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Wonderwolf wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:


WHO?!? I have NEVER heard a fantasy player ever utter the phrase "Boy this game would be better if we removed force org restrictions!"

I have also NEVER heard a fantasy/40K player ever utter the phrase "Boy this on-BoLS-first-rumour was totally spot on and indicative of what came out later".

Doesn't matter. They shovelled the same BS for 40k in White Dwarf when they released this edition to peddle the new lack of balance as a fan request to play every fig they ever owned together... instead of the obvious desire to sell every fig GW ever made to every player. I don't recall any players wanting every single game of 40k to be turned into apocalypse yet it happened. :(

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
via BoLS

via Atia 5-28-2015

Regarding the new “Age of Sigmar” product for WFB 9th:






ladys and gentlemen

i confirm the upcoming release of Age of Sigmar



That image indicates a product page for “Age of Sigmar” exists on the GW website, but is currently not redirecting to another placeholder page until it is used.

so we have a name, but whether it's the main 9th box set, the skirmish thing or some other wonder/distaster we wait to see

Age of Legends /Age of Sigmar - really like the stories and characters so that's a positive.

Can field a Human/Dwarf/Vampire Alliance - short lived in the lore but effective in battle

Mort wrote:Is there really something so terribly wrong with hoping that we get -both-? After all, with the prices we pay for their product, I think it makes sense to get two games for the price of one.

Frankly, I think you're all wishlisting a bit if you think that 9E will be both a skirmish game and a mass battle game. The best 'support' I can come up with for this is if War of the Rings - with its round bases, its unit trays, and its relation to the skirmish-y Lord of the Rings - is being used as the model for 9E. Which we don't have much evidence for, except that they're being made by the same company and round bases are one of only two really consistent rumors we've gotten for 9E (the other being limited initial factions).

Though, seriously - some days you feel like a nut... some days you don't. If I don't own Mordheim and don't wanna shell out the $ for it, but the new fantasy edition comes with a skirmish version AND a mass-battles version in one book - why would that get anyone's panties in a bunch?

My own panties get bunched up by all the folks (the vast majority of whom do not currently play 8E) clamoring for a move away from mass battles and towards skirmish for WHFB. Glance through this thread and you'll find a startling number of them. Now peeps are posting more sane things like simply scaling the mass battle of 8E down to a slightly-less-mass battle of 9E. Like Accolade, who I wanted to give a general shout out to anyway:

Accolade wrote:Personally, I think the last few editions just dialed it up a little too far and were they to rewind to a game about, let's say, 3/4th the size (and address gripes of 8th), things would be fine.

And by 'sane' I mean 'more in touch with what WHFB has been about for decades' (as in, not a handful of things skirmishing hither and thither).

As for Mordheim, you know all the rules are entirely free, right? GeeDub has nothing to sell you, the Internet has taken it all back. All you need are a couple handfuls of whatever freewheeling modeling you fancy - which includes putting all of one of those shiny ten model 'unit' boxes to work

Mort wrote:Maybe they're introducing some new mechanic that might be more interesting than the aged Mordheim mechanic?

Though as for Mordheim, I do agree that the actual mechanics leave something to be desired. 6E was not my favorite edition of WHFB, and actually the one that I left for 3E 40k until 7E hit

wana10 wrote:Personally I'm hoping for more of a regression in unit size back to the ~5th edition-ish days. Where a box set provided a unit that could actually make a tactical difference in the battle. Back when if you saw 30 dudes in a block it was probably just goblins or slaves. Back when most of your models on the table didn't feel so much like worthless wound counters.

I've said it before, but the current late meta for 8E really doesn't have all that many models in each army, particularly massed infantry. The game is about characters + monstrous cav + monsters + cav + artillery, with maybe monstrous infantry in the right army / unit. I get what you're saying, but despite the buffs given to infantry by 8E, the armybooks, particularly in the last two years, have skewed things quite a bit. For better or worse I suppose. My real gripe about 8E armies are deathstar builds, which are distressingly supported by the rules (largely due to VP scoring). Will 9E solve the issue of your opponent stuffing all his/her characters into one uber-unit and forcing the game to revolve around this single blob? Skirmish would solve the issue ... but is like the scorched earth solution for me, because I'd be playing something else.

