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 insaniak wrote:

 Mort wrote:
Obviously - there are going to be a group of people who will rip GW no matter -what- names, images, fonts, minis, colors, factions, etc, etc, that they come up with. It's like there are dozens of people waiting for ANY bit of news just so they can rip into it (for no apparent reason) and be negative - just for the sake of being negative. I am waiting for that guy to come in and start shouting, "REALMGATE? SO DUMB! I AM SELLING ALL MY ARMIES NOW!".

And then at the opposite end of the spectrum you have the people who dismiss any criticism as people being negative just for the sake of being negative.

Different people like (and dislike) different things. Can we all try sticking to the topic, rather than ranting about how screwed up the universe is because other people don't share our own personal opinions?

'

That's the typical defense of the negative bunch who get called out for... well... being negative for no real reason other than to just 'hate on' GW. And so it goes. There's hyperbole at both ends, sure. I've seen plenty of negative hyperbole here though, and little - if any - positive. If you haven't seen that, you might wanna take a peek back through the thread.

Besides, how is 'REALM GATE IS THE DUMBEST NAME AND I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY' 'on topic', yet pointing out how silly that sounds, isn't?

I don't dismiss reasonable criticism. I just haven't seen much of it yet in this thread, but I've sure seen a heaping load of over-the-top negative criticism that just really doesn't even make sense.

Here's some reasonable criticism then: you're engaging in behaviour you claim to detest. Complaints about complaints are no more productive than the complaint itself, often less as the complaint can be an opinion that is on topic, while the complaint about the complaint is by nature offtopic.

Instead of attacking the 'negative bunch' and calling them haters, how about some positive hyperbole posts to balance them out? At least that will be a bit more constructive.

 Achaylus72 wrote:
I am agoged at the new minis but again GW decided that if we did not get enough Khorne in the last year then we get more Khorne stuff.

What the hell, why doesn't GW bite the bullet and squat Slaanesh and Tzeentch and just have Khorne and Nurgle.

I think it's just a matter of demand/popularity.

Khorne is most likely the most popular chaos god, so put new Khorne stuff in the box and assume it will help sell more units. Pack it with a totally new faction that some argue 'look' like GW's best-selling line from their most popular game, and... well... you can see why some might think GW bean-counters feel those were the two best groups of plastic to put in the starter box.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Here's some reasonable criticism then: you're engaging in behaviour you claim to detest. Complaints about complaints are no more productive than the complaint itself, often less as the complaint can be an opinion that is on topic, while the complaint about the complaint is by nature offtopic.

Instead of attacking the 'negative bunch' and calling them haters, how about some positive hyperbole posts to balance them out? At least that will be a bit more constructive.

All you're doing is trying to continue the stream of hyperbole - even encouraging it - when it's really unnecessary from both sides. So I disagree with your 'constructiveness' assertion.

Someone has to point it out - otherwise there's never a chance for change, however small that chance might be. And if the mods are cool with that type of negativity, they should be cool with others calling others on it, eh? There's a big difference between 'being negative' and 'being a hater.'. I get the impression you probably understand that. There's literally been hundreds of 'negative' posts in this thread, to which there have been no responses. Most folks get that, and accept those negative comments, even if they disagree.

It's usually the over-the-top negativity that attracts the ire of others - such as the post I had responded to. That sort of thing tends to breed more of the same, if ignored. Maybe you're cool with that. /shrug.

 Mort wrote:
...but I've sure seen a heaping load of over-the-top negative criticism that just really doesn't even make sense.

Criticism often doesn't make sense when you disagree with it. That doesn't make it invalid. It just makes it something you don't understand.

Posting opinions on a new release is on topic for a new release discussion thread, even if you personally disagree with those opinions.

Complaining about people having an opinion different to your own is not.


SO, Age of Sigmar, eh?

Khorne makes sense if you want a decent starter that let's two people have a basic game, it's really not easy to get two semi balanced visually appealing sides, so for Warhammer you want 2 sides that can basically charge into each other along with an oddity or two with ranged/spells/buffs, plus a leader, and by and large that is what is in the box.

Can't wait for this, If new Fantasy means it removes tons of internet whiners then GW is onto a winner, already fair few non GW players at my club interested in this if it's skirmish.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:

Can't wait for this, If new Fantasy means it removes tons of internet whiners then GW is onto a winner, already fair few non GW players at my club interested in this if it's skirmish.

When you say 'tons of internet whiners' are you referring to a large proportion of the existing WHFB players who have problems with the new game as it appears at present? Also could you quantify the number of 'non GW players' at your club that are interested in the new skirmish game and are actually going to take it up?

 insaniak wrote:

 Mort wrote:
...but I've sure seen a heaping load of over-the-top negative criticism that just really doesn't even make sense.

Criticism often doesn't make sense when you disagree with it. That doesn't make it invalid. It just makes it something you don't understand.

