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migooo wrote:
Look oldhammer groups exist. As do second ed 40k groups

I'm looking at oldhammer but I only play 40k second. Just play what makes you happy and ignore something that doesn't.



Groups can be hard to find but they are about.

Other games exist too. As do groups that play them.

They can be found at non-GW FLGS's. This requires less effort than trying to track down an obscure group of garage-gamers that probably will be on the other side of the state.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Good god. You went and blew it up, you maniacs! Damn you! Damn you all to hell!

Ahem. I've been away from the hobby for a while. Regardless, this is horrendously disappointing. Warhammer Fantasy was doing poorly, we all knew it, but this? This is madness.

Somewhere, in GW HQ, this version makes perfect sense. It's us who are 'mad' for not getting their vision.

migooo wrote:
Look oldhammer groups exist. As do second ed 40k groups

I'm looking at oldhammer but I only play 40k second. Just play what makes you happy and ignore something that doesn't.



Groups can be hard to find but they are about.

Which is exactly the point, if he wanted to play 5th edition 40k he'd either have to have a group nearby that's willing to play it, or try to start one himself. If no one in the area wants to play 5th at all then you're fethed. You even said yourself that you only play 2nd.

"Oldhammer is a thing!" doesn't mean gak if it isn't actually a thing where you live, or if they're all playing the "wrong" edition.

 Bull0 wrote:
Bah, I'm in camp wait-and-see now. We're fixating on a couple of negative soundbites that aren't even 100% confirmed - no points costs etc - without knowing how the rest of the rules work, so we don't even know how much of an issue those unconfirmed changes will pose.

This is why GW needs to talk, people not in the HHHobby exclusively will be looking at other stuff right now and even have pre orders down.
I have preorders down for pp stuff coming in July and September, I just order some new RPG books. Probably going to put some extra money on some kickstarter and just order 2 new game mats.
All up, GW negatives have made me less likly to wait and save any money for them as an alternative, making my likly hood at preordering less.
This is info we should have all had 2 months ago, where is GW marketing. Most kickstarter projects seem to have better marketing.

Hard to generate hype for a product when people are preordering, playing and talking about info we do know.
I even know the stats and how they will play for my PP preorders not out for 3 months, perfectly capable of testing and discussing all the positives they will bring.

Well that seems fitting

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Based on that evidence, and using Occam's razor as a guide, you can reasonably conclude that this is shaping up to be a steaming pile of horse gak

Not quite yet. It very well could be... be we really need to see some Warscrolls first.

It sounds like GW is trying to emulate Wrath of Kings, I have no idea if they can pull it off. Unlike some people in this thread, I genuinely hope they do.

I'm firmly in the "wait and see" camp.

 Red Viper wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Based on that evidence, and using Occam's razor as a guide, you can reasonably conclude that this is shaping up to be a steaming pile of horse gak

Not quite yet. It very well could be... be we really need to see some Warscrolls first.

It sounds like GW is trying to emulate Wrath of Kings, I have no idea if they can pull it off. Unlike some people in this thread, I genuinely hope they do.

I'm firmly in the "wait and see" camp.

A lot of GW defenders criticise their fellow gamers for the flak they give GW, but it's because they LOVE the games so much, that these people react in such an angry manner. People genuinely want the AOS to be a cracking game, only a tiny minority want it to crash and burn.

Sadly, the evidence points to this going downhill, and that's why people engage in nerd rage.

 Sidstyler wrote:

migooo wrote:
Look oldhammer groups exist. As do second ed 40k groups

I'm looking at oldhammer but I only play 40k second. Just play what makes you happy and ignore something that doesn't.



Groups can be hard to find but they are about.

Which is exactly the point, if he wanted to play 5th edition 40k he'd either have to have a group nearby that's willing to play it, or try to start one himself. If no one in the area wants to play 5th at all then you're fethed. You even said yourself that you only play 2nd.

"Oldhammer is a thing!" doesn't mean gak if it isn't actually a thing where you live, or if they're all playing the "wrong" edition.

