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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

designing minis to look good without too much difficulty is hardly proof of the game being aimed at teenagers. one could argue it's aimed at people who simply don't have the time to paint minis. or people who'd like to have decent painted minis without spending ages learning how.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

Teenagers are far from the only ones who struggle with painting.

And GW's 3-step system is a handy tool even for those of us who do have more experience. If they hadn't already driven me off to other brands with their constant range and colour changes, I would have been all over the 3-step system... and I've been painting models for more than 25 years now.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.

Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?

Superior models don't matter if they are incompatible with your existing armies. If I'm going to a brand new game I might as well look for superior rules.

But nobody is forcing us to play 9th. I certainly won't be using it if what I'm hearing is accurate. "More streamlined like 40k, faster game, quicker magic phase. Smaller skirmish like forces( sounds like 40k 2nd but I'm betting it's just the low model count) with a book for mass battles "

Which means probably what they did to 40k third i.e. a complete new game with just a similar name and some of the background copied over.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

designing minis to look good without too much difficulty is hardly proof of the game being aimed at teenagers. one could argue it's aimed at people who simply don't have the time to paint minis. or people who'd like to have decent painted minis without spending ages learning how.

have no idea how old you are or if you were into the hobby in the late 1980s/Early 1990s, but back then, it was a lot tougher. Dodgy paints, hardly any support (apart from the odd article in WD) and metal miniatures which were a complete and utter pain in the rear to assemble if you were new to the hobby.

I wouldn't say the hobby has 'dumbed down' but thanks to technology and wall to wall tutorials, it certainly feels much easier to what we had back then. I'm not knocking the new stuff, it's good, if a little expensive.


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 insaniak wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

Teenagers are far from the only ones who struggle with painting.

And GW's 3-step system is a handy tool even for those of us who do have more experience. If they hadn't already driven me off to other brands with their constant range and colour changes, I would have been all over the 3-step system... and I've been painting models for more than 25 years now.

I make the same point to you as I did above to the other poster.

I'm sorry Do_I_Not_Like_That, but "U WOT M8?!"

Complaining about how much better painting nowadays is seems ridiculous. Yes, today IS easier and you have to thanks the Gods above for that: Base paints, shades, glazes, mediums, highlights, texture paints, heck, even technical paints, are all a bloody God-send.

Better results with less work / time spent IS a good thing, it's not "Perfect for the xbox generation". And no, you still have to practice and work hard to paint, it's not like you can dump a miniature in a bottle of paint and BOOM, done.

*AHEM* On topic: I'm curious to see what changes they make. I'm not a Fantasy player but always had some interest in the minis.

And well, even if changes radically to the bubble-verse, it's not like GW will kick-down your door, gather your fantasy armies and old codecis and throws them into a fire, right? :p

What a load of tosh.

That neck must be bloody sore with a chip that big resting on your shoulder DINLT.

Just because there is more effort to make the hobby accessable, it doesn't mean they are going for a younger audience. And I still use my paints (the few I have left) from 1st Ed 40K days, they are far from awful.

And since you seem to like awful minis that are a pain to put together and paint, you'll have a great time with Mantic. Just stick to the early KoW models, the newer Mantic stuff is far too 'accessable' and 'teenager-aimed'

As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Why do you assume that GW will continue to produce certain models? When your faction gets squatted or reduced to a single unit or two in a combined faction list, the more unique units are likely to go the way of the dodo. So, once Mantic start incorporating these orphaned units in...if you want another? Well, you can either trawl e-bay and pay extortionate prices for certain things. You can beg and plead for sales. Or you can assume GW will continue to produce models that are 'squatted' or forgotten about.

I'll swing with that assumption, and then if its wrong, I'd still rather add to my army with "exorbitantly priced ebay finds" rather than Mantic's models, as they don't even remotely fit together (I have Empire). I have lots of models from other companies in my Empire army: Raging Heroes, Guild of Harmony, Avatars of War, Gamezone, etc. They all fit pretty well. Because of how Mantic has handled that aesthetic, theirs just don't. Same with their Orcs. Same with their Ogres. Same with the Dwarfs.

Forget the difference in quality (which I do believe is significant, mind you); many of the lines simply don't mesh with the GW lines aesthetically.

SeanDrake wrote:

In the past 5-7 years the only advantage gw had other than being ubiquitous, is the fluff and they have gone out of the way to slaughter that like a sister of battle and bathe in it's blood.

If there was ever a sig-worthy line...

...Exalted!

You're well on your way to Daemonhood now!

migooo wrote:


But nobody is forcing us to play 9th.

And then there's this.

8th Edition works really well. It's very fun. We're going to be sticking with it here.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.

...and I'm 36.

To be honest their approach with paints works. Cause I've done more painting than I ever did pre 2012. Since then, my painting has gone from god awful slop-dosh to a pretty acceptable tabletop standard.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
I'm sorry Do_I_Not_Like_That, but "U WOT M8?!"

Complaining about how much better painting nowadays is seems ridiculous. Yes, today IS easier and you have to thanks the Gods above for that: Base paints, shades, glazes, mediums, highlights, texture paints, heck, even technical paints, are all a bloody God-send.

Better results with less work / time spent IS a good thing, it's not "Perfect for the xbox generation". And no, you still have to practice and work hard to paint, it's not like you can dump a miniature in a bottle of paint and BOOM, done.

