Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let us see... think positive....

I am positive that Fantasy will not see the end of this decade.

How's that?

The Auld Grump - why do market research when you can just blow up your world, instead?

 Mort wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


You call blowing up the entire world, eradicating one of the few things many people still liked about the game(the background), "mixing it up a bit"?

Sure, if all you get out of Warhammer, and all you want to get out of it, is pushing blocks of pretty plastic around for a couple of hours of a weekend - great, enjoy the Nothammer Bubbleverse or whatever. For those of us who played Warhammer because it was Warhammer, it's a touch hard to "think positive" considering they've already done the thing we're feeling negative about.

First - yes, I play the game to play the game. The 'fluff' is 'not the game'. Maybe for you it is - but it's not for me. I enjoy reading it, of course, and I love a lot of it. But if that was the only thing keeping your interest in WHFB... well, sorry to hear that. You still have that fluff - they aren't going to confiscate it or take it away from you. Read it and enjoy it anytime you like. Heck, you and your friends could have your own 'bubbleverse', playing with the old fluff in mind, but giving the new rules a shot.

But really, do you have any idea what the new 'fluff' is going to be? Maybe it will be something similar to what you know and love. Maybe it will be something different. Maybe it will change barely enough that GW can 'justify' lumping humans and elves and dwarves together, etc. Or maybe they'll completely re-write everything, and the Empire will be the 'bad guys', Sigmar will be the new head-chaos god, and orcs will become pacifists.

Either way - throwing in the towel just seems premature. I understand the sour mood, as humans generally get set in their ways and don't like change, but you've already invested so much time and money into the hobby - what is so wrong with keeping an open mind for a month or so until you find out if it's really as bad as you think it is?

This has been gone over, in detail, dozens of times already. Your questions and suggestions have been answered and deconstructed numerous times, read back, going into them all again would be pointless.

People said "keep an open mind" when the End Times were first rumoured. They said it again when the series started. They said it again when the series ended. Every time the reservations folk like myself were expressing beforehand were entirely vindicated, so at this point if we keep our minds any more open they'll be falling out.

 Mort wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


You call blowing up the entire world, eradicating one of the few things many people still liked about the game(the background), "mixing it up a bit"?

Sure, if all you get out of Warhammer, and all you want to get out of it, is pushing blocks of pretty plastic around for a couple of hours of a weekend - great, enjoy the Nothammer Bubbleverse or whatever. For those of us who played Warhammer because it was Warhammer, it's a touch hard to "think positive" considering they've already done the thing we're feeling negative about.

First - yes, I play the game to play the game. The 'fluff' is 'not the game'. Maybe for you it is - but it's not for me. I enjoy reading it, of course, and I love a lot of it. But if that was the only thing keeping your interest in WHFB... well, sorry to hear that. You still have that fluff - they aren't going to confiscate it or take it away from you. Read it and enjoy it anytime you like. Heck, you and your friends could have your own 'bubbleverse', playing with the old fluff in mind, but giving the new rules a shot.

But really, do you have any idea what the new 'fluff' is going to be? Maybe it will be something similar to what you know and love. Maybe it will be something different. Maybe it will change barely enough that GW can 'justify' lumping humans and elves and dwarves together, etc. Or maybe they'll completely re-write everything, and the Empire will be the 'bad guys', Sigmar will be the new head-chaos god, and orcs will become pacifists.

Either way - throwing in the towel just seems premature. I understand the sour mood, as humans generally get set in their ways and don't like change, but you've already invested so much time and money into the hobby - what is so wrong with keeping an open mind for a month or so until you find out if it's really as bad as you think it is?

While, fluff is extremely important to my enjoyment of a game, I'm actually starting to look forward to 9th edition. I was very reluctant at first to give up the Warhammer world I know and love, but after a couple decades I think a change could be warranted. The world has existed on the brink of destruction for so long, it seems the right time to resolve the issue. Plus, if I don't like it, I have all of the older editions in my collection and will play one of them instead. I realize, though, that the tournament and pick-up game players have more of a gripe since their ability to get games of older editions may be limited (unless there is a large amount of the player base that rejects the changes).

@Yodhrin Totally agree. You can't "keep an open mind" about something you love coming to an end and being replaced with a spin-off, which is what the rumours indicate is happening here.

 Bull0 wrote:
@Yodhrin Totally agree. You can't "keep an open mind" about something you love coming to an end and being replaced with a spin-off, which is what the rumours indicate is happening here.

I am enthusiastically open minded to the idea that I may be less disappointed with GW than I am now, and that the new game and fluff may not suck.