True but it's also kinda blinkered . Fine I'm willing to accept if there's not a group in your vicinity or are reliant on GW shops to play you are going to have a bit of a bad time. But I live in a fairly secluded part of England that has stupid transportation links and I don't drive and its still manageable. Fine I only play every other week or so but that's preferable to not.

migooo wrote:
True but it's also kinda blinkered . Fine I'm willing to accept if there's not a group in your vicinity or are reliant on GW shops to play you are going to have a bit of a bad time. But I live in a fairly secluded part of England that has stupid transportation links and I don't drive and its still manageable. Fine I only play every other week or so but that's preferable to not.

I also live in a remote area, in one of the U.S.'s smaller states (Maryland). It's a 45 min to my nearest GW, an hour to my nearest non-GW, driving. Public transportation is really not a thing in a lot of the U.S., and plenty of people live in rural or suburban areas that basically require a car to get around.

I'm fortunate, I have a regular gaming group of friends. But we all started with 8th, and most of my friends lost all interest in GW products after the crap they've been pulling lately. Looking at AoS so far, I'm finding it harder and harder to disagree with them.

If stores want to run tournaments (or simplify pickup games) all they need to do is set some limits for the games played in their store

eg 10 warscrolls worth (perhaps broken down by type if the warscrolls come like that)

after a few weeks everybody who frequents the store will know how much stuff they can bring

(just like not you could, in theory, rock up with 20,000 points of minis but you'd be very unlikely to get a game, or finish it before the store owner threw you out)

this is, of course, dependant on the warscrolls themselves coming with some sort of reasonable balance

(and even if they don't we've plenty of experience with people being obsessed with cherry picking the 'best' units with the 'best' options for their points based games)

this is certainly not going to be the WFB we remember (and the flyer rams that home), but it may (or may not) be a decent if simpler game. We need to see the war scrolls to find out and since they are going to be free (for now) the only ones really suffering are store owners who are being asked to buy sight unseen

and even they are being offered sweetners to do so, gamble it's a hit and get extra stuff etc,

don't gamble and pay more later,

uncomfortable but then that's business (would a smaller company launching something they'd had more access to beforehand give as much free stuff? I suspect not)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

A lot of GW defenders criticise their fellow gamers for the flak they give GW, but it's because they LOVE the games so much, that these people react in such an angry manner. People genuinely want the AOS to be a cracking game, only a tiny minority want it to crash and burn.

Sadly, the evidence points to this going downhill, and that's why people engage in nerd rage.

Makes sense.

I'm just trying to calm people down. We don't have full access to rules and I feel like some rumors (mainly the ones from the warhammer forum) jumped to incorrect conclusions, which caused some panic.

I understand why these leaked rules have people worried, I just feel like we're still missing some very important info.

Do we really have three more days of wahhhhh to endure before the Age of Sigwahhhh hits? Cos there's a lot of wahhhh going on based on very little info.

Smug posters like you are just as bad as any hyperbolic "hater", JohnnyHell. We're making judgements based on the information we have. If you are happy to wait til later to see the full rules, go do that.

What is amusing to me is seeing the acceptance of KOW style rules by many who had decried KOW as "too simple" and lacking in depth. I guess it's different if it comes from GW rather than Mantic, right?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Do we really have three more days of wahhhhh to endure before the Age of Sigwahhhh hits? Cos there's a lot of wahhhh going on based on very little info.

From the sounds of it, doesn't look like there will be much more info on Saturday

 Da Boss wrote:
Smug posters like you are just as bad as any hyperbolic "hater", JohnnyHell. We're making judgements based on the information we have. If you are happy to wait til later to see the full rules, go do that.

What is amusing to me is seeing the acceptance of KOW style rules by many who had decried KOW as "too simple" and lacking in depth. I guess it's different if it comes from GW rather than Mantic, right?

I thought people were saying the rules were similar to Wrath of Kings, not Kings of War (those two names do really blend together)?

