Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
If Fantasy turns into a skirmish game and I can still use what I have for what ends up being the games Undead, and the rules are decent, I'll give it a go. It's all going to hinge on three things - lowering the model count drastically, making better rules, and not invalidating previous collections.

I wish you luck on the making better rules.

They have them... or at least the frame-work for them. A marriage between LotR and WHFB would work really well if they embrace the strengths of both.

If Age of Sigmar isn't the skirmish game I really hope it is, I'm going to start work on something very similar. I'm not sure yet whether it'll be just a set of WFB profiles for LotR, or whether I'll be tweaking the core rules as well. I'm thinking magic will need an overhaul for a start, though.

Was browsing the throne of skulls guide and noticed 5 "factions" they have listed. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the Age of Sigmar rumoured 6:

The Dark Gods

Defenders of the Old World

The Ravening Hordes

The Undead Legions

The Last of the Ancients

And then the 6th being the Sigmarines?

All of the current range could fall into these factions, but we'll slowly see them phased out as the more wacky and weird are brought in.

What do you think?

I think that's a good deduction Bottle. WHFB will probably continue to exist in its current form for a time, but I believe like LoTR it will eventually abandoned for the new game.

As long as Undead and Chaos are still playable, I'm okay with it. I flirt with elves from time to time, but those two are my faves.

That said, I'm actually fine with the lore-bombs. I felt it was good for SOMETHING interesting to happen finally. Even if my TK's lose their unique feel, vampires are cool enough. So is Nagash.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?

I can't answer for the reason, but you're not far off with what'll happen to the stock. They will destroy it.

My mate's uncle used to work at GW, and when they threw stock out, he'd keep some of it bring it home lol.

We all did, tbh. Sometimes more than "some", even :p

So...

The Dark Gods = Warriors of Chaos, Daemons of Chaos, Beastmen and Skaven

Defenders of the Old World = Empire, Bretonnians, Dwarfs and and Elves

The Ravening Hordes = Orcs & Goblins and Ogres

The Undead Legions = Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts

Last of the Ancients = Lizardmen

This strikes me as a very similar amalgamation of armies to the last set of LoTR army books that were released before the Hobbit.

Thing is, nothing very much has happened with LoTR since then...

 Bottle wrote:

The Ravening Hordes

Dat better be Skaven otherwise id be miffed.

Edit: Oh i guess chucking them into chaos wouldnt be toooo bad.

The did end of times book ever confirm whether or not the Horned Rat was Nurgle?

 Bottle wrote:
Was browsing the throne of skulls guide and noticed 5 "factions" they have listed.

And then the 6th being the Sigmarines?

What do you think?

I think that 5 forces are enough, and that Sigmar does just fine with Men:

- The Dark Gods = Daemons / Beasts / Warriors of Chaos + Skaven (+ Chaos Dorfs)
- Defenders of the Old World = Empire + Brets + Dorfs (+ DoW)
- The Ravening Hordes = Orks & Goblins + Ogres (+ Fimir)
- The Undead Legions = Tomb Kings + Vampire Counts
- The Last of the Ancients = High / Dark / Wood Elves + Lizardmen

Skaven and Ogres are both a little tricky. Skaven could be folded with Orks, and Ogres could be folded with Men. I like the notion of Skaven being with Evil Chaos, and Ogres being with the goofy Orks.

Seems plausible enough tbh.

What are sigmarines? like space marines only more fantasy?

That's the rumor, yeah.

Still can't imagine how this could work out in a fashion that doesn't alienate more players than it brings in.

That would fit the rumour of the 'narrative' being more like 40k i.e. you can play any units within an allied faction (and then anything with Unbound). Core units for each and then rules in the box for 'timed' units for each faction.

Edit 1: It would also allow a faster release schedule like 40k has now without huge army sized waves of output.

Given GW's ability to print and deliver content, I think WFB 9E will have new Army Books for all core factions by the end of the year.

The only question to me is whether they break out minor factions like Skaven / Ogres / Lizardmen into their own books, or fold them under Chaos / Orks / Elves. Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

I can see them doing compilation books like the endtimes for each of the combined factions, drop in the relevent army lists and lore, with the combined set giving the whole new background and history.

Then when new units come out they'll have stats in the box and white dwarf, maybe even add on storyline and unit books for expansions.

Would lead to a quick turn around with 6 core army/lore books and then supplements every so many months.

 Guildsman wrote:
That's the rumor, yeah.

Still can't imagine how this could work out in a fashion that doesn't alienate more players than it brings in.

Strictly speaking, the rumor isn't "sigmarines" but rather an almost angelic faction--a virtuous mirror to Daemons.

My biggest worry about these holy sigmarines is whether their pauldrons and shoulder pads are big enough to muscle their way into Menoth territory on my tabletop.

Besides giant arm and shoulder armor I do look forward to seeing what weird sorts of concoctions GW cook up.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

Heh heh, you said 'balance'

Less cynically, I do really hope for some internal balance along with these reduced factions. 40k + Fantasy both suffer so heavily from internal balance fail within the armybooks. While Fantasy was able to achieve a closer overall balance amongst the books themselves - especially when compared to the tiers of 7E - the meta around each book accreted distressingly fast after its release, as Obviously Good Things Are Obvious and the vast majority of GW players aren't interested in Taking Things Because They're Cool (though IMO Fantasy has more of us than 40k does, hence one of the reasons I left Future GrimDark a while back).

