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Thats just heresy.

 Jancoran wrote:
Thats just heresy.

Telling an Ork that something is Heresy is like telling a bank robber that he shouldn't jaywalk.

But yes, point taken. Save your rotten fruit and dirty looks, I'll get off the stage. I was just curious. Back to da workshop...

 Cleatus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Thats just heresy.

Telling an Ork that something is Heresy is like telling a bank robber that he shouldn't jaywalk.

But yes, point taken. Save your rotten fruit and dirty looks, I'll get off the stage. I was just curious. Back to da workshop...

I run daemons with my orks and love it. I've done a lot of converting on the daemons so that they're all ork models but still use rules for daemons. Just a thought. I really love orky stuff but I also like tournaments so that's what I do. 2+ FnP green tide is hilariously awesome.

A new local player is planning on running the Necron Decurion detachment. They're Ld 10 and across the board and have 4+ RP. This should be interesting. Reading back through this thread, it sounds like the best ideas for dealing with Necrons are to field Lootas, KMK's, Lobbas, MANz, SAG Meks, Deffkoptas, Tankbustas and Warbikers. On paper, regular Boyz fall short of the Necron Warriors, but they would stand a decent chance on the charge. I don't have a Stompa or flyers, but I do have access to all the above units. I might be better off taking 2 min units of Gretchin and spending the rest of my points on Heavy, Elite and Fast slots.

My experience with Necrons is that Mega Nobz and the Mega Armored Warboss are worth their weight in gold. Necrons have a deceptively large number of units with Toughness 5, such as Wraiths and Lychguard. You NEED that Strength 10 Power Klaw to bring those bastards down. Always include a Painboy with your Warboss so you can get that FNP save as well.

Lootas are great at taking out Tomb Blades, which should be eliminated very quickly, since they Ignore Cover and will wipe out your Lootas or any other troops out in the open as soon as they get a chance. Unless you have a Kustom Force Field, you'll simply get no save at all.

Kustom Mega Blastas are great, but struggle with range. They're still cheap enough to include though. Also consider Tracktor Kannons to take out their fliers.

Amusingly I also found that Blitza Bommas work pretty well against Necrons.

Tankbustas are also great, especially if the Necron player brings vehicles, but in my experience it's the Infantry that will really cause you issues.

Normal Ork shooting against Necrons is like firing ping pong balls at a brick wall. They're just going to save vs. EVERYTHING. Stay away from their assaulty units like Lychguard and Flayed Ones, and shoot them down. The only exception is Wraiths should be assaulted by MegaNobz, preferably with a Warboss and Painboy in tow. When it comes to Immortals and Warriors, shoot and assault. Avoid expensive transports like Battlewagons, but use cheap Trucks for your MegaNobz.

Played against Necrons last night. My basic strategy was to keep my distance and pour on the Dakka before assaulting his remaining forces. Yep, MANz and KMK's are worth their weight in teef. I stuck a MAWB with the KMK's to walk them forward for some turn 2 shooting. TL Rokkit Deffkoptas pulled their weight, no real surprise there, and I put some extra pressure on with Rokkits from the Boyz units and Trukks. I tried a SAG Mek on a bike, but I had some poor roles the first 3 turns. Bummer. Lootas and Lobbas did pretty well, although my Lobba shots were scattering like crazy. He DS'd some Deathmarks into my DZ which was annoying, but I finished them off the next turn. I think on the whole I'd rather take more KMK's and Deffkoptas over the SAG. They're just more reliable.

I played in a team game today, 1000 points for each person in a 2 v 2. I haven't played maelstrom in a while, but it was crazy. My Speed Freeks were raking in the points. At the end I had 13 points, and the next closest was like 7 or 8. Does anyone else feel that Orks do better in maelstrom of war scenarios? I feel like builds that favor cheap, fast, expendable units do really well in that type of game, and Orks have access to a lot of that stuff.

Anyone ever try small, but "Elite" Ork style lists?

I ran an 1850 list that was a CAD, Blitz Brigade and Bully boyz. I was against Tau Maelstrom mission type. He had standard firing lines, some kroot shields and a deep striking ap 1/2 spam commander squad with shield drones.