 Mort wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


You call blowing up the entire world, eradicating one of the few things many people still liked about the game(the background), "mixing it up a bit"?

Sure, if all you get out of Warhammer, and all you want to get out of it, is pushing blocks of pretty plastic around for a couple of hours of a weekend - great, enjoy the Nothammer Bubbleverse or whatever. For those of us who played Warhammer because it was Warhammer, it's a touch hard to "think positive" considering they've already done the thing we're feeling negative about.

First - yes, I play the game to play the game. The 'fluff' is 'not the game'. Maybe for you it is - but it's not for me. I enjoy reading it, of course, and I love a lot of it. But if that was the only thing keeping your interest in WHFB... well, sorry to hear that. You still have that fluff - they aren't going to confiscate it or take it away from you. Read it and enjoy it anytime you like. Heck, you and your friends could have your own 'bubbleverse', playing with the old fluff in mind, but giving the new rules a shot.

But really, do you have any idea what the new 'fluff' is going to be? Maybe it will be something similar to what you know and love. Maybe it will be something different. Maybe it will change barely enough that GW can 'justify' lumping humans and elves and dwarves together, etc. Or maybe they'll completely re-write everything, and the Empire will be the 'bad guys', Sigmar will be the new head-chaos god, and orcs will become pacifists.

Either way - throwing in the towel just seems premature. I understand the sour mood, as humans generally get set in their ways and don't like change, but you've already invested so much time and money into the hobby - what is so wrong with keeping an open mind for a month or so until you find out if it's really as bad as you think it is?

The fluff/setting isnt just the stories though, it also effects the game. The gaming side is more fun having varied distinct themed armies fighting, rather than everyone just using whatever units they like, which from the rumours its leaning more towards, or at the very least less diverse and themed armies.

As for not knowing what the fluff will be and it maybe being similar, we already know it isnt. Its changed COMPLETELY - the world is blown up, this is fact, what comes next we only have rumours, but ive not heard one that sounds better than what they destroyed.

So while im waiting to see what is coming, everything known, learned and rumoured is worse as far as im concerned.

 Mort wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


You call blowing up the entire world, eradicating one of the few things many people still liked about the game(the background), "mixing it up a bit"?

Sure, if all you get out of Warhammer, and all you want to get out of it, is pushing blocks of pretty plastic around for a couple of hours of a weekend - great, enjoy the Nothammer Bubbleverse or whatever. For those of us who played Warhammer because it was Warhammer, it's a touch hard to "think positive" considering they've already done the thing we're feeling negative about.

First - yes, I play the game to play the game. The 'fluff' is 'not the game'. Maybe for you it is - but it's not for me. I enjoy reading it, of course, and I love a lot of it. But if that was the only thing keeping your interest in WHFB... well, sorry to hear that. You still have that fluff - they aren't going to confiscate it or take it away from you. Read it and enjoy it anytime you like. Heck, you and your friends could have your own 'bubbleverse', playing with the old fluff in mind, but giving the new rules a shot.

But really, do you have any idea what the new 'fluff' is going to be? Maybe it will be something similar to what you know and love. Maybe it will be something different. Maybe it will change barely enough that GW can 'justify' lumping humans and elves and dwarves together, etc. Or maybe they'll completely re-write everything, and the Empire will be the 'bad guys', Sigmar will be the new head-chaos god, and orcs will become pacifists.

Either way - throwing in the towel just seems premature. I understand the sour mood, as humans generally get set in their ways and don't like change, but you've already invested so much time and money into the hobby - what is so wrong with keeping an open mind for a month or so until you find out if it's really as bad as you think it is?

I agree with you on this one Mort!
I'm someone who plays the game for the game first and then the story second. I enjoy the story of my beloved skaven and like to see new parts of the story but if they change it drastically I'm still going to play the game...and hell I'll probably love the new fluff too!

I'm excited for the new edition, new books, new story and new skirmish game. I can still play 8th if 9th is terrible but I'll learn to love 9th in the end I'm sure.


LETS GET EXCITED EVERYONE 9TH IS COMING AND WILL BE AMAZING (or I hope at least hehe)

This seems a lot like the type of games my group played back in the early 90's. I had an army that was a mix of Chaos, Undead, and other types. They were some pretty fun games, actually. Is this what GW is coming back around to?

I keep the fluff to the novels and the game to the army books and current editions.

Each army book fluff is so pandering to the said faction, that after reading you would assume they can never lose. The story books, in my mind, tell it like it is.

 Yodhrin wrote:


This has been gone over, in detail, dozens of times already. Your questions and suggestions have been answered and deconstructed numerous times, read back, going into them all again would be pointless.