Ya'll keep talking about dialing things back from 8E, which has me thinking about 7E, an edition I enjoyed but nothing close to as much as I have 8E. In 6E, chain panics made me go play another game. In 7E, my units really felt like so many wound counters, with just the front rank able to do anything at all, and only after waiting for killier things to leave some of them around to swing. In 8E, units suddenly could do real work, thanks to step-up. I got to roll more dice, I got to kill things with all these dudes I'd built, etc. I'm pretty sure folks complaining about unit bloat are griping about steadfast - you don't hear me complaining about unit size, because on the flip side, step-up gave my units a purpose beyond taking up space, escorting characters and dying.

Long post, but related parable from 7E and why it was fethed. One time while playing DE (maybe the best 7E book) with my OK (maybe the worst 7E army), an assassin charged into a bull unit and killed the two ogres he was in contact with, with total and reliable ease. Without steadfast, the four ogres left could never hope to hold; without step-up, they couldn't even squash the little T3 no save bugger. The lads were run down, and the assassin set up for his next charge (admittedly this took longer in 7E due to no free reform after combat). He charged another unit, killed two ogres, ran them down, set up. I realized that, given enough turns, this single model could kill my entire ogre army, due to the mechanics of the game. 8E dropped a couple months later.

Tl;dr - BS wrote a wall of text, is going to go be quiet and paint Mordheim for another week or so, barring real 9E developments.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Ya'll keep talking about dialing things back from 8E, which has me thinking about 7E, an edition I enjoyed but nothing close to as much as I have 8E. In 6E, chain panics made me go play another game. In 7E, my units really felt like so many wound counters, with just the front rank able to do anything at all, and only after waiting for killier things to leave some of them around to swing. In 8E, units suddenly could do real work, thanks to step-up. I got to roll more dice, I got to kill things with all these dudes I'd built, etc. I'm pretty sure folks complaining about unit bloat are griping about steadfast - you don't hear me complaining about unit size, because on the flip side, step-up gave my units a purpose beyond taking up space, escorting characters and dying.

Long post, but related parable from 7E and why it was fethed. One time while playing DE (maybe the best 7E book) with my OK (maybe the worst 7E army), an assassin charged into a bull unit and killed the two ogres he was in contact with, with total and reliable ease. Without steadfast, the four ogres left could never hope to hold; without step-up, they couldn't even squash the little T3 no save bugger. The lads were run down, and the assassin set up for his next charge (admittedly this took longer in 7E due to no free reform after combat). He charged another unit, killed two ogres, ran them down, set up. I realized that, given enough turns, this single model could kill my entire ogre army, due to the mechanics of the game. 8E dropped a couple months later.

Quoted For Truth and Exhalted. I've been exploring warmachine. Skirmish game featuring piece trading mechanics. 6th and 7th Ed warhammer felt like cumbersome, exceedingly expensive versions of the same. 8th actually feels like a clash between armies. I hope 9th does not deviate too far from 8th, while reigning in the deathstars a bit and making basic troops a bit more useful.

8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

Boss Salvage wrote:

Though, seriously - some days you feel like a nut... some days you don't. If I don't own Mordheim and don't wanna shell out the $ for it, but the new fantasy edition comes with a skirmish version AND a mass-battles version in one book - why would that get anyone's panties in a bunch?

My own panties get bunched up by all the folks (the vast majority of whom do not currently play 8E) clamoring for a move away from mass battles and towards skirmish for WHFB. Glance through this thread and you'll find a startling number of them. Now peeps are posting more sane things like simply scaling the mass battle of 8E down to a slightly-less-mass battle of 9E. Like Accolade, who I wanted to give a general shout out to anyway:

Accolade wrote:Personally, I think the last few editions just dialed it up a little too far and were they to rewind to a game about, let's say, 3/4th the size (and address gripes of 8th), things would be fine.