Posting opinions on a new release is on topic for a new release discussion thread, even if you personally disagree with those opinions.

Complaining about people having an opinion different to your own is not.


SO, Age of Sigmar, eh?

That's why I asked the guy for clarification. In fact, I asked that in the post of mine that you chose to single-out. There's criticism, and there's hyperbole. At the risk of misjudging what the guy had said - I asked for clarification, while making the admission that -some- 'criticism' isn't criticism at all - but rather simply a way for people to hate on the subject of the thread. Maybe his post was one of those. Maybe not. Ultimately, I don't really care one way or another for the name 'Realmgate'. But, when someone goes off like he did about it - I am curious why. Is the name offensive in some way? Is it used in some other form of fiction so GW's use of it here DOES make it ridiculous? (i.e. if they had called it a 'Stargate'... well... ok, I could see that guy's response being spot-on, lol).

But anyway, sure... AOS... Since the post I was responding to had such an issue with 'Realmgate' as a name of the structure that the two forces were fighting over, and since there are some who think that it is the dumbest, silliest name that could possibly ever be imagined (their hyperbole, not mine), I am very curious to hear what alternative names folks might have been more satisfied with/accepting of? Someone mentioned 'Realm Gate'. It sounds as if these structures will be super-important as far as the fluff goes... and just the vague bits we've seen so far give me the impression of the Webway in 40K, and the portals to access it.

If GW goes with the 'pocket dimension' ideas or 'bubbles' that people have referred to earlier in the thread, these gates could be what allows access 'between bubbles', to other 'realms'. It could explain how the various other factions meet up with those presented in the box, including the factions many of us already know and love.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Well, supposedly I get answers tomorrow.

Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.

Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.

It astounds me they're trying to put this release up against a MtG set prerelease. We're certainly not going to try to run a GW event for fantasy on that day, Magic dominates Way to hard.

GW refuses to accept they actually have competition. They really are there own worst enemy.

I wonder though if AoS fails if GW will then rush out a new edition of classic Warhammer or just scrap all of it.

That would be great, Age of Warcraft bites the dust and old world is back. That's what I will root for, noone I know is interested in that awful starter anyway so maybe, just maybe.

They should have written a really a good skirmish ruleset and word of the mouth would sell it for them but since they don't know how anymore, we get this pointless drama.

I have small hopes that they will re release whfb around Warhammer Total War premiere, I mean they cant be that stupid and pass on the opportunity can they? Oh wait.

Or is this just some good cop bad cop routine, kill whfb, ressurect whfb?

Indeed, I too was reminded of Stargate, and I imagine they work very similarly. It makes me wonder how GW can take itself at all seriously, when it claimed in a court of law that its designers come up with everything for their games with their own imaginations and that they had absolutely no outside influence whatsoever, when an influence is so obvious like that. It's always been okay for GW to steal from fething everyone, but woe betide you if you release a model that bears even a passing resemblance to something they made.

But whatever, it doesn't "offend" me anywhere near as much as "Stormcast Eternals" does. Holy hell is that stupid. I think they could have come up with something way better if they tried, but I guess they didn't have more than a couple minutes to work out the names.

It's also probably riling people up because, as you said, these gates are probably what link the "pocket dimensions" together, which has been criticized ever since it was first suggested months ago that this is the direction the new fluff is going because it sounds really god-damned stupid to everyone. It may be that people aren't so bothered by the name itself, but just the fact that it acts as a confirmation that Bubblehammer is indeed a thing, and they're probably taking out their frustration by bashing the name.

Looking at the new stuff for the first time yesterday, the new gold guys kind of remind me of old Rackham Griffins, though with fewer pointy bits and hammers instead of swords.

 Kanluwen wrote:
How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?

It's alot quicker to list the companies that don't.

Let's do a quick poll on this.

How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?

Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.

As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's do a quick poll on this.

How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?

Raises hand.

They couldnt even figure out that deathwing is unplayable by itself. Everything goes into reserves, nothing rolls for reserves turn 1. You lose sir, good day!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's do a quick poll on this.

How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?

It's going to be rigged to let the shiny new faction win so Timmy will buy it. Have you tried playing AOBR?

 Orock wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's do a quick poll on this.

How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?

Raises hand.

They couldnt even figure out that deathwing is unplayable by itself. Everything goes into reserves, nothing rolls for reserves turn 1. You lose sir, good day!

Dice with 5 sides Sigmar and one side Khorne, if Khorne comes up, use the special Sigmar re-roll

I want to know what the price is, with the space Hulk it increased in price, so i expect this one to cost 100 million dollar muwahahaha! oops i mean 175 Dollar

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.

As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.

I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.

Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.

Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting

@Fezza: i'm excited to see how everything turns out, too...

