Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/12/18 04:43:39
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I don't know how it would benefit my army, though. I'm definitely in the assaulty camp, so the only things I have staying back are my long-range guns, and they'd have to slog through my other units to get to them, first.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/18 04:50:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Well, if anything, I certainly have enough spare parts to make an orky void generator. Could be fun for my first scratchbuild.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/18 10:37:41
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Vitali Advenil wrote: I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?
Neither. It's just a 100 pt av12 3 HP bunker for everyone within 12". That can regenerate each HP on a 5+. Bonus points is that it's immune to haywire, grav and cron weapons. It doesn't get saves like cover or invul, however.
It's actually not too hard to put down 3 av12 hp and proceed to shoot what's inside. But it's a constant annoyance. Pretty good thing, all in all.
But be careful - it also affects your opponent if he gets inside this area. You might want some good counter-assault. Might want to change your list up a bit for VSG. That's probably one of the reasons you don't see it very often. It's not that great for a full-shooty army facing something melee-oriented. And most armies are shooty with some fast tough mellee mini-deathstar now.
Quick note, it's the Void Shields that regenerate.
Technically RAW speaking, it's got infinite Hull Points because it's classed as an 'Impassable Building' and you can't reduce it to 0 HP because it doesn't have HP to begin with.
That said, it's pretty TFG to say that, not to mention the fact that Void Shields are special rules that have an AV value (so do Tankhunters, Gauss, Haywire, etc work)?
It's just about the worst piece of rules writing that GW has ever done, bar none. If you use it, make sure to agree on the rules beforehand.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/12/18 14:26:00
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I have often thought about using a KFF on a bike, but I always like my bikes to zoom ahead and do their own thing, often leaving them out of range of the KFF. So I instead have been taking a painboy on the bike to give the bikes the 5+ FNP, which on a t5 unit is almost like have the invuln save, but you can use it in addition to the jink or armor saves if you get them.
I think the KFF on a bike was for the big mek to jump between units where needed. I can imagine using him like a big, mobile shield not necessarily attached to my bikers.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/18 15:05:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Yeah. That way he could jump to whatever unit needs him most at the time. With a bike, he could easily leap from unit to unit to cover their front. Keeping him with a biker unit seems overkill, as they already have their 4+ cover and armor saves. I'd rather have that guy hopping around between boyz blobs, elite units, etc.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/18 15:25:54
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I see the idea behind it, just not sure I see the value in it. I run my lists primarily as a fast charging force. Keeping back the 100 points to give some units a 5+ save just doesn't seem worth it, especially if it means taking up an HQ slot.
Blitz brigade are well supported with a kff/mff mek with koptas. As for non-vehicle units, it's too expensive and short range to be good. Maybe if you're running some sort of footslogging meganob deathstar. Or ghaz council. Crazy stuff like that
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 15:52:47
2015/12/18 20:49:16
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Who's run a blitz brigade before and how did it go? I find the only real benefit of it is to get 5 battlewagons and still have heavy support slots opened up. Because to scout means I would lose the ability to charge that turn.
scouting make more sense for shooty units though, like battlewagons full of lootas or something
I've looked at the blitz brigade before basically just for the wall of AV 14 in front of your army. Plus the scouting isn't bad if, like you said, you stuff a load of lootas or shootas in them. Heck, I'd probably go with a mix of shootas and tankbustas.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/18 21:19:05
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Icculus wrote: Who's run a blitz brigade before and how did it go? I find the only real benefit of it is to get 5 battlewagons and still have heavy support slots opened up. Because to scout means I would lose the ability to charge that turn.
scouting make more sense for shooty units though, like battlewagons full of lootas or something
I often play my blits brigade + Bullboyz Ork Deffwing. The 5 BW work well for me because I give them all Killkannons and because everything else in the army is melee the ordnance effect is not all that bad. It allows me to throw at 5 s7 ap3 large blasts a turn which has done some major work for me in the past. Its worked well for me in a lot of games. Beyond that I have used BWs to protect large squads of lootas as they fire out of it in relative safety, but usually I avoid using BWs for my melee guys as I prefer to take 3 and a half trucks per battlewagon. "Quantity has a quality all its own." ~ Joseph Stalin
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/18 21:20:58
2015/12/18 21:32:22
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
That's a poopload of vehicles on the table. Three and a half trucks per battlewagons, with five battlewagons on the table totals at about 17 trucks and 5 battlewagons. Then again that's only about 1200-ish points off the top of my head. That actually sounds hella silly- I might just try that.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/19 03:34:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Vitali Advenil wrote: That's a poopload of vehicles on the table. Three and a half trucks per battlewagons, with five battlewagons on the table totals at about 17 trucks and 5 battlewagons. Then again that's only about 1200-ish points off the top of my head. That actually sounds hella silly- I might just try that.
