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Would any of you field/play against the Darktalon if the Stasis Bomb was changed to:

Vast Stasis Anomaly: Any unit covered by more then 25% of the blast is treated as being out sync with reality. Units partially covered, receive a -3 penalty to its Weapon Skill, Ballistic skill, and Initiative. Units over 25% covered (Friendly or not) cannot be the targets of any spells, attacks, abilities and cannot inflict or receive any form of damage. On opposing player subsequent turn, roll a D6. Units return to normal on a 6+. This roll reduces by 2 per each failed roll.

Thoughts, ideas, feedback?

If the unit hit is completely untargetable and cannot be damaged, what is the value in reducing its stats?

Scenario 1

Pie plate lands on a group of 5 enemy terminators. 75% of the unit is covered by said pie plate. All terminators are now in the phantom zone and cannot do anything.

Scenario 2

Pie plate lands on a group of 5 terminators and scatters hitting only 1 model (20%) the entire unit now has a handicap.

How do you measure a percentage of the blast?

Based on models. So if the blast hits 8/10 marines then it'll be 80% if it hits 3/5 terminators then it's 60% etc.

Even worse imo.
It basically cuts of 1/5th to 1/6th of the units effectiveness - temporarily.
Yes, it can remove a deathstar for one turn - but it's the old issue of a band aid vs a fix.
I actually would want to scatter the bomb off as I then can easily kill it off in close quarters, neutered it's shooting down to BS1 most likely and remove the threat permanently.

Wait, so what you're saying is that I need to intentionally make it scatter so that I only cover less than 25% of a unit? Meaning against any small unit it's nearly impossible unless it scatters directly away and only covers one model? Why are we making a weapon that's so difficult to get a good effect from it? It's a large blast, meaning if it doesn't scatter and their squad is fully spread out you'll hit at least 2.... and hitting those two means you can't touch the entire unit for up to 3 turns, which means it's literally only good against a unit that isn't near an objective and doesn't need to be killed during the game.

The only purpose this could possibly serve is if the enemy has a unit that would nearly be impossible for you to kill in the entire game, and if said unit wasn't near an objective. Unless we're saying I can use it against a titan.....

So, I take it that it's not a good idea. Well, what do you guys think would be a good fix for the unit's lack of utility?

Personally, I think that it's a good idea but really poor execution as is.

Well, I genuinely can't come up with many good ideas for it, only criticize other ideas people have had

I don't know, I originally thought it should have pinning or strikedown or something along those lines, or just straight up make the unit unable to move, or even just unable to charge, but people didn't like that idea either. Maybe add that it reduces toughness by 1 or 2? Or make the effective last multiple turns, disabling a unit for 2 or 3 turns is a lot more meaningful than something that can be used once per game to do something that lasts a single turn.

The idea of a black stealth bomber dropping a bomb (even if it's just one) behind enemy lines and crippling enemy units is awesome! I'd love for it to kill any model but if the unit is there to kidnap/cripple any opposing model, there got to be a better way rather than just reduce WS and initiative by 3 till the end of the turn.
I just picture the scenario of dropping it on a group of Ultramarine terminators with power fists and them going "What just happened?"
Sure you can now hit them with a 66% chance instead of a 50% chance but not much else and for the points...WHY? WHY WOULD GW THINK I WOULD BUY/TAKE multiples of these?! Now if it can reduce WS/BS/I by 3 for the game that's a different story. That Chapter master that talked smack about the Lion can't even walk straight let alone be any threat.

 Inkubas wrote:
The idea of a black stealth bomber dropping a bomb (even if it's just one) behind enemy lines and crippling enemy units is awesome! I'd love for it to kill any model but if the unit is there to kidnap/cripple any opposing model, there got to be a better way rather than just reduce WS and initiative by 3 till the end of the turn.
I just picture the scenario of dropping it on a group of Ultramarine terminators with power fists and them going "What just happened?"
Sure you can now hit them with a 66% chance instead of a 50% chance but not much else and for the points...WHY? WHY WOULD GW THINK I WOULD BUY/TAKE multiples of these?! Now if it can reduce WS/BS/I by 3 for the game that's a different story. That Chapter master that talked smack about the Lion can't even walk straight let alone be any threat.

Wait, it only decreases WS and I, not BS too? WHHHHYYYYY!???? I never use the piece of junk so didn't even realize that it was even worse than I already thought it was. Especially if we're looking at hitting like guardsmen or tau or something, they literally won't even care because they're dead in melee anyways.

But yeah, if the effect lasted all game I'd definitely run it. That's a squad that is decently weakened in assault, especially if it drops them to hit the same time fists hit, even better if they make it reduce BS too. Something that is intended to be our big doomsday bomb shouldn't be shrugged off by 90% of the stuff in the game. Remind me again why we thought it was better to drop this thing on them instead of just dropping a demolisher cannon shell?

Vindicator - Heavy Support: 125 points
Dark Talon - Fast attack: 160 points

Vindicator loadout:
13 AV with a S10 AP2 Large Blast

Dark Talon
TWIN LINKED HURRICANE BOLTERS S4 AP5 - WHOOO

The best case scenario is that you fly over something strong drop your load on it's face on turn 2. Attack and win. Then on Turn 5 (somehow it lived that long) switch to hover ftw.

It can happen

The biggest issue, let's look at our powerful melee units. Deathwing knights and black knights come to mind. If they're up against anything that isn't I4 or higher (so eldar, marines, daemons, etc.) they're going to just go clobbering time anyways. Against anything that's genuinely scary, it's probably going to match their initiative even if it drops by three. And is that tiny extra chance to hit ever worth buying a 160 pt model? Especially when your bomb might miss, or that your unit doesn't make the charge that turn. For 160 I could get a bunch more termies or bikes.

And LOLOLOL at the bolters, GW trolling obviously.

Would it be of any use if it made any units charging them get to reroll charge or something like that? Or not allow overwatch? I just feel like any buff that isn't BS/WS/I -3 for the whole game just isn't worth the points.

I will say, the absolute best thing about it, unless your enemy is heavy anti-air you never have to worry. Because absolutely no one in their right mind would waste shooting on this thing

I think a better way of saving it is to simply add that at the start of your opponents next turn roll a d6 for each model in the anomaly and on the result of a 5+ (-1 if it is a vehicle or a monstrous creature) those models take a strength test (vehicles counting as str 9) and if failed are removed from play (vehicles take a penetrating hit at ap2)

This can simply be rationalized as these infantry/vehicles/whatever caught in the anomaly weren't strong enough to handle the transition back to normal time and space and were Discombobulated. And makes it not as useful against armor but still good against infantry

Essentially making it similar to the telly-porta-blasta that big meks have.

Make those that's hit by the plate have to roll for perils, Friendly from Dark Angels codex may reroll perils.

 Bishop F Gantry wrote:
Make those that's hit by the plate have to roll for perils, Friendly from Dark Angels codex may reroll perils.

This would be awesome!