Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The more I read through the more I love these statblocks. So long as they had points and some semblance of balance I'd love to see this style of unit entry make its way to 40k.

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
While logic isn't a thing with gw, I'm failing to understand why they include update rules for special characters that shouldn't exist in any way considering the events that transpired before age of sigmar. This was their chance to wipe the slate clean of characters that don't have a plastic new model and come up with new ones. If forge the narrative is a thing for playing with rules you must act out or vocalize sounds, the. Forging the narrative of not playing with characters that are beyond the realm of the dead

There must be loads of players who have metal or (God forbid) Finecast special character figures, who would not want to throw them away because not included in the new game.

I think it is a good move by GW to include these characters. They should be congratulated.

I don't like the shouting rules but that can always be ignored. It's good in a game for 10 year olds.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

 wana10 wrote:
What about using the old army comp with wounds instead of points?

however many wounds
up to 25% can be heroes/wizard
at least 25% must be core
up to 25% can be elite
up to 25% can be lord of war?

You still run into Chaos Warrior vs Goblin syndrome.

If I have to take 30 goblins, and your only tax is 30 chaos warriors, that really sucks for me.

It's why I think "Core" needs redifined as things that have base hit and wound stats of no better than 4's or maybe 5's, with maybe an exception for ogres.

Chaos warriors have two wounds goblins have one so your 30 goblins is actually only 15 warriors of chaos.

OMG

Nagash, Hand of Dust ....you literally hide a dice in one of your hands and your opponent has to guess which one it is in...this is so dumb.....so dumb

Somewhere hidden in these scrolls is rock, paper, scissors....i bet it's there....

All Chaos Wizards know summon everything...and only need a 6 to summon 10 lesser demons!?! That's a below average roll for god sake....can you say blatant money grab. Oh yeah its a skirmish game..yeah right, its a pay to win game now.

jaceimba wrote:

Again, fateweaver combo is not possible, cause you choose a single dice roll , 13 is not possible with 2d6. It's saying I would choose 100 for my d3 mortal wound roll.

Even if we accept the premise that Fateweaver's ability only works on a single die out of the 2D6 (which is grammatically incorrect, "Dice" is plural, and Oracle of Eternity works on a single "dice" roll - singular roll of plural dice), the rule says you may choose the result, it does NOT say the result must be one legitimately obtainable normally through the use of six-sided dice

- roll 2D6, get a 1 and a 4, "choose the result" of the 1 to be a 9, total is 13, instant win. the nine is the "result of my choosing" as dictated by the rule

The screaming bell disallows modifiers. How is the fateweaver changing the result not modifying the dice roll?

Charax wrote:

jaceimba wrote:

Again, fateweaver combo is not possible, cause you choose a single dice roll , 13 is not possible with 2d6. It's saying I would choose 100 for my d3 mortal wound roll.

Even if we accept the premise that Fateweaver's ability only works on a single die out of the 2D6 (which is grammatically incorrect, "Dice" is plural, and Oracle of Eternity works on a single "dice" roll - singular roll of plural dice), the rule says you may choose the result, it does NOT say the result must be one legitimately obtainable normally through the use of six-sided dice

- roll 2D6, get a 1 and a 4, "choose the result" of the 1 to be a 9, total is 13, instant win. the nine is the "result of my choosing" as dictated by the rule

If you don't choose from the possible results of the dice, then you might as well say your d3 mortal wound be 10000000000000000000000 wound and use 6 sided dice with value 100-600 because the rule only say you use a d6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wana10 wrote:
The screaming bell disallows modifiers. How is the fateweaver changing the result not modifying the dice roll?

Because they would argue that you only set the roll to a number and not adding modifiers to it(+1/-1)

I had a rude realization: not even D&D forces you to "roleplay" things in real life. I feel that for someone who wants to play some serious, not-comical fantasy, it'll be like expecting to watch Jurassic Park but the T-rex is Barney the Dinosaur.

Really looking forward to trying this after mikhaila's very positive impressions. Will obviously ignore the stupid special rules for shouting or doing funny voices should it come up in a game.

