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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 07:56:55
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Chaospling wrote:I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.
But this is fluffy
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 08:27:24
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Missionary On A Mission
Australia
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Chaospling wrote:I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.
Nah, that is how it is written. I misread it it initially. The intent may or may not have been to only apply it to challenges, but it is quite literally written so that any character with the Blood for the Blood God! rule that is slain generates a Blood Tithe point.
Actually, the other thing I just noticed - there's no restriction to 'friendly units only' generating Blood Tithe. If two Demonkin armies were fighting each other, the Blood for the Blood God! rule is worded such that both players would be earning Blood Tithe for any unit that kills or is killed. By that I mean if Player A's CSM squad killed Player B's Cultist squad, both players would generate 3 Tithe each - 1 for a unit destroying an enemy unit, 1 for a character being slain, and 1 for a unit being completely destroyed. Khorne will be pleased
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 08:27:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 08:28:40
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hahaha that kind of makes sense.
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DFTT |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 09:23:49
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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We should also think about the possibilities of using the seven formations in any mix outside the Blood Host. As the restriction of maximum one Lord of Slaughter formation per Slaughter Cult only applies to the Blood Host detachment, we can have a Battle Forged army with any number of Blood Thirsters and War Engines - though the obvious advantages from the Blood Host or Slaughter Cult are lost.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 09:24:56
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Are we sure about this? I'm all over no force org maulers ,but got the impression they were for blood host only.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 09:42:50
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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I got it from: "If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied Detachments. Note that you can also include any of the Formations presented in this section as part of a Battle-forged army."
Though it goes on and explains about the Blood Host detachment but I don't get the impression, that the formations are restricted only to that detachment, just that if you combine the formations in a certain mix, then you got yourself a Blood Host detachment and can enjoy certain benefits.
Edit: Grammar.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 09:44:07
Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 09:44:54
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Thanks GoonBandito for taking the time to answer all these questions.
I have another question - are Icons (both the CSM kind and Daemon kind) any different?
I mainly want to know if the Daemon icons still only work to reduce the scatter of Daemons of Khorne
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 09:47:14
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:18:58
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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No icons? Well that's a bit naff! Automatically Appended Next Post: Especially as all my guys are modelled with icons...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 10:19:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:27:39
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Chaospling wrote:There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.
So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:33:34
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Missionary On A Mission
Australia
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Chaospling wrote:We should also think about the possibilities of using the seven formations in any mix outside the Blood Host. As the restriction of maximum one Lord of Slaughter formation per Slaughter Cult only applies to the Blood Host detachment, we can have a Battle Forged army with any number of Blood Thirsters and War Engines - though the obvious advantages from the Blood Host or Slaughter Cult are lost.
The "War Engine" Auxiliary and the "Lord of Slaughter" Command choices for the Blood Host Detachment aren't actually Formations though - you can only take them as part of the Blood Host.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captyn_Bob wrote:No icons? Well that's a bit naff!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially as all my guys are modelled with icons...
Cheexsta wrote:Chaospling wrote:There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.
So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(
The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+ d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/27 10:36:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:39:50
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ok not too bad. No infinite maulerfiends ...was a brief dream...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:45:18
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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GoonBandito wrote:Cheexsta wrote:Chaospling wrote:There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.
So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(
The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+ d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.
Thanks for the clarification. One last thing, though - does the scatterless deep strike apply to any friendly deep striking unit, or just to Daemons of Khorne?
I guess what I'm asking is whether the Banner of Blood can be used to bring in Terminators without scatter.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:49:09
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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@GoonBandito: Makes sense - thanks for clarifying this.
Still, I could see the Gore Pack easily being used with other codices and if they earn some Blood Points on their own, it's just good.
Warp Talons has become slightly more expensive because of the Mark and Daemon of Khorne, but this mean that they possibly can Deep Strike in without scatter and hopefully hit several units with the Blind attack and that both their Hammer of Wrath and normal attacks the turn they charge are at Strength 5 - will this change anything for you?
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 10:56:37
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The ability to hit them the legacy of Armageddon is nice too... Still not sold.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 10:57:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 11:10:19
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Missionary On A Mission
Australia
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Cheexsta wrote: GoonBandito wrote:Cheexsta wrote:Chaospling wrote:There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.
So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(
The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+ d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.
Thanks for the clarification. One last thing, though - does the scatterless deep strike apply to any friendly deep striking unit, or just to Daemons of Khorne?
I guess what I'm asking is whether the Banner of Blood can be used to bring in Terminators without scatter.
Only affects units comprised entirely of models with the Demon rule, just like the Codex: Chaos Demon ones. Terminators are out of luck unfortunately. Though Chaospling is right in that you could at least precision deep strike Warp Talons in off a Banner of Blood and hope their Blind attack thing keeps them alive from the enemy unit they are next to.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 11:12:37
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Even though I'm sad with some rules (scatter within 6" of a CSM banner, possessed tax for blood host) the book seems really funny.