Well I meant it as saying I would rather take 3 trukks for the point cost of 1 battle wagon. I worded that poorly ^_^
2015/12/19 23:45:41
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Gunwagons for days.
Battlewagons if you're going Blitz Brigade or Codex only.
Trukks if you're in need of moar SPEED! (Or you're up against Tau Optimised Stealth Cadre that hits rear armour always)
YMDC = nightmare
2015/12/20 03:22:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Oh, when I run battlewagons I usually stuff 'em full of shootas and go as far as I can before it inevitably gets glanced to death. Tankbustas sound similar in concept, if not higher priority for the enemy to dismantle. The trukks are gonna solely be for my meganob missiles. It's just a shame that tankbustas can't take battlewagons as dedicated transports even though they're in the elite slot.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/20 03:49:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Has anyone noticed lootas are overwhelmingly powerful? I've started taking them in mass (6 squads of 10 usually) to my more competitive games, sometimes with a fortification for support and they just mow everything down.
2015/12/20 03:57:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Yeah, lootas do a lot of work in general. With the amount I have currently, I don't use them for tankhunting, but Jaysus with 60 of them? Yeah, throw that gak at whatever isn't AV 14 and watch it fall. I like a combination of those guys and KMKs.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/20 08:05:16
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
We were playing Maelstrom cards. Each turn you draw up to 8- the turn number, and then discard one. So on turn 1 you got 6 cards, Turn 2, you got 5 cards, so on. 1st Blood, Warlord, Linebreaker, and Last blood. It was battlepoints instead of win/loss
Round #1:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Grey Knights
His list:
Nemisis Strike Force
Librarian
Apothacary (Might be a paladin upgrade)
10 Paladins (3 Hammers, 2 Halberds, some Psycannons) in a Land Raider
Strike Squad in a Rhino
Strike Squad in a Rhino
Dread Knight
Dread Knight
Deployment: Dawn of War
The game:
Grey Knights can be tough, but I have an army more well accustomed to Maelstrom, and Paladins don't matter to Power Claws. I get -1 to his reserves, which is big. He deep strikes his librarian with 1/2 of his paladins including all of his psycannons. I let him go 1st. I deploy my VSG on the left flank, and make sure there isn't enough space for him to shunt a dread knight into range. I reserve the gretchin, 2 Deff Koptas, and 2 Squads of Tankbustas. I give him 1st turn. He moves, unload his palandins from a land raider. He Shunts onto an objective to the right flank where I am not. His Reserves don't come in. I advance my battle Wagons, and 1 Immobilizes itself even with rerolls. The other one disembarks by the paladins. I spread out my Deff Koptas on Objectives. I flat out my MANZ, and Shoot his rhino to death with my Tankbustas earning me 2 points thanks to Glory Hogs. Then I let the strike squad that comes out witness the power of Lobbas. I think I eneded up with like 20 wounds of them. They all died. I get a charge off on the paladins with a squad of boys with the non-lucky stikk warboss. I kill a few, but not all, and lose a decent number of boyz.
He moves his dread Knight up to kill a deff Kopta. His other one hops from one objective to another. I disembark the immobilized Battle Wagon, and move towards the Dread Knight Declaring my WAAAG. On the Right Flank 2 of my Tankbusta squads come in. If I had gotten both squads of Gretchin, I would have tried to Tank Shock the Dread Knight to death. I flat out one of the Trukks to an objective, and the other one tries to pop the 2nd rhino. The only do 2 hull points though. I chard the Dread Knight on the Left, and do 2 wounds. I kill all of the paladins in the ongoing combat except for the apothecary. His other paldins come in. Unfortunatly most of my stuff is locked in the blessed safety of CC. He tries to kill my VSG. He does 1 Hull point to it. His Dread Knight goes after a trukk of Tankbustas, and his strike squad goes after another. The strike Squad kills the trukk, but the Dread Knight fails to (even in assault). The Dice are not being kind to my opponent. I finish the dread Knight, and apothacary. My Nob actually goes a round in a challenge with the dread Knight and got out alive somehow. My Deff Koptas come in and I spread them onto objectives. At this point I control 5/6 objectives and am way up on Maelstrom. My Lobbas let the Paladins that just came in have it. They put 21 wounds on the paladins spending most of the ammo runts. I kill 2 and wound a 3rd. Wowser. I bring in the squad that just mopped up the other paladins and murder some more. My Tankbustas manage to kill the last strike squad down to 1 guy. All he's got left is 1 Dread Knight, and one Strike Marine. The game is called for time at the end of 4.
