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2015/12/04 05:31:52
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Geemoney wrote: I like it best at 400pts I am not sure I would bother with the Suppa Rokkits. Just use it like a wraith knight and send it out there.
I wouldn't bother with Suppa Rokkits either, but Definitely a Squad of Gretchin to give the thing OS. 435 at min. Personally the more I think about it, the more I think 485 for Gretchin, plus swapping out the claw.
Geemoney wrote: The Lifta Droppa is probably the best single shot weapons orks can have. Destroying a vehicle 1/3 of the time, no saves allowed is hard to argue with.
It is good for a single shot, but not that good.
Lets compare it to a Deff Kannon. Shoots at a Rhino, and basically can't miss because the blast is so big. It is a primary weapon, so it Pens 97.3% of the time. It is AP 1, so it explodes 33.33% of the time. Shooting at a rhino without cover you are killing it 32.4% of the time. Which is basically the same as the Lifta Droppa. With cover the damage output is reduced, however, it is still chipping in damage at least 1/2 of the time while threatening more than a single Rhino.
In summary the Deff Kannon is worse at killing vehicles than the Lifta Droppa...
orks 10000+ points
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.
2015/12/06 00:31:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Mostly in the gits formation. The consensus was - they're not too terrible in blitz brigade. Although, overpriced and not necessery.
Badrukk on his own is just like 2 times more pricey than he should have been and eats up an HQ slot for no good reason.
Yeah...it feels like the writers felt like they needed to compensate for the void left by removed HQ choices like Wazzdakka and Ol Zogwort and instead of either making new models or different characters for them they just threw in Zagstruk and Badrukk in as HQ choices instead and called it a day. Terrible decision given that both have some of the coolest models but have the crappiest of rules. They could have at least given them Warboss stats.
Thanks!
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
2015/12/06 06:51:08
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Any thoughts on this list? With the ITC ruling, i kinda feel like i have to take the boyz to the LVO now. Im going to playtest it hopefully tomorrow against our best player.
My reasoning on the tide: They are only ONLY a tarpit unit and board control unit. For 100 points, I doubled their ranged damage output. Zardsnark and friens are for PTFO. Stompa is the bullet magnet.
doktor_g wrote: Any thoughts on this list? With the ITC ruling, i kinda feel like i have to take the boyz to the LVO now. Im going to playtest it hopefully tomorrow against our best player.
My reasoning on the tide: They are only ONLY a tarpit unit and board control unit. For 100 points, I doubled their ranged damage output. Zardsnark and friens are for PTFO. Stompa is the bullet magnet.
you get eternal waaagh only when the gt warboss is a warlord. And you get troop bikers pnly when zhad is a warlord.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gt needs power klaws. Shootas are not very useful, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If i get it right, we can attach meks to kommandoes. Meks can take combi-skorchas. So, we could technically do a double-burna, double skorcha Snikrot combo.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/06 20:28:38
2015/12/07 06:13:32
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
The meks with kommandos depends I think. Ok I just looked and I think you are correct. They aren't ICs so his ambush rule would still work. Now I want to try putting kmbs on them for tank/heavy infantry popping.... and to watch them fry...
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2015/12/07 06:14:27
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
@cleatus. The PB joins the GT. Greentide RAW Can't take a PB as its not an option for the formation.
Anyhow I was able to play 3 games:
((Game1)) was tau and white scars. He's a good tactician but inexperienced in 40k. He had 2 storm surges and a gk in some formation. Plus a riptide some markers and stuff in another. I kinda crushed him with stompa tide. It was mainly due to poor deployment on his part.
((Game 2)) was Eldar DarkEldar. I switched the list up a little. Adding a Mek w KFF on a bike plus 2 MANZ missiles in trukks. Ugh. I got curb stomped. A deep striking wraith guard w 5 Ds. Haemonculuos w WWP. LOTS of walkers w lances. He got FB by killing my 2 trukks. Footy MANz now... Damn. Top of t2 rolls around. He had seized. Stompa goes kaboom to the deep striking no scatter D Wraith guard. Explosion Scatters deep into the tide. None of his army had shot yet except the 1 unit of Dguard. My tide was hollowed. Stompa dead. I wasn't even half way across no mans land... GG. I conceded. Top of 2.
