Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So played in an 18 man ITC tournament yesterday at the FLGS

Got 3rd over all out of 3 rounds, 2 wins 1 tie with the War Convocation.

Its quite strong, though it may be due to its newness as well. A lot of people dont know what to expect yet.

But I'm happy with its performance

What did you run yours with? Did you survive going second or faced any pod-type armies?

I was also in a tournament, yesterday, 22 people, also went 2-1.

I was using a normal skitarii detachment with the admech cohort cybernetica. Things I learned:

-BE SUPER AGGRESSIVE WITH THE COHORT. This unit is nigh unstoppable; I only lost 1 robot the whole day, no other models, and only because I rolled a 1 when trying to give the injured robot a wound back... Otherwise, their output of fire is seriously damaging, and they are also very deadly in close combat. Stick them at the frontline in a very "come at me bro" style and just blast away. After I learned the ins and outs, I was actually rarely using the extra shots command, until my opponent realized their sustainability and ignored them. It is important to not forget that they are still at base, 4 monstrous creatures, 2 powerfist datasmiths and a power axe dominus, which means getting them into close combat is not a bad thing at all. As well, even though the iwnd relic is a given on this unit, the cognis relic as well made it very deadly against flyers and fmcs so keep that in mind. Grade A+

-Though skitarii infantry may look decent on paper, and vanguard are a decent unit, especially when put in pods, they are VERY fragile and their range really hurts them. Now having played in a tourny with the army, it makes me very sad neither skitarii nor cult mech has a transport or deep strike option for these units. They overall did okay, but everygame they were wiped out. I was using 2 5 man haywire squads and 1 full 10 man stock squad, decent output, but hard to keep around or get in range. Grade b+

-Rustalkers and infiltrators...Ill start off by saying models wise these are my favorite in the army, I will never be playing without them. That being said, the obvious is just too true. toughness 3 on these guys is a travesty, plain and simple. SO often their multiple wounds and FnP counted for nothing, as there is just sooooo much 6+ firepower in the game atm. THAT being said, these guys are some of the most destructive force I have ever witnessed. Even one, of either of these units cannot be allowed to exist. Rustalkers are a terror for both infantry and vehicles (didnt get to fight any MCs), they just mow through any target they get their hands on. Infiltrators' passive ability is game changing against so many armies, and the S6 goad hits gets out of hand so quickly it is silly. I am now completely rethinking the validity of the killclade formation. Grade A

-Dragoons...are...awesome! didn't get to use them much vs infantry but man are the nasty vehicle hunters. All the dunstriders' speed (including the above 2) is incredible and man all those S8 hits just murders vehicles. So fun, and not as fragile as I thought. Grade A+

-Onagers hit hard, but are a gamble. I have tried the icarrus array version in practice, and though great against flyers and skimmers, against any army that either has no abundance of said units, or they simply aren't on the field, makes the iccarus crawlers a fairly large point sink that just stands around and snap fires at some things. Thus, I decided to try the neutron laser variant. I love the look of this gun, and coming stock with the stubber is nice. The laser itself is very nasty, and crazy accurate with orders given...but suffers from the problem all single small blasts have. It is just one small blast. It can be really nasty if it gets through, but against single targets it can be shrugged off by one roll, which is very sad. Unsure if I will field these guys in the future. Great when they work, big terrain pieces when they don't. Grade B

Thats all I got for today!

Do I have your permission to add that to the OP under tactics?

So what are peoples oppinion about the Kastelan formation and the formation with the Kataphrons? I really want to run them next to my Skitarii. But not sure if they are any good with all the footslogging.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
So what are peoples oppinion about the Kastelan formation and the formation with the Kataphrons? I really want to run them next to my Skitarii. But not sure if they are any good with all the footslogging.

Kastelan formation is really nice. It's the only way to have a Dominus in a unit of Kastelans, which means access to the IWND Relic. Since the whole formation is deployed as a single unit, but counts as 3 for the purposes of Canticles it gives a nice little boost that way. Add in the Cognis relic armor and you have Kastelans that Overwatch/Snap Shoot on 5's or 6's with IWND and instantly activate their Protocols.

You'll have to be more specific in regards to the "formation with the Kataphrons" as there are two different ones. Elimination Maniple is 1-3 Kastelan Maniples and 2-3 units of Kataphron Destroyers while the Requisitioner Force is a Dominus and 2 units of Kataphron Breachers.

