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 streamdragon wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

First rule i put on my "how the feth do i run tournaments" list was 1) No summoning.

Doesn't this essentially render some units useless?

I think something more along the lines of only casting a summon spell once per army per battle. (i.e. no two wizards casting the same summon, once one is successful the spell can no longer be cast) This would still allow for a ton of extra models to be summoned, but they would have to be different models/spells each time.

Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.

'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.

This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.

I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.

Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...

 streamdragon wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

First rule i put on my "how the feth do i run tournaments" list was 1) No summoning.

Doesn't this essentially render some units useless?

I'm assuming refilling like the Tomb Kings is ok. That said why would it render some units useless? Wizards are still wizards and know other spells and can stop opposing spells. Curious what units no summoning would make pointless.

 agnosto wrote:
Do people seriously not bother to look at the thread before posting pics that have posted 3 times already?

Give people a break. This thread generates 5-10 pages per day.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It boggles my mind that people are still trying to figure out a way to adapt this into a tournament/pick-up tier game?

WHY? Why not just play 8th edition fantasy in tournaments and pick-ups? Like it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why anyone would bother going through the house-rule hell of trying to "balance" a game that is unequivocally built from the ground up to NOT be a serious tactical game. Age of Sigmar is literally in the same genre of games as Trouble, Mouse-Trap and Perfection.

Like, someone explain this phenomenon to me.

Because honestly, 8th edition was a mess. Ridiculous Herohammer games with oversized, un-maneuverable units got to be the norm. It was slow paced and horribly balanced. WFB was dying for a reason.

AOS fixes a lot of the problems by making things a bit more abstract. Units have 4 stats instead of 9. Most things are streamlined. The model count has been greatly reduced. These are the things people have wanted for awhile. The problem is the lack of points and the silly "Yell at each other" rules. But those things can be fixed. Now, whether adding points would actually result in a balanced game has yet to be seen. But its worth a try. At this point GW players are so starved for a well written rule set, they will take whatever they can get.

I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
While logic isn't a thing with gw, I'm failing to understand why they include update rules for special characters that shouldn't exist in any way considering the events that transpired before age of sigmar. This was their chance to wipe the slate clean of characters that don't have a plastic new model and come up with new ones. If forge the narrative is a thing for playing with rules you must act out or vocalize sounds, the. Forging the narrative of not playing with characters that are beyond the realm of the dead

There must be loads of players who have metal or (God forbid) Finecast special character figures, who would not want to throw them away because not included in the new game.

I think it is a good move by GW to include these characters. They should be congratulated.

I don't like the shouting rules but that can always be ignored. It's good in a game for 10 year olds.

Yeah I think that is the least of their concerns. This whole game seems to be a mess. Their logic for their own fluff, rules etc. they want you buy new product not play with your old

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.

"Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC

So when is the Canadian website going to update? Is this cause it saturday so no update for us til monday?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.

'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.

This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.

I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.

Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...

You, me, and a few others, are the only people that can actually see this new game for the steaming pile of gak that it actually is. The tragedy is that this is a company that gave us Necromunda and Space Hulk, reduced to this. Now they're laughing at us. Well, laugh away GW, because my money is going elsewhere.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It boggles my mind that people are still trying to figure out a way to adapt this into a tournament/pick-up tier game?

WHY? Why not just play 8th edition fantasy in tournaments and pick-ups? Like it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why anyone would bother going through the house-rule hell of trying to "balance" a game that is unequivocally built from the ground up to NOT be a serious tactical game. Age of Sigmar is literally in the same genre of games as Trouble, Mouse-Trap and Perfection.

Like, someone explain this phenomenon to me.

Because honestly, 8th edition was a mess. Ridiculous Herohammer games with oversized, un-maneuverable units got to be the norm. It was slow paced and horribly balanced. WFB was dying for a reason.

AOS fixes a lot of the problems by making things a bit more abstract. Units have 4 stats instead of 9. Most things are streamlined. The model count has been greatly reduced. These are the things people have wanted for awhile. The problem is the lack of points and the silly "Yell at each other" rules. But those things can be fixed. Now, whether adding points would actually result in a balanced game has yet to be seen. But its worth a try. At this point GW players are so starved for a well written rule set, they will take whatever they can get.