To the people comparing this to children's games or very simple board games: really? I'm sure you realize that having a few silly rules (like the aforementioned yelling special rules) don't cancel out the complexity of the rest of the game, right? The core rules plus the Warscrolls look like they create a reasonably complex system, certainly far above any children's game I've played and on par with many other miniature games. it's way less complex than 8th obviously, but that doesn't mean much since those rules were some of the most complex out there.

So.. reading the Skaven Doombell.. it seems the only way to get thirteen would be to have doctored one of your dice to a seven.. thus the cheater line.

A bit naughty GW.

 Xyxox wrote:
Has anybody else noticed the the single largest and most visible wargames miniature company has just become the biggest laughingstock in the entire industry?

I think that might be a bit premature. If this thing sells like hotcakes - GW will be the ones laughing last, no matter what all us old grognards say.

Dakka really isn't representative of the GW playerbase as a whole. I know plenty of players who don't even know what Dakka -is-, nor do they bother with gaming forums or whatnot. It will be interesting to see after a couple months what the reaction is, how sales are, and how GW responds to those level of sales. If the game flops - we could see a stiff drop-off, and with changes this radical, I wouldn't be surprised if GW has 'back up plans' or a 'plan B' in-mind. Maybe they don't, I dunno. If the game takes off - will 40K get the same treatment with its 8th edition?

Other folks might be laughing now, but the -real- important laughs will be in a few months when we see the results of this release.

I feel very flat. That's the only way I can describe it I think. It's just weird. The ridiculous shouting rules have basically killed the last of my enthusiasm.

 quickfuze wrote:
OMG

Nagash, Hand of Dust ....you literally hide a dice in one of your hands and your opponent has to guess which one it is in...this is so dumb.....so dumb
.

Sooooo....

Instead of having you roll a dice and telling you to roll a 4+ for a single special ability of a single special character.... they have you put a dice in a hand, and let your opponent pick.

50/50 either way.

Why are people so butt-hurt by things like this? If you don't like it - just roll a d6 and on a 4+ you succeed. It's not rocket-science.

Don't like the 'character' type abilities? Don't do them. Tell your opponent it's stupid. If your opponent is someone you know, chances are they will agree, or just not care. Then you move on with your game.

Some people are really trying too hard to be negative-nancies here.

 Mort wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
OMG

Nagash, Hand of Dust ....you literally hide a dice in one of your hands and your opponent has to guess which one it is in...this is so dumb.....so dumb
.

Sooooo....

Instead of having you roll a dice and telling you to roll a 4+ for a single special ability of a single special character.... they have you put a dice in a hand, and let your opponent pick.

50/50 either way.

Why are people so butt-hurt by things like this? If you don't like it - just roll a d6 and on a 4+ you succeed. It's not rocket-science.

Don't like the 'character' type abilities? Don't do them. Tell your opponent it's stupid. If your opponent is someone you know, chances are they will agree, or just not care. Then you move on with your game.

Some people are really trying too hard to be negative-nancies here.

So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game? Okay gw fanboy ...keep white knighting and making excuses for reasons to let them off the hook. I'm a 25year veteran and I am finally walking away. I will use what minis I have as proxy in other game systems... that is what I dont unload. I have nearly $ 10k in minis and I will be spending not one more Cent on whfb

Does anyone know what it means in a warscroll when a unit has a * in place of a number for a stat? All of the bloodthirsters have a * for their movement profile...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Does anyone know what it means in a warscroll when a unit has a * in place of a number for a stat? One of the bloodthirsters has a * for its movement profile...

I think it means it's variable and there's a chart showing how it changes when they take wounds.

They got rid of Kugath...

...

...

...

... I... think I just died a little... the stupid abilities, the characters that *should* be dead but aren't...
Why?

They did away with the LITERAL PLAGUEFATHER!!!!

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Does anyone know what it means in a warscroll when a unit has a * in place of a number for a stat? One of the bloodthirsters has a * for its movement profile...

I think it means it's variable and there's a chart showing how it changes when they take wounds.

Damn, you're right.