And by 'sane' I mean 'more in touch with what WHFB has been about for decades' (as in, not a handful of things skirmishing hither and thither).

Problem is I think the term 'skirmish' for games can be a bit vague. Sometimes it means a small gang skirmishing hither and thither, like Necromunda or Mordheim. Other times it means something less than Warhammer's couple of hundred models - a platoon's worth or two - occasionally on individual bases in a kind of cloud, running through and past and around eachother, rather than an infantry block. As far as I've seen, the rumours of 9th ed skirmish fall more in the latter circle of the gaming venn diagram; more in line with what you (Boss Salvage) and Accolade want, rather than gang skirmish. (I'm still not sure about it'll be all round bases or keeping unit blocks, or switching between the two. I don't think any of us know that, do we? In any case there are a couple of games out there that manage to combine the two in some fashion.)

As for Mordheim, you know all the rules are entirely free, right? GeeDub has nothing to sell you, the Internet has taken it all back. All you need are a couple handfuls of whatever freewheeling modeling you fancy - which includes putting all of one of those shiny ten model 'unit' boxes to work

Beat me to it! I was going to say that I can guarantee you definitely won't shell out as many '$' for Mordheim as you will for Warhammer 9th ed. I'll go so far as to say - before any number-crunching - that you could very likely take your pick of a number of excellent sets of fantasy skirmish and fantasy mass battle rules, one of each, including army lists or the means for army creation and selection, and still get a much better price (and better game) than wotever single book GW will offer you in a few weeks' time.

Heck, a lot of fantasy mass battle games are much better suited to mass battles than Warhammer ever was, but will still let you make use of those shiny ten model boxes for one unit, and fewer models overall.

 Hulksmash wrote:
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

The rules play no small part in the problems and decline of WHFB. But probably not in the way most people mean. A weakly balanced and out-of-touch ruleset will drive some people away, for sure. But the big part the 8th Edition rules play lies in the numbers required for the game. Even though the horde craze died down a bit over time, 8th edition, by design, pushed up the numbers quite a bit. Big blocks of infantry became much, MUCH better than in 7th and 6th. 8th buffed huge blocks of infantry by such a huge margin and nerfed traditional low-model pointsinks like chariots and monsters and made mass the new thing to go to. The suggested game size became 2500 to 3000 points, up from 2000 in addition to many choices becoming cheaper. 7th already pushed up the model count, but 8th pushed the boundaries even farther. Compare the model count of a usual army nowadays to 6th edition. My lizards had two (smaller!) blocks of saurus, two dozen of skinks, five chameleon skinks, two salamanders, a stegadon and a few heroes. The entire army had less models than some hordes nowadays! A stegadon and a slann ate up practically half of your points. Same thing goes for Empire, a Steam Tank or War Altar used to cost an enormous chunk of your army.

Now, I'm not saying that we should go back to the days of MSU, but the size creep is very much real.

 Hulksmash wrote:
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

That is like, your opinion man... I can't think of a single thing, rules wise that is better in 8th compared to 6th or 7th...

The rules were what killed Fantasy in my gaming group.

It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.

There was no time for the price shock to set in, because when GW decided to up the prices in the Fantasy range, no one was playing it already.

PhantomViper wrote:
It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.

And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.

And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.

- Salvage

Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...

8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

That depends entirely on the armies you are comparing not the system.

Compare grey knights elite army in 40k to orcs and goblins horde army in fantasy and fantasy has the more figures
compare a tyranid swarm army in 40k to an ogre army in fantasy and 40k has far more figures

PhantomViper wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

That is like, your opinion man... I can't think of a single thing, rules wise that is better in 8th compared to 6th or 7th...