I ended up actually winning (To the amazement of all) due to
1. Catching my opponent entirely by surprise. Who expects a smaller ork army?
2. Tons of killkannon pie plate spam. Throwing down five of those a turn is pretty dang brutal. Even when they hit your own things its not all that bad considering your get your 2+ armors and if it hits another wagon its a 5 to glance.

3. The bullyboyz just destroyed everything they touched. Now this was Tau I was fighting so I expected nothing in CqC, but even say against the sturdy Space Marines it wouldnt look good for them. The Fear can help + the WS 5 is also nice.

So essentially it was an Orky Deathwing. Its like my Orks saw some Dark Angels fight once and said "We kan do dat to!".

So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.

I wouldn't call it small but I want to try out my 90 kommando list.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Anyone ever try small, but "Elite" Ork style lists?

So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.

Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850).

MOGROK FORMATION

- Warboss + Mega armor + Lucky stikk + bosspole
- Big Mek (Mogrok) + mega armor + thinking capp + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade

THRAKA DETACHMENT
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha + Big Kustom Force Field (4+ inv)
- Warboss + bike + power claw + combi skorcha + Big bosspole (fearless)
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 5 commando's

ORK HORDE DETACHMENT
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Painboy + bike + 3 grot orderly
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 15 loota's

- Defence line

CAD
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd

CAD
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd

- All characters join the loota's.
- Weirdboyz go full Daemonology sanctic powers
- Mega armor warboss on the front with a reroll 2+/3+ (sanctuary)
- weirdboyz can teleport closer and give the unit hammerhand + force.
- Bikes can also detach at any time
-loota's can shoot after teleport (slow and purposeful)

Its one big deathstar that could even take on the thunderwolfstar.

shogun wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Anyone ever try small, but "Elite" Ork style lists?

So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.

Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850).

MOGROK FORMATION

- Warboss + Mega armor + Lucky stikk + bosspole
- Big Mek (Mogrok) + mega armor + thinking capp + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade

THRAKA DETACHMENT
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha + Big Kustom Force Field (4+ inv)
- Warboss + bike + power claw + combi skorcha + Big bosspole (fearless)
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 5 commando's

ORK HORDE DETACHMENT
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Painboy + bike + 3 grot orderly
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 15 loota's

- Defence line

CAD
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd

CAD
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 10 grots + runtherd

- All characters join the loota's.
- Weirdboyz go full Daemonology sanctic powers
- Mega armor warboss on the front with a reroll 2+/3+ (sanctuary)
- weirdboyz can teleport closer and give the unit hammerhand + force.
- Bikes can also detach at any time
-loota's can shoot after teleport (slow and purposeful)

Its one big deathstar that could even take on the thunderwolfstar.

If I were you I'd swap some wierdboys for zhadsnark to turn those grots into bikes. I think you'll bet a lot more use out of having a bunch of 3 man bike squads running around. Much better at grabbing objectives. Also remember that any double perils on sanctic so you're going to be losing orks left and right. Also blessing don't stack so best invul save you'll get is 6. It seems an expensive way to get a 6+.

^ Mogrok has to be the Warlord so Zhadsnark is a no go.

Haven't tried MSU Orks myself, aside bikes with Zhadsnark Warlord. But in that game I had a max biker unit so yeah.

 vercingatorix wrote:

shogun wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Anyone ever try small, but "Elite" Ork style lists?

So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.

Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850)........

If I were you I'd swap some wierdboys for zhadsnark to turn those grots into bikes. I think you'll bet a lot more use out of having a bunch of 3 man bike squads running around. Much better at grabbing objectives. Also remember that any double perils on sanctic so you're going to be losing orks left and right. Also blessing don't stack so best invul save you'll get is 6. It seems an expensive way to get a 6+.

I need those 7+ weirdboy to make "sure" I got 'gate' + 'sanctuary' and then I could also afford to lose one or two weirdboyz. I also got a painboy with 3 grot orderly so i could use 'feel no pain' against the perils with a reroll..
Mogrok also gives d3 units outflank/acute senses and gets another warlord trait roll on strategic (infiltrate maybe?). You also seem to forget that i got a mega Kustom force field, so thats a 4+ inv against shooting + sanctuary gives me a 3+ inv save.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I played in a team game today, 1000 points for each person in a 2 v 2. I haven't played maelstrom in a while, but it was crazy. My Speed Freeks were raking in the points. At the end I had 13 points, and the next closest was like 7 or 8. Does anyone else feel that Orks do better in maelstrom of war scenarios? I feel like builds that favor cheap, fast, expendable units do really well in that type of game, and Orks have access to a lot of that stuff.

What was your build?

How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?

killerdou wrote:
How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?

I have been thinking about that, but I decided to go with the 15 loota's for the following reasons:

Artillery cannot assault, so I have to detach all the bikes and/or other characters if i want to do that. When I deep strike/teleport this big bubble, I want to protect this big unit and that means placing models in a certain way; KFF in the middel, mega armor warboss at the front etc.. With Loota's its possible to keep the unit together and even assault multiple units, because the bikes can slingshot the unit to a particular direction.

Also artillery doesn't have the 'er we go' rule so the don't count for the weirdboyz extra warp charge and when my 'fearless' warboss dies or moves away its not possible to use the mob rule.

I have also been thinking about shock attack guns, but its a lot of points for 'overkilling' a unit. Also 15 loota's are better at taking down flyers.

Dont underestimate the shooting output of the weirdboyz.. its possible to teleport and then use cleansing flame and/or vortex blasts and even teleport back after that. If my first 3/4 weirdboyz got the sanctic powers I want then I could also give the others the ork powers which comes with a primaris blast power and a lot of other shooting..

shogun wrote:

killerdou wrote:
How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?

I have been thinking about that, but I decided to go with the 15 loota's for the following reasons:

Artillery cannot assault, so I have to detach all the bikes and/or other characters if i want to do that. When I deep strike/teleport this big bubble, I want to protect this big unit and that means placing models in a certain way; KFF in the middel, mega armor warboss at the front etc.. With Loota's its possible to keep the unit together and even assault multiple units, because the bikes can slingshot the unit to a particular direction.

Also artillery doesn't have the 'er we go' rule so the don't count for the weirdboyz extra warp charge and when my 'fearless' warboss dies or moves away its not possible to use the mob rule.

I have also been thinking about shock attack guns, but its a lot of points for 'overkilling' a unit. Also 15 loota's are better at taking down flyers.

Dont underestimate the shooting output of the weirdboyz.. its possible to teleport and then use cleansing flame and/or vortex blasts and even teleport back after that. If my first 3/4 weirdboyz got the sanctic powers I want then I could also give the others the ork powers which comes with a primaris blast power and a lot of other shooting..

I like it. I highly suggest NOT using a SAG Mek in this build. You have enough randomness already and the SAG usually offers little or harms greatly. Otherwise make sure to tell us how it goes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played and lost 2 games last Thursday night, first against Eldar, second against Necrons. Both happened to be the Malestrom mission where you can steal each other's numbered objective cards.

Both games my Tankbustas on Foot were my favorite unit.

A unit of Ten Eldar jet bikes came in and killed 10 out of 15 Tankbustas. They pass their Ld test. Next turn, 5 out of 5 Tankbustas hit and wound his 3+ save bikes!!! It was awesome. My Opp. didn't Jink as he assumed normal Ork rolling.

Second game, a unit of Wraiths assault my Tankbustas. After previous turns of shooting and overwatch he enters CC with 3 wraiths left, one of which has a wound. After the first round my Tankbustas manage one wound. He puts it on an unwounded wraith. Second round of combat, my non PK Tankbusta nob at I3 deals out 2 unsaved wounds against his 2 wounded Wraiths!! It was unbelievable. His remaining Wraith ends up wiping the mob eventually but the moral is: never count an Ork out until they're dead.

My Orks were woefully out gunned AND outclassed in CC in both games. Also, generic Ork flyer sucks. Going to try the bomber variant in 2 weeks.

I've had moderate success with playing blitz brigade lately. My only gripe is that the only good thing my battlewagonz seem to be doing is getting the boyz to the fight, which can be invaluable but I'd like to give my transports something to make points with. Currently, I'm considering investing points to get a grabby klaw and wrecking ball on all wagonz. Has this combo done work for anyone?

Haven't played in the new edition, yet, but I love Grabbin' Klay and Wrekkin' Ball on my wagons. They're relatively cheap, and they give you some interesting takticcal flexibility you wouldn't think you'd have on a vehicle- plus the Ball can do a little bit off self-defense if someone assaults your Wagon (maybe).

Or, you know, just grab on to an enemy vehicle and start pummeling it.

No end to the fun gubbinz you can play with.

Here's something i thought Ork players might be interested in if you like Ork Psykers:

Orkyness

 Rismonite wrote:
I've had moderate success with playing blitz brigade lately. My only gripe is that the only good thing my battlewagonz seem to be doing is getting the boyz to the fight, which can be invaluable but I'd like to give my transports something to make points with. Currently, I'm considering investing points to get a grabby klaw and wrecking ball on all wagonz. Has this combo done work for anyone?

How about Ramming and Tank Shocking. That is what my transports do after discharging the boyz. A Battlewagon with a Ram, Rams stuff at Strength 9.

I don't like the Recking Ball because it is D3 shots with a 3" range and Ork Ballistic skill. For the same price you could trade it for 2 Rokkits that have a 24" range and a better AP. The Grabbin' Klaw is a bit more appealing, but only situationally. It is great against Maulerfiends, and certain other Walkers. Also good against Imperial Knights or Super Heavy Walkers. It won't do anything in 9 of 10 games, but in that one game it might be big. If I were list tailoring I would sometimes include Grabbin' Klaws, but haven't found them to be useful in a TAC list. Then again, I've never run Blitz brigade. The closest I've gotten is 3 Battle Wagons, 2 Gun Wagons, a Looted Wagon, and 2 Trukks.

I like the idea of a Wrecking Ball and Rokkit on Trukks. Potential of 4 Str 8 attacks, after Tank Shocking a unit.

 PipeAlley wrote:
I like the idea of a Wrecking Ball and Rokkit on Trukks. Potential of 4 Str 8 attacks, after Tank Shocking a unit.

I never liked adding anymore points to a trukk then I had too, but I might consider one of these in the few games I carry a trukk of grots. That feels like an awesome use for fast that I've never used.

tank shock is important. People can actually trap a truck in place with no reinforced rams to allow them to move through units.

Murrdox, most of that is...

Point is, Orks vs Necron:

1. Never let them get more than one save (unless its invulnerable)
That means shoot for ap2 and 3 weapons only.
Yes, technically their warrior cast has amour 4+ but ap3 will cut 90% of armor.
Use KMKs, Tankbustas, Killkannons, Big Bombs, SAGs, Flashgitz, Powerklaws, Rokkits, and the Blitz-Bike.

2. Lower their Reanimation roll as often as possible
That means you need to double their toughness as much as possible. Use s8 or higher weapons.
Use KMKs, Tankbustas, Rokkits, Powerklaws and random told from the SAG but don't count on it.

3. Never let anything but a Deffdread or Gorkanaut touch Flayed Ones.
A unit of Flayed Ones will wreck you. Just strip you naked and take it all from you. Shoot them the moment you see them and dinner stop till they are dead.

4. They have armor 13 vehicles.
We are not great at anti vehicle outside melee combat. So either get into melee with them asap, pray you get lucky with Tankbustas, or ignore them and pray they get bad rolls.

5. @#$% Wraiths.
You can pray they get in charge range of a 30 man squad of boys to tie them up for awhile. Their invuln and toughness means we're pretty SOL. So tie them up and pray they die to luck. A Warboss or Mad Doc can kill them, but you're likely to die before them without boys for cannon fodder.

6. Litchguard are unkillable.
Just face it, they have an Invulnerable 3+, Toughness 5, will likely have a 4+ Reanimation roll, and with the right IC reroll 1s on their saves... So they fail invuln on a 2 then have a 4+ reanimation...
Good news is they are slow as heck. Bad news is they are S7ap2 at initiative 2. So throwing anything at them just buys time. Send boys at them and pray you tie them up. You cannot kill them.

8. Play Maelstrom when you can, or play to the mission. Never play "Purge the Alien" against them. Ever. It won't be fun, I promise you.
They are slow and wont have a ton of units, you can be fast and will have a butt load of units.

So in summation, Lootas are useless, see above to understand why.
Tankbustas are for troop killing.
S8+ is your sweet spot.
Some Necron units cannot be killed.
Play to the mission.

Speaking of Tank Shocks, I once stopped Blitzthundering(?) Baneblade with immobile Trukk which survived and proceeded to mock the massive warmachine rest of the game. (We called it a game in next turn as time started to run out)

I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice for a game I've got coming up against Eldar with some Grey Knight allies. It will be quite a large game and will be the first time I've played against the new Eldar codex (only played them once previously, a couple of years ago) and I'm not sure which units will be most useful to me. Any and all comments are appreciated!

xlDuke wrote:
I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice for a game I've got coming up against Eldar with some Grey Knight allies. It will be quite a large game and will be the first time I've played against the new Eldar codex (only played them once previously, a couple of years ago) and I'm not sure which units will be most useful to me. Any and all comments are appreciated!

Any army with a lot of psykers like Eldar and Grey Knoghts can destroy Orks very easily to due Psykic attacks that target Ld. Usually it's 3D6 against 7 and you take that many wounds. It's rough. They can also force morale checks so you run off the table. They're bikes are fast with good saves and excellent weapons for cheap. The Serpant shield was nerferd but still is quite good. Knowing you're going to play them you could go Max MSU or possibly weird boy psychic defense? I've won and lost against Eldar with my standard Ork list.

Most importantly: be comfortable about challenging your opponents codex rules. Many players will accidentally use older versions of rules or just not remember them. If they don't have their codex with them, don't play against them.

Eldar like jumping around all the place to snatch up objectives. Try to stay in the center of the board so it's easier to catch them. Maybe, and this is a big maybe, take a weirdboy for that deny the witch. There are definitely better HQs, but I'd consider it if they're investing heavily in psykers.

Lastly, Eldar vehicles are scary, but it's nothing a good PK can't tear open. Waaagh-ing into a fire prism or whatever tank they've got is unexpected and, granted you make it, safe since tanks can't overwatch.

Against Eldar and Grey Knights?

Don't
Take a Wierdboy. Forget about psychic powers, and psychic defense. They are throwing too many dice to thwart.
Run Trukks. Eldar and grey Knights both can kill them with ease.
Walk large squads of Naked boyz. Cleansing flame, and scatter lasers can deal with them too effectively.
Shoot at Warp Spiders. They can jump out of charge range, and you will usually do more damage in assault.
Assault Grey Knights unless you are pretty sure you can win.
Take Killa Kans or Deff Dreads. Both armies have the tools to kill them.

Do
Take as many Solo Deff Koptas as you can. They can screw with Eldar Jetbikes by tarpitting them. Rokkits give them a chance to Ignore 3+ armor, and lets them do some damage. 6 is a good number.
Run Battle Wagons and Gun Wagons. Eldar and Grey Knights Have trouble dealing with them. Just watch out for deep striking psycannons.
Consider Mek Guns. KMK's and Lobbas work especially well. Just be wary assaults.
Consider Bikerstar. Zhardsnark + Warbikers + DLS Warboss + Painboy on bike can shoot most Grey Knigths to death, and can Assault most Eldar.
Put a naked Mek in every squad of boyz that you can. Grey Knights have lots of characters that can challenge out and punk a nob, so eat those challenges with a Mek.
Consider a Stompa. It can put a hurting on both of those armies, and mainly has to fear Dread Knights and Wraith Knights.
Consider a Void Shield Generator. It will really reduce Eldar ranged shooting damage.
Consider Gorkanauts. Unless they have a Double D Wraith knight, it can hang with anything on the table except for Dread Knights, and you can guard it from dread knights.
Take a warboss with Da Lucky Stikk. +1 WS, and rerolling to hit will be a gigantic help against grey Knights. Mega Armor can work, but is iffy because you can't run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is a fun list to play against Grey Knights and Eldar.