People said "keep an open mind" when the End Times were first rumoured. They said it again when the series started. They said it again when the series ended. Every time the reservations folk like myself were expressing beforehand were entirely vindicated, so at this point if we keep our minds any more open they'll be falling out.

LOL. good one. But this isn't about End Times, or any of those other issues you're trying to deflect to. This is about an entirely new edition... with rumored changes more than any previous version.

Anyway - everyone does what they need to do, of course. I just think it's pretty silly - especially for those of us who have sunk thousands of $ and hours into the game - to blow a gasket and 'quit' before we've even seen the new system, fluff, etc. It makes no sense to me, but ultimately, it doesn't matter whether I understand it or not.

But - to each his own. You can of course do whatever you want with your time, $, and whatever armies/figs you already have. There are plenty of alternatives. I'll hope that even though you're already writing-off the new edition, maybe you'll sneak a peak into it later on (without spending a penny) and find out for yourself if it really ends up as bad as you assume it's going to be. Who knows? Maybe I will hate it and can sell you my books at 50% off!

We know they hauled the army books down and such, but so far - have any of the minis been pulled? What sort of fluff is going to explain all of them? I'm interested to find out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6h51BxZ-Dc there ya go

 kloma wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6h51BxZ-Dc there ya go

I think it's the third time it has been posted on this thread

Quite excited to see the contents in the box, and check if they have come with new aesthetics or they will preserve the style they have right now (maybe slightly grimmier?)

 kloma wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6h51BxZ-Dc there ya go

That is legitimately the worst teaser I have ever seen. It isn't even as good as their other teasers, and their other teasers are

 mikhaila wrote:
So tomorrow I get to beat up my GW rep about AoS, and he'll deny it totally because of stupid rules. Then Monday hopefully they will have something to say about it. Unless GW is ungodly stupid and wants us to ignore AoS until the week before, like they have us do now with everything else. In which case I'll spend another month selling DnD, flames of war, warmahordes, magic, and 100 other games that people are excited about. Then in the last 7 days try to get customers to thing about AoS , which i will have maybe a paragraph of into on.

I used to think that FLGS owners were exaggerating the problems of dealing with GW, but the other week I bumped into an old friend who has his own FLGS, and he said that he'd rather drink petrol and urinate on a fire than deal with GW.

I cannot fathom why a company would be so reluctant to tell people what it's selling. 99.9% of other companies are shouting buy this! Buy this! Not GW

As always, this latest news about everything in 8th getting mothballed, only confirms what I already know - getting out of GW's games was the smartest thing I ever did.

"An open mind is like a fortress with the drawbridge down and the gates unbarred."

I read that in a book some time. I wonder who published that book?

I have to say the first end times book, nagash, was a good development of the old world's story. How did we get from that to the world ending and the game seemingly being binned so fast?

 Tamereth wrote:
"An open mind is like a fortress with the drawbridge down and the gates unbarred."

I read that in a book some time. I wonder who published that book?

I have to say the first end times book, nagash, was a good development of the old world's story. How did we get from that to the world ending and the game seemingly being binned so fast?

Game was allegedly binned before the ET-books was written.

GW Manager 1: Fantasy isn't selling, we'll need to bin the game.
GW Manager 2: Great, just pull the plug?
GW Manager 3: How about a little campaign book, to give it a send off.
GW Manager 1: Fine, but make it a tiny print-run only. Nobody buys fantasy anyhow.
GW Manager 2: I'll let our slave-writers know.

GW Writer writing ET-book 1 on a Monday ~9.30 am: This is fun. I finally get to shake things up a bit.
GW Writer writing ET-book 2 on a Tuesday ~2.30 pm: This is sorta fun. Gotta shill the new Nurgle-guy nobody heard about, but I still get to wreck stuff.

GW Manager 1: Holy!! This is selling!!
GW Manager 2: All right. Lets add a few more books to the ET campaign!

GW Writer writing ET-book 3 on a Thursday ~5.30 pm: gak... tight deadline. Gotta finish this book in a week.
GW Writer writing ET-book 4 on a long Friday at the office ~10.30 pm: It's getting kinda repetitive. Oh well, more booze.
GW Writer writing ET-book 5 on Weekend overtime ~4.40 am: Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! *drools on page*

I'm pretty sure the Dawn of war-quote was:
"An open mind is like a frotress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded"

Edit: Nevermind, they turned out to be placeholders with incorrect price information. Sorry

I'm still not sure I can wrap my mind around "Wait and See".

