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Those terrain kits look damn nice especially liking the portal thingy. Anyone got any better shots of them?

Peace! (Or is that totally inappropriate in this context?)

There is no Peace amongst the Stars only the.....

Wait , wrong game.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

migooo wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I'll be very sad if this really is GW's best shot at relaunching fantasy.

No this is the Accountants and Kirbys best shot at GW relaunching fantasy.

Kirby and the accountants ARE GW, like it or not.

For now at least. But yes unfortunately I have to agree.

If points don't matter, and balance comes down to a gamers agreement, then writing rules for new units is as easy as picking them off the top of your head. Let me ramble for a moment...

Suppose AoS sells well and is seen in gaming clubs around the world. People like the casual style of no points but don't want to buy another army for yet another game. Due to bases meaning nothing and balance being subjective they don't have to. All they need do is draft some rules for their own minis and tahdah - you've got GW Sagmarites vs PP Cryx, Mierce Khthones vs Perry War of the Roses.

While they might be using other peoples miniatures they're playing Games Workshop's game. Isn't that how Kings of War works? We could see a community of warscroll writers converting your favourite miniatures into AoS units.

 zedmeister wrote:

Spoiler:

 Klerych wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Isn't this boxset is just essentially an introduction set? As in designed for complete newbies to the hobby - very streamlined rules, no need to worry about army building (hence why there is no points listed anywhere, you just use the models in the box) and some narrative scenarios to help you structure a game on the tabletop.

While I think GW are doing an absolutely terrible job of selling this new system (their mindset of absolute secrecy until the day it drops is ridiculous in this day and age), I highly doubt this is the be all and end all of the new Warhammer game.

Reasonable possibility.

I agree with you two. There's a chance that all the whining and butthurt is actually result of poor reasoning as the 4 page rules are just starter set streamlined "basic rules". GW is famous for gorgeous limited edition rulebooks. Not to mention that there still has to be a bunch of special rules like ASF/ASL and others, so it's not too likely that they could put them all on one page.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. This is it. There's nothing else coming or planned:

Spoiler:

 mikhaila wrote:


Except for retailers who got their demo copies already. Busy tonite putting models together.

NO FETHING POINTS ANYWHERE.

Trust me, if it turns out that lots of people at GW US HQ are lying to me, and there is a big rule book, with in depth rules, and points....Wow, i'll be overjoyed. Might not even rip off their balls for lying to me.
But right now, I've got people I've known 20 years telling me "No points, designed that way".

Come Saturday, we'll all know everything. War scrolls and whatever else will be up.

I've made the most important point very large and bold in case you missed it. And Mikhalila isn't the only one saying the same thing. There's lots and lots of Denial and people going "Nah, I don't believe this. Surely this can't be it. It'll be good".

Question to the denier head in sand types: What would your reaction be when it is inevitably shown that this really is the sum of all the rules and nothing else is coming?

Be interesting certainly.

Apple fox wrote:
So it's not even designed for casual play, it's designed for the people who play with others enough to work out there own balance ?

Forgive me Talys but it seems the more I read of your posts (and a few others) it seems it's showing more of its flaws and that people are wanting a game that this one itself won't even give.

Mordheim as said above was great fun naritive wise, I had a vampire that when it come time to make the killing blow on my friends merc captan.
She would retreat, this happen every battle we had in a campaign lasting a year.
We become friends talking about why she allways refused to kill him and left allowing him to win the battles.
She had no mercy against anyone other.
This isn't a rule set that I think will give anything like that.
It seems the only thing it gives is being related to that other game it destroyed, I don't even think the minis are good enough to pull the game though on its own like I do think 40k does.

GW has a tough few months ahead to forge this game, and if it fails I think GW will be in a very tough time.

If you actually read my posts, you'd see that I haven't made any conclusion as to whether or not AoS will be fun. This kind of game generally isn't my thing (low model count skirmisher), so chances are, I probably won't like it. It also doesn't have futuristic guns, which is almost always a deal-killer for me. I'll still buy it because the models are cool.

Sigmar can't do much worse than Fantasy Battle was doing. At least people are TALKING about fantasy now. And I'm pretty sure GW will ship a lot more Sigmar boxes than they have of other Fantasy releases recently.

What I'm trying to do is explain Games Workshop's rationale, and their (apparently) anti-competitive play, pro-campaign stance. Generally speaking, I am not opposed to a tabletop wargame where players evolve balance based on their own gaming group. I'm prefer scenario-based play to pickup/tournament settings of setting up on opposing sides and fighting for no particular reason.

