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The attitude is based on the context of the posts of my three main attackers, to which I've lumped all three together due to the arguments being identical. The compleat lack of reading comprehension on the part of all three of you is where the ire comes from. If each of you just took a moment to actually read the source material, read those links, and read GWs stance on their own material, this thread would have been one on how the weird biology of 40k works, rather than the constant attempts to invalidate the material based on the inability of each of you to see the bigger picture.

Wouldn't the discussion be more fascinating if we were talking about how a quintouple Helix with 20 base pairs could even work? Or how it is that Eldar could have effected Human development in pre-history? Or the relationship Eldar and Humanity had before the Fall?

Those would have been much topics than you guys saying "newer fluff makes old fluff invalid" when none of you seem to have even bothered to read the older fluff you think is invalid. It's like you are refusing to believe the U.S. dropped two atomic bombs on Japan because your history book says the U.S. dropped one bomb on Korea (not a made up example, U.S. high schools did print such an error in the early 90's, something we can thank the Texas Board of Education for).

I have never once stated the any of this was fact, or canon, or irrefutable. I have stated that GW's position on their own fluff is that it is all equally valid, to which they have said they treat it all as lies, propaganda, and legends. My pointing out that the existence of Human-Eldar hybrids in the older fluff means a closer relationship between the two races is just as valid as your argument that it should be impossible for Eldar biology to be compatible with Human biology. If the counter arguments weren't so ignorant, I would not need to keep pointing out why the counter arguments are so ignorant.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The attitude is based on the context of the posts of my three main attackers, to which I've lumped all three together due to the arguments being identical. The compleat lack of reading comprehension on the part of all three of you is where the ire comes from. If each of you just took a moment to actually read the source material, read those links, and read GWs stance on their own material, this thread would have been one on how the weird biology of 40k works, rather than the constant attempts to invalidate the material based on the inability of each of you to see the bigger picture.

Wouldn't the discussion be more fascinating if we were talking about how a quintouple Helix with 20 base pairs could even work? Or how it is that Eldar could have effected Human development in pre-history? Or the relationship Eldar and Humanity had before the Fall?

Those would have been much topics than you guys saying "newer fluff makes old fluff invalid" when none of you seem to have even bothered to read the older fluff you think is invalid. It's like you are refusing to believe the U.S. dropped two atomic bombs on Japan because your history book says the U.S. dropped one bomb on Korea (not a made up example, U.S. high schools did print such an error in the early 90's, something we can thank the Texas Board of Education for).

I have never once stated the any of this was fact, or canon, or irrefutable. I have stated that GW's position on their own fluff is that it is all equally valid, to which they have said they treat it all as lies, propaganda, and legends. My pointing out that the existence of Human-Eldar hybrids in the older fluff means a closer relationship between the two races is just as valid as your argument that it should be impossible for Eldar biology to be compatible with Human biology. If the counter arguments weren't so ignorant, I would not need to keep pointing out why the counter arguments are so ignorant.

SJ

I've been on neither side of this debate.
- in fact, some of my posts were the most concessionary towards your view.

This post by you has changed my opinion, not of the argument, but about you. You have been rude to me for no good reason (and I don't care if it was because the others irked you).

Goodbye.

Let's do the maths.

Anything and nothing is canon, and anything can just be rumours or propaganda. Nastase is mentioned 1 time. Imperium's extreme xenophobia (more than enough to keep any Xeno out of Imperial elite forces) has a lot more mentions - let's say 75ish explicit mentions of Imperial alien-hate, and far more implications (we'll be nice and exclude those, but don't forget them). Then we have a couple of lists showing every member of the UM chapter, where Nastase and his rank is absent. Then, Xenology. If any of those are true, they disprove Nastase's existence. Let's say 80ish in total, between novels, codices, rulebooks etc.

This estimation is quite generous in Nastase's favour, but the odds are still against him - every last one of the above mentions must turn out to be rumours, and Nastase's must turn out to be true. If even one of them is true, Nastase becomes automatically disproved since they are incompatible. Thus, the odds of Nastase actually existing in the 'real' 40k are something like 80^2, or 1 in 6400.

I don't see any problems with flat out disregarding him when the odds are that extreme.

Edit: Actually it is one in 6561, since not only must all evidence disproving his existence be rumours, the article that says he exists at all must also not be a rumour.

This calculation also disregards the fact that more consistent 40k facts are more likely to be true simply because they are consistent, not because they are numerous. In addition, Nastase's fluff is more likely to be non-canon simply because it is old and a greater percentage of older background fluff is obsolete. Therefore the actual odds would probably be even lower than 1 in 6561, but I'll be even nicer and disregard that too.

