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wtnind wrote:
If you have a helbrute and want to run it then take a helcult (see hellbrute dataslate).

This gives it rage and 3+ cover save (when cultists are close by) and gives the cultists fearless. Then if the brute dies the cultists also gain hatred.

Only down side is loosing objective secured, not filling your troops minimum and the brute having a kharn style backswing.

If you 'accidentally' have 5 helbrutes, run murderpack - they're doing great!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Fire Raptors. They will decimate units and flyers.

 Drasius wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Well the Defiler has IWND, Soulblaze and usually +1 attack going for it which is nice.

The defiler also costs ~200 points, and IWND doesn't matter when you die in 1 round because you're AV12 and Spamming Str 6/7 in copious quantities is the new black.

No one cares about soul blaze and +1 attacks at WS 3 doesn't mean much, especially when you're destroyed before you get there.

Dreadnaughts with good weapons like an assault cannon or multimelta are bad and they're almost half the price. What on earth makes you think defilers are good? They are the 2nd worst unit in the codex (after mutilators), though warp talons would give them a run for their money.

4HP with 5++ is statistically 6HP without any save. Add IWND, and thats almost 7HP...more than a superheavy. Yes, only AV12 but your theory of S6/7 killing it in one turn is ridiculous. First off, all S6/7 weapons I know of arent AP1 or 2, so there is no way they can "get lucky" and cause an explodes result - they have to get rid of ALL hullpoints. Secondly, a S6 weapon hit has 16.66% chance of glancing AV12. So say a BS4 Scatter laser fires; its gonna do about 0.3 HPs damage.

So you need 13 Scatterlasers (or 52 BS4 S6 shots) all firing at once to insta-kill a Defiler in one turn.

As to the cost...I know Soulgrinders are better than Defilers because they can deepstrike and have 13/13/11, but that doesnt mean Defilers are bad. A Soulgrinder may look like it's 70 points cheaper on paper, but the usual configuration (phlegm cannon + nurgle or flamer + slaanesh) will bring it upto 170-180 points, so the points difference isnt that much anymore.

Still at the end of the day the SG is a different faction, and it would be silly to compare unit points costs from different factions with one another. In the CSM armory, I can only see the Vindicator as direct competition to the Defiler. The Vindicator can obliterate terminators and do a better job at cracking open tanks, and is much cheaper, but usually easier to kill due to fewer HPs and no defence mechanism, also if someone gets into cc-with it it's over, and due to its short range people can stay out of its reach, meaning you just blew 125 points into doing nothing for your army at all.

I'm sure all of that works, but personally, I find that I prefer Maulerfiends.
No, don't laugh!
They're very fast, and deadly when they reach melee (they basically instakill any tanks in 1 turn, and generally cripple Monoliths and the like - making them useless and making their points back threefold in a single round of combat).

I don't actualy expect them to ever get into melee (that's just a very nice bonus): instead, they simply try to distract to other player from your Nugle Mace Prince, BikerStar with sorcerer and lord; or even Be'Lakor.

It's hard to get right, but hilarious when it works (3 Maulerfiends are still about as cheap as any of the other three): yes, MSU with tanks! Combine this with an invisible greater brass scorpion, and you'll quickly realise that Maulerfiends are invaluable and one of the top Heavy Support Choices.

Tau Plasma rifles are Str 6 AP2, Imperial Plasma guns are Str 7 AP2, Dark Eldar Heat lance is Str 6 AP2 Melta, Eldar Sun cannons are Str 6 AP2, Focused Fire prism is Str 7 Ap 2 and then you've got actual anti-tank weapons like Lascannons and melta and such that obliterate one from across the board. Not that AP2 matters on Str 6 guns, but you did ask.

A single broadside team with HYMP and tank hunter will put 4.32 hull points on AV12 in a single round with 2 markerlight after saves. Not exactly an uncommon sight.

3 wave serpents will put a touch over 4 HP on an AV 12 vehicle after saves in a single round, again, not an uncommon sight. Not to mention the Fragons they could be holding.

How about Suicide sternguard? 8 with combi meltas should pop you after saves. Again, not uncommon. Hell, 10 sternies with plasma have a not unreasonable chance of popping you after saves.

The Soul Grinder and the Defiler are both in the same slot in the Daemonkin book actually, so we can compare them directly. The Defiler is a stinker of epic proportions, doing the same job as a Grinder but worse is virtually every way. It's not the deepstrike that helps the Grinder, it's the 13/12/11 and skyfire with the option to take the battle cannon or not while still being reasonably costed that makes it a good choice. There's a huge difference when krak granades can no longer hurt you in CC, especially when they're hitting you on 3's and going before you.

It realy depends on what you feel is good ! You alredy like the best mark , Nurgle iz the strongest in curent edition ! You want Typhus Awesome do you like zombies ? becous you can put him in a huge blob of undead and march like that ! and you dont need landraider than . Also Bikers of nurgle and lord on bike with mark of nurgle ! can help you out if youl go fast in tto your oponent face id go witeh moulerfiends and obliterators ! for heavy support . if you want to sit back and relax , move to middle to fight , than Forghefinds, and predators (i think pred is beter than havoc this edition)

 Sir Arun wrote:

4HP with 5++ is statistically 6HP without any save. Add IWND, and thats almost 7HP...more than a superheavy.

You can have million HP - it won't save you from a power fist, plasma or melta. Also, a single immobilize and you're just a battlecannon for 200 pt.

The same problem that orkanaughts and landraiders face. It's as easy to get them down in one go with dedicated AT weapons as if they were rhinos.