I'm going to try this first list sunday (2000 pts) :
Slaughtercult
- Blood Throne (Hatred Loci, Sword that gives +1 Blood Tithe) 190
- 8 Bloodletters (Banner) 100
- 8 Bloodletters (Banner) 100
- 5 Possessed 150
- 8 cultists 58
- 8 cultists 58
Gorepack
- 8 Bikers (2 melta, Icon of Wrath, Axe of Khorne, Meltabomb) 261
- 8 Bikers (2 melta, Icon of Wrath, Axe of Khorne, Meltabomb) 261
- 8 Flesh Hounds
- 8 Flesh Hounds
War Engine
- Maulerfiend 130
- Maulerfiend 130
HQ
- Wrath of Khorne
The goal is to keep the Blood Throne in the middle of the Gorepack to give Hatred. Cultists are doomed to die of course, Bloodletters with Banner so reinforcement do not scatter. Wrath of Khorne so it can fly and still be usefull with its Blood Flail and template weapon until it can land when everything is close combat.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/27 12:16:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 11:56:25
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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Strange... The Destroyer Vehicle Equipment is not in the book either. Automatically Appended Next Post: @ondskapt: The Cultists are 58 points each - don't know if this was calculated correctly into your overall result...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 12:06:10
Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 12:18:19
Subject: Re:Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fresh-Faced New User
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@Chaospling
Yep, I forgot to add the Champion ... Well, I removed the Instrument that were useless anyway. Thanks !
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 12:19:36
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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@ondskapt: You might also want to include Blood Reapers in your Bloodletter squads - that's 5 points for a Blood Point when he's killed and the possibility to kill more characters in challenges.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 13:27:49
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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What does the army list entry say verbatim for Chaos Lord and selecting Relics? or Gifts of Khorne?
The entry I saw for the page with the Relics just says one per army.
Is the restriction in the Army Listing?
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 15:11:47
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Its like with Black legion or CSM, you exchange one of your weapons for one of the artifacts, it doesn't say that you can't have more then one artifact on a character though, also there is a distinction of what i've saw between the weapons artifacts and the non-weapons ones.
So basically if i've got this, its 2 Weapons in exchange for the ccw and pistol and one non weapon artifact like the helm, the rune or the armor.
So a DPrinces can have a Weapon and an armor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 15:23:53
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Morphing Obliterator
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That'll be sweet, EW FnP FMC DP, hope he makes it into combat
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CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 15:27:43
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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If that's true that you can take multiple artefacts, then that makes Juggerlord super awesome.
6 generates another attack with 7 attacks on the charge. Hell yes.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 17:06:56
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Dakka Veteran
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Ah guys
"...A model may take one of the following:
*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.
A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:
*The three weapon artefacts are listed."
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 17:42:49
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What idiot thought that an icon of wrath on possessed was worth20 points. It does almost nothing Automatically Appended Next Post: I know the internet always argues this but it's really clear to me that you can only take one artefact per model.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 17:43:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 18:07:22
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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Chaospling wrote:Ah guys
"...A model may take one of the following:
*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.
A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:
*The three weapon artefacts are listed."
This is good, this is very good.
Chaos Lord on Jugger Naught , w/ Sigil , Sword that gets better, Helm of Hit on 6s get another attack.
3 Blood Points to get FNP and RAGE.
Yes, yes I do like.
Now you gotta figure out how to get him Hatred and he's good to go.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 18:08:15
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 18:15:31
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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What do you think of just taking a chaos lord on a jetpack, take the "axe of bloodthirster summon" and just bumrush the enemy?
Even a watered down thirster that you get is good when it costed you half the usual (via suicidal HQ), and he will either do some damage, or get himself killed, at the very least you get a blood point off him, and either distract a unit's shooting or actually hitting something before the thirster spawns.
Minimum 1 blood point off the deal too. more if he actually manages to kill anything (or get into a challenge)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 18:16:52
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 18:16:51
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Morphing Obliterator
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Hollismason wrote:Chaospling wrote:Ah guys
"...A model may take one of the following:
*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.
A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:
*The three weapon artefacts are listed."
This is good, this is very good.
Chaos Lord on Jugger Naught , w/ Sigil , Sword that gets better, Helm of Hit on 6s get another attack.
3 Blood Points to get FNP and RAGE.
Yes, yes I do like.
Now you gotta figure out how to get him Hatred and he's good to go.
He means you CAN'T take 2 relics, you have the option to get one of the non-weapon items IF you don't then you are allowed to replace a weapon Automatically Appended Next Post: BoomWolf wrote:What do you think of just taking a chaos lord on a jetpack, take the "axe of bloodthirster summon" and just bumrush the enemy?
Even a watered down thirster that you get is good when it costed you half the usual (via suicidal HQ), and he will either do some damage, or get himself killed, at the very least you get a blood point off him, and either distract a unit's shooting or actually hitting something before the thirster spawns.
Minimum 1 blood point off the deal too. more if he actually manages to kill anything (or get into a challenge)
The BT axe is actually pretty bad. If you are intentionally trying to get him killed, being on his own with a jetpack, he'll proably die on turn 2 due to range and cover, IIRC in 40k is your opponent asks you the wargear you need to tell him what it is equipped with. So assuming he does shoots at him and he dies at Turn 2, It'll deep strike in flight mode Turn 2, switch to ground Turn 3, Get a charge on Turn 4, assumming you moved 12" when he was a lord, 6" fwd due to the summon, changing flight modes to jump pack would be another 12", so you are 30" away from your deployment zone in turn 4.
You got Turn 4 & 5 (assuming he live through the shots and his own D3 wounds) to fight in CC for sure. I rather have a good HQ for the whole game and look for the BT as a blood tithe reward instead
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 18:24:51
CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/27 21:06:15
Subject: Codex: Khorne Demonkin - ask away
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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That Blood thirster Axe is garbage. Enjoy summoning it then it rolling 3 wounds, then dying to fire.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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