Anyway, Don't know how feel yet. Looks VERY easy to play but ONLy with friends who aren't pricks. No points/way to organize and balance armies in anyway is just something I cannot comprehend.

WHFB drew me into the Warhammer universe around 25 years ago, back when WHFB was the main game and people had a few space marines on the side for small games of Rogue Trader/40k. The depth of history and wealth of background had me hooked. I've read large numbers of books set in the WHFB universe, classics such as the Konrad Saga and Beasts in Velvet, and once spent two hours poring over a map of The Empire, reading about the different provinces and wondering which I would like to paint my minis as. Throughout my life, picking up old White Dwarfs or re-reading worn and dog-eared books was like visiting an old friend.

I am going to employ Mokusatsu, 'to kill with silent contempt' for AoS, and move on.

 quickfuze wrote:
So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game?

What kind of friends do you have that it takes two hours to say "let's not use Special Characters, they are silly"?

 quickfuze wrote:

So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game? Okay gw fanboy ...keep white knighting and making excuses for reasons to let them off the hook. I'm a 25year veteran and I am finally walking away. I will use what minis I have as proxy in other game systems... that is what I dont unload. I have nearly $ 10k in minis and I will be spending not one more Cent on whfb

If you don't like this new system... don't play it.

Simply continue to play WHFB 3-8 (whichever your group prefers), or KoW. Selling your models off seems a bit of a /ragequit reaction. Especially since we knew they were going to be changing the status quo in a radical way for some time. Cool off and come back to it in a week. (Not AoS - your model collection).

 Ahtman wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game?

What kind of friends do you have that it takes two hours to say "let's not use Special Characters, they are silly"?

But you can't do that, some units got squatted, like Heralds on Steeds, some of them you *HAVE* to use a special character warscroll, for a Herald on Palanquin, you *HAVE* to use Epidemius.

Skulltaker on juggy and chariot is gone though.... So much gone...

You know, when you're the subject of a joke, even a spiteful, offensive joke, you always have two options: you can fly off the handle, rage and scream and generally add to the misery of yourself and everyone around you, or you can laugh and roll with it, because what's done is done and not giving a feth is the best way to disarm someone who's trying to rile you up.

A lot of people in this community are failing spectacularly to pick the correct option.

 Talys wrote:

Not very flattering for AoS or Fantasy, I'll be the first to admit, but it occurred to me that it's a great strategy for GW to get a few bucks out of me without much work. Of course, the Sigmarites having the Space Marine aesthetic (or at least the "heroic paladin aesthetic") helps that immensely.

I don't mind the 'make it simple' approach - in fact I prefer my rules pretty simple - but somehow you'd still expect there's a game left to play. I'm looking at this and I see no reason to pick it up, except a few decent models. The rules are half of the box, IMO - why pick up a two-player game, if the "game" part consists of putting a few models on table, then doing a chicken dance around it?

However, I'm interested to see what happens if the AoS ever makes it to the 2nd edition - if they re-introduce some of the core mechanics, it might become a decent game.

It depends on whether it's fun or not. Mikhala seemed to think the game itself was fun and the flaws were more with the lack of balancing. If the game is fun, then it's fun, after all.

 Mort wrote:
Sooooo....

Instead of having you roll a dice and telling you to roll a 4+ for a single special ability of a single special character.... they have you put a dice in a hand, and let your opponent pick.

50/50 either way.

Why are people so butt-hurt by things like this? If you don't like it - just roll a d6 and on a 4+ you succeed. It's not rocket-science.

No, it's not. Which is why GW should have been capable of doing it themselves. You should never add a rule without knowing what that rule is meant to accomplish. Magic has used similar rules, but the rule done right makes it more than a different way of doing a coin flip - in the case of Master of Predicaments, the fact that picking an expensive card and your opponent guessing wrong gives you a bigger reward than picking a cheap card and your opponent guessing wrong encourages making an informed choice on both sides instead of the optimal play being pure randomness to avoid being predicted by your opponent.

I just can't believe the amount of stupid in the Daemons PDF *ALONE* Like, Skulltaker literally cannot die, he can keep rerolling failed saves... Gee, that's not broken at all? is it?