@Sidstyler: what is the problem with the name Stormcast Eternals???
i don't see why that would offend you, but maybe i am missing something...

personally, i don't have a problem with any of the GW naming conventions...
it didn't bother me with the Blood Angels' Blood Talons, and it didn't bother me with the Space Wolves' stuff like Murderfang...
i mean, it's a work of fiction, not reality...
why get so worked up over it???
it is no more real than whatever anybody wants to use in their head-canon...

i don't have a problem with the different realms, either...
as far as i'm concerned, the Old World still exists everytime i open the more than 30 years worth of books that i have, from 1st edition Fantasy Roleplay, through the original novels like Beast in Velvet and Drachenfels, the Realms of Chaos books, all the way up to Tamurkhan and the 8th edition Army Books...

i think the End Times were awesome books, but anyone who doesn't like them can easily just ignore them...
ignore the Age of Sigmar, and just enjoy the previous 30 years of product instead...

i just don't get why people would let themselves get so worked up over some fiction, and the names of imaginary things and characters...

for me, the new Khorne models, look way cooler than the last generation of Marauders and Chosen, so that is awesome...
the new Lord, with his little Flesh Hound pet, are definitely hitting the painting queue as soon as possible...
i am salivating for a close up look at the new Chosen, BSB, and Lord...

cheers
jah

 Fezza213 wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.

As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.

I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.

Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.

Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting

I'm wondering will it be a case of the Sigmarines battling Chaos and gradually bringing new factions into the new game. Perhaps when they win the battle for Azyr gate they bring in some form of unified army of men but also allow the Skaven in at the same time. The next boxset after this one could reflect this just like the recent 40K campaign boxsets (Stormclaw, Sanctus Reach etc). Maybe there is a gate for each of the Winds of Magic as a plot dynamic?

 Fezza213 wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.

As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.

I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.

Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.

Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting

I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about 'realm gate' reminds me of saying something like 'door-portal' or 'window-door'. Not sure what it is, it looks like a perfectly innocuous word. It might just be the strangeness of the new, and it may well grow on me. Not a big deal at all.

I want to know how soon until I get my Nagash- sized God of Storms to slay my wallet while leading my troops into battle.

Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!

They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.

 jah-joshua wrote:
ignore the Age of Sigmar

Will do.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!

They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.

Honestly I'd be interested in how many purely 40k players jump into this box.

I've been told it's "fun" and "aiming for a 30 minute game"

94 pages now okay. ( could anyone with the mini 40k rulebook tell me how many pages that has?)

 Fezza213 wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.

As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.

I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.

Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.

Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting

If you can't the problem with naming something using a convention that implies scandal ( watergate ring any bells? ) rather than giving it a more defining name, maybe even gates of Azyr (plural) than you must have very low hopes for the standard the new fluff will be written to.


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migooo wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!

They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.

Honestly I'd be interested in how many purely 40k players jump into this box.

I've been told it's "fun" and "aiming for a 30 minute game"

94 pages now okay. ( could anyone with the mini 40k rulebook tell me how many pages that has?)

Mini 40k is 208 pages

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

If you can't the problem with naming something using a convention that implies scandal ( watergate ring any bells? ) rather than giving it a more defining name, maybe even gates of Azyr (plural) than you must have very low hopes for the standard the new fluff will be written to.

I don't really think you can draw conclusions about people just from them not being sooo burdened by American political history that it shapes their entire perception of language.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Mini 40k is 208 pages

But half of that is worthless bloat. The 4th edition mini was 87 numbered pages (plus an intro and appendix) and covered everything that needed to be covered. 96 pages sounds right for a normal game not burdened by mysterious objectives, rules for specific terrain pieces, superheavies, etc.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
ignore the Age of Sigmar

Will do.

fair enough...
that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...

@UBT: yeah, Watergate and Realm Gate, sound exactly alike...
seriously, that is a bit of a stretch...

i can't speak for anybody else, but for me it isn't a matter of low hopes for the standard of the new fluff, as much as it is that i don't judge the fluff, but simply enjoy it...
if a piece of fiction is describing a setting that i enjoy, then i enjoy that fiction...
anything that sheds light on an imaginary world is cool with me...
i don't have any preconceptions about where the worlds created by someone else should go, but am thankful that they take the time to add to those worlds...

in that vein, i like the look of the Sigmarites, because i have no preconception of what this new faction should have looked like...
i am stoked to see that the new faction gives off a Classical Greek vibe, but taken to the over-the-top extreme that is a hallmark of GW minis...
i wonder how cool these guys will look painted with a verdigrised bronze???
could be cool...

cheers
jah

offtopic. The "US" seem to want to label everything as (...)gate nowadays. Everysingle tiny bit of a problem is in some way comparable to the watergate scandal.. yeah right.

Stormfront sounds kinda familiar if you really want to push it. But honestly unless you know that name then I don't see why it's offensive. And even so it's a push.

The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.