Of course, 80 was just a given number. It could be even more.

But I hope the point is clear.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The attitude is based on the context of the posts of my three main attackers, to which I've lumped all three together due to the arguments being identical. The compleat lack of reading comprehension on the part of all three of you is where the ire comes from. If each of you just took a moment to actually read the source material, read those links, and read GWs stance on their own material, this thread would have been one on how the weird biology of 40k works, rather than the constant attempts to invalidate the material based on the inability of each of you to see the bigger picture.

Wouldn't the discussion be more fascinating if we were talking about how a quintouple Helix with 20 base pairs could even work? Or how it is that Eldar could have effected Human development in pre-history? Or the relationship Eldar and Humanity had before the Fall?

Those would have been much topics than you guys saying "newer fluff makes old fluff invalid" when none of you seem to have even bothered to read the older fluff you think is invalid. It's like you are refusing to believe the U.S. dropped two atomic bombs on Japan because your history book says the U.S. dropped one bomb on Korea (not a made up example, U.S. high schools did print such an error in the early 90's, something we can thank the Texas Board of Education for).

I have never once stated the any of this was fact, or canon, or irrefutable. I have stated that GW's position on their own fluff is that it is all equally valid, to which they have said they treat it all as lies, propaganda, and legends. My pointing out that the existence of Human-Eldar hybrids in the older fluff means a closer relationship between the two races is just as valid as your argument that it should be impossible for Eldar biology to be compatible with Human biology. If the counter arguments weren't so ignorant, I would not need to keep pointing out why the counter arguments are so ignorant.

SJ

Ahh, if you'd have added a might in there, that would have been almost beautiful. All it needed was to read, 'might mean a closer relationship between', without its just as ignorant as you claim everyone else's position is. As if is, it reads 'no one knows for sure what anything is, so all positions are equally valid, but mines more valid'

Actually, I said my opinion is just as valid as your opinion, while attacking the fluff with the fluff is kind of dumb.

SJ

I am aware of what the words actually said, but what they actually say, and how they are read and interpreted are two completely different things.

And just a point as I've been having a look through some of the earlier pages of this, I actually asked how eldar and human DNA would interact, hoping we'd be able to talk about it. Instead of replying to it, you decided to ignore that, and move on to another comment. So the point I'm adding here, that I really don't want to discuss, is that if you think it would have been so much more interesting to have that conversation, why did you ignore a chance to have it?

Edit-In fact the more of the old posts I read, the more it becomes apparent you just wanted a fight here. Numerous times people asked you a question, or made a point, being quitereasonable with you, and just got ignored, or had you act quite rudely. Is it actually any real surprise this seems to have gone completely downhill as a result?

Weird. I was sure I posted that most likely one of the five side was Human comparable.

SJ

You did, numerous pages later when everyone was already pissed off with the attitude you were using

The attitude was a result of the content directed towards me. My apologies. I have attempted a number times to redirect the thread back to an additive dialog.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 anticitizen013 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Ultramarine Chief Astropath Illiyan Nastase, born to a human mother and Eldar father after the Badab War, would be one example.

SJ

I had to look it up... http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Illiyan_Nastase

Enjoy

Which proves that different people have different opinions? Nastase is an example from GW, that has a model, a printed backstory, and fits the point I made that humans and Eldar are cousins within the same branch of hominid. Move the goal post all you want, but you can't disprove it.

SJ

So what was the content here then? Some guy who hadn't actually said anything on that topic up until that point posted a link to an article about him, for those that know nothing about it, and you attack him for it

He also got the rank of Nastase wrong.

He's Chief Librarian Astropath Illiyan Nastase of the Ultramarines (third founding chapter raised to replace the traitorous 13th legion who fled to the Eye of Terror).

Also, he says he would be one example, kind of implying there are others...

There are others, including an unnamed character in a recent novel, a female half-Eldar.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There are others, including an unnamed character in a recent novel, a female half-Eldar.

SJ

If I remember and understand correctly, it is never actually said that female one is a hybrid, its alluded to being one from what I understand. However I've not encountered it myself so I have no idea.

 statu wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There are others, including an unnamed character in a recent novel, a female half-Eldar.

SJ

If I remember and understand correctly, it is never actually said that female one is a hybrid, its alluded to being one from what I understand. However I've not encountered it myself so I have no idea.

It's fan service for RT fans, when Half-Eldar were a mentioned thing.

SJ

Out of interest, what piece is it in?