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Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run just one small squad of rangers, I have it set up so I can run a squad of 5 bare bones or a squad of 5 with 2 arquebuses. They are good ruin/objective campers. They aren't the shock troops that Vanguard are. Vanguard should be moving up the field or taking any kind of transport they can get their hands on to help them reach the target.

I use rangers for backfield objective holders as well. Generally I have a 5 man with omnispex and 2 arquebuses that are on transport popping duty, I always try to set them up so that they have a good view of all major lanes of movement, it makes the other person hide their metal boxes which gives me abit of breathing room to move my own guys up.

Of course it works better the more fragile transport options but it's still something divide attention away from other troops.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

I have been looking into actually using a 10-man squad of Corpuscarii, and surprisingly, I do not think 20 twin-linked S4 pseudo-Tesla shots at 12" is sub-par. I will test this in games, but the hypothetical is looking good.

Some issues I can see involve making the things survive shooting until the turn where they get within 12" of something, so infiltrating or outflanking them using MoA or just keeping to hard cover should help.

9 points per shot is annoying, however.

The statline of the Electro-Priests checks out with AdMech as presented. The absurd ppm cost is what kills them. They need serious assistance to fulfill their role, at which point other Imperial CC units are more effective/efficient.

I have Sicarians and Dragoons for CC. The Corpuscarii are for anti-horde. I can't fit enough Vanguard for effective anti-horde in a Convocation.

Perhaps keeping them out of line of sight on an objective until the enemy moves closer, and then advancing?

 Verviedi wrote:
I have Sicarians and Dragoons for CC. The Corpuscarii are for anti-horde. I can't fit enough Vanguard for effective anti-horde in a Convocation.

Ahhh, Convocation. Unit of Kataphron Destroyers with Plasma Culverins? Double the range on Corpuscarii, don't get hot because Convocation, double to knock down TEQ/MEQ, low BS counteracted by the nature of blasts. Or utilize Eradication Beamer Onagers within the Battle Maniple? Heck, you could even slot in a secondary Skitarii Maniple if needed for the low low cost of two units of Vanguard (which are anti-horde anyway).

Small blasts with BS3, without ignores cover? I honestly don't think Plasma Culverins are a good idea in any situation, except for perhaps a bunched-up TEQ list.

I like the idea of taking a Skitarii Maniple in addition to the Convocation. It definitely seems more effective than the Corpuscarii.

 Verviedi wrote:
Small blasts with BS3, without ignores cover? I honestly don't think Plasma Culverins are a good idea in any situation, except for perhaps a bunched-up TEQ list.

I like the idea of taking a Skitarii Maniple in addition to the Convocation. It definitely seems more effective than the Corpuscarii.

Blasts have a built-in 1/3 chance to hit regardless of BS. And the Corpuscarii don't ignore cover either, so I don't see the issue given as that's the comparison point. I'm not saying they're good anti-horde. I'm saying they're better than Corpuscarii at it. Six small blasts is six small blasts. Against a horde, they will do damage.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)

You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!

In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)

You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!

In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.

Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)

You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!

In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.

Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?

Naturally!

Personally, I find the Enhanced Data-Tether to be absolutely useless. It's a joke piece of equipment--a single point of Leadership while affected by a Doctrina Imperative for a single unit.

The Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, which comes standard on ALL Skitarii walkers, effectively takes the place of that with no real issues.
And to boot? BSDT has a 6" bubble--meaning you can grant it to all of your Skitarii infantry units with clever placement.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.

I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.

They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.

Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)

You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!

In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.

Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?

Naturally!

Personally, I find the Enhanced Data-Tether to be absolutely useless. It's a joke piece of equipment--a single point of Leadership while affected by a Doctrina Imperative for a single unit.

The Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, which comes standard on ALL Skitarii walkers, effectively takes the place of that with no real issues.
And to boot? BSDT has a 6" bubble--meaning you can grant it to all of your Skitarii infantry units with clever placement.

Thats right I always forget it has that on all walkers. So for five more points you mess with cover saves instead. I like that quite a bit.

Compared to the Vanguard, are rangers worth the price? If I wanted to play the rangers more aggressively that is.

I personally see omnispexes as mandatory, -1cover at a unlimited range 10pts and you dont give up a shooting attack? Sign me up.

Maybe it's because they've come though in clutches for me, but they synergize so well with the luminagen debuff that my kastelan's hand out like candy that I just don't see a point in not taking them.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

Thats right I always forget it has that on all walkers. So for five more points you mess with cover saves instead. I like that quite a bit.

Compared to the Vanguard, are rangers worth the price? If I wanted to play the rangers more aggressively that is.

That's going to depend entirely upon what the rest of your list is.

Personally, my Rangers play aggressively...to a point. They're there to pick off the enemy shooting units so that the Vanguard can close in and light everyone else up.

Kan, what ratio of Vanguard to Rangers do you run now? It's been a while since I've seen any lists you've made.

I believe in a 2:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.

In addition, why put Arc Rifles on Rangers rather than Vanguard? Vanguard would be much better to put the AR on, as they are 2 PPM less, and Rangers really provide no benefits to the AR. With Vanguard you'll want to be near 12" anyway, so I have found that they work much better with Arc.

