, glad to see wave serpents toned down.

Alright, will have to wait and see overall but its not looking too bad. I bring AV 13 so bikes dont scare me much. Wraithknight is either shooting or CC D attacks not both. Auto 6 on run is pretty powerful, still losing OS is a rough hit.

Will have to see how lists shake out

Yes, but you seem to be forgetting the Wraithguard, Hemlock, and artillery have St D weapons as well. True, the d-scythes aren't AS nasty, but still, D3 wounds on a 3+ is a singificant boost over their original S4 Distort. A single 1850 CAD could have a WK, 3 5-man units of WG in wave serpents, a Hemlock, and at least one BATTERY of the D-cannon artillery. That is an insane amount of mostly durable ranged D in a standard game.

**Byte**

Any rumors on the Wave Serpent?

**Nevelon**

pm713 wrote:
What's happened to Hawks to make them different?

Hawks: 16/model, they move 18", and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire

That’s the leak on them.

**Talys**

Since I don't see it linked above... here is the latest from BoLS (based on the same fella with the actual codex on Warseer):

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-rules-tidalwave.html

The first batch of first hand codex rules reports are in! OH MY what the Eldar have become! +++UPDATED+++

Iuchiban has verified with cover pics that he has a copy of Codex Eldar Craftworlds in hand. This stuff is almost certainly correct:

via Iuchiban 4-17-2015

Ok. Let’s go.
All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.

Step by step.
Banshees add +3″ when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no “chapter tactics”.

Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24″. Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24″
3: Will of Asuryan: 12″ bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5″ blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24″, Haywire, wounds 2+
Names may be different in the English version. (I own the Spanish one).

Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.

No changes on Battle focus of the bladestorm rule. No hints on the Iyanden codex

(Wraithknight) Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
(The Wraithknight’s Heavy Wraithcannons) Is the equipment by default.

(Jetbikes) 17/model, every model can purchase one scatter laser or shuriken cannon for +10 points

(Wraithknight Suncannon) Sun (Sorry for the “solar”) remains the same.

(Wave) Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.

Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6″, F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.

Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.

Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.

Scorpions: 17/model, Infiltration, Stealth, and Shrouded until they fire or fight in combat
Warp Spiders: 19/model Monofilament rule has changed.They roll to wound against I, although the T is still used to calculate ID.
Hawks: 16/model, they move 18″, and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire

(Wraithguard) Cost is the same.
(Regards to Autarchs and Swooping Hawk “no scatter”) Basically the same.
(Squadrons of Falcons/Fire Prisms/Night Spinners) YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4″.
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Night Spinners: +1S for each Night spinner
(Serpent Shield) Nop, only 24″ (range)
(Eldar Warhost Detachment) The main bonus of the Warhost is that they always run 6″.
(Serpent Shield Defence) When working as a shield, it works as before.
Falcon can DS only if taken in a unit of 3.

Guardians: Same
Dire avengers: They overwatch with BS2
Avatar is LoW, but mainly the same
I cannot see any psyker being able to get malefic daemonology

Formation rules:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18″ or less from spiritser, reroll to hit

(Warp Spider guns) Why is that? You still have S6. Target needs to have I6 to wound him on 4+.
(Dire Avengers Troops) Yes, they are.

Before leaving I will post the list of special ítems:
– A pistol S4, AP3, Rending
– A sword +2S, AP- Rending and if fighting in a challenge, wounds on 2+ and Instant Death
– One sniper rifle, AP2, 120″
– One ítem that if bearer does not cast any phychic power, or shots during the shooting phase, he can run 48″ and may reroll cover saves.
– One sword +1S, AP3, Soulblaze (affects wounded unit and all enemy units at 6″)
– One ítem that when bearer diez, 5″ template is placed and all models suffer one S4, AP5 hit. If at least, one wound is infflicted, bearer comes back to life, with 1W. One use only
– One ítem that makes psyhic powers required 1 WC less. No inv saves if done so.

**ashikenshin**

Me being the only eldar player in my group, I love this!

I certainly won't buy bikes (don't own any) and will continue to use my two serpents with guardians and dire avengers.

No longer will my hemlock wraith fighter will be laughed at

**pm713**

Nevelon wrote:
pm713 wrote:
What's happened to Hawks to make them different?

Hawks: 16/model, they move 18", and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire

That’s the leak on them.

Thanks. That's a pretty good improvement in my opinion.

**Garion**

ronin_cse wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Doom and Gloom.... Doom and Gloom

And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.

I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!

Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....

Just Stay calm.

I genuinely think this is probably worse than most, if not all, of those. And just because Eldar didn't win Adepticon doesn't mean there weren't serious concerns about serpent shields.

I love it when serious concerns are just shrugged off as 'doom and gloom' 'the sky is falling' etc.

I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.

To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me

Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.

I'm also the only Eldar player in my gaming group. The last book "forced" me to came up with list that were not a wave serpent spam or something like that cause I wanted the game to remain fun for all the guys. And it was actually fun building list like that. This new book will be the same. I can see a lot of fun and fluffy builds already

**MrFlutterPie**

RED EYE JEDI wrote:
The new Eldar codex has been nerfed look at the cover It's a warlock !

the last codex was a farseer, the codex has taken a nerf

Yeah but this one has a higher page count making it heavier. Should be useful for beating down the belligerent whiners who don't know how to play the game and won't bother to learn

I'm totally coming up with a Ork hard counter right now. Wouldn't want my manhood challenged over not being able to beat so much cheese that even France is like "Damn!" .