((Game3)) was vs Decuricrons. Pretty standard. No deathstars, but 2 fliers and some unusual units but nothing crazy. This was my buddy's wife who's going to the LVO. She wanted "practice." I found a scenerio that she could (hammer and anvil w scouring). I deployed first but let her go first. I helped her with deployment and tactics. I said go after the tide and ignore the stompa. She did. End of T4. Tide was gone. I had 3 units of Grots. And an untouched stompa. I had gotten tied up with some wraiths. My fault because I suggested it to her. Then I forgot to stomp. Damn. Conceded top of T5. I was pretty drunk anyway. But there's little I coulda done.
So.... I hate my orks. 9000 points. 100% painted. Tide and stompa seem to be my only hope. I will try a list like Fxeni took to the LVO last year. He got 9th or 10th place! My hero.
So I dunno if any of this helps my fellow green skins. Ooo. I should als say my buddy in Missouri said I should reserved the stompa in game 2. Avoid those deep strikers then come in guns a blazing. That woulda been smart... But that's not me.
That's it...
@koooaei: but but the damage output of those shootas is sooooo high! I know though. That's gonna be the new list. With VSG. That'll be nearly 100pts. Ok ok ok. You're right.
But PKs are $$$$ and a good player wil kite the tide.
I'd probably go with more pk nobz and tankbustas instead of a kff mek. Cause the stompa allready has d6 void shields that can regenerate, so, not all that easy to kill. Furthermore, you have vsg. So, i think that kff mek is a waste here.
Whereas pk nobz in a tide are vital. Tide's prone to getting stopped by something sturdy. Basically, a Knight comes in and your 900+ points of stuff is stuck with <400 pts of the enemy for quite some time.
2015/12/07 07:42:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
@kooaei: Powershields dont regen. D6... thats it. The kff on a bike gives the tank busta trukks and the stompa 5++ and is completely out of LOS behind the stompa.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 07:43:42
2015/12/07 08:16:02
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
doktor_g wrote: @kooaei: Powershields dont regen. D6... thats it. The kff on a bike gives the tank busta trukks and the stompa 5++ and is completely out of LOS behind the stompa.
Oh, you're right. Mistook them for void shields. Anywayz, the protection is still pretty good. And you undoubtfully need more power klaws in a tide.
What if you simply go with a cad and squads of boyz? They'll all get fearless when near a stompa. This way you can afford like 3-4 smaller squads with pk nobz that are more versatile, are still fearless and will leave you with free points for mek if you want to. Also, you could make them shootas which is going to be way more effective than a shoota tide.
And you won't waste points on mandatory grots. Although, they're admittedly good investment with fearless.
All in all, smaller squads have both advantages and drawbacks. Advantages are much more versatility, obsec and overall cheapness. Disadvantages are no eternal WAAAGH! (or no WAAAGH! at all if you go without a warboss) and less protection cause you can't provide mass fnp anymore.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/07 08:21:14
2015/12/07 09:35:09
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
so heres an idea i have for what i think is a competive list focused around the theme of madmax (alot of trukks,wagons, buggies but no bikes). the stompa itself will be designed to even be a sort of battlewagon stompa hybrid...ill make it work somehow.
the squad of 9 tankbustas will be in a gunwagon with the warboss (he will provide waaaghs and 2 strtegic warlord traits), the other gunwagons will have the flashgitz (all the gunwagons will park midfield for maximin dakka potential). the warbuggies will be for good measure on quick object and otherwise harasment units. the trukk tankbustas will do what they do best by hitting anything with an engine in it. the stompa with bigmek will have a grot squad in it (for obsec) while the other grot squad will use the spare trukk just to keep up with the stompa and act as a charge shield when needed.
this lists mileage will vary depending on what i face but my hope is it does well with objectives and anti tank.
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/07 09:51:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
geargutz wrote: so heres an idea i have for what i think is a competive list focused around the theme of madmax (alot of trukks,wagons, buggies but no bikes). the stompa itself will be designed to even be a sort of battlewagon stompa hybrid...ill make it work somehow.
I like your general approach. I have a few suggestions in additions to Koooaei's Note:
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
If they come from a CAD and Ride in the Stompa, suddenly the Stompa is OS. Think about that for a second. I imagine you are playing in ITC. The world can change when you get a super scoring deathstar.
This is a really good unit. I like to stick 2 Bomb Squigs in for situations. On the Other Hand the Stompa is delivering a Ton of Anti-vehicle firepower, so you might not need the bomb squigs.
This unit sticks out as something that doesn't fit in the rest of the list. You said you were sticking them in a Gunwagon, but taking a Trukk with them. Is that For Gretchin? If you drop a few of these, you would have room for a KFF, which probably makes sense for you, or the ability to bring something that is anti-infantry.
