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 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

The riptide would function pretty well in cities. Due to it's speed and range it could stand far off in reserve and be called upon to break enemy defensive positions with relative ease.

IMO it would be a nearly unstoppable siege weapon.

Tau Manta. Only thing on the list with an FTL drive. Can also function as an intercontinental transport and as a land battleship.

I think a lot of people did not grasp the meaning of MASS PRODUCE. They are too focused on logistics, costs, theater of battle. mission objectives etc and blindly disregard the benefits of the item itself.

Mass produce usually means the item will be cheap to produce, have adapate infructures to build, maintain. etc.

In other words. If each of the selection costs just 1pt to buy in a game of 40K. which would you choose? (playing unbound of course)

Plasma cannons.

This of course assumes no cost limiter I take it?

Then the answer is easy: Imperial Knights. If they could produce knights in the millions, then it is game over.

Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

The riptide would function pretty well in cities. Due to it's speed and range it could stand far off in reserve and be called upon to break enemy defensive positions with relative ease.

IMO it would be a nearly unstoppable siege weapon.

Cruise Missiles make anything larger then a tank completely pointless and useless in modern combat- unless they have something like void shields on titans to ward off missiles or nukes, they aren't going to do much.

The riptides overcharged shield can fend off deathstrike missiles.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The riptides overcharged shield can fend off deathstrike missiles.

And then it gets hit by another one. And another one. And another one. Same with AGTM. All of which are far cheaper to make then a Riptide. Same with Baneblades.

Same with everything on this list, asside from the manta, because it would be very hard to hit.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Same with everything on this list, asside from the manta, because it would be very hard to hit.

The difference is that they won't be chucking cruise missiles/AGTM at stealth suits or power armor.

If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

Because any competent military base probably has missile defenses if there's an enemy boat off shore loaded with missiles and bombarding their location? There isn't even a single damn point to using something as big as a Riptide or Knight, we already have vehicles that can cause that much damage- they're called fighter-bombers. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide, while also having the advantage of being several thousand feet in the air- at an altitude where things like Drones or missile boats isn't going to be a real threat, and the only thing that can threaten the pilot are SAM batteries and interceptors.

I agree, that's why I voted for stealth suits.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Blackstone Fortress?

Even better. Who doesn't want the power do blow up suns?

Believe it or not, Obama. Did you hear about that petition to build the death star he refused?

Death Stars don't blow up suns.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

We already have options of blowing up other people's stuff with extreme efficiency. What we don't have is ways to make small numbers of people extremely effective while limiting the number of dead soldiers.

Power Armor. You don't win wars without taking and holding ground, and you don't take and hold ground without boots on it. 5 dudes in power armor could stroll through any engagement zone and walk out unscathed, while murdering a bunch of dudes, while perserving the landscape and buildings.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

... assuming, of course, the Riptide doesn't have a radar array to detect incoming aircraft or bombs.

Oh wait! It does!

 PhillyT wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

By fluff, not crunch. By crunch mantas are rather bad for their cost, but in fluff, they are powerful enough to be bale to damage giant startships.Not massive damage, but damage non the less. Heavy rail guns one shot titans w/o void shields. I still go for stealth suits though.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

By fluff, not crunch. By crunch mantas are rather bad for their cost, but in fluff, they are powerful enough to be bale to damage giant startships.Not massive damage, but damage non the less. Heavy rail guns one shot titans w/o void shields. I still go for stealth suits though.

Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans. Tau wise i would pick the Stealth suit over the riptide. only to be able to hide in the womans locker room in plain sight
Eldar/dark eldar wise...... a jet bike or the Dark eldar hover board
Ork... pass i dont want to asplode
Necrons...... not sure.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
From a no-fun real answer point of view, Power Armor. Something that enhances physical ability, sensory ability and immeasurably decreases risk to the actual person, the choice is obvious. And Mass Production makes it sound like everyone gets it. Terminator is a close second, but Power Armor is cheaper, easier to produce, and we all know how world militaries are. A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

This, Power Armor, but not for the reasons most people would assume. It has less to do with force protection and more to do with logistics. If you could get each infantryman to carry 300 lbs on his back, you'd basically mitigate a great deal of the required logistics chain to keep him supplied.

Also, Power Armor would be useful outside of combat as well. Want to load a bunch of trucks quickly? Suit up, Jobnick!

 Desubot wrote:


Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans.

If the OP meant for xenos tech to be unworkable by humans, why would he include xenos etch in the question?

Logic, yo. Use it.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans.

If the OP meant for xenos tech to be unworkable by humans, why would he include xenos etch in the question?

Logic, yo. Use it.

Logic... in 40k? are you mad?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

... assuming, of course, the Riptide doesn't have a radar array to detect incoming aircraft or bombs.

Oh wait! It does!

Unless you have a quote for its usage or equipment, no, it doesn't. Plus depending on the range of when the missile is fired, be it a jet or a drone, the pilot may not even be physically capable of reacting.

Velocity tracker and EWO.