Deshkar wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So played in an 18 man ITC tournament yesterday at the FLGS

Got 3rd over all out of 3 rounds, 2 wins 1 tie with the War Convocation.

Its quite strong, though it may be due to its newness as well. A lot of people dont know what to expect yet.

But I'm happy with its performance

What did you run yours with? Did you survive going second or faced any pod-type armies?

THink I posted my list earlier in the thread,

Skitarii Battle Mantiple - Codex: Skitarii
Vanguard x 10 (3 x plasma, omnispex, Conversion field, digi weapons) -100 Pts
Rangers x 10 (3x arquebus, ominspex, conversion field, digi weapons) - 120 pts
Dragoons x2 (taser lance, phospor serpenta) - 90 pts
Infiltrators x 5 ( taser/flechete, conversion field, digital weapons, phosphoenix, info slave skull) 185 pts
Rust Stalkers x 5 (Claw, razor grenades, conversion field, digital weapons, omniscient mask, data spike ) 160 pts
Dunecralwer x1 (Icarrus, extra stubber, cognis manipulator, mindscanner probe, data tether) - 90 Pts

Oathsworn Detachment - Codex: Imperial Knights
1 x Knight Paladin (Stormspear pod) 370 pts

Battle Congregation - Codex Cult Mechanicus
Dominus x 1 (eradication ray, macrostubber, digi weapons, infoslave, conversion field, autocaduceus) - 105 Pts

Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosphor) - 165 Pts
Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosport) -165 pts

Kastelan Robot Mantiple (phosphor, phospor, techsmith upgrades) - 290 pts
Robots x2: phospor shoulder, phosphor hands
Datasmith x1: digi weapons, infoslave skull, conversion field, rainment of technomartyr

Went second on the 1st and 3rd game, went 1st on second game. Clever use of scout moves into cover and behind LOS buildings kept my guys alive for the most part until I could activate Shroudpsalm kept most alive my first turn. 3rd game was against a guy with a cult/blood angels army who had a Cohort and 2 pods full of grav destroyers, cover saved my butt on that one but that was the one i lost the most models. Rust STalkers and infiltrators were mvps, Rust stalkers wrecked 2 necron vehicles in assault game one due to haywire grenades and dragoons did their part as well. They're a flexible army, they can gunline or advance.

Vanguard and rust stalkers scouted every turn into cover mid field and infiltrators infiltrated nearby to take advantage of their debuff. Infantry on their own are very squishy

Cognis relic on the kastellans was a good choice, gave me some more pseudo anti air and my crawler intercepted a nightscythe turn 2 and wreck it with an immobilize.

Game 1: Mix crons, blob of warriors with a destroyer lord and that light staff thing, one ghost ark, one unit of 5 wraiths, 1 unit of death marks, one triarch stalker, C'tan nightbringer and 2 other destroyer lords that deep struck
Game 2: More crons, 18 wraiths, 3 sythes with max warriors cryteks
Game 3: Cohort and min size war congregation and blood angels.

Cohort is crazy tough, took 5 rounds to kill off 2 kastellans and 2 data smiths, he had 2 kastellans and his priest left at the end

 Kanluwen wrote:

You'll have to be more specific in regards to the "formation with the Kataphrons" as there are two different ones. Elimination Maniple is 1-3 Kastelan Maniples and 2-3 units of Kataphron Destroyers while the Requisitioner Force is a Dominus and 2 units of Kataphron Breachers.

Both sound interesting to me. I got the Kastalans and was thinking about the one with the Dominus and 1/3 Kataphron Destroyer squads. If I take it I'll have enough for the Elimination Maniple to.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You'll have to be more specific in regards to the "formation with the Kataphrons" as there are two different ones. Elimination Maniple is 1-3 Kastelan Maniples and 2-3 units of Kataphron Destroyers while the Requisitioner Force is a Dominus and 2 units of Kataphron Breachers.

Both sound interesting to me. I got the Kastalans and was thinking about the one with the Dominus and 1/3 Kataphron Destroyer squads. If I take it I'll have enough for the Elimination Maniple to.

2 Kataphron Breacher Squads, not Destroyers.

You don't get to do "or" with any of the formations in Cult Mechanicus sadly.

A Holy Requisitioner formation with an Elimination Maniple would be kinda interesting.