 Verviedi wrote:
Kan, what ratio of Vanguard to Rangers do you run now? It's been a while since I've seen any lists you've made.

That's because I haven't been playing too much 40k lately. Last 40k game I played was a few weeks ago using the brother's Orks against a Guard player, so...
Been enjoying getting back to playing Fantasy.

I believe in a 2:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.

The plan, when everything is built, to have a 1:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.

In addition, why put Arc Rifles on Rangers rather than Vanguard? Vanguard would be much better to put the AR on, as they are 2 PPM less, and Rangers really provide no benefits to the AR.

Other than Move Through Cover...?

Seriously. MTC on a Ranger Squad with Arc Rifles, while it might seem a bit wasteful at first glance, is fantastic on a board with lots of cover and/or Dangerous Terrain.
Especially when you field a Ranger Alpha with Arc Pistol and Arc Maul.
Fire up the Arc Rifles, strip some HPs--charge with the AP/AM and finish the target off.

With Vanguard you'll want to be near 12" anyway, so I have found that they work much better with Arc.

18 inches works just fine for my two Vanguard Squads with Plasma Calivers.

So I ran the Holy Requisitioner formation today, the one where you deep strike the breachers and the Dominus, Dominus doesn't scatter if within 6'' of an objective and the breachers don't scatter if within 6 of him. Dropped them down near an Imperial knight in two arcs of fire, haywired it to death. They went on to kill Land Raider as well before dying. The dominus killed a few marines with his Eradication beamer and macrostubber. I would say they made their points back. If you don't have the ability to run the War Convocation, look into this formation. Worked out great for me.

I think that part of the point with Electro-Priests is that they are a cheap, by Mechanicus standards, way of getting your Canticles level up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I believe that as intended they are supposed to follow the Breachers, who will be providing a distraction unit (i.e., breaching) as the EPs get in range.

So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness

Have you tried straight up out shooting the tau? If you are playing war convocation position your dragoons in front of the knight then the dragoons can get2+ cover with shroudplasm and the knight can too. Or if they have alit of broadsides give the dunecrawlers cover and watch them poof from bs7 small blast str 10 shots. Our rangers pierce their armor, while they can't pierce ranger armor with pulse rifles. And since its str 5 you even keep the fnp. If their fusion suits are deep striking behind your knight/ crawlers, I like to stick coteaz with vanguard with plasma. No overheat, and coteaz also makes a nice no drop pod bubble for the inevitable marine match up. Getting alphad really hurts us like dark eldar. Honestly haven't lost to tau yet. Shroudplasm on our grav destroyers and take out markerligjt support.

 Orock wrote:
Have you tried straight up out shooting the tau? If you are playing war convocation position your dragoons in front of the knight then the dragoons can get2+ cover with shroudplasm and the knight can too. Or if they have alit of broadsides give the dunecrawlers cover and watch them poof from bs7 small blast str 10 shots. Our rangers pierce their armor, while they can't pierce ranger armor with pulse rifles. And since its str 5 you even keep the fnp. If their fusion suits are deep striking behind your knight/ crawlers, I like to stick coteaz with vanguard with plasma. No overheat, and coteaz also makes a nice no drop pod bubble for the inevitable marine match up. Getting alphad really hurts us like dark eldar. Honestly haven't lost to tau yet. Shroudplasm on our grav destroyers and take out markerligjt support.

Okay, that does sound like a reasonable way to beat them. Thank you!

How about outside the War con though?

Grav for the riptides, drop pods if you really want to ruin them. Honestly just tons of vanguard wreck them. Scout up and get in range. But drop pod vanguard and two units of grav destroyers works for me. Arc breachers are good for fish and sky spam.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness

Anti-Fire Warrior is one of the few uses for Rangers, and the sheer amount of Haywire we can take really ruins tanks' days.
As the previous poster said, grav for Riptides and Vanguard.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness

Anti-Fire Warrior is one of the few uses for Rangers, and the sheer amount of Haywire we can take really ruins tanks' days.
As the previous poster said, grav for Riptides and Vanguard.

Yes, but they really outrange and out maneuver us. I played a 2v2 game with myself and another mechanicus player versus orks and tau. The orks died horribly to the combined might of the mechanicus but the Tau were able to just stay in the back and jetpack out of range even if we get close enough. It was super annoying and there was really no way to counter that as we couldn't get across the board fast enough.

The problem is our units good at dealing with suits, the dragoons, die to fire warrior spam still. I have found when I play tau outflank warlord trait from the main book is king. If you come on the sides with 3 squads of vanguard, and maybe outflank infiltrators and rust stalkers, you can now down quite a bit. Other than that for hidden suits, your in a tough spot. I would say advance as much as you can up the board behind los blocking terrain.

Erm, Dragoons are most effective against vehicles, the lack of AP makes them better at glancing/penning out stuff with a AV due to being str 8 on the charge.

Suits are plasma vanguard or grav destroyers

Tau really dont outrange admech, either, its pretty even

They have the speed to catch even hideing. And str 8 doubles them out. You get a lot of hits with 6s adding two. And shroudplasm can grant 2+ cover from overwatch.