Yep its all just opinion

8th had a lot of good things - premeasuring being a huge bonus - no more wasted time or people "working" out the distance thorugh various methods, best thing they ever did.
Step up was a very good thing

Magic on the other hand just went a bit nuts

PhantomViper wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.

And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.

- Salvage

Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...

Boss Salvage is entirely correct in saying that tournament WHFB, not just in the NE but the entire US, seems to be at a high right now for participation. Granted, the last 6-9 months of End Times rules jumbling and the looming 9th Ed has hurt numbers most recently, but aside from that, there are more tournaments throughout the US than there were at the beginning of 8th, with more people playing.

If you look at the MW, Adepticon two years ago was at or over 100 participants, this year it was a bit down but still in the 80s (ET rules flux caused a bit of a dip IMO). Waaghpaca is thriving at 100 entrants (IIRC) and numerous other tournaments are maxing out at what they are aiming for (BiTS, Northstar, and Buckeye Battles have similar numbers, with Screw City close to that as well). Plus, there are numerous new tournaments that are having very solid numbers for turnout for being new GTs (Holy Wars GT hit their max and had a wait list, Lady of the Lake GT is getting solid numbers even with it being in a more outlying area and the Windy City Showdown in Chicago this fall is up to 32 pre-registered, which is a great number for a new tournament). For proof to this, check out the Warscore website and you can see the list of tournaments that are using that to get an idea, as I would say maybe 25% of tournaments in the U.S. are using that (and that is probably a generous guess).

It seems like the UK is seeing similarly large interest in tournaments, with Southcoast getting around 170ish participants and many other tourneys selling out on a very consistent basis (from what I have heard on various UK podcasts).

GW's sales for Fantasy has no correlation to how healthy a tournament scene is. Most tournament players either have everything already and have for some time or are getting more into converting using different ranges and some bits from their previous GW purchases. Most people do it because they like the aesthetics of other models or want something that looks unique. Others just don't want to pay the price for GW or are frustrated with their practices. But, ever since GW got out of the tournament game, there is no longer any correlation between those two numbers.

PhantomViper wrote:
Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...

Meh, I never claimed Fantasy was selling like crazy up here or you live in a sad anomalous pocket of Fantasy hate, just that the tournaments my clubmates and I go to seem to have shown pretty consistent attendance throughout 8E. Attendance numbers are surprisingly hard to dig up since Rankings HQ went down, but the tournament I've gone to throughout 8E, the Crossroads GT, saw the following:

2010 > 72
2011 > 68
2012 > 78
2013 > 102
2014 > 103 (+ ~80 in extra spring event)
2015 > ??? (+ 77 in extra spring event)

And consistently sold out within hours before moving to a larger venue. I'd love to toss up numbers for Conflict, Colonial and Carnage, but like I said, it's hard to find anything.

Long standing events in the US seem to do better than global tournament attendance suggests. I'm thinking of the various westcoast stuff, and those big tournies in the middle, from the Alamo to Brawler Bash and so on. Sure, it's the same 80-100 people in each region attending these things, but what more do you want for a thriving GT scene country-wide?

EDIT: HobbyBox has more deets, props for that!

If we want to contemplate dips in WHFB competitive play, we might keep in mind that - at least AFAIK - the system's real competition started to come to maturity during 8E. Warmachine: Prime Mk2 landed in January 2010, followed by Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8E in July 2010, Flames of War in March 2012, and so on.

- Salvage

One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.

 Hulksmash wrote:
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies

This. If they stick with the "well you have to spend about a grand to get the full game experience" rules, this will be the last edition, and the game will be dead. Nobody around here has started a new fantasy army in years. Even people picking up the end times books just dusted off some older armies they have. The newer chaos models, skaven models, and whatever else they have released have languised on the shelves, save for what can be used in 40k as well, or for conversions for 40k.

I concur that some aspects of 8th were ok, notably the step up rule which better illustrated close combat.

However I loathed the horde rule as it was totally abstract and was clearly a cynical revenue generating ploy.

 mikhaila wrote:
I just said screw it and scheduled a WFB tournament at my shop for the 21st.

