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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay guys. I know this has been addressed, but does the Emenatus Field rule make squadrons not gakky?

In a recent game I fired a two-vehicle squadron of Neutronagers at a Land Raider and hit, penned, and rolled explodes results for both lasers. The overkill made me super sad, as if they had been split I could've hit the contents with a second shot (instead of melting the land Raider twice).

You're not going to explode a land raider twice every time. Like not even close.

I feel like Rustalkers and Infiltrators are too expensive for under 1K point level.

I'd take Dragoons instead, models permitting.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay guys. I know this has been addressed, but does the Emenatus Field rule make squadrons not gakky?

In a recent game I fired a two-vehicle squadron of Neutronagers at a Land Raider and hit, penned, and rolled explodes results for both lasers. The overkill made me super sad, as if they had been split I could've hit the contents with a second shot (instead of melting the land Raider twice).

You're not going to explode a land raider twice every time. Like not even close.

But then you can just fire both at it anyways!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay guys. I know this has been addressed, but does the Emenatus Field rule make squadrons not gakky?

In a recent game I fired a two-vehicle squadron of Neutronagers at a Land Raider and hit, penned, and rolled explodes results for both lasers. The overkill made me super sad, as if they had been split I could've hit the contents with a second shot (instead of melting the land Raider twice).

You're not going to explode a land raider twice every time. Like not even close.

But then you can just fire both at it anyways!

And crumple if AT guns shoot at the Onager. Long story short, Squadrons make your surviability go through the roof.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Okay guys. I know this has been addressed, but does the Emenatus Field rule make squadrons not gakky?

In a recent game I fired a two-vehicle squadron of Neutronagers at a Land Raider and hit, penned, and rolled explodes results for both lasers. The overkill made me super sad, as if they had been split I could've hit the contents with a second shot (instead of melting the land Raider twice).

You're not going to explode a land raider twice every time. Like not even close.

But then you can just fire both at it anyways!

And crumple if AT guns shoot at the Onager. Long story short, Squadrons make your surviability go through the roof.

My ability to walk through cover while ignoring it meant I had cover most of the game - I made far more 4+ cover saves than I had to roll 5+ invulns for the two-vehicle squadron.

Overkill is a problem, for you and the enemy. Like you said, if you have 2 separate squads then your shooting can be way more effective. In my opinion, I would rather have 3 separate Dunewalkers to fire at different targets, than have a lot of wasted fire and a slightly better invul.

Verv, only thing I'd do to amend that list is drop one of the elite units to flesh out your infantry core. The list is fairly light on model count and Skitarii are far from the most durable of armies.

In other news, a thought occurred to me. As hesitant as I am about Kastelans presently - they would make an excellent bodyguard for the Tech-Priest Dominus (even though we don't know what exactly he brings to the table).

Should the new infantry be Vanguards or Rangers? That list is made up of everything I have.

 Verviedi wrote:
Should the new infantry be Vanguards or Rangers? That list is made up of everything I have.

I've found a love for Vanguard. The tremendous volume of fire they put out for the low cost is very impressive.

Ditto what Katana says, the cancer armor rules and rolling 6's to wound with the cancer gun are a godsend against everything.

 ultimentra wrote:
Ditto what Katana says, the cancer armor rules and rolling 6's to wound with the cancer gun are a godsend against everything.

The first part of that, most un-talked about simply amazing rule. Cancer armor rule, as you put it is bonkers powerful, get them into combat with anything, and the rest of your army's assault units go from damaging to absolutely terrifying. One instance would be against anything multiwound T5 like say wraiths, or thunderwolves. Suddenly, all of your dragoon swings are going from 1 wound to instant death... that is HUGE! I have had test games where I threw one of these units into close combat with a deathstar, just so that the rest of my assault units totally wreck that deathstar. Even claw onagers can suddenly be dealing instant death to t6 monstrous creatures...

