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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

Id like to mass produce fortress monasteries

Realistically the las based weapons since it could basically always use it

Otherwise vortex grenades is probably a really cool one.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stealth Suits. Armour is always outstripped by weaponry in terms of technology in short order, so stealth is the only reliable way to avoid getting killed.

While not a 40k matter, this statement is incredibly stupid. It's how we've ended up with the F-35, a fighter that can't climb, can't turn, and can't run, that carries exactly 2 obsolete "long" range missiles.

Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

You are CLEARLY not American.

@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

The explosive aspect for killing stealthsuits is a good point, kind of reminds me of Iron Man. I don't care how tough your armor is. Handling that many G's and kinetic blasts will still kill any human inside. Not to say powered armor would be ineffective, since 40K armor would be nearly impenetrable to small arms fire of today.

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

Oh, you mean long-term.

Don't we already have a huge place hollowed out under Cheyenne mountain for or nuclear C&C? That'd work just fine.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

Oh, you mean long-term.

Don't we already have a huge place hollowed out under Cheyenne mountain for or nuclear C&C? That'd work just fine.

I agree on that.

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Anything on an Orbital scale and its game over for whomever tries to oppose it. So any 40k orbital craft or weapons platforms.

Failing that Ork submersibles

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Back out of range for maybe their game turn, in your turn you can just move forward and your also faster than space marines

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

Stealth suits aren't just visual stealth. They have technology blocking them from detection via technology as well. And thermal being one of the simplest forms of such, it's laughable to think they aren't concealed against that.

You guys don't understand. The thing that all governments would love to be able to mass-produce (aside from Forge Worlds) is Meratech clan type starships!

Think about it: spaceships that can basically pilot themselves, require almost no crew except from servitors (which are hideously easy to get when you have a cruiser with bombardment cannons in orbit) , and as soon as you have one, it's easy enough to get enough resources for another.

I suppose that mass-producing forge worlds would be better, if requiring quite a bit more reality-defying tech.

Note: I voted for Imperial Knights. Even if they probably would be made obsolete pretty quickly, the simple huge technological progress they represent would make almost anything else awesome too. Plus, they're simple badass!
MOAR GIANT MECHA!!!

I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

I though the teleportation system needed psykers and a ship to work properly

Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

Because then you've got a hydra situation: Cut off one head, two more will take its place

 Xenomancers wrote:
Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

Not compatible to humans

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stealth Suits. Armour is always outstripped by weaponry in terms of technology in short order, so stealth is the only reliable way to avoid getting killed.

While not a 40k matter, this statement is incredibly stupid. It's how we've ended up with the F-35, a fighter that can't climb, can't turn, and can't run, that carries exactly 2 obsolete "long" range missiles.

Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

You are CLEARLY not American.

f 35 is a massive design failure - trying to get too much technology onto a small frame - it just wont ever work as intended. Compare that to the f-22 which quite frankly is still the most advanced fighter on earth. It can dog fight but thats not it's purpose. It's purpose is to fly ahead of your airforce at high speeds while remaining invisible to detection - get target locks on enemies and fire long ranged rockets from supporting aircraft and ships and tanks. It never has to break stealth to do this. The second they open weapons bays they are just and vunerable as any other fighter - but the F22 is also one of the most maneuverable fighters in the air too - so it can match anything in the air as well.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics. The Army could gut every single truck, every single man, and every single plane dedicated to transporting ammunition for small-arms and repurpose it. Lasguns can have their ammunition recharged by pretty much everything, including camp fires, and effectively provide infinite ammunition for the soldiers using them. The amount of troops that could actually be fielded in battle to those needed to stay home and run logistics would increase in the favor of combat troops, and the lasgun would also simultaneously get rid of production of assault rifles, light machine guns, designated marksmen rifles, pistols, etc. The only thing that might remain are sniper teams, although lasguns variants could replace those as well.

Basically the only thing tying the American soldier to a supply line now would be food and water. Otherwise they're fine and could be stuck in the middle of a desert and never run out of ammo.


Also, the advantage of power armor isn't the protection it would provide us. The real boon of power armor is that we could copy the technology used to make the fusion reactor that powers it, and mass produce that. BOOM. Welcome to the fusion era, energy crisis solved. Electrical energy replaces all other forms of power in less then a decade.

Mass pordices a complete STC. all human problems solved

EmpNortonII wrote:Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.

