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 mikhaila wrote:
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.

Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.

Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?

Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.

Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.

I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?

Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.

I've been preaching since 6th Edition that all the game needes was Step-Up, and everyone thought me a crazy, old coot. Maybe, maybe Steadfast that can be broken by flank charging and some tweaks to magic. The game was damn beautiful back then. Oh how I weep for thee, Slayercult, Dogs of War and red crested skinks...

 warboss wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.

Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.

And that's actually all you need .

If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.

 mikhaila wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.

Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.

And that's actually all you need .

If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.

That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.

 nels1031 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.

Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.

And that's actually all you need .

If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.

That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.

Yeah, springing a 1000pts game due to summoning stuff on someone who has no clue that he/she is playing at a 33% points deficit sounds great! Those kind of scenario are fine if you're playing with friends with full knowledge and forewarning as well as with custom objectives to reflect it. I have no problem playing asymetric games like that in those scenarios. The problem is when the rules allow you to suprise strangers with that BS and fall back on "it's completely legal!".

 nels1031 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.

Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.

Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.

And that's actually all you need .

If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.

That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.

Sure, for a one off game with your friends... Pretty bad idea for pick up games (which grow the hobby).

Dudes, it was a passing comment about how you could possibly, just maybe, maybe just a little, have fun in that particular hypothetical situation about a rumored skirmish system that we know nothing about. Its obviously not the ideal situation, but just an idea on how you could spin it to have some enjoyment out of it.

And for what its worth, there is a scenario in the current BRB that details just such a situation...

 master of ordinance wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?

Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.

Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.

And I remember how with tactics: skirmishers or small screening units, sacrificial units, small and mobile heroes, fast cavalry screening the front of the combat infantry, you could actually thwart those "invincible" cavalry units. It was a good game when unit placement and movement actually mattered.

Ans someone complaining about 7th edition's magic phase and praising 8th's? That is a laugh right there...

PhantomViper wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?

Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.

Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.

And I remember how with tactics: skirmishers or small screening units, sacrificial units, small and mobile heroes, fast cavalry screening the front of the combat infantry, you could actually thwart those "invincible" cavalry units. It was a good game when unit placement and movement actually mattered.

Ans someone complaining about 7th edition's magic phase and praising 8th's? That is a laugh right there...

Nah, im praising the magic generation, it no longer rewards the crap that was Battery Wizards. The rest of it is utterly broken and really needs a tone down.

Now the problem with your idea of skirmishers and screening units are that A) not all armies have enough cheap units like that to place on the table and B) the remnants of those units then fled straight through the big unit and usually panicked it.

 master of ordinance wrote:


Now the problem with your idea of skirmishers and screening units are that A) not all armies have enough cheap units like that to place on the table and B) the remnants of those units then fled straight through the big unit and usually panicked it.

All armies had at least one of the options that I proposed and you are making it seem like there were multiple large units of heavy cavalry, when in reality, barring armies like Bretonnia, people at most used one or two 6 man units (and a single unit of heavy cavalry was much more common).

I might be wrong about this since its been a while, but units under unit strength 5 didn't cause panic checks when they broke and also you could angle your non-skirmish sacrificial unit in such a way that the overrun / pursuit move caused the cavalry to expose its flank to your infantry (or to your cannons, bolt throwers and other armour ignoring war machines).

Hey, look at that, more tactics that didn't involve just pushing huge blocks of infantry forward and rolling the correct dice on the correct spell!

I do remember 5th and the only thing i liked was playing beastmen, because that was the only (living) army where you could have longer combat with than just the first round (because they had 2 wounds).
The rest of 5th was IMO only a little bit better than the 3rd and 4th "herohammer" and MSU 6th was no change for the better either. 7th was a step in a better direction and 8th was, aside from the magic, the best WHFB yet IMO.
And i even like it that magic can be good for everyone who takes it, not just the player with the most of it. But i do agree that it is too powerfull.

The game system just needs tweaking but i am VERY afraid that GW is changing the system, like most editions the last 15 years, on what they want to sell, not what people want to play.
For 40k that still seems to work.
For WHFB that might lead to the actual end times of WHFB.

But there is always hope...

7th edition did not have tactics. 7th edition had trigonometry and peculiar army builds that didn't look anything like an army and were designed to take advantage of 7th edition's redirection madness. It was utterly loathsome.

In 8th, you can build an army that looks, and behaves, like an army. It was a return to the good old days of 3rd edition, where combats lasted more than one round. Its problem is that it pushed the unit size too high.