I am trying to tell you that there are people who enjoy the RPG-ish aspect of tabletop miniature warfare; call it a niche or whatever, if you will. And there are people for whom game balance may have some importance, but is low on the scale of importance, because they're used to making balance adjustments for all sorts of things already.

Make no mistake - 100% the most important thing for me is the models, with Sigmar, 40k, or any other miniature wargame. There can be a total absence of rules (ie no game at all), and I'll still buy it if the minis are cool. The difference is, if there are rules that encourage army building, I'll build vast armies; otherwise, I buy a few lone minis, paint them up, maybe play whatever game a few times, and stuff the minis in a display case.

I am not suggesting that there are, or aren't, a lot of people like me. Perhaps we are the minority. Perhaps we buy enough stuff that GW feels inclined to please us with their release cadence and type of product. Who knows. We may seem alien to you, and you might not comprehend our motivators, but we do exist in at least enough numbers to apparently keep 40k going in an incarnation that is unattractive to its detractors. There do exist people who actually really like 40k the way it is today, as baffling as that may seem to you.

And for the zillionth time, I've never, ever said that Sigmar is a good game, or has good rules, or that it will be fun, or that I'll even play it more than one night. I can also say that I haven't played Fantasy Battle ever (despite owning thousands of dollars of WHFB minis), have never felt an inclination to, and likely never will. So Sigmar will get at least 1 more game out of me than WHFB.

 Fezza213 wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

Spoiler:

 Klerych wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Isn't this boxset is just essentially an introduction set? As in designed for complete newbies to the hobby - very streamlined rules, no need to worry about army building (hence why there is no points listed anywhere, you just use the models in the box) and some narrative scenarios to help you structure a game on the tabletop.

While I think GW are doing an absolutely terrible job of selling this new system (their mindset of absolute secrecy until the day it drops is ridiculous in this day and age), I highly doubt this is the be all and end all of the new Warhammer game.

Reasonable possibility.

I agree with you two. There's a chance that all the whining and butthurt is actually result of poor reasoning as the 4 page rules are just starter set streamlined "basic rules". GW is famous for gorgeous limited edition rulebooks. Not to mention that there still has to be a bunch of special rules like ASF/ASL and others, so it's not too likely that they could put them all on one page.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. This is it. There's nothing else coming or planned:

Spoiler:

 mikhaila wrote:


Except for retailers who got their demo copies already. Busy tonite putting models together.

NO FETHING POINTS ANYWHERE.

Trust me, if it turns out that lots of people at GW US HQ are lying to me, and there is a big rule book, with in depth rules, and points....Wow, i'll be overjoyed. Might not even rip off their balls for lying to me.
But right now, I've got people I've known 20 years telling me "No points, designed that way".

Come Saturday, we'll all know everything. War scrolls and whatever else will be up.

I've made the most important point very large and bold in case you missed it. And Mikhalila isn't the only one saying the same thing. There's lots and lots of Denial and people going "Nah, I don't believe this. Surely this can't be it. It'll be good".

Question to the denier head in sand types: What would your reaction be when it is inevitably shown that this really is the sum of all the rules and nothing else is coming?

All this talk of Mordheim makes me wish I had a group to play that lovely game. Great mix of narrative and competitive. Maybe AoS can come up with some character leveling system to make it more interesting during campaigns.

 Talys wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
So it's not even designed for casual play, it's designed for the people who play with others enough to work out there own balance ?

Forgive me Talys but it seems the more I read of your posts (and a few others) it seems it's showing more of its flaws and that people are wanting a game that this one itself won't even give.

Mordheim as said above was great fun naritive wise, I had a vampire that when it come time to make the killing blow on my friends merc captan.
She would retreat, this happen every battle we had in a campaign lasting a year.
We become friends talking about why she allways refused to kill him and left allowing him to win the battles.
She had no mercy against anyone other.
This isn't a rule set that I think will give anything like that.
It seems the only thing it gives is being related to that other game it destroyed, I don't even think the minis are good enough to pull the game though on its own like I do think 40k does.

GW has a tough few months ahead to forge this game, and if it fails I think GW will be in a very tough time.

If you actually read my posts, you'd see that I haven't made any conclusion as to whether or not AoS will be fun. This kind of game generally isn't my thing (low model count skirmisher), so chances are, I probably won't like it. It also doesn't have futuristic guns, which is almost always a deal-killer for me. I'll still buy it because the models are cool.

Sigmar can't do much worse than Fantasy Battle was doing. At least people are TALKING about fantasy now. And I'm pretty sure GW will ship a lot more Sigmar boxes than they have of other Fantasy releases recently.