I prefer Deff Koptas because they are much more versatile, but this is fine. There isn't really a reason to run 5 of them in a squadron. 5 Squadrons of 1 are usually going to be better than 1 Squadron of 5.
I would put Rams on these. If you manipulate your FOC you can get them out of the squadron.
geargutz wrote: Buzzgob (100) bigmekstompa (300) arm replacement defkanon (50)
The Stompa can hold 20 models (in multiple units) and has 10 fire points. That part of it aren't being used to their fullest.
You've got an absurd amount of anti-tank. Possibly too much, because it makes you more reliant on your stompa for Anti-Infantry. If your meta is nothing but battle Company, this list will make mincemeat of them, but if your meta has certain other lists, you might be in trouble. Let me offer this mildly tweaked version that uses generally the same models:
Spoiler:
Cad #1: Big Mek (Rokkit, da thinkin kap)
5 Tankbustas (1 BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (1 BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (2 BS) in a Trukk (Ram)
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 22:20:08
2015/12/07 18:38:44
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
@tag8833: where do you get Stompas have 10 firepoints? I thought they only had 5.
@kooaei: MSU gathered around the stompa defeats the purpose of MSU. I mean if they have to stay all clumped up, why not 1 big unit. Side question: is there a way I can give the tide move through cover?
@thread: IN MY OPINION, trukks could quite possibly be the worst idea for orks. THE WORST.
-In my experience, they only shine when my opponent isn't very good.
-first a trukk will either explode or get wrecked generally if any thing attacks it especially at the effective range of tank bustas. --If it explodes, half the boys are dead from the explosion. Then another pinning test forces further losses. Oops your tiny squad has lost more than 25% in a shooting phase. More dead. Maybe I'm "doing it wrong"
2015/12/07 19:13:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
doktor_g wrote: @tag8833: where do you get Stompas have 10 firepoints? I thought they only had 5.
Normal Stompa is 5. The Big Mek Stompa is 10.
doktor_g wrote: @thread: IN MY OPINION, trukks could quite possibly be the worst idea for orks. THE WORST.
-In my experience, they only shine when my opponent isn't very good.
-first a trukk will either explode or get wrecked generally if any thing attacks it especially at the effective range of tank bustas. --If it explodes, half the boys are dead from the explosion. Then another pinning test forces further losses. Oops your tiny squad has lost more than 25% in a shooting phase. More dead. Maybe I'm "doing it wrong"
That's why you limit what you put in trukks, and you get those things out of Trukks as soon as reasonable. Never put something in a Trukk that you care about. MANZ missile is an ideal usage of Trukks. The Trukk needs to live for just 1 turn. I've also come to love 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk. It is so cheap, and yet so threatening. Sure, any opponent can kill a trukk, but if you have enough trukks it doesn't matter, and if the unit inside is disposable enough then the opponent has trouble with target priority and, and often won't allocate enough firepower to a given trukk to actually kill it.
2015/12/07 22:23:00
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
@tag:
1. Where is that rule about BM stompa (thanks for pointing it out)
2. Tell me what you do in the movement phase turn 1 if you go first with TB trukk, then the shooting and assault phases?
Actually your answer to Q2 doesnt matter. If you ant to get them out, you can only move 6". Disembark another 6". That means in most games youre at midfield. Then they are standing there in Tshirts, only having to take 2 wounds until mobrule sets in. Just... yuck. They are cheap though!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/07 22:38:23
2015/12/07 22:33:28
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Anyone tried any of the kill tanks? Managed to fit on full of meks in my 3k apoc list and was wondering if they are worthwhile investments before I commit to buying/converting
YMDC = nightmare
2015/12/08 02:10:25
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Frozocrone wrote: Anyone tried any of the kill tanks? Managed to fit on full of meks in my 3k apoc list and was wondering if they are worthwhile investments before I commit to buying/converting
Currently of the three the Kill Burstas are the most versatile. Between the belly gun and the bursta gun you either get a huge AoE anti-heavy infantry gun or our only strength D blast weapon that doesn't come from rolling double 6's from a SAG. Both give us guns that address issues at range which our codex lacks, so regardless of most Ork lists they fit in pretty damn well since they almost always have a good target.