What's everyone's thoughts on allying in the new Skyhammer formation for Space Marines to give even more alpha-strike goodness to a Cult Mechanicus list? Combined with Skitarii drop pods, you could get a very effective first-turn alpha-strike podding list that will shoot a crap-ton of stuff off the table, and then lock in close combat anything that might be left standing which poses a threat (blobs, particularly).

I'm looking at Skitarii, Skyhammer Formation, another SM formation/detachment to give me librarians, and then the Culexus assassin to counter any psychic deathstars.

 Verviedi wrote:
Do I have your permission to add that to the OP under tactics?

Go for it dude!

 Enigwolf wrote:
What's everyone's thoughts on allying in the new Skyhammer formation for Space Marines to give even more alpha-strike goodness to a Cult Mechanicus list? Combined with Skitarii drop pods, you could get a very effective first-turn alpha-strike podding list that will shoot a crap-ton of stuff off the table, and then lock in close combat anything that might be left standing which poses a threat (blobs, particularly).

I'm looking at Skitarii, Skyhammer Formation, another SM formation/detachment to give me librarians, and then the Culexus assassin to counter any psychic deathstars.

Honest opinion? Your opponent wouldnt have any fun, and you would look like a colossal douche.

Yeah, play to have fun, not to win. At least that's what I do.

Orock wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
What's everyone's thoughts on allying in the new Skyhammer formation for Space Marines to give even more alpha-strike goodness to a Cult Mechanicus list? Combined with Skitarii drop pods, you could get a very effective first-turn alpha-strike podding list that will shoot a crap-ton of stuff off the table, and then lock in close combat anything that might be left standing which poses a threat (blobs, particularly).

I'm looking at Skitarii, Skyhammer Formation, another SM formation/detachment to give me librarians, and then the Culexus assassin to counter any psychic deathstars.

Honest opinion? Your opponent wouldnt have any fun, and you would look like a colossal douche.

Quarterdime wrote:Yeah, play to have fun, not to win. At least that's what I do.

Of course, I completely agree. I refuse to play like a WAAC player, this is simply list-building for the sake of theory-crafting.

 Orock wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
What's everyone's thoughts on allying in the new Skyhammer formation for Space Marines to give even more alpha-strike goodness to a Cult Mechanicus list? Combined with Skitarii drop pods, you could get a very effective first-turn alpha-strike podding list that will shoot a crap-ton of stuff off the table, and then lock in close combat anything that might be left standing which poses a threat (blobs, particularly).

I'm looking at Skitarii, Skyhammer Formation, another SM formation/detachment to give me librarians, and then the Culexus assassin to counter any psychic deathstars.

Honest opinion? Your opponent wouldnt have any fun, and you would look like a colossal douche.

This is a tactics thread. You're here to construct the optimal army.

If you want to self-nerf and run a casual list, go ahead, but please understand that some people enjoy playing hardcore 40k with optimised lists, and there are a lot of these players around. Go to any GT,
you'll find out how far playing casual will get you.

The main problem with this list is that Gamersaurus tournaments are usually two source only.

I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

Fielded a Cohort Cybernetica this past weekend in an 1100pt list. Support it with a triple arc Vanguard squad and a triple Caliver squad. No upgrades short of phosphors on the Kastellans. Faced off against an Ulthwe Eldar list (Guardian Warhost along with some falcons and a Nightspinner). Having been thrashed by it before playing pure Skitarii (the volume of S6 APBelow4 invalidating any saves I thought of taking) it was a welcome change to be able to routinely weather the storm of fire. Both Vanguard squads died, but dear lord the Cohort just wouldn't die. Lost a Datasmith and one bot, by the end of the game I was chasing a group of guardians and two falcons around in a circle shrugging off pulse lasers and starcannons, won 8-5 in Maelstrom.

 Orock wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
What's everyone's thoughts on allying in the new Skyhammer formation for Space Marines to give even more alpha-strike goodness to a Cult Mechanicus list? Combined with Skitarii drop pods, you could get a very effective first-turn alpha-strike podding list that will shoot a crap-ton of stuff off the table, and then lock in close combat anything that might be left standing which poses a threat (blobs, particularly).

I'm looking at Skitarii, Skyhammer Formation, another SM formation/detachment to give me librarians, and then the Culexus assassin to counter any psychic deathstars.

Honest opinion? Your opponent wouldnt have any fun, and you would look like a colossal douche.