What I'm trying to do is explain Games Workshop's rationale, and their (apparently) anti-competitive play, pro-campaign stance. Generally speaking, I am not opposed to a tabletop wargame where players evolve balance based on their own gaming group. I'm prefer scenario-based play to pickup/tournament settings of setting up on opposing sides and fighting for no particular reason.

I am trying to tell you that there are people who enjoy the RPG-ish aspect of tabletop miniature warfare; call it a niche or whatever, if you will. And there are people for whom game balance may have some importance, but is low on the scale of importance, because they're used to making balance adjustments for all sorts of things already.

Make no mistake - 100% the most important thing for me is the models, with Sigmar, 40k, or any other miniature wargame. There can be a total absence of rules (ie no game at all), and I'll still buy it if the minis are cool. The difference is, if there are rules that encourage army building, I'll build vast armies; otherwise, I buy a few lone minis, paint them up, maybe play whatever game a few times, and stuff the minis in a display case.

I am not suggesting that there are, or aren't, a lot of people like me. Perhaps we are the minority. Perhaps we buy enough stuff that GW feels inclined to please us with their release cadence and type of product. Who knows.

And for the zillionth time, I've never, ever said that Sigmar is a good game, or has good rules, or that it will be fun, or that I'll even play it more than one night. I can also say that I haven't played Fantasy Battle ever (despite owning thousands of dollars of WHFB minis), have never felt an inclination to, and likely never will. So Sigmar will get at least 1 more game out of me than WHFB.

I honestly don't think they understand the market and everything they are doing is from fumbling around in the dark, 1 step forward, 1 back.
I am a huge RPG player, we incorperate our RPG characters from the iron kingdoms into games of warmachine.
I am part of the niche I think you are trying to describe, GW rational or not I still think what GW are doing is mostly daft.
If they had taken the time to sit back and re do new campaigns in the mordheim rule set, the rules probably wouldn't have been any more difficult as these. I would have been all over that, an update to the mordheim system to get all the current races in. And some new minis with a descent marketing campaign.

I am not entirely disagreeing with you it seems with this post clarifying, but I also think GW is just throwing out something quick in the hope people will bite at the cheepist possible price.
The only reason they choose these factions I think is the ability to repurpose them all to 40k for players there if this all goes bad for them, that will soften the blow.

As a thought seperate I am mostly here for the trainwreck marketing, I am amazed at this :0 GW knows how to make a bad marketing plan for sure.

Nice terrain kits, no great surprise from GW but still.

I think quite a few might get on board with starrealmgates on that basis.

I find myself a bit more convinced anyway!

To be honest, from what I've seen so far, if this was their effort at relaunching WHFB I'd have preferred they just announced that it wasn't making money and they were ceasing production of all products for it.

A thought just occurred to me: There have been rumours of a Horus Heresy game coming out.

Think about that for a moment...

 notprop wrote:
Nice terrain kits, no great surprise from GW but still.

Still not enough Khorne fortresses! We all need more skull-filled brass fortresses in our lives.

 Coyote81 wrote:
All this talk of Mordheim makes me wish I had a group to play that lovely game. Great mix of narrative and competitive. Maybe AoS can come up with some character leveling system to make it more interesting during campaigns.

Mordheim was alright.. it had major oversights and no support after the first few months (Par for the GW course). It has same inherent problem with blood bowl that was never resolved. Pick army with BS4, win game.. Or with bloodbowl, Pick team with AGI 4 and win game. Add ontop of that a faction that gets knowledge (or whatever the "search for loot" ability was that lets you add a die and discard one when you search) and get all 6 artifacts in under 10 games.

 Coyote81 wrote:
All this talk of Mordheim makes me wish I had a group to play that lovely game. Great mix of narrative and competitive. Maybe AoS can come up with some character leveling system to make it more interesting during campaigns.

Then check out Frostgrave. It's getting great reviews and some have even gone as far to say that it's even better than Mordheim.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:
All this talk of Mordheim makes me wish I had a group to play that lovely game. Great mix of narrative and competitive. Maybe AoS can come up with some character leveling system to make it more interesting during campaigns.

Mordheim was alright.. it had major oversights and no support after the first few months (Par for the GW course). It has same inherent problem with blood bowl that was never resolved. Pick army with BS4, win game.. Or with bloodbowl, Pick team with AGI 4 and win game. Add ontop of that a faction that gets knowledge (or whatever the "search for loot" ability was that lets you add a die and discard one when you search) and get all 6 artifacts in under 10 games.

Not forgetting the whole massive advantages of taking double weapons instead of weapon and shield problem.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Klerych wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Isn't this boxset is just essentially an introduction set? As in designed for complete newbies to the hobby - very streamlined rules, no need to worry about army building (hence why there is no points listed anywhere, you just use the models in the box) and some narrative scenarios to help you structure a game on the tabletop.