You forget 8th was a mess of GW's own making. Nobody denies fantasy needed change, but GW cured the headache by cutting off the head!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.

Newsflash for you - they just did!

MongooseMatt wrote:
Well, we actually tried out the game today, with old Warhammer armies (Vampire Counts vs. Wood Elves). You can see the results here;

https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/age-of-sigmar-battle-report-vampire-counts-vs-wood-elves/

Short Story: It is actually quite a good game...

I might actually be adding to my undead army based on that battle report.

 Xyxox wrote:
I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until they decide to Sigmar 40K, so taking the timing thing into account I will be putting my Dark Angels up on eBay. I'm keeping my Ork Boyz as it looks like those will be usable with Mantic's Warpath game and of course my Empire, O&G, Dwarf, and Lizardman armies will beplayed under KoW rules, so no need to sell them off.

Yep ..my tau, nids and dark eldar are all going by by

So, GW's idea of people who play WHFB are immature neckbearded manchildren.

Good show, GW. Glad to see you hate your customers as much as your customers think you hate them.

GW's message seems to be this: thank you loyal fans for supporting us for years. Of course you can use your old stuff, bought with hard earned money, but only if it has silly rules. We only care about our new stuff anyway, so we don't mind if we you off, because customer service and building a community is SOOOOO overated.

Well, I've got a message as well: up yours Kirby!!!

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.

"Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC

Well, I guess AOS will be the ultimate test of whether GW's impression of their customers as people whose hobby is "collecting Citadel miniatures" will prove correct!

 quickfuze wrote:

 Xyxox wrote:
I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until they decide to Sigmar 40K, so taking the timing thing into account I will be putting my Dark Angels up on eBay. I'm keeping my Ork Boyz as it looks like those will be usable with Mantic's Warpath game and of course my Empire, O&G, Dwarf, and Lizardman armies will beplayed under KoW rules, so no need to sell them off.

Yep ..my tau, nids and dark eldar are all going by by

I think you guys may be misreading the situation significantly. No biggie for me though; cheap minis!

Relapse wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Well, we actually tried out the game today, with old Warhammer armies (Vampire Counts vs. Wood Elves). You can see the results here;

https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/age-of-sigmar-battle-report-vampire-counts-vs-wood-elves/

Short Story: It is actually quite a good game...

I might actually be adding to my undead army based on that battle report.

You are going to be wanting at least one unit of everything that can be summoned And that includes Zombie Dragons (good luck trying to summon it, but it will be so sweet when you do ).

No one buy anything from GW.
I don't care how shiny those sigmarines are, they aren't getting money for their disregard of their own IP.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I didn't say people who like this game are children. I said that the game is for children.

I have seen this a few times on this thread. I played a game today against my 12yo son (High Elves v Dark Elves) using AoS rules. We just randomly decided what units seemed balanced based on prior experience. Whilst we still enjoyed the game and by luck it was close (and my War Hyrdra messed up his horrible Sword Masters for a change), even he realised the old rules were much better. We discussed the new rules over dinner and the only positives we could come up with were a bit simpler for beginners and they were free. Rules that made some units viable (like high initiative or a wide selection of magic) are gone.

But even my 12yo son who loves pouring over the codexes and working out which units are OP/UP was going through his rule book having no clue whether a unit is any good as there is simply no way to compare anything. e.g. My expensive $$ Witch Elves now seem to suck badly and since there is no points value, or need to field core... well they do suck. I think

It's a flat, dull system.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.

'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.

This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.

I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.

Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...