If the rules don't appear, we'll play 40k or magic

Tired of waiting on GW, and never having time to schedule launch weekends like I used to.

............................................................................................................................................................................

I'm thinking.....a dangerous process in and of itself!....that since we don't have a squats chance in hell of getting information from GW about the next edition of Warhammer Fantasy, that I'm just going to make a make a guess and go with that. There are 'rumors' all over the various gaming sites, but no solid info of any sort.
I'm guessing the next version warhammer comes out June 20th, 2015. Lets go with that.
So let it be written, so let it be done!!!!
We will be up late on Friday night at the Swarthmore store with food and refreshments, and spend a few hours switching models to round bases (if that's true?). Have some fun, read the new rules, goof off, maybe try a game.
Sunday June 21st we'll hold the first 9th edition tournament. And yes, you'll need your own copy of the game to play in the tournament. It will be amusing enough to play with barely any rules knowledge. Having people who don't even own the book and havent read it at all would be silly.
No cost for the tournament. No real requirements on painting or modeling other than no stupid proxies, or hideous clay sculptures. If you don't have the model, you don't proxie something for it.
If they have both Skirmish and large game rules, we'll play the new skirmish version.
We'll play two rounds, try for three rounds if it goes well. Winners vs winners, but prizes will be random and provided by the store.
No entry fee. Free food. Free prizes. No whining.
No, really, i'm guessing this time. I've begged GW for info. Best i got was "well, probably we'll have WFB this mid summer...maybe". More info as we beat it out of them.

We really want you to sell our stuff and we're stifling online sales and saying it's to support you BUT we're not going to say a damn thing until a week or two before we actually release anything so you have zero chance to do us a solid and drum up more sales for you and us.

Yeah. Hell of a way to run a retail company.

Well, I guess with Dark Angel rumor coming out for the end of June kind of kills our chances of getting a late June release for 9th edition.

Salvage, I see you're in Albany: do you play at Zombie Planet? Has the turnout been that good there? I grew up in Oneonta, an hour away, and for a small town we used to have 12-16 man tourneys in 6th and 7th edition. It went to 5 of us playing in my friend's basement during 8th, before I quit Warhammer. Then down to four. My friend tried to drum support back up, but better games have been stealing everyone's time.

I am definitely considering fantasy. However, if they 40k fantasy... nope nope nope. Awaiting 9th anxiously....

 doktor_g wrote:
I am definitely considering fantasy. However, if they 40k fantasy... nope nope nope. Awaiting 9th anxiously....

Can agree. I'm already playing Fantasyhammer 40,000 (some armies more than others). If I was to get interested in 9th edition, it would be because Fantasy's differences from 40k.

That said, when a lot of people (including me) say they are looking forward to a "skirmish" game, it think its a combination of nostalgia and wanting a game with a smaller initial buy-in. One of the biggest complaints I've heard from Fantasy players is how expensive it is and how many models you need to field an army at the proper points level, even by the high standards of 40k.

I can buy into a game where magic is massively powerful and OTT, but it needs enough drawbacks and skill involved to make it worthwhile for both opponents, and not a guaranteed nuke.

This. If they stick with the "well you have to spend about a grand to get the full game experience" rules, this will be the last edition, and the game will be dead. Nobody around here has started a new fantasy army in years. Even people picking up the end times books just dusted off some older armies they have. The newer chaos models, skaven models, and whatever else they have released have languised on the shelves, save for what can be used in 40k as well, or for conversions for 40k.

I see this complaint a lot. But it has nothing to do with the rules, its the prices. Historicals manage mass battle armies without needing a mortage to get. Mantic do the same, and if a small startup company can the a huge international like gw can as well.

In 1991 skeleton army box containing 30 infantry, 8 cavlry and a chariot cost £9.99, if it had gone up with inflation it would cost £20 today, whereas infact they charge more lik £60 for those kinds of content.