That's not even a really bad list. Because there is a difference between building a strong but workable list, and building a horsecrap list that requires horsecrap to counter. Skyhammer is strong, and makes Assault Marines a bit less useless, but the above list is not so strong that it can't be beaten.

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

The disconnect is whether you consider listbuilding part of the game or not. Plenty of people will play to crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women etc once models are on the table, but are quite happy to use fluffy or quirky or for-the-sake-of-using-the-models lists to do so. That's why it would be nice to come into tactics threads every one in a while and have people actually discuss tactics beyond "don't take that, here use this boring alpha-strike netlist instead" and then get all pissy when it's pointed out that's not necessarily an answer to the question asked.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

The disconnect is whether you consider listbuilding part of the game or not. Plenty of people will play to crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women etc once models are on the table, but are quite happy to use fluffy or quirky or for-the-sake-of-using-the-models lists to do so. That's why it would be nice to come into tactics threads every one in a while and have people actually discuss tactics beyond "don't take that, here use this boring alpha-strike netlist instead" and then get all pissy when it's pointed out that's not necessarily an answer to the question asked.

Well, it is part of the game. Drop Pod Vanguard is probably straight up the strongest way to play Skitarii other than maybe the War Convocation. If you want a list to be considered, you have to argue as to why it's better than dropping units with 3 Plasma or 3 Haywire guns out of Pods, or say straight out that you're trying to build one without them and you realize that it's weaker.

As the person who originally suggested the Droppod Skitarii + Skyhammer force, let me just suggest we shift the topic away from whether WAAC gaming is fun or not, to the actual tactics themselves?

the problem with that list being very few tournaments, local or otherwise, support four source lists.

Requizen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

The disconnect is whether you consider listbuilding part of the game or not. Plenty of people will play to crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women etc once models are on the table, but are quite happy to use fluffy or quirky or for-the-sake-of-using-the-models lists to do so. That's why it would be nice to come into tactics threads every one in a while and have people actually discuss tactics beyond "don't take that, here use this boring alpha-strike netlist instead" and then get all pissy when it's pointed out that's not necessarily an answer to the question asked.

Well, it is part of the game. Drop Pod Vanguard is probably straight up the strongest way to play Skitarii other than maybe the War Convocation. If you want a list to be considered, you have to argue as to why it's better than dropping units with 3 Plasma or 3 Haywire guns out of Pods, or say straight out that you're trying to build one without them and you realize that it's weaker.

It's part of the game in your view. For myself, the game is the actual, you know, game; making a list is choosing how I'll be playing, not actually playing. And the point is exactly that folk shouldn't have to spend half their time in these threads debating the "why bother, just play Draigostar dewd" crowd when they ask for advice on how to use a unit or a list - is it too much to ask that folk get the benefit of the doubt that they're not utter morons who're capable of asking for list building advice if that's what they actually want?

Aspects of list building dictate gameplay. If I'm asked about my opinions regarding a unit, I compare it to other options within the book that fill the same slot and/or complementary units within the codex. I'm aware whoever I'm talking to may have done the same, but a different perspective may bring other things to light. How to use a unit by itself is one thing. How to use it in tandem with an army is quite another.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

The disconnect is whether you consider listbuilding part of the game or not. Plenty of people will play to crush their enemies and hear the lamentations of their women etc once models are on the table, but are quite happy to use fluffy or quirky or for-the-sake-of-using-the-models lists to do so. That's why it would be nice to come into tactics threads every one in a while and have people actually discuss tactics beyond "don't take that, here use this boring alpha-strike netlist instead" and then get all pissy when it's pointed out that's not necessarily an answer to the question asked.

Well, it is part of the game. Drop Pod Vanguard is probably straight up the strongest way to play Skitarii other than maybe the War Convocation. If you want a list to be considered, you have to argue as to why it's better than dropping units with 3 Plasma or 3 Haywire guns out of Pods, or say straight out that you're trying to build one without them and you realize that it's weaker.

It's part of the game in your view. For myself, the game is the actual, you know, game; making a list is choosing how I'll be playing, not actually playing. And the point is exactly that folk shouldn't have to spend half their time in these threads debating the "why bother, just play Draigostar dewd" crowd when they ask for advice on how to use a unit or a list - is it too much to ask that folk get the benefit of the doubt that they're not utter morons who're capable of asking for list building advice if that's what they actually want?