Kill Blastas are fairly meh, since we don't exactly need more S6 shooting in our army given that we have lootas but it does provide a stable and sturdy firing platform at a reasonable (if random) rate of fire. It does have access to grot gunners to get up to BS3 to make the shots more reliable but generally speaking its underwhelming.
Then there's the cheaper Kill Krusha. It's in a weird spot since it really doesn't feel like a super-heavy, just an up-gunned and armoured looted wagon. It has a range of profiles for its main gun but you'll only ever be using the battlecannon profile or the ignores cover/template ones. I'd rank it higher than the Kill Blasta since it has more utility and its cheaper but for the most part its average at best.
Also keep in mind they all do have a secondary role as assault transports so they're like killier shootier battlewagons in many senses.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 03:29:17
2015/12/08 03:44:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
doktor_g wrote: @tag:
1. Where is that rule about BM stompa (thanks for pointing it out)
Its in the 6th edition GW: Apoc book. Not IA: Apoc. It is back from the bad old days where GW and Forgeworld were naming dozens of books "Apocalypse", and it was nearly impossible to keep them all straight. If you google it, you will find the rules pretty easy.
doktor_g wrote: 2. Tell me what you do in the movement phase turn 1 if you go first with TB trukk, then the shooting and assault phases?
You misunderstood me. Unless there is a vehicle to assault, or an objective that needs clearing, 5 tankbustas stay inside their trukk until it blows. I'm just saying that when it blows and 1/2 of them die, it isn't that big of a loss.
MANZ usually stay in their trukk until it blows as well, but not always. As soon as they can assault they hop out, but the MANZ trukk almost always dies on turn 1.
I took it from your post that you were trying to run Trukks full of boyz. This is how that generally goes. Turn 1, trukk moves 12" then Flat Outs 12". Turn 2, any trukks that didn't blow up disembark their passengers, and the boyz get into assault. So you are exposed to opponent shooting for 1 or 2 turns at most.
If you are having trouble making Trukks work, it is usually 1 of 3 things.
1) You are putting the wrong thing in Trukks (Burnas, Lootas, Flash Gitz, upgraded boyz, anything expensive that isn't a meganob)
2) You aren't flatting out on turn 1. (Trukks aren't really protection, they are a mobility aid)
3) You don't have enough trukks. They die. The boyz inside die. The key is to build a list that can take those losses. Lots of redundancy.
Another tid bit on Trukks. If you have a Void Shield Generator, it goes a long ways to keeping your trukks safe from Alpha Striking.
2015/12/08 04:45:35
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
@kooaei: MSU gathered around the stompa defeats the purpose of MSU. I mean if they have to stay all clumped up, why not 1 big unit. Side question: is there a way I can give the tide move through cover?
The purpose is that MSU is way more versatile and can be taken in fewer numbers. Tide without enough klaws is very vulnerable to getting tarpitted.
2015/12/08 05:51:32
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
koooaei wrote: Ghaz supplement warboss can't take a cap. Warboss's base cost is 60 pts. What's the point of a big mek?
forgot the cost of warboss. why cant a ghaz detach warboss not take the kap? couldnt a codex orks detachment bigmek take a mega force field? my understanding was that the detachment didnt matter as much as not haveing different relics from books in the same detachment...but if im wrong ill just make a cad (might go for both cad and ghaz detach in the end).
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
i wanted the ghaz detach becasue its 5 elite slots...but i guess i will just go for doublecad. the only probalem with that is that itc doesnt allow 2 of the same formation or detach, so if i do 2 detachments then what would be a better option besides a ghaz detach (codex orks detach requires one aditional troop so the tax is greater) (besides, ive run ghaz detach before, msu dont bother so much with the penalty to mob rule beacsue i just dont care at that point, they run then they run, it was a small cheap unit to begin with).
This unit sticks out as something that doesn't fit in the rest of the list. You said you were sticking them in a Gunwagon, but taking a Trukk with them. Is that For Gretchin? If you drop a few of these, you would have room for a KFF, which probably makes sense for you, or the ability to bring something that is anti-infantry.
the trukk was for grots, the bustas would ride in the gunwag as a more protected unit, so i could spend more on the squad (not a worried about that trasnport popping before a trukk.