The Vanguard's cancer gun , in combination with +BS shenanigans with the Doctrines, wrecked my brother's nids. A combination of 5 6's(!) on wounding, plus poor armor saves led to a Mawloc melting to a 5 man unit of Vanguard sitting on a backfield objective.

Comparatively, my ranger's were useless either killing gaunts, or zoanthropes. And arc guns made me wish I had more rad carbines against nids XD.

Overall, the sheer weight of fire was both more effective AND more efficient than even FRFSRF'ing blob guard.

At this point, I'm really waiting on the full Ad Mech dex to see if I could run Vanguard with Castelan's. If I'm not wrong, it should be able to ID Carnifex Broods running that combo >.>

Verv, have you only been running your Skitarii as a FOC option or have you been using the 'One of everything' Maniple formation?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Verv, have you only been running your Skitarii as a FOC option or have you been using the 'One of everything' Maniple formation?

FOC. I don't consider the benefits of the Battle Maniple formation worth the "every unit" tax. Balistarii are fawful and I would rather run more Vanguard than Rangers.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Verv, have you only been running your Skitarii as a FOC option or have you been using the 'One of everything' Maniple formation?

FOC. I don't consider the benefits of the Battle Maniple formation worth the "every unit" tax. Balistarii are fawful and I would rather run more Vanguard than Rangers.

You realize that it is Ballistarii OR Dragoon, right?

I would assume he did not realize that. The Scouts & 12" LD bubble from the Onager is pretty darn sweet.

Stock FOC gets Scout as well.

Huh. I did not notice that. I'll have to look into it when I buy some proper Rangers instead of using half my Vanguard as Rangers.

gameandwatch wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
Ditto what Katana says, the cancer armor rules and rolling 6's to wound with the cancer gun are a godsend against everything.

The first part of that, most un-talked about simply amazing rule. Cancer armor rule, as you put it is bonkers powerful, get them into combat with anything, and the rest of your army's assault units go from damaging to absolutely terrifying. One instance would be against anything multiwound T5 like say wraiths, or thunderwolves. Suddenly, all of your dragoon swings are going from 1 wound to instant death... that is HUGE! I have had test games where I threw one of these units into close combat with a deathstar, just so that the rest of my assault units totally wreck that deathstar. Even claw onagers can suddenly be dealing instant death to t6 monstrous creatures...

kir44n wrote:The Vanguard's cancer gun , in combination with +BS shenanigans with the Doctrines, wrecked my brother's nids. A combination of 5 6's(!) on wounding, plus poor armor saves led to a Mawloc melting to a 5 man unit of Vanguard sitting on a backfield objective.

Comparatively, my ranger's were useless either killing gaunts, or zoanthropes. And arc guns made me wish I had more rad carbines against nids XD.

Overall, the sheer weight of fire was both more effective AND more efficient than even FRFSRF'ing blob guard.

At this point, I'm really waiting on the full Ad Mech dex to see if I could run Vanguard with Castelan's. If I'm not wrong, it should be able to ID Carnifex Broods running that combo >.>

Glad I'm not the only person on the Vanguard hype train. I owe the nomenclature of "cancer gun" and "cancer armor" to Reecius from one of his vids.

I'm leaning less and less towards vanguard, and little to no Rangers. They just don't seem to be able to carry their weight. Maybe they'll shine against some xenos for me some game, but I'm seriously considering grabbing 2 more boxes of Vanguard next paycheck.

One thought I'm having is Skitarii will have a tough time filling out higher points games without using multiple formations or CADS. Depending on your area this may limit you a bit. Sometimes I can see it being detrimental to max out squadrons or unit sizes in bigger games where they are more likely to get blown off the table in 1 turn.

Took a unit of 10 vanguard with plasma calivers.

Had ulrik for preferred enemy and beast hunter....almost one shot a wraith knight. Pretty impressive. \

Small 5 man unit of vanguard just with no upgrades is not bad, having move through cover is pretty nice and a good way to give some allied IC's scout

 Leth wrote:
Took a unit of 10 vanguard with plasma calivers.