Or does KoW and WoK both have similar rules?

They sound pretty similar to KOW to me too - having the stat you roll to succeed be determined by the model itself with modifiers applied by unit special rules is the core of KOW, and the break mechanic is broadly similar.

 Da Boss wrote:
Smug posters like you are just as bad as any hyperbolic "hater", JohnnyHell. We're making judgements based on the information we have. If you are happy to wait til later to see the full rules, go do that.

What is amusing to me is seeing the acceptance of KOW style rules by many who had decried KOW as "too simple" and lacking in depth. I guess it's different if it comes from GW rather than Mantic, right?

Dude, I meant wahhhh on all sides. Wahhhhhh just denotes noise and complaints and excitementt. It's all gone circular and it's tedious after page 138. Haha. But label me how you like, it's no biggie! Sun is shining, life is good, and I've plenty of plastic dollies to put together before going anywhere near this yet! #oopsquitesmug




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flashman wins the internetz, hahaha.

It is pretty smug to stand above everyone and piss over them all as crybabies when some people on here make their livelihoods from selling these games and so for them this is a very serious matter.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is pretty smug to stand above everyone and piss over them all as crybabies when some people on here make their livelihoods from selling these games and so for them this is a very serious matter.

Yeah, reading through mikhaila's posts is surprisingly gut-wrenching, even when we're talking about plastic figures.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is pretty smug to stand above everyone and piss over them all as crybabies when some people on here make their livelihoods from selling these games and so for them this is a very serious matter.

Well, at least GW isn't bypassing retailers on new releases/product launches with Kickstarter yet. So on that end, I think we're in relatively safe waters compared to .. dunno ... Zombicide or Mantic Games or Kingdom Death, etc...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If stores want to run tournaments (or simplify pickup games) all they need to do is set some limits for the games played in their store

eg 10 warscrolls worth (perhaps broken down by type if the warscrolls come like that)

They can... but they should then expect the typical whining you invariably get both in person and online about how "unfair" it is that the store/organization/tourny isn't "playing by the rules" and just making "house rules" when they're just trying to restore the balance that GW has abdicated their responsibility for managing. It'll be the fantasy equivalent of the "fluff bunnies" that just want to play their multisource Dark Eldar Inquisition Space Marine Knight Eldar net list and are told they can't. Just insert tired copy/paste horrors of comp thread and 3rd party restrictions on their game. How dare someone put back the sanity and limits that GW removed!?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
It is pretty smug to stand above everyone and piss over them all as crybabies when some people on here make their livelihoods from selling these games and so for them this is a very serious matter.

Well, at least GW isn't bypassing retailers on new releases/product launches with Kickstarter yet. So on that end, I think we're in relatively safe waters compared to .. dunno ... Zombicide or Mantic Games or Kingdom Death, etc...

"At least"? GW is the biggest dog in the pound... if they need to "kickstart" something, the whole industry is in trouble. Luckily, GW would likely never use KS because backers expect discounts there in return for placing in effect a long term preorder. GW doesn't do discounts and would rather trash stock than sell it at 40-50% off of what their own stores offer.

 warboss wrote:


"At least"? GW is the biggest dog in the pound... if they need to "kickstart" something, the whole industry is in trouble. Luckily, GW would likely never use KS because backers expect discounts there in return for placing in effect a long term preorder. GW doesn't do discounts and would rather trash stock than sell it at 40-50% off of what their own stores offer.

Doesn't help the FLGS-owners making "a living" with this.

Mikhaila & co. at least have the option of taking orders for new GW stuff the week it is announced and hype is high (if there is hype... Age of Sigmar might be a dud, but the next Space Marine Codex will be coming at some point).

Could she now take orders for Zombicide Black Plague, now that everyone's hyped for it? No.

 Da Boss wrote:
It is pretty smug to stand above everyone and piss over them all as crybabies when some people on here make their livelihoods from selling these games and so for them this is a very serious matter.