While I think GW are doing an absolutely terrible job of selling this new system (their mindset of absolute secrecy until the day it drops is ridiculous in this day and age), I highly doubt this is the be all and end all of the new Warhammer game.

Reasonable possibility.

I agree with you two. There's a chance that all the whining and butthurt is actually result of poor reasoning as the 4 page rules are just starter set streamlined "basic rules". GW is famous for gorgeous limited edition rulebooks. Not to mention that there still has to be a bunch of special rules like ASF/ASL and others, so it's not too likely that they could put them all on one page.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. This is it. There's nothing else coming or planned:

 mikhaila wrote:


Except for retailers who got their demo copies already. Busy tonite putting models together.

NO FETHING POINTS ANYWHERE.

Trust me, if it turns out that lots of people at GW US HQ are lying to me, and there is a big rule book, with in depth rules, and points....Wow, i'll be overjoyed. Might not even rip off their balls for lying to me.
But right now, I've got people I've known 20 years telling me "No points, designed that way".

Come Saturday, we'll all know everything. War scrolls and whatever else will be up.

I've made the most important point very large and bold in case you missed it. And Mikhalila isn't the only one saying the same thing. There's lots and lots of Denial and people going "Nah, I don't believe this. Surely this can't be it. It'll be good".

Question to the denier head in sand types: What would your reaction be when it is inevitably shown that this really is the sum of all the rules and nothing else is coming?

I said there's a chance, not tht I'm sure - GW made a lot of terrible choices lately, but I try not to be the doom & gloom guy - I value my peace of mind too much to actually care and I won't cry (too much) if the game sucks - I play half a dozen other systems too, so one less means I can find another one. If it's true what you say, then okay, whatever - games pop up and die all the time. Will be sad to watch WFB do it, it's been around since the dawn of time, but this too shall pass.

Question to you, though... what would your reaction be if it turns out that it's actually more in-depth than you claim based on what someone said? Will you eat your shoes? Will you feel like a total tool for believing and propagating that? For convincing others that it's almost as if it was set in stone? No, I think you're decent enough to just say "okay, I was wrong, whatever", but a bajillion others will not even comment on that - they will just shut up pretending that they didn't preach it. Just like those guys that always get pumped about the end of the world - each time they're convinced it'll happen, it never does, they never admit that they were gullible fools. Same thing happens with lots of people on these forums.

All in all I voiced an opinion that there's a chance, you on the other hand act like you're 110% sure. If I am wrong, it's okay, I didn't really preach it, nor I tried to convince others. What if you're wrong?

 Kirasu wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:
All this talk of Mordheim makes me wish I had a group to play that lovely game. Great mix of narrative and competitive. Maybe AoS can come up with some character leveling system to make it more interesting during campaigns.

Mordheim was alright.. it had major oversights and no support after the first few months (Par for the GW course). It has same inherent problem with blood bowl that was never resolved. Pick army with BS4, win game.. Or with bloodbowl, Pick team with AGI 4 and win game. Add ontop of that a faction that gets knowledge (or whatever the "search for loot" ability was that lets you add a die and discard one when you search) and get all 6 artifacts in under 10 games.

You need to play the game more and perhaps did not have enough terrain. BS4 was not remotely enough to autowin mordheim games. There were too many scenarios that allowed you to win without having to hunt down you opponents shooting models and exposing yourself to that BS4 shooting. There are plenty of shooting modifiers in that game as well. honestly the only warbands I was ever really concerned that were broken consisted of either Possessed or Vampires because they started so far ahead stat wise. Even then, enough attacks will get crits through and take those guys down as well.

 Klerych wrote:


I said there's a chance, not tht I'm sure - GW made a lot of terrible choices lately, but I try not to be the doom & gloom guy - I value my peace of mind too much to actually care and I won't cry (too much) if the game sucks - I play half a dozen other systems too, so one less means I can find another one. If it's true what you say, then okay, whatever - games pop up and die all the time. Will be sad to watch WFB do it, it's been around since the dawn of time, but this too shall pass.

Question to you, though... what would your reaction be if it turns out that it's actually more in-depth than you claim based on what someone said? Will you eat your shoes? Will you feel like a total tool for believing and propagating that? For convincing others that it's almost as if it was set in stone? No, I think you're decent enough to just say "okay, I was wrong, whatever", but a bajillion others will not even comment on that - they will just shut up pretending that they didn't preach it. Just like those guys that always get pumped about the end of the world - each time they're convinced it'll happen, it never does, they never admit that they were gullible fools. Same thing happens with lots of people on these forums.