Had ulrik for preferred enemy and beast hunter....almost one shot a wraith knight. Pretty impressive. \

Small 5 man unit of vanguard just with no upgrades is not bad, having move through cover is pretty nice and a good way to give some allied IC's scout

Rangers are the ones that get MTC.

Say I got a box of Vanguard/Ranger, what is the first unit I should build?

From what I can gather, a 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers is the way to go. Is that far off? A what gear should the 'sergeant' have?

Det Thyge wrote:
Say I got a box of Vanguard/Ranger, what is the first unit I should build?

From what I can gather, a 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers is the way to go. Is that far off? A what gear should the 'sergeant' have?

Three Arc rifles over Calivers, I'd say. Although one box only nets you one of each special weapon. I leave my sergeants naked.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Det Thyge wrote:
Say I got a box of Vanguard/Ranger, what is the first unit I should build?

From what I can gather, a 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers is the way to go. Is that far off? A what gear should the 'sergeant' have?

Three Arc rifles over Calivers, I'd say. Although one box only nets you one of each special weapon. I leave my sergeants naked.

Okay, so here's an issue I'm having.

Can you actually just leave standard rifles on the Alphas or do they have to take weapons? The wording suggests more that they have to take melee/ranged weapons but I just am not sure yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Det Thyge wrote:
Say I got a box of Vanguard/Ranger, what is the first unit I should build?

From what I can gather, a 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers is the way to go. Is that far off? A what gear should the 'sergeant' have?

Three Arc rifles over Calivers, I'd say. Although one box only nets you one of each special weapon. I leave my sergeants naked.

Okay, so here's an issue I'm having.

Can you actually just leave standard rifles on the Alphas or do they have to take weapons? The wording suggests more that they have to take melee/ranged weapons but I just am not sure yet.

Without my codex on me, I believe they can stick with stock weapons (the kit certainly allows such a build).

The kit has 10 rifles and 10 rad carbines. So both Rangers and Vanguard can be built with 10 guys all with stock weapon.

The alpha doesn't need to upgrade and can be taken with the stock gun.

Super Newb wrote:
The kit has 10 rifles and 10 rad carbines. So both Rangers and Vanguard can be built with 10 guys all with stock weapon.

The alpha doesn't need to upgrade and can be taken with the stock gun.

There is 1 rifle and one carbine each that are made to be held 1 handed. So you can put an Omnispex in the other hand. This is the best build.

 Exergy wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
The kit has 10 rifles and 10 rad carbines. So both Rangers and Vanguard can be built with 10 guys all with stock weapon.

The alpha doesn't need to upgrade and can be taken with the stock gun.

There is 1 rifle and one carbine each that are made to be held 1 handed. So you can put an Omnispex in the other hand. This is the best build.

Omnispex is good, yeah. I was just pointing out that the kit has enough for everyone in the squad to field the stock guns. The one handed rifle could be paired with an empty pointing arm if someone wants to do that for some reason.

The 'best' build is really 3 arc rifles, 1 omnispex, 5 stock dudes and 1 stock alpha.

Plasma on the vanguard unit is good if that unit has the alpha warlord for preferred enemy. Otherwise its a bit risky

 Kanluwen wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Det Thyge wrote:
Say I got a box of Vanguard/Ranger, what is the first unit I should build?

From what I can gather, a 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers is the way to go. Is that far off? A what gear should the 'sergeant' have?

Three Arc rifles over Calivers, I'd say. Although one box only nets you one of each special weapon. I leave my sergeants naked.

Okay, so here's an issue I'm having.

Can you actually just leave standard rifles on the Alphas or do they have to take weapons? The wording suggests more that they have to take melee/ranged weapons but I just am not sure yet.

RAW yes. It only states that you 'may' replace the stock gun, not that you must.