Work out a sane way to play 8th with 25 being a very large unit, and 10-15 being reasonable, and you've got the ideal game (IMHO).

@Graphite: i agree!
Tweak 8th a bit (tune down magic) and get back to mor enormal sized units.

In my memory 3rd edition had A LOT of dragons and monsters by the way...
In 3rd (and 4th) i often was the only player without a flying monster on principle
(beside the dwarfs, who did have a rune covered strength 10 toughness 10 dwarven lord instead... ;-)

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.

I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.

Exactly - Hell, let 'em jump ship, and jump with 'em!

The rules for KoW are free - there is no invested risk.

I sure as heck don't want to be in the first wave of folks trying 9th edition Warhammer - wait for the reviews to come out, at the least.

The Auld Grump - To continue the ship analogy - the good ship Warhammer is listing to port and headed toward the reefs....

ORicK wrote:
@Graphite: i agree!
Tweak 8th a bit (tune down magic) and get back to mor enormal sized units.

In my memory 3rd edition had A LOT of dragons and monsters by the way...
In 3rd (and 4th) i often was the only player without a flying monster on principle
(beside the dwarfs, who did have a rune covered strength 10 toughness 10 dwarven lord instead... ;-)

No, "Everything is flying" was more a 4th edition thing, with the flying high rules. Also combats tended to result in break-and-run-down, whereas 3rd had "free strikes" rather than unit wipeout when you won.

 nels1031 wrote:
Dudes, it was a passing comment about how you could possibly, just maybe, maybe just a little, have fun in that particular hypothetical situation about a rumored skirmish system that we know nothing about. Its obviously not the ideal situation, but just an idea on how you could spin it to have some enjoyment out of it.

And for what its worth, there is a scenario in the current BRB that details just such a situation...

Man, I think if that happened to me I'd find it completely hilarious. Would be a memorable game for sure.

I mean, I'd expect there to be some catch when he puts down 1 model total but still would be funny.

Round.
Bases.

As someone who started collecting late 90's, this has been the same plot line as watching a pet succumb to age. Eventually you have to say, "im sorry, ill always fondly remember our time together and i hope that you are treated well in the future, but its time to say goodbye." Which is a damn shame, because there was such squandered potential. I have a feeling that's an emotion shared with all those who have jumped the fantasy ship.

I wonder if the new direction works in drumming up some new interest, because it seems to me that a majority of the sales of fantasy went to existing customers, and this all reeks of rebooting the hard drive and reinstalling everything. which is the more 'harmful' to someone the longer they've been collecting.

Ah, yes... the flying high rules... that was both 4th and horrible hahaha...
First turn everything went to the sky, the next turn the game often was more or less over.

But I also faced a lot of points in heroes and dragons in 3rd (50%) and it was almost impossible to win if you did not field heroes yourself.

It wasnt in the OP so apologies if its been posted already

IT BEGINS

Holy crap. It may actually happen.

I'm intrigued to see what it is. As long as it isn't the Warhammer version of Execution Force (hence the round base rumours).

IM DIEING HERE!!! I just painted up a Thanqual and Boneripper, looken mighty ratty I may add. BUT WHAT BASE.... Im not even sure what size round I need to buy off ebay.

Also before anyone says I can use both, there is sadly no way my OCD is going to allow a mix of round and square.

Could I be anymore excited ? NO!!!

Chopxsticks wrote:
IM DIEING HERE!!! I just painted up a Thanqual and Boneripper, looken mighty ratty I may add. BUT WHAT BASE.... Im not even sure what size round I need to buy off ebay.

Also before anyone says I can use both, there is sadly no way my OCD is going to allow a mix of round and square.

Dont be a circle.


Be a Square.

Id love to, haha. Im luckly in a spot where I have alot of painted and non based models, so im fine going either way. BUT those pics of the Lizardmen on rounds looked good. I could almost live with anything on 25mm and smaller on squares and everything else on rounds.

Maybe..

Here's a thought...

What if the rumourmongers have got things (understandably) mixed up, and:
- Warhammer Fantasy Battles doesn't actually change, and simply receives a new rulebook that consolidates the ET changes on top of 8th (in other words, 9th has already been here for months! Mind blown! )

- Age of Sigmar is a whole new game, rather than a subset of WFB. It has round bases and a low model count, and uses both new and old minis, and has its own rulebook and release. It basically exists like WotR and LotR; two entirely separate rulesets with minimal crossover that use the same minis.


This is all a shot in the dark, but I could see if happening. WFB doesn't go anywhere it's not already at, the new system comes along for those that want it, and we all hobby happily ever after.

Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking...