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 MrDwhitey wrote:
Plus that's a pretty pathetic appeal to emotion.

What if the next day he saved a family of 4.5 from a house fire. Now they're dead because that cop shot him. Equally as absurd given the histories.

My favorite part of this thread is you trying to rebut bootlicker logic with actual arguments.

 Ouze wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Plus that's a pretty pathetic appeal to emotion.

What if the next day he saved a family of 4.5 from a house fire. Now they're dead because that cop shot him. Equally as absurd given the histories.

My favorite part of this thread is you trying to rebut bootlicker logic with actual arguments.

Everybody will be a hero if this thread makes me quit the internet and causes me to have more spare time to get healthy resulting in me living an extra 6.7 years before dying.

 Jihadin wrote:
From experience when the blood is up and what not. A weapon going off beside my head not going register till after the fact. Its like firing a cannon off. Its not really loud when your on the piece but its damn loud when your in front of the piece and less loud when your not near the muzzle. Also if ones use to range firing the discharge is not going to register to you being your use to the round going "down range". You will though turn a quick head when a discharge sounds "off" then what your use to.

As a brief tangent, I have no idea how soldiers don't go deaf.

The other day I went to the range right after work (outdoors) and was there alone. This has never happened before. I go set up for a shoot with short barreled AR (7.5"). I fire a shot and realize I had forgotten to put my headset on. See, usually, the range sounds like a live-action re-enactment of Vietnam from the parking lot so tons of time to put on your cans.

I lost some hearing on that one, I think, I couldn't hear anything for about 20 seconds. And that was one shot! Granted, it's a short barrel but still, I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're in an extended shoot, or on auto.

 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
From experience when the blood is up and what not. A weapon going off beside my head not going register till after the fact. Its like firing a cannon off. Its not really loud when your on the piece but its damn loud when your in front of the piece and less loud when your not near the muzzle. Also if ones use to range firing the discharge is not going to register to you being your use to the round going "down range". You will though turn a quick head when a discharge sounds "off" then what your use to.

As a brief tangent, I have no idea how soldiers don't go deaf.

The other day I went to the range right after work (outdoors) and was there alone. This has never happened before. I go set up for a shoot with short barreled AR (7.5"). I fire a shot and realize I had forgotten to put my headset on. See, usually, the range sounds like a live-action re-enactment of Vietnam from the parking lot so tons of time to put on your cans.

I lost some hearing on that one, I think, I couldn't hear anything for about 20 seconds. And that was one shot! Granted, it's a short barrel but still, I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're in an extended shoot, or on auto.

I think the simple answer to that is that they probably do, unless they use some form of earplugs which will dampen the higher decibel levels or main frequencies of the shots without affecting their overall sensitivity to less damaging noises (some musicians use something similar to avoid damage from playing live).

Did a quick google search and it seems they do issue these kinds of plugs: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277889

The Oklahoma story just keeps on getting worse:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/sources-supervisors-told-to-falsify-reserve-deputy-s-training-records/article_a6330f10-a9fb-51e3-ab5e-4d97b03c6c04.html?TNNoMobile

From your link d

“There aren’t any secrets in law enforcement. Zero."

Glorious

 d-usa wrote:
The Oklahoma story just keeps on getting worse:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/sources-supervisors-told-to-falsify-reserve-deputy-s-training-records/article_a6330f10-a9fb-51e3-ab5e-4d97b03c6c04.html?TNNoMobile

So many problems with this, so many conflicts of interest.

And the dude was 73.....

I can't stop shaking my head.

So wait... the real cops had the suspect contained and were cuffing him, and the fake cop* thought that would be a good time to tazer the suspect?

Ignoring the fact that Fake Deputy Grampaw drew the wrong weapon, isn't that how a police brutality case gets started?

*Not that I consider reserve cops "fake", but it's clear this guy was only in the reserves because he bought his place there with favors and gifts to the Sherrif. That, to me, is a fake cop.

I'm still trying to figure out how you mix up these:



Oh, that's right.

YOU'RE SEVENTY fething THREE WITH NO TRAINING.

Just to play devil's advocate, they probably feel fairly similar on your belt. Not that that excuses anything.

Maybe tasers could stand to have a redesigned handle that feels nothing like a gun.

 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
From experience when the blood is up and what not. A weapon going off beside my head not going register till after the fact. Its like firing a cannon off. Its not really loud when your on the piece but its damn loud when your in front of the piece and less loud when your not near the muzzle. Also if ones use to range firing the discharge is not going to register to you being your use to the round going "down range". You will though turn a quick head when a discharge sounds "off" then what your use to.