No one is saying "just play Draigostar". If you want feedback on a list, it has to be considered in the context of how it would fare against powerful lists that are out there currently. If people think it won't match up, then they'll suggest a list that does. If you're just playing against your friends and want to bring whatever and don't care how it does... then why are you asking for feedback?

And yes, list building is a huge part of the game. Knowing the meta, knowing what you need to counter, knowing what people lack to counter things you have, and being able to put it together in a list that's cohesive enough to win missions that are either kill points or objective based is a huge part of the game. If you don't do that, then you won't have a shot at winning against people who do. It's just as important if not more important than any amount of dice you roll or how you deploy.

Ok, so we did a test game where I was playing with 3 formations only, cohort, ironstrider, and killclade at 1850. I managed to get my ironstrider guys in on the first turn, got the side I wanted, moved the killclade and cohort straight at them.

Few notes:
-The turn 2 assault range of the killclade is just bonkers. I was able to assault his entire army on the field second turn. I averaged 26"-30" total movement on the second turn(move, run and charge) for all 4 squads, after moving and infiltrating on the first turn. That's 35"-39" total move in 2 turns! Plus with 6 dragoons in his deployment zone, he really had a hard time deciding where to put his damage.

-The dragoon formation is actually not bad...if you get your reserve roll. putting 2 units of dragoons in your opponents backfield right off the bat really changes the pace of the game, even if they are just bullet sponges, a unit of 3 is only 135 points, a fair sacrifice to keep all of your killclade untouched.

-cohort did what it always does, takes no damage and puts out fantastic damage.


Gonna try this out next, it just sounds so silly.

Cohort Cybernetica:
Dominus, Autocadeus of Arkhan Land, Eradication Beam, infoslave skull, conversion field 165
x5 kastelan robots, x5 twin linked heavy phosphur, x5 phosphur, x3 datasmith, (1 datasmith w/ raiment of the technomartyr, conversion field) 860
x5 kastelan robots, x5 twin linked heavy phosphur, x5 phosphur, x3 datasmith 825

TOTAL: 1850

Yea, anything with Dunestrider is crazy fast

I made a 14 inch charge roll over the weekend

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

I don't understand people who think that the only alternative to WAAC is not caring about winning at all. That there can be no middle ground. You understand that if I decide to buy some Nurglings or Electro Priests I'm going to do my damndest to try and make them work?

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
I dont understand people who dont play a game to win... You can have fun and win at the same time...

You do not buy a video game and voluntarily kill yourself everytime... ( unless youre playing GTA or ragdoll lol)

I don't understand people who think that the only alternative to WAAC is not caring about winning at all. That there can be no middle ground. You understand that if I decide to buy some Nurglings or Electro Priests I'm going to do my damndest to try and make them work?

You can buy them, and you certainly have the right to try and make them work... But you should know that in doing so you're intentially gimping yourself and shouldn't call people with optimized lists WAAC.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
So what are peoples oppinion about the Kastelan formation and the formation with the Kataphrons? I really want to run them next to my Skitarii. But not sure if they are any good with all the footslogging.

Kastelan formation is really nice. It's the only way to have a Dominus in a unit of Kastelans, which means access to the IWND Relic. Since the whole formation is deployed as a single unit, but counts as 3 for the purposes of Canticles it gives a nice little boost that way. Add in the Cognis relic armor and you have Kastelans that Overwatch/Snap Shoot on 5's or 6's with IWND and instantly activate their Protocols.

why can't I add a dominos to a robot unit? Is there something about adding a character to monstrous creatures that I don't remember in the rules?

buckero0 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
So what are peoples oppinion about the Kastelan formation and the formation with the Kataphrons? I really want to run them next to my Skitarii. But not sure if they are any good with all the footslogging.

Kastelan formation is really nice. It's the only way to have a Dominus in a unit of Kastelans, which means access to the IWND Relic. Since the whole formation is deployed as a single unit, but counts as 3 for the purposes of Canticles it gives a nice little boost that way. Add in the Cognis relic armor and you have Kastelans that Overwatch/Snap Shoot on 5's or 6's with IWND and instantly activate their Protocols.

why can't I add a dominos to a robot unit? Is there something about adding a character to monstrous creatures that I don't remember in the rules?

Page 166.

Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. They can join other Independent Characters, though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!