This^ sums things up somewhat. After customers have spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on GW product and all the time building and painting those models for GW to turn WHFantasy into a children's game and give every customer the middle finger rather than put real effort into making a decent 9th ed ruleset to win customers back, why would anyone reward GW with more money? GW clearly shows it cares little about the games and their customers. It is sad for games (WHF and 40K) that have such potential that GW cannot see why people are upset and walking away. IMO, most players just want a decently balanced ruleset that allows them to use their armies where the rules are decently written and most units are also decent options to take. Why would I invest more time and money into any of their games if I can expect them to trash the line in such a way. I have to wonder if GW financials keep showing the company revenue is going down will 40K have this same AoS moment? There is never any guarantee that a company/product line will remain profitable but you would think that GW would do some real research to find out why - such as seriously looking at the good and bad of their product (means being honest), talking to lots of their consumers to try to learn why people are leaving a game (what makes a good game for most people).

ColOfTheDead wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I didn't say people who like this game are children. I said that the game is for children.

I have seen this a few times on this thread. I played a game today against my 12yo son (High Elves v Dark Elves) using AoS rules. We just randomly decided what units seemed balanced based on prior experience. Whilst we still enjoyed the game and by luck it was close (and my War Hyrdra messed up his horrible Sword Masters for a change), even he realised the old rules were much better. We discussed the new rules over dinner and the only positives we could come up with were a bit simpler for beginners and they were free. Rules that made some units viable (like high initiative or a wide selection of magic) are gone.

But even my 12yo son who loves pouring over the codexes and working out which units are OP/UP was going through his rule book having no clue whether a unit is any good as there is simply no way to compare anything. e.g. My expensive $$ Witch Elves now seem to suck badly and since there is no points value, or need to field core... well they do suck. I think

It's a flat, dull system.

Yeah, it seems this is GW's response to balancing units:

"Don't feel like your unit is as strong as it should be? Then just buy another kit and play again!"

Permanent arms race.

Must admit I can;t recall a GW subject more polarised recently except for the Eldar Codex

Did anyone notice this model fighting the Bloodthirster?



Looks to be a Heroic Basile.... Ange... Persuc....

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.

'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.

This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.

I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.

Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...

Exalted!

I LOL'd, and then I cried...

pretre wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Do people seriously not bother to look at the thread before posting pics that have posted 3 times already?

Give people a break. This thread generates 5-10 pages per day.

Pretty much - this thread is almost impossible to keep up with unless you're doing it constantly, most of the day.

That's why it's best to check the first post for all the relevant info/pics/etc. - most of the time that is the best place to start.

If it isn't there, go for it - even if it has already been posted, no big deal!

OgreChubbs wrote:
So when is the Canadian website going to update? Is this cause it saturday so no update for us til monday?

1pm ET

Hello all,

Our FLGS got an advance copy of the Age of Sigmar and our store owner has been running folks through the demo. I have to admit it is fun.

I can already see how the various groups can work together and make a decent game.

To build an army we are just going to set wound limits - for example we are playing a 50 wound game. Seems to work pretty well so far.

Looking forward to seeing the sword and halberd sigmarines

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
..Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...

Plus Mantic are almost guaranteed to have another fantasy-based KS soon and/or you can get in on their Christmas sales and/or you can fiind around 30% off at most online discounters. All of those are excellent ways for picking stuff up way cheaper than paying full MSRP at a game store.

Link below shows crazy deals they give during KS. Blows away any pricing cuts just about any game store can give its customers.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition/description

 Accolade wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.

"Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC

Well, I guess AOS will be the ultimate test of whether GW's impression of their customers as people whose hobby is "collecting Citadel miniatures" will prove correct!

Well, Fantasy isn't my game. I'd hate for FFG, Wyrd or PP to suddenly take their game, destroy the fluff and turn it into Chutes and Ladders with play time.

Ninthplain wrote:
Hello all,

Our FLGS got an advance copy of the Age of Sigmar and our store owner has been running folks through the demo. I have to admit it is fun.

I can already see how the various groups can work together and make a decent game.

To build an army we are just going to set wound limits - for example we are playing a 50 wound game. Seems to work pretty well so far.

Why not use the min. model count for a unit as the limit?
Frex, Orc arrer boyz units start at min of 3 models. All units I've seen thus far have a number (or state it's a single model for heroes, etc.).