We know what happened to the Warhammer world. There appear to be only a few options at this point:

Retcon the whole thing. Certainly does not appear to be happening at all, especially given the most recent WD doubles down on it.

Set the entire game in an earlier age of the world Again, this is possible, but then the material in the WD is teasing for some event that will not be addressed at all in that scenario.

Set the game in an alternate reality and ignore the End Times Again, possible, but given that WD just mentioned the whole thing again, it seems unlikely.

Create a fantasy game on a new world with the survivors: This really seems to be the only scenario which makes sense if you are going to mention the Lizardmen fleeing before destruction, and other survivors, and someone grasping a new world.


The only scenario that seems to fit what GW has been repeatedly teasing is a new fantasy world populated with the incredibly sparse survivors of the old. If that is something that interests you, then great! Wait and see how it plays.

If, like myself, you have absolutely no interest in a game of post-apocalyptic survivors struggling to create civilization on a new world, then what are we waiting to see? I had interest in the struggles and resolution of things in the Warhammer world. Those are resolved. I hate that resolution with the blinding passion of a million exploding suns, but GW resolved it. I couldn't give less of a crap how the infinitesimally small* amount of survivors gets on in an entirely new setting.

Given that GW decided to destroy the world setting that I liked, I'm not inclined to wait and see if they create a new world setting that I like. They have already removed something I wanted to play, and have demonstrated their willingness to do so (so should I like the new game, maybe they will decide to bin that one too).

*And, given the books, the number of survivors should be incredibly few, mostly Skaven and Lizardmen. GW specifically tells you that everything is devoured by Chaos, and enumerates the things that escape (Slann citadels, Skaven warp-tunnels, the hidden elves (maybe). Everything else dies. Reality is consumed by chaos. Of course, knowing that GW has no problem crapping all over their own backstory, even days after releasing it, we will probably discover that all the writers neglected to mention that thousands of humans, orcs, elves, dwarves, and, of course, all sorts of monsters , all just happened to also survive completely unmentioned and all also just happened to land on the same place in the vast infinity of chaos. And, of course, that world had cows and pigs and oak trees and everything else just like the old world that was destroyed. Heck, maybe there weren't a bunch of survivors, but it just so happened that the new world has humans and orcs and goblins and dwarves who all just happen to have a civilization just like the one that was destroyed, down to the same designs on the flags! Thus, crapping on all the people who hated the End Times backstory, AND crapping on the people who liked the End Times backstory.

 Yodhrin wrote:


People said "keep an open mind" when the End Times were first rumoured. They said it again when the series started. They said it again when the series ended. Every time the reservations folk like myself were expressing beforehand were entirely vindicated, so at this point if we keep our minds any more open they'll be falling out.

This is all I see when I hear those "Keep an open mind" comments.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As always, this latest news about everything in 8th getting mothballed, only confirms what I already know - getting out of GW's games was the smartest thing I ever did.

Well I don't know about it being confirmed just yet but from likely indications it appears that a whole lot of stuff has to be mothballed based on what has happened to the WHFB world (blown up). Some speculation that everything will still be legal (in game) when the new edition comes out doesn't negate the fact that a death sentence has to be hanging over a huge amount of different unit types and models in the near future. Best to wait and see what the new release is like before making a decision to get out of GW related purchases

Tamereth wrote:
I have to say the first end times book, nagash, was a good development of the old world's story. How did we get from that to the world ending and the game seemingly being binned so fast?

The first end times book (Nagash) was very very good and could have taken the fluff in a very promising direction. Glottkin wasn't too bad either; direction of the Warhammer World and game still had potential. It was the 3rd book (Thanquol) where things really started to go pear shaped. It was at that stage it was hard to avoid the very realistic fact that a boardroom was clearing out things to redefine something new with preferably stronger IP etc.

Da Butcha wrote:I'm still not sure I can wrap my mind around "Wait and See".

We know what happened to the Warhammer world. There appear to be only a few options at this point:

Retcon the whole thing. Certainly does not appear to be happening at all, especially given the most recent WD doubles down on it.

Set the entire game in an earlier age of the world Again, this is possible, but then the material in the WD is teasing for some event that will not be addressed at all in that scenario.

Set the game in an alternate reality and ignore the End Times Again, possible, but given that WD just mentioned the whole thing again, it seems unlikely.

Create a fantasy game on a new world with the survivors: This really seems to be the only scenario which makes sense if you are going to mention the Lizardmen fleeing before destruction, and other survivors, and someone grasping a new world.


The only scenario that seems to fit what GW has been repeatedly teasing is a new fantasy world populated with the incredibly sparse survivors of the old. If that is something that interests you, then great! Wait and see how it plays.

If, like myself, you have absolutely no interest in a game of post-apocalyptic survivors struggling to create civilization on a new world, then what are we waiting to see? I had interest in the struggles and resolution of things in the Warhammer world. Those are resolved. I hate that resolution with the blinding passion of a million exploding suns, but GW resolved it. I couldn't give less of a crap how the infinitesimally small* amount of survivors gets on in an entirely new setting.

Given that GW decided to destroy the world setting that I liked, I'm not inclined to wait and see if they create a new world setting that I like. They have already removed something I wanted to play, and have demonstrated their willingness to do so (so should I like the new game, maybe they will decide to bin that one too).

*And, given the books, the number of survivors should be incredibly few, mostly Skaven and Lizardmen. GW specifically tells you that everything is devoured by Chaos, and enumerates the things that escape (Slann citadels, Skaven warp-tunnels, the hidden elves (maybe). Everything else dies. Reality is consumed by chaos. Of course, knowing that GW has no problem crapping all over their own backstory, even days after releasing it, we will probably discover that all the writers neglected to mention that thousands of humans, orcs, elves, dwarves, and, of course, all sorts of monsters , all just happened to also survive completely unmentioned and all also just happened to land on the same place in the vast infinity of chaos. And, of course, that world had cows and pigs and oak trees and everything else just like the old world that was destroyed. Heck, maybe there weren't a bunch of survivors, but it just so happened that the new world has humans and orcs and goblins and dwarves who all just happen to have a civilization just like the one that was destroyed, down to the same designs on the flags! Thus, crapping on all the people who hated the End Times backstory, AND crapping on the people who liked the End Times backstory.

Backed themselves into a hole really. Still want to see what the lay of the land looks like with this new game but your reasoning above is sound. Very little survives at the end of the End Times so can't see how pre-existing forces like Dwarves and Orcs n Goblins will look similar to what we have now. I'd expect a new steampunk style skirmish game inspired by Warmahordes with models on round bases. I would say the models will be exceptional but the background storyline and progression from the old Warhammer history will be underwhelming.

If it had been me, I would have had the world blowing up, the Lizardmen evacuating everybody on their space ships, and the new setting being some planet they discovered, where everybody fights for control.

That might have worked. Instead, I think we'll get a horrible, halfway house approach, that annoys everybody.

Lizards in space would have been cool.

reading about the survivors huddling around the giant tree then slowly falling to death from chaos was really depressing.

And what happened to gortek?

 Orock wrote:


And what happened to gortek?

He got angrier. Not even the destruction of a planet can give him the sweet release of death.

Another option, they roll it into 40K somehow; everything's invalidated and the new miniatures will have bolters and the fluff explains it all away as the origins of squats, ogryn, eldar cousins, etc...

I thought I heard rumours of it being some sort of Reimagined Battlestar Galactica style thing?

Everything has happened before, will happen again.

Sorta idea.

 Orock wrote:
reading about the survivors huddling around the giant tree then slowly falling to death from chaos was really depressing.

And what happened to gortek?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
If it had been me, I would have had the world blowing up, the Lizardmen evacuating everybody on their space ships, and the new setting being some planet they discovered, where everybody fights for control.

That might have worked. Instead, I think we'll get a horrible, halfway house approach, that annoys everybody.

If it had been me, I would never have moved away from the idea that what the company was selling was the IP, the settings, the framework for people to tell their own stories. I'd have divided both 40K and Fantasy into four distinct eras(Age of the Emperor, Age of the Imperium, Age of Apostasy, and Age of Apocalypse for 40K, then say Age of the Ancients, Age of Chaos, Age of the Old World, and the End Times for Fantasy) and given them all, over time, proper support through campaign books in the style of the Heresy series(with Apocalypse/End Times being the "default" setting of the main games both ending where they should - with everything hanging in the balance and open for players to resolve if they want). I'd have "fixed" Fantasy by addressing the actual problem with the system - rules written for models at historicals prices but models selling at boutique collector prices.

But that would require an actual investment of money and effort, much easier to squat, coil out a few End Times books, then throw the result at the wall and call it Age of Sigmar.

 Compel wrote:
I thought I heard rumours of it being some sort of Reimagined Battlestar Galactica style thing?

Everything has happened before, will happen again.

Sorta idea.

Thats kind of the vibe I'm getting, with the chaos gods getting bored and kickstarting the entire process again. With the survivors of the old world being the founders of the new.

it'll be interesting if any other of the special characters make it over to the new world and if they remember the old.