F-35 was never meant for full-scale war. It was meant to act under Air Supremacy/Superiority, and use outer hardpoints to mount missiles. Plans for F-35 were drawn when there was no actual war to be expected. Same reason why tank technology has been lagging for the last 20+ years.

F(/A)-22 was meant to be used where the s*it was spinning in the propeller at the escape velocity. It was meant to penetrate enemy air-defence, and to be used as a First-strike craft alongside B-2, F-117 and the now canceled FB-22 Strike Raptor.

Xenomancers wrote:Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

Yeah, even the things that are meant to be left standing. Anything even remotely titan-sized would fail on modern battlefield.

gwarsh41 wrote:I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Teleportation - I think we are better off with Stealth Helicopters than start fiddling with Warp-based tech.
Armour - Assuming we can manufacture it in sufficient amounts. Also, weight. Also, pressure wave.
Shielding - Nice idea, but I think that would be rather expensive to start slapping it onto every Humvee we have.

All this assuming that we can separate any sub-systems in the first place.

gwarsh41 wrote:Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

If it was just that simple. Also, somebody needs to do the occupation and deal with the ground forces.


Also, guys in Power Armour aren't that hard to kill. Just follow the standard protocol: If your squad can't handle it, call in artillery. Failing that, call in CAS.
Even if the suit's intact, the person inside wishes (s)he was dead.

Somethine just hit me about the lasgun. If we're mass producing and using lasguns then we're certainly making their power packs too. Those things are really good compact rechargeable power sources. Using them to make lasguns work would be one of the least interesting things we could do with them.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics. The Army could gut every single truck, every single man, and every single plane dedicated to transporting ammunition for small-arms and repurpose it. Lasguns can have their ammunition recharged by pretty much everything, including camp fires, and effectively provide infinite ammunition for the soldiers using them. The amount of troops that could actually be fielded in battle to those needed to stay home and run logistics would increase in the favor of combat troops, and the lasgun would also simultaneously get rid of production of assault rifles, light machine guns, designated marksmen rifles, pistols, etc. The only thing that might remain are sniper teams, although lasguns variants could replace those as well.

Basically the only thing tying the American soldier to a supply line now would be food and water. Otherwise they're fine and could be stuck in the middle of a desert and never run out of ammo.


Also, the advantage of power armor isn't the protection it would provide us. The real boon of power armor is that we could copy the technology used to make the fusion reactor that powers it, and mass produce that. BOOM. Welcome to the fusion era, energy crisis solved. Electrical energy replaces all other forms of power in less then a decade.

Oh, lasguns would be a great improvement, that is for sure. Just not when compared to the other things on the list. An AK does pretty much everything a lasgun does already. The only difference is that it needs bullets. But when you have an army in the field, you already have to set up a huge logistics chain (an army requires far more than just small arms munition) so you might just as well take a few crates of bullets with you on those planes and trucks you are going to be using for logistics anyway.
When you can choose between an army with infantry equipped with slightly better than average rifles or an army where every soldier is a virtually indestructable walking tank, what would you choose?

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Back out of range for maybe their game turn, in your turn you can just move forward and your also faster than space marines

Move out of cover to engage? A 3+and 3++ are the same thing against bolter fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

I voted power armor, but it was a really hard call between that and lasguns.

I figure lasguns mass produced would give our regular troops alot of punch, but given what sorts of armor are used currently in regards to regular troops, I think it would be no more effective than our normal guns. We don't have any armies atm running around in combat armor (outside of really specialized troops units) making our normal weapons ineffective, so that means lasguns would only be just "as" effective as any other assault rifles we use now in terms of killing power.

Massed produced power armor on the other hand? Now that would change the tables immediately, and might even give rise to the need for something like a lasgun in the ensuing arms race. But until that arms race actually happened, whoever had masses of power armor would tactically be near unstoppable. And yes, the key term here is "mass produced."

Any spacecraft with FTL or near-light-speed travel device really...

But until that arms race actually happened, whoever had masses of power armor would tactically be near unstoppable

Power armour can be countered with mass missile launchers / RPG.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics.

Every weapon has wear and tear. Electronics and optical parts (laser lenses) wear just as mechanical parts. That's like saying a thing that is out of steel will hold for eternity, which is not the case most of the time. In fact, lenses/mirrors for lasers have to be kept very clean otherwise the dirt on them burns and damages the lense/mirror, making them unusable.
So nope, you need logistics just like for every other weapon