*AHEM* On topic: I'm curious to see what changes they make. I'm not a Fantasy player but always had some interest in the minis.

And well, even if changes radically to the bubble-verse, it's not like GW will kick-down your door, gather your fantasy armies and old codecis and throws them into a fire, right? :p

I'm not complaining about the new stuff. I clearly state I like the new stuff. In my opinion, it's easier nowadays compared to 25 ago.


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The Division Of Joy wrote:
What a load of tosh.

That neck must be bloody sore with a chip that big resting on your shoulder DINLT.

Just because there is more effort to make the hobby accessable, it doesn't mean they are going for a younger audience. And I still use my paints (the few I have left) from 1st Ed 40K days, they are far from awful.

And since you seem to like awful minis that are a pain to put together and paint, you'll have a great time with Mantic. Just stick to the early KoW models, the newer Mantic stuff is far too 'accessable' and 'teenager-aimed'

You could criticise my point without resorting to ad hominem attacks, please.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.

I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.

...and I'm 36.

You may take offense, but none was intended. I expressed an opinion, you have expressed yours. For the record, I like the new paints.

Sounds fun, hope it's true.

There's a real leap to make the assertion that assorted new products that have made turning out a decent miniature easier = being aimed at teenagers.

If you'd said aimed at new hobbyists, you might have found some agreement*, but even that doesn't ring true. As had been pointed out, some people struggle with the painting aspect of the hobby far more than others and do so for years. If a product line has tools designed to help them produce decent results then that's great for everyone.

By the by, Reaper and Wargames Foundry (and probably some other paint companies I don't know about) use a triad system with an out of the bottle shadow, mid-tone and highlight. AFAIK they've done this for ages and while it requires a bit more skill to use than base, wash, highlight it's still a mode of simplifying the painting process for people. Neither of these companies could exactly be accused of being aimed at teenagers. Rather, they have put in place a system (should people choose to take advantage of it) that helps provide the framework for decent results.


(*personally I think GW has lost interest in new hobbyists, viewing them as an added bonus if they happen to show up, and is focusing on extracting money from the vets who still buy from them. But that's a whole other discussion... )

Just to clear a few things up.

1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!

2) I like the new GW paints. I think they're expensive, but I like them. Just in case that was missed, I like the new GW paints.

3) I'm not criticising people for not being good at painting. I'm hardly great myself and if people find the new paints easier, I'm happy for you. Really happy. IN MY OPINION, the hobby was harder in the 1980s.

Glad to clear that up.

Back OT.

I hope 9th has an expansive ruleset so that people can move from skirmish to bigger battles, like what they did with the LOTR stuff. The two systems worked quite well.

The new line makes painting easier, IMO.

Just look at the quality of the "My first mini!" in the Paint sections compared to what we churned out at first ('we' being gamers in our mid 30s, who started at around age 11).

ON Topic - The proposed contents seem pretty solid, and *gasp* BALANCED. That should stop a little bit of pishing and whining, right?!

 Bottle wrote:
As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.

I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?

Away with you Bottle, with your logic.

Begone Manfred, with your level headedness.

THERE IS NO PLACE FOR YOU HERE.

Isnt this a bit early for a new edition release, as in, these are normally later in the year, like June\July?

Also I believe the next BIG release is going to be a single box EP{IC game, I have heard this from quite a few places within GW at warhammer fest and in the shop, but again often stores don't know whats coming.

But the hint about SOMETHING BIG makes me think its a word play and its going to be an epic boxed game.

9th ed is coming I would have thought end of may\mid june.

Still not sold on round bases as actually happening in any way.

 Rick_1138 wrote:


EPIC

Oh man, I would love this. I missed out on Epic/Titan Legions etc for whatever reason. I recall the Imperial Fists and the desert boards used in White Dwarf.

I had an EPIC scale metal Thunderhawk. That was AWESOME.

Do not quote me on this and its as solid as any other rumour, but I have heard it enough times now by folk who would be in a position to know to talk about it.

We will see.

These rumours are so vague they might as well say "9th Ed box will come with some miniatures!".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
These rumours are so vague they might as well say "9th Ed box will come with some miniatures!".

That's not rumour, that's fact

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.

Really? I haven't met anyone under 30 who could afford this hobby in years. GW seems to agree, given how all the recent releases are rehashes of 80s ideas that only grognards can appreciate.

Rick_1138 wrote:Do not quote me on this and its as solid as any other rumour, but I have heard it enough times now by folk who would be in a position to know to talk about it.

We will see.

Nope, you've pretty much promised it now

H.B.M.C. wrote:These rumours are so vague they might as well say "9th Ed box will come with some miniatures!".

"Or not - we haven't decided! Just keep buying stuff until we do..."

Small scale?

10 warriors, 5 knights, 2 characters, some daemons and a monster?

that could easily be 1000 points of chaos

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Just to clear a few things up.

1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!

The only time I've ever seen any teenagers play the game is at an actual GW, and they last a couple weeks before they stop playing. At every FLGS or convention where 40k or WHFB is played, I only see people 20+, who have full time jobs, paint well, convert models, do dioramas, and are usually drunk if the place allows it.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.

...and I'm 36.

You may take offense, but none was intended. I expressed an opinion, you have expressed yours. For the record, I like the new paints.

Younger kids end up at GW stores as they may not know of other stores or have no way of having a full table and terrain setup in their parents house.

I always saw more people 21+ playing GW games then i did younger kids