As a brief tangent, I have no idea how soldiers don't go deaf.

The other day I went to the range right after work (outdoors) and was there alone. This has never happened before. I go set up for a shoot with short barreled AR (7.5"). I fire a shot and realize I had forgotten to put my headset on. See, usually, the range sounds like a live-action re-enactment of Vietnam from the parking lot so tons of time to put on your cans.

I lost some hearing on that one, I think, I couldn't hear anything for about 20 seconds. And that was one shot! Granted, it's a short barrel but still, I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're in an extended shoot, or on auto.

At times does your ears start to "ring"?

One of the guys I work with (he's retiring in the next year) was in the Navy and worked on the deck of an Aircraft Carrier in the 1970s (before hearing protection).

He's deaf as a stump.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate, they probably feel fairly similar on your belt. Not that that excuses anything.

Maybe tasers could stand to have a redesigned handle that feels nothing like a gun.

Isn't that a big part of the reason why you usually (at least around here) see officers wearing it on the opposite hip than their gun?



Having it on a different side and utilizing a completely different movement to draw it (and hopefully developing a different muscle memory) would seem like it would help minimize that problem. Although I do wonder if having the Taser face forward would make it easier to grab. Is a Taser secured in the holster like a gun would be?

Can see a holster strap over the top of the tazer securing it in place.

Forgive me for not reading all 10 pages, but I just watched the video. One of the most horrifying things I've seen this year.

The videographer has to be some kind of hero. If a cop is wiling to shoot a man down in the back, move (possibly plant) evidence, and then handcuff rather than try to save a shot man, who know's what he'd do to someone videotaping his offense. Respect to you sir/madam.

Current law is pretty unequivocal that a fleeing suspect that is unarmed is not to be shot in the back. In most places you can tazer them, run them down tackle them and put your knee in their back, you can even sic a dog on them if you're a K9 officer. What you can't do is shoot them dead. There is simply no excuse for this kind of act.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:


Isn't that a big part of the reason why you usually (at least around here) see officers wearing it on the opposite hip than their gun?

Spoiler:

Having it on a different side and utilizing a completely different movement to draw it (and hopefully developing a different muscle memory) would seem like it would help minimize that problem. Although I do wonder if having the Taser face forward would make it easier to grab. Is a Taser secured in the holster like a gun would be?

That arrangement is what I think I've seen as well. I think the Taser in the picture is facing forward (The sticker is the bottom of the grip, yes?) allowing for a right handed officer to cross draw.

I own a taser, and it's much, much lighter than either of my pistols. It would be very difficult to confuse the two.

On the other hand, I'm not 73.

Tazer is located opposite of your dominant hand. MP's standards which follow Federal Standards which some State LEO follows which even fewer local/county LEO follow.

Its to prevent the Frak Up that Chucklehead did by shooting instead of tazing the victim. The other thing is that the arrangement is enforced in said departments. I can see both sides of the fence being able to draw it faster if on dominant hand side to not being on the dominant hand side. The big thing is Chucklehead was 73 with no training being in a active Sting Operation.

Well, being under stress,

People crash their cars all the time "because they thought they were hitting the brake" when they hit the gas, those pedals look different, you only have two options really, and yet it happens all the time in those quickly made, under stress decisions on the road.


No one argues the guy made a mistake, sure maybe some people would not make the same mistake but many people would also make the same mistake.

The media (predictably) seems to want everyone to assume it was intentional and racially motivated to boot which is a stretch.

Actually, the racial aspect is pretty much the only aspect of the story that really hasn't been mentioned much in the news here.

They are all focusing on the whole "72 year old personal friend of the sheriff and former campaign manager who donates money to the sheriff and the department was allowed to play cop and kills someone due to stupidity and now it looks like his paperwork was forged by someone higher up in the department" problem.

Yeah, id be interested to see charges up the pipe on people who let him play cop.


Not everyone can be steven segal after all.

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how you mix up these:



Oh, that's right.

YOU'RE SEVENTY fething THREE WITH NO TRAINING.

I could possibly understand perhaps *drawing* the wrong weapon, maybe reaching out of instinct or something.

But once that's in your hand you should know exactly what's there long before you aim, much less pull the trigger.

So many things had to go wrong there. Either he's too old to trust him to drive by himself much less handle a firearm, or he's straight up lying. Even disregarding normal human intelligence, there's just too much tactile information your hands would be feeding you to mistake those two weapons without being something being *extremely* wrong.

I'm concerned about the media portrayal of this situation because while this guy obviously messed up and probably had no business being out there to begin with, and the whole situation of him being a reserve deputy seems very sketchy.