I'm not even gonna bite. Have a lovely day.

Ok so I just spoke with our GW guy for about a half an hour about Age of Sigmar. Here are the details:

[snip spoonfed corporate buzz]
+He said the game plays faster than WHFB, is simple at its core, but complex once you start throwing in all the unit specific rules. He said it would be much easier for new players to get into the hobby and the themed armies have really cool things up their sleeves.

All in all I am really excited. Putting all the rules out there for free, making any regiment box in effect a starter box, and keeping large scale battles relevant are smart moves. I cannot wait. More details to follow! Everyone will be able to start playing AoS on the fourth of july without spending a penny.

So the GW guy said it's the bestest game ever made ever
I'M SOLD!

You too buddy. But that wasn't bait, just my opinion.

rhavien wrote:Concerning the ' we cant take options anymore' maybe there will be more than one scroll where it would be appropriate? Easiest example statetroops. Sword/shield gets a better save, Spear has a longer reach and halbs better to wound.

I've been concerned about the possibility of options vanishing too, but I think we ought to admit that very few units appear in the 8E meta in more than one configuration. The change from 7E to 8E shook things up (saurus dropped their spears and picked up hand weapons, for example) because of core rules changes, but apart from weird hobbyists Doing Stuff Because Cool, players pretty much just take what's Obviously Good. It's the hypothetical drop of the wonderful common item lists of 8E that will hurt variety the most ... but a) who knows about character upgrades, and b) people tended to take the same stuff anyway

Apple fox wrote:We still don't know if GW is realy being entirely honest when they say can take any box or two of the shelf and play a game effectively.

Fun Project: challenge some friends / your club to grab a GeeDub box off the shelf, build it, paint it, play it, report back.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I love my BFG and have decided to run a campaign, so I'll just pop down to the local gaming shop and gather together all the other bfg... oh, there aren't any? That was a legitimate surprise, really...

Exalt! And I miss me some Tiny Space Grim Dark

- Salvage

Don't feed them. Just don't.
They like under the bridge and just want to give you a tour.

Just my two pennies but I'm kind of interested in seeing what its all about, which is a big thing really since I haven't touched GW stuff since 3rd edition 40k came out.

It strikes me that being able to take bits from different armies is very much like 3rd ed Warhams, which is what I started on, and if thats the case I'm a little excited for it.

A 4 page rulebook does seem...odd, but they've made so many errors over the years with pricing and rules-bloat that I can almost see why they've gone down this route.

Of course people are worried/annoyed, theres a lot of love, effort and cash invested in these games. As someone who could possibly get back into Warhams with this new ruleset I can be objective and sympathise with those who cannot. If they are rubbish, then I can move on, invested people cannot.

Im defiantly seeing pieces of KOW, LOTR, and 40k in this. Not much whfb. So this game in no way can replace whfb but it might be a feasible fantasy skirmish game that ill have people to game with. This has the makings of an enormous flop or, like lotr, a misunderstood excellent, tight, and tactical ruleset

 namiel wrote:
Im defiantly seeing pieces of KOW, LOTR, and 40k in this. Not much whfb. So this game in no way can replace whfb but it might be a feasible fantasy skirmish game that ill have people to game with. This has the makings of an enormous flop or, like lotr, a misunderstood excellent, tight, and tactical ruleset

Best case scenario, it's a good game that they killed WHFB to make (which to me, a fan of regimental games, is still "meh" at best). Worst case scenario they killed WHFB to make a mediocre skirmish game in a market where I can't throw a cat without hitting another skirmish game.

Though they do say it can be played with lots of models.... but it it's another game like 40k where you have 100's of individual models and a movement phase takes you an eternity then I'm not interested. I've never been a huge fan of that aspect of the 40k rules system.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Do we really have three more days of wahhhhh to endure before the Age of Sigwahhhh hits? Cos there's a lot of wahhhh going on based on very little info.

Complaining about complaining and simultaneously posting 3 off topic posts? Well played