**Orrus**

So....
If someone fielded:

- Farseer / Autarch

- Wraithblades with axe+shield as bodyguard (now have rage)

- 2 squads of about 8 Dire avengers in wave serpents (SCs)
- 2 squads of 3 jetbikes with 1 SL in each squad
- 5 Rangers

- 6 Spiders
- 6 Hawks
- 5 Shining Spears

- 3 War Walkers with scatter lasers
- Wraithlord with 2x BL

and maybe some banshees or scorps....

Would you guys play that force?

**Talys**

MrFlutterPie wrote:

Sister players would love to have a conversation about being nerfed. No AA, flyers, only 1 generic HQ (which sucks!) and a single troop choice and a elite section that isn't worth taking. Plus we only have met blah blah blah blah. Oh look I think the clock just reset

Yes, by the metric of old crappy models getting the best rules, Sisters should be the most powerful faction in the game

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orrus wrote:
So....
If someone fielded:

- Farseer / Autarch

- Wraithblades with axe+shield as bodyguard (now have rage)

- 2 squads of about 8 Dire avengers in wave serpents (SCs)
- 2 squads of 3 jetbikes with 1 SL in each squad
- 5 Rangers

- 6 Spiders
- 6 Hawks
- 5 Shining Spears

- 3 War Walkers with scatter lasers
- Wraithlord with 2x BL

and maybe some banshees or scorps....

Would you guys play that force?

Why not? That doesn't abuse anything at all. But TBH, I'd play anything once, even new ranged D WK spam. If it got too silly, I'd just ask them to tone it down.

**akwing00**

Any mention if they can remove perils of the warp for a warp charge still?

**Vaktathi**

Talys wrote:
ronin_cse wrote:

I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.

To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me

Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.

This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.

Only for a handful of infantry units.

And have you seen some of the IG models? You pretty much have to go FW or 3rd party for half-decent looking models much of the time. Even many of their newer kits are awful looking.

This is to say nothing of Rough Riders so atrocious that GW squatted them for their 20th anniversary

**ronin_cse**

ImAGeek wrote:
The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.

I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.

Well when I am asking about the meta that PEOPLE PLAY IN and you don't play the game, it does kind of invalidate what you say about the meta.

**Accolade**

ronin_cse wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.

I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.

Well when I am asking about the meta that PEOPLE PLAY IN and you don't play the game, it does kind of invalidate what you say about the meta.

Don't worry ImAGeek, you'd still be wrong even if you played. Because you made a negative comment about 40k, so you are automatically wrong. And a whiner. Deal with it.

**mortetvie**

Outside of D-Scythes, I really don't see Eldar being game breaking. Even then, the D-Scythes not getting the "6" result and only effective on a 3+ seems pretty decent. Distort weapons finally live up to their name sake. I am still not a fan of the "6" result on the destroyer table but aside from that, the codex doesn't seem that bad.

Regarding Wraith Knights:

Poisoned/sniper no longer being a reliable means to take them down along with FNP makes them very survivable but pretty much every army still has a way of dealing with them. I don't know about anyone else but I've been able to take down 2-3 Wraith Knights with my armies via shooting, psychic powers (psychic Shriek terrifies my Wraithknights) and close combat.Their ranged weapons being D makes them better at hunting other big things but that is all, really-2 potentially super dead things with good dice shouldn't make or break your game. Especially now that they are generally limited to 1 per army in a competitive setting-they are not that big of a deal. Of course I refer to ITC formats. I don't even think the world wolf power from the old SW dex drew this much of a reaction.

As a side note, I have a friend that loves to take 50 conscripts, cast misfortune on something (makes attacks against target rending) then cast prescience on Conscripts and I think he can even give them re-roll wounds against MCs... That is going to destroy a Wraithknight for a fraction of the cost lol. I only use this example to say that rending is still a viable means to deal with Wraith Knights.

Regarding Wraithguard:
Wraith blades should have had 2 attacks base IMO but rage helps a bit, I made good use of a unit of 8 Wraith Blades in my past GT events and managed to finish in top 3 with this unit playing a large part. Glad they got SOME attention. Losing troops status hurts but we'll see what happens when the full dex is out.

Wraithguard with D-Cannons still kill what they shoot at... Now they kill it even more if they get that lucky 6? One unit of 10 should put out maybe 1-2 6s at best on average dice and that is only really scary to other really big things which get too close, Wraithguard still need to get to their target and that can be mitigated with bubble wrap tactics or interceptor.

Wraithguard with D-Scythes will be very mean but in the end, they only do their damage on a 3+ and no dreaded 6 result... Again, only really scary to vehicles/MCs/high T models as D-Scythes already pretty much erased whatever they hit.

Regarding Jetbikes:

Yes they got a boost with being able to all take heavy weapons but people will find that these bikes are still going to die just as easily as they ever did before... Honestly, in my experience with playing as them and against them, they are not going to be "game-breaking." They only really look scary when you play mathhammer.

regarding Serpents:
Well, they seem to have been brought down in power level, they still have survivability thanks to their shield but no more Pew Pew up to Wazoo which was a bit much.

Overall:

Yes, these are just my opinions but they are based on my experience in playing with and against Eldar and pretty much any cheese that ever existed in 40k. Eldar will still struggle against flyers/flying MCs IMO and it will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming tournaments.