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
now that imthinking of doing a double detach i will have the ability to split the gunwagons into seperate units, as well as the warbuggies...would it be better to give them tl bigshootas for anti infantry, or invest in some skorchabugs. while defkoptas are generaly better then warbuggies, i realy want to do a warbuggy type unit to realy sell the madmax theme.
i need a warboss with da thinkin kap. he calls the waaagh, a waaagh will help near end game when units are away from trukks and i need those extra inches.
burna boyz are somthing i havent played with much, and i hear some good comments about them but a lot of negative stuff about them as well.
ive never heard poeple say to use lootas as anti infantry, but now that i think about it they are pretty versitle for damage. ill think about possibly implimenting them in place of some tankbustas (maybe use them in the gunwagon transport with the warboss?.
ill need playtesting, but unfortunately my local community just lost the majority of our dedicated players.
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/08 08:47:22
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 08:48:32
2015/12/08 17:17:08
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
What are your thoughts on the 1500 pt list below: HQ Painboy Warboss in mega armour, lucky stikk Troops Gretchin 3x20 shoota boys nob PKBP FA 3xDeffkopta LOW Mek Boss Buzzgob stompa, deff kannon, deff kannon Fort Void shield generator +2 VS
Decent fearless boys footprint covered by void shields. obsec Stompa covered by VS. Deffkoptas for objective fly around, scouting/outflanking. Warboss unit tanks wounds if needed moving forward
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 17:18:28
2500 4000 4000 5000 5000
DE 2500 TS: 2500 2500
2015/12/08 18:20:27
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Meks are for dying in challenges instead of your more important characters. Fixing stuff is rarely ever useful. But in this case it might even come into play! Challenges first, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 19:17:25
2015/12/08 22:19:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
koooaei wrote: Ghaz supplement warboss can't take a cap. Warboss's base cost is 60 pts. What's the point of a big mek?
forgot the cost of warboss. why cant a ghaz detach warboss not take the kap? couldnt a codex orks detachment bigmek take a mega force field? my understanding was that the detachment didnt matter as much as not haveing different relics from books in the same detachment...but if im wrong ill just make a cad (might go for both cad and ghaz detach in the end).
Its in the rules for the detachment. They have access to the Ghazgul relics instead of the normal Ork Codex ones.
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
i wanted the ghaz detach becasue its 5 elite slots...but i guess i will just go for doublecad. the only probalem with that is that itc doesnt allow 2 of the same formation or detach, so if i do 2 detachments then what would be a better option besides a ghaz detach (codex orks detach requires one aditional troop so the tax is greater) (besides, ive run ghaz detach before, msu dont bother so much with the penalty to mob rule beacsue i just dont care at that point, they run then they run, it was a small cheap unit to begin with).
ITC allows doubling a single detachment. That includes double CAD. While MSU is less effected by the Mob Rule changes, there is no reason to put a completely voluntary nerf on your army.
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
now that imthinking of doing a double detach i will have the ability to split the gunwagons into seperate units, as well as the warbuggies...would it be better to give them tl bigshootas for anti infantry, or invest in some skorchabugs. while defkoptas are generaly better then warbuggies, i realy want to do a warbuggy type unit to realy sell the madmax theme.
Generally Rokkits are the best on warbuggies. Skorchas can be Ok but are more institutional. Big Shootas are fine, but not as versatile as Rokkits.
geargutz wrote: i need a warboss with da thinkin kap. he calls the waaagh, a waaagh will help near end game when units are away from trukks and i need those extra inches.
Eh. The only units that is likely make use of it much are the Tankbustas. Those are also the units most likely to die. Flash Gitz and Burnas can use it, but generally they are a shootier unit, and wouldn't want to. I don't think it is worth it, but up to you.
geargutz wrote: burna boyz are somthing i havent played with much, and i hear some good comments about them but a lot of negative stuff about them as well.
The Reason Burnas aren't good is because Orks Lack survivable transports. A Spompa is a survivable transport. They are the least optimized part of the list. Honestly I haven't done enough playtesting with Burnas in a Stompa to be too adamant about them. I've put them in Gunwagons from time to time, and they've performed OK.
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
For my Flex / speed units like Deff Koptas and warbuggies, I prefer to have the versatility to assault in situations either to eat overwatch or tarpit. It comes up big against Tau. Ever Seen an anchored stormsurge tarpit by a single deffkopta? It also helps vs Eldar,
2015/12/08 22:46:27
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
Koptas get bombs. Love it.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
Koptas get bombs. Love it.
The bigbomms that koptas get really aren't much of a selling point though. They unnecessarily inflate the cost of the unit and being one shot weapons are lacklustre for their stats. A S4 AP5 large blast isn't exactly something an Ork army needs, especially not for a price that's half the cost of the deffkopta itself.
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