(inflation info checked here http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html - £1 in 1991 would be worth £2.03 today)

What gw need to do is make core infantry cheap and cheerful while making the special, rare and characters more detailed expensive kits so people can get into the hobby, a mass battle game, at a realistic price, not basically destroy the game and make it a different skirmish game to make it affordable.

WFB has beein rubbish since 7th edition. Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus. Then Steadfast came and completely wrecked any tactics involved with infantry that didn't revolve around running bus formations because they were effectively stubborn the whole game.

5 wide also messed up cavalry, especially when paired with the fact that most infantry units at the time were sold in sets of 8, meaning you needed at least 2 boxes just to run 2 min size units.

As things have stood since 8th released, I've been looking to sell off WFB altogether. The only way I can see myself bothering to keep what I have to play at home with the wives is if 9th fixes some of these glaring issues. Other than that perhaps I'd end up house ruling the 8th edition rules to balance out the things that are currently so very broken.

 Aerethan wrote:
WFB has beein rubbish since 7th edition. Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus. Then Steadfast came and completely wrecked any tactics involved with infantry that didn't revolve around running bus formations because they were effectively stubborn the whole game.

5 wide also messed up cavalry, especially when paired with the fact that most infantry units at the time were sold in sets of 8, meaning you needed at least 2 boxes just to run 2 min size units.

As things have stood since 8th released, I've been looking to sell off WFB altogether. The only way I can see myself bothering to keep what I have to play at home with the wives is if 9th fixes some of these glaring issues. Other than that perhaps I'd end up house ruling the 8th edition rules to balance out the things that are currently so very broken.

What'cha got for sale?

My gaming group adores 8th edition. There are some pretty stupid rules, but as I've seen from GW, that's every in edition of 40k and Fantasy, as well as pretty much every codex/army book. The start-up price is just abominable, really, and that's why we end up making paper proxies most of the time. I'd love to start a Skaven army, but seeing as I don't really want to drop about $500 to get a small army, my fiancee and I are going to drop the ~$70 on a Hordes two player battle box, and the rest of our group is very happy to drop the ~$40 on a starter box for Warmahordes.

Honestly? I don't know if they will truly "kill Fantasy" in the eyes of my gaming group, but for the love of God, there are only a few armies without 8th edition books. I wish they'd release 8th edition books for those armies before moving on to 9th/Grimdark past of circle bases. However, I'm just going to laugh if none of the rumors end up being even slightly true. Only time will tell.

I'm really excited for 9th, but the only thing that worries me is: right now I'm on hold with all my Warhammer painting, modelling and army building because everything is so up in the air.

I'm worried that after this new "Age of Sigmar" drops everything will STILL be just as up in the air as GW won't say if this is 9th, or a new mini-skirmish game (perhaps even with limited support).

For example, I'm not going to embrace circle bases (even though I am a big fan of them) if it's just for this one game and later on a square base fantasy will be released.

Problem is you know GW are going to be silent on the whole issue... Oh well, time to collect AdMech while I wait for the dust to settle.

 Aerethan wrote:
Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus.

I honestly liked it for aestetic reasons and while yes part of it was to sell more another could have been aestetics.

I like having a unit that's semi-symtetical. where I have GSCMG a command flanked on either side by a basic grunt. I think it looks better than the 4 man wide if you're taking a full command.

I play WHFB since 3rd edition and i actually quite liked 8th because after 25 years the first round of combat was not the only that mattered anymore.
I always rather played Warmaster to get the right feel of a Fantasy Battle.

The drop of players around 8th actually surprised me.
But i have enough armies of more than enough points to field any tournament size.

Quite a few friends of mine quit WHFB because of the size (to paint) and above all the cost of the armies you now needed.

I hope we go back to 2000 points AND get a good skirmish game (not Mordheim...) AND keep a WHFB that is fun to play.

Activation per unit instead of "you go, i go" could already do wonders for both WHFB as a skirmish version...

I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.