But even before that bit about him donating a ton of money to the department came out, the media was already gaking on his status as a part-time reserve deputy (a status that he pretty clearly didn't deserve), but I feel like they are generally casting part-time reserve and volunteer officers in a bad light. Which is unfortunate because unlike him, most of them are trained and do a fine job, while also donating their time, energy, and personal safety to their communities for little or no pay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how you mix up these:



Oh, that's right.

YOU'RE SEVENTY fething THREE WITH NO TRAINING.

I could possibly understand perhaps *drawing* the wrong weapon, maybe reaching out of instinct or something.

But once that's in your hand you should know exactly what's there long before you aim, much less pull the trigger.

So many things had to go wrong there. Either he's too old to trust him to drive by himself much less handle a firearm, or he's straight up lying. Even disregarding normal human intelligence, there's just too much tactile information your hands would be feeding you to mistake those two weapons without being something being *extremely* wrong.

Judging from his reaction after the shooting in the video, I don't think he was lying. I think he was unbelievably incompetent.

 Hordini wrote:


Judging from his reaction after the shooting in the video, I don't think he was lying. I think he was unbelievably incompetent.

Same. Though I am starting to wonder if the 'oops, wrong device' is just the excuse he came up with, when he actually meant to have his gun out, but not shoot. That, to most observers, would sound a lot worse than "I thought it was my taser".

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 Hordini wrote:


Judging from his reaction after the shooting in the video, I don't think he was lying. I think he was unbelievably incompetent.

Same. Though I am starting to wonder if the 'oops, wrong device' is just the excuse he came up with, when he actually meant to have his gun out, but not shoot. That, to most observers, would sound a lot worse than "I thought it was my taser".

Didn't he announce he was going to taze the guy before he fired?

 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
From experience when the blood is up and what not. A weapon going off beside my head not going register till after the fact. Its like firing a cannon off. Its not really loud when your on the piece but its damn loud when your in front of the piece and less loud when your not near the muzzle. Also if ones use to range firing the discharge is not going to register to you being your use to the round going "down range". You will though turn a quick head when a discharge sounds "off" then what your use to.

As a brief tangent, I have no idea how soldiers don't go deaf.

The other day I went to the range right after work (outdoors) and was there alone. This has never happened before. I go set up for a shoot with short barreled AR (7.5"). I fire a shot and realize I had forgotten to put my headset on. See, usually, the range sounds like a live-action re-enactment of Vietnam from the parking lot so tons of time to put on your cans.

I lost some hearing on that one, I think, I couldn't hear anything for about 20 seconds. And that was one shot! Granted, it's a short barrel but still, I can only imagine how much worse it is when you're in an extended shoot, or on auto.

I do have tinnitus myself... As I understand it, Artillery guys, it's SOP to be deaf when they are done.

 AduroT wrote:


Didn't he announce he was going to taze the guy before he fired?

Yeah, he actually did. You can hear him say it, i think, twice.

Which leads us back to the utter incompetence line, or a far more disturbing, "planned it all out and yelled taser even though I knew it wasn't because I wanted to shoot someone."

 AduroT wrote:

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 Hordini wrote:


Judging from his reaction after the shooting in the video, I don't think he was lying. I think he was unbelievably incompetent.

Same. Though I am starting to wonder if the 'oops, wrong device' is just the excuse he came up with, when he actually meant to have his gun out, but not shoot. That, to most observers, would sound a lot worse than "I thought it was my taser".

Didn't he announce he was going to taze the guy before he fired?

You may be conflating incidents. The old guy definitely did not say 'Taser' in the video, so far as I could tell. The officer in South Carolina did say Taser.

I see alot of mention here in regards to both incidents of statments like 'he thought it was", "he mistakenly grabbed", etc.

Such sentiments seem to miss the fact that while we give a certain amount of understanding to officers based on the difficulty of the job and the dangers involved, that is not an excuse for poor judgement or behavior. Society holds -and rightfully so- those bearing lethal force on US soil and under the banner of the state, to a HIGHER standard of conduct not a lower one.

That an officer may have spray, taser and firearm does not mean he get's more leway to mistakenly shoot someone, it means he gets LESS because he had the non/less lethal option and used the lethal option.

@Hordini: the local media haven't really been hard on reserve deputies in general. They note that reserve perform an important job, but note that the job usually isn't to participate in high risk undercover sting operations.

I don't care what he "thought" he was reaching for. If you are entrusted to be a police officer and carry, its on you. I guarantee if I'm ccing and I think I pull pepper spray on someone but end up perforating them, the police, DA, jury, and judge aint gonna give jack gak about what i thought.