All in all I voiced an opinion that there's a chance, you on the other hand act like you're 110% sure. If I am wrong, it's okay, I didn't really preach it, nor I tried to convince others. What if you're wrong?

Me? I have no stake in this. I sold most of fantasy stuff off ages ago and now only tend to Warhammer Quest it from time to time. The success or failure of Age of Space Marines won't affect me in anyshape. I have no interest in a game that looks like 40k. Though, Ironically, I was looking up Warhammer 4th Edition spares the other day...

As for the rights and wrongs business, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But, the fact that they [GW] destroyed a, for some bods, long enjoyed and treasured game for what is an insipid and uninspired pile just grates. There was a lot of "Surely this isn't it" at the start, but with everything to be shown, confirmed, etc from some trusted people means that the whole "wait and see and stop being whiners" crowd irritates. There's a lot of hatred, denial and just outright "What have you [GW] done?". You can lump me in the last category with a slight sprinkle of the first.

I think Talys had it right in comparing it to Space Hulk a few pages or so back.

It's a boardgame masquerading as a table top game. I imagine the prime concern when making it would of been something simple to demo in shop to attract new players.

Now that I know it's scenario led, I'm probably going to pick it up and will probably get as much fun out of the boxset as I did out of Space Hulk initially.
If GW manage to keep my long term interest by releasing fun scenarios every now and again, so much the better.

In some ways I'm quite excited by it now, and almost nostalgic for old GW who used to crank out something like this every other month

I still have a little bit of faith that this might end up being okay. I just see it as a way for people to start fantasy but now it's the ONLY fantasy game so that's concerning to me.
I dropped 40k (well I still play with my buddies every once in a while but its to simplified for me) and now fantasy might turn into another 40k.

We will see what happens though, it might end up being pretty good! We never really know you til the rules come up and warscrolls tmrw.
I'll be downloading it and maybe having a practice game to test it out but I love 8th so me and my hundreds of ratties will probably stick with that

What happens when later scenarios are released with new model kits to march them but none of your existing models are included in scenarios? I have 100s of Ogre minis, sorry Ogors, but there's no guarantee that these prescriptive battles *shudder at how boring that will be* will support them.

 agnosto wrote:
What happens when later scenarios are released with new model kits to march them but none of your existing models are included in scenarios? I have 100s of Ogre minis, sorry Ogors, but there's no guarantee that these prescriptive battles *shudder at how boring that will be* will support them.

I agree with this. I have over 400 - 450 skaven models (give or take lol) and I want to make sure they are supported.
My real concern though is how long the current model lineup, for all armies, will last. I have about 500-750 points of empire and wanted to create a large army but I'm afraid that one day in the near future I will check the GW website and BOOM the models will no longer be there. No warning.

That's what scares me the most about this, not the rules, not the new models, not the direction GW wants to go with this, but the support of the model lineup

Terrain looks to be the best thing to come out of all this.

But being GW, it will be expensive.

Have we seen more terrain beside the Snakey Portal to Dragonbubble?

 Alpharius wrote:
Have we seen more terrain beside the Snakey Portal to Dragonbubble?

Warhams-77 wrote:
These seem to be from Twitter - via Tabletopwelt.de - some not-so-good quality photos of the terrain kits







That style is generic fantasy in a good way

 agnosto wrote:
What happens when later scenarios are released with new model kits to march them but none of your existing models are included in scenarios? I have 100s of Ogre minis, sorry Ogors, but there's no guarantee that these prescriptive battles *shudder at how boring that will be* will support them.

I imagine each new kit/scenario will be much like a boardgame expansion.
It wouldn't suprise me if GW hadn't thought more long term than selling the starter and a couple of expansions to each player.

It must suck for exisiting fantasy players to have this come along, but for me I quite like the idea of it.
I've not played fantasy since Ravening Hordes days, and don't have much gaming time at all. I like the initial smaller scale, and I'll be quite happy spending my time painting some of those minis up in prep for an occaisonal game.

Wow... they're ripping off Stargate something fierce, aren't they.

They are very nice - thanks for re-posting them!

 Albertorius wrote:
Wow... they're ripping off Stargate something fierce, aren't they.

Which, ya know, just ripped Star Trek




That said, some kind of "dimensional/mystic/underworld"-gate of that kind can probably be found even in ancient greek/roman/norse/whatever epics from 1000 to 3000 years ago.

Well, i'm very underwhelmed. This is a clear move to make fantasy more like 40k and you know what, i liked it more as it was. Maybe it will one day grow on me but atm fantasy was better as fantasy was.