Which is to say, my fear with the fewer factions is less about background or anything (in most cases I couldn't be fethed with Fantasy's fluff), and more about viable units and armies looking different. With the 8E books 13 or so factions equaled at least 13 different builds, even if players were lazy and netlisted 'the list' from each. I'm scared that math says that 5 faction books could mean just 5 netlists, and all the abundant cool random stuff packed into the books from elsewhere never sees the table, except by us 1-8E vets clinging to decades of minis

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

Heh heh, you said 'balance'

Less cynically, I do really hope for some internal balance along with these reduced factions. 40k + Fantasy both suffer so heavily from internal balance fail within the armybooks. While Fantasy was able to achieve a closer overall balance amongst the books themselves - especially when compared to the tiers of 7E - the meta around each book accreted distressingly fast after its release, as Obviously Good Things Are Obvious and the vast majority of GW players aren't interested in Taking Things Because They're Cool (though IMO Fantasy has more of us than 40k does, hence one of the reasons I left Future GrimDark a while back).

Which is to say, my fear with the fewer factions is less about background or anything (in most cases I couldn't be fethed with Fantasy's fluff), and more about viable units and armies looking different. With the 8E books 13 or so factions equaled at least 13 different builds, even if players were lazy and netlisted 'the list' from each. I'm scared that math says that 5 faction books could mean just 5 netlists, and all the abundant cool random stuff packed into the books from elsewhere never sees the table, except by us 1-8E vets clinging to decades of minis

- Salvage

I can see your point, shortly after the faction books are released the optimized netlists for each faction will show up and that's what everybody will point to for new players and use as a baseline for competitiveness. Unfortunately, I think the only thing that can really combat that kind of rigidity of army compostion is a good ruleset. If the ruleset is tight and the books have internal balance then the "best" build for each faction should be more of an eye of the beholder opinion and not simply the result of mathammer calculations. List building should be a process of choosing units to create an army that supports your chosen style of play and not just a matter of choosing the effective units and ignoring the worthless ones.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
That's the rumor, yeah.

Still can't imagine how this could work out in a fashion that doesn't alienate more players than it brings in.

Strictly speaking, the rumor isn't "sigmarines" but rather an almost angelic faction--a virtuous mirror to Daemons.

Now you have my attention. If they are anything like the angelic faction on the Diablo III games I will have to sell one or two of my 40k armies and start fantasy.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

Heh heh, you said 'balance'

Each time GW has swept the deck (40k3 and WFB6), the initial balance (40k3 Rulebook, WFB Ravening Hordes) was quite good. I'm very hopeful here.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

Heh heh, you said 'balance'

Each time GW has swept the deck (40k3 and WFB6), the initial balance (40k3 Rulebook, WFB Ravening Hordes) was quite good. I'm very hopeful here.

You know what, I'll QFT that. While RH was a bit bland, it was nice and balanced - and supported a whole lot of existing minis, given how small it was. Here's hoping.

I'll also say this here: I really want to play Ogres in 9E (I opened 7E with them), and am entreating the Maw that there'll still be a way to do an All Big Dudes army. Flipside, if OK gets bundled up with O&G, I've already got schemes turning on converting up choice greenskin things (i.e. Ogre Manglers )

- Salvage

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
That's the rumor, yeah.

Still can't imagine how this could work out in a fashion that doesn't alienate more players than it brings in.

Strictly speaking, the rumor isn't "sigmarines" but rather an almost angelic faction--a virtuous mirror to Daemons.

I am not against the idea of Sigmarite Angels, that could be freaking rad.

 ashikenshin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
That's the rumor, yeah.

Still can't imagine how this could work out in a fashion that doesn't alienate more players than it brings in.

Strictly speaking, the rumor isn't "sigmarines" but rather an almost angelic faction--a virtuous mirror to Daemons.

Now you have my attention. If they are anything like the angelic faction on the Diablo III games I will have to sell one or two of my 40k armies and start fantasy.

The rumors I saw suggested that one should read Archaon to get an idea; the whole bit about Lileath turning the Bretonni into a "shield" comes to mind.

Yeah I just used the name "Sigmarines" because I find it funny.

I'm expecting orders of towering elite badass Knights probably all on 40mm round bases :-D

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Personally, I hope the latter, as it allows GW to clean up and balance the core books, while creating supplements for DoW & Chaos Dorfs later.

Heh heh, you said 'balance'

Each time GW has swept the deck (40k3 and WFB6), the initial balance (40k3 Rulebook, WFB Ravening Hordes) was quite good. I'm very hopeful here.

This is true, but I'd point out that the design team of 40k3 (came out in 1998) and Revening Hordes (2000) is very different that the current team. 40k3 was, from my understanding, mostly Rick P. and Andy Chambers and Ravening Hordes Alessio and Jake Thornton. I think the current group of designers isn't of the same caliber, but that's just my opinion. I really hope you're right. As a Brett player, I've been waiting a long time for a new army book- I'll take whatever I can get at this point.

Hah, Alessio Cavatore and "Balance". That's a good one!

My biggest worry is the creation of a space marine type faction that everyone plays, the thing I love about fantasy is the variety, we have at my club every faction represented but no dominant one, I play beastmen legion of chaos, with dragon ogres and trolls, no one else has even remotely the same things.

40k is almost always marine on marine, which is somewhat annoying sometimes

Well, WoC generally have Marine like Stats, so having a forces of order faction similar to them wouldn't be too bad.

Until they start getting all the cool stuff and chaos gets bad.

GW has bumped rules complexity back to WFB 5 / 40k 2 levels, so WFB 9 is due for a reset and simplification.

Simplified stuff is a lot easier to balance than chromey rules.

But without seeing 9E, it's really hard to guess what GW might have done.

Just keep on hoping.