Generic Heralds with banners/steeds are gone. You can't use a herald of nurgle on palanquin, you have to use Epidemius.

Kairos can just change a result to anything you choose, Okay, my 36 attack die are all sixes. Skulltaker uses all 6's on his attack roll. He scores 3 mortal wounds per 6.

You have to dance to get the bonus for the Masque... You have to seduce a model... This is fething stupid...

EDIT: BTW, the guy who just used Minister of Predicaments from MTG as an example of regular design, that was a guest designed card specifically for M15, designed by David Sirlin, not by Wizards RnD. These new abilities are more closely compared to the MTG set Unhinged or Unglued... which aren't tournament legal BTW.

It would seem that GW have forgotten that many people still do play at LGS, and I doubt anyone is willing to look stupid just for a +1 bonus...

 quickfuze wrote:


So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game? Okay gw fanboy ...keep white knighting and making excuses for reasons to let them off the hook. I'm a 25year veteran and I am finally walking away. I will use what minis I have as proxy in other game systems... that is what I dont unload. I have nearly $ 10k in minis and I will be spending not one more Cent on whfb

First off - you're making stuff up. Nowhere did I say anything about 'negotiating'. Even if I had, I doubt it would take 'two hours' to 'negotiate' anything. More like 10 minutes. When I play, I try to play with like-minded people. That being the case, 'negotiation' shouldn't take long. If I am 'negotiating' with someone after two hours, we certainly are not 'like-minded', and I would have moved on by then.

Secondly - nothing in my post was directed toward an 'even foundation' for the game. I just think there are bigger problems than 'fluff' requirements for a handful of special characters. Some of those requirements are silly. Most of them take less than two seconds, and require minimal effort for some in-game benefit. If you really feel 'dumb' doing them, then don't. Or simply ask your opponent if you can skip the requirement. My guess is most people would shrug and say 'let's get on with the game already'.

Thirdly - I was not 'white-knighting'. If that's the only response you have, I have to wonder if you bothered reading my post at all. There's -plenty- with this release to be alarmed about, but the crying in this thread about some of the 'fluff' mechanics is just silly. "OMG! I have to hide a dice in one hand and my opponent has to pick!" It's the same as rolling a d6 and succeeding on a 4+. Seriously - what is the big deal? If that's the biggest complaint some folks have, then I don't think the game is as bad as they make it out to be. There are -much- larger fish to fry.

Fourthly - I am sad to hear that you're walking away - without even trying a single game. With all that money in figs, and all those years invested, I would think spending a few hours trying the system (without spending a penny) wouldn't be a whole lot to ask. But apparently, that's too much for you and some of the others in this thread. To you and others like that - all we can do is wave.

But the bottom line is - this is the direction WHFB is going - with, or without you. You can sit in a thread in a forum and rage, you can give the game a shot, or you can move on. Those are just a few of your options. Sadly, GW doesn't care what you do, and most people on this forum don't care what you do, either. You're rightfully disappointed, as many of us are... but some of the things people rant about are just nonsensical. It really has such a miniscule effect on the game I don't understand how it really even matters.

But that's just me. Good luck to you in whatever game you pursue!

I was really positive about this, but having spent a morning reading the demon and goblin scrolls, I'm out.

Gutted, was hoping I could get rid of my Cryx, forget WM and get into this. I know you can just not do the stupid bits, but the rules are all a bit vague, there's honestly been no playtesting by the looks of it.

Hope it brings some younger people into the game, as it's clearly looking for the next generation of tabletop gamer

@PlaguelordHobbyServices

Except, you know, he CAN'T keep re-rolling saves as you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Kairos can only change a single dice roll per game, so only 1 of those 36 attack dice rolls is a 6.

You can easily ignore the silly 'dance/seduce' rules if you want, just tell your opponent you don't want either of you to look like a pair of twits.

I'll give you that the loss of banner heralds is annoying. I'm annoyed that I've lost Heirotitans for Tomb Kings. However there's no need to use hyperbole to make everything seem worse than it actually is...

At least Elves lost the dreaded BOTWD. That's got to be a plus for daemons .