Resutls: 17-8 Win.
Round #2:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Demons
His list (roughly):
Fateweaver
Herald of tzeentch (3 ML)
Herald of tzeentch (3 ML)
Herald of nurgle (2 ML)
Herald of nurgle (2 ML)
8 Pink Horrors
8 Pink Horrors
7 Plague Drones.
8 Seekers (The things that do something like a vector strike)
8 Seekers
Deployment: Vanguard
The game: Demon Summoning. I've got this in the bag. I give him 1st deployment. I get Move Through Cover and Stealth in Ruins for my WL Trait. I deploy around my VSG. He is a bit cagey about what his army can do. So I don't spread out a ton. I seize the initiative. Bad Maelstrom Draw. I only got 1 I could score (Drawing 7 Cards!) I advance forward. Kill a bunch of Seekers, Kill a plague Drone, and the Lobbas Kill a squad of Pink Horrors. His Jaw drops a bit at this. On His turn, he brings in the remaining Seekers from the squad I shot up, and Kill my Battle Wagon. The explosion kills 9! boyz. He does some summoning. He Fails on the Grimoire, rerolls it, and still fails. I Declare my WAAAGH, and send my un-wagoned squad to assault the Seekers with the attached heralds. I Send my Wagoned squad after the plague drones, I send my MANZ after the seekers that Killed my wagon. My Lobbas Kill a bunch of Horrors. My Tankbustas and Deff Koptas put a bunch of wounds on Fateweaver, but he makes a bunch of invuls, and only fails 1. He fails his grounding but uses his reroll. I assault and kill all of the seekers. Demonic instability takes care of the Heralds. I assault and Kill the other Seekers. I assault the Plague drones and do nothing because I fail a fear test, and they make all of their invuls (4+ because of Cursed Earth). They kill a ton of boyz.
On His turn he summons some more, and tries to put a troop on an objective to steal it from a deffkopta. We get a ruling, and yes they have objective secured for this event. Fateweaver perils putting endurance on the Plague drones, and Takes a wound. His plague drones win combat again, but at least I did 1 wound to them. I send my Meganobs to help out in the combat with the plague drones. 2 Squads of Tankbustas have to go after an objective to kill some OS summoned plague bearers. My other wagon squad goes after the rest of the horrors. I lobba the Bejesus out of his plague bearers. Like 30 wounds, but he only fails 5 or so, because of terrain and shrouding. I put another couple wounds on Fatey. I assault the horrors and kill them. I assault the MANZ into the plague drones. They fail fear, and I end up doing 3 unsaved wounds. He does 5-6 back, so I lose combat, but stick because of Mob rule.
Fateweaver perils and kills himself after putting Endurance on the plague drones, and then dropping some deamonettes in my backfield. Right now we are tied 12-12 because I have last blood from Fatey. We do the close combat, and I do a couple wounds to the drones, but lose combat by 1. Both my MANZ and my warbosses squad fail leadership. Both of them fail Mob rule even with a reroll. I just needed a single 1-3, and I had 4 rolls to get one. He sweeps the MANZ. Bummer. The game gets called for time here. That sucks, because all he had left were a few drones, and some deamonettes. I would have killed 1/2 of the drones, and all of the Deamonettes now that Fatey in done buffing them.
Resutls: 11-13 Loss.
Round #3:
Spoiler:
Despite my loss, I scored well, and am playing at Top table.
Opponent: Imperial Fists (Space Marines)
His list (roughly):
Librarian (ML 2)
Librarian (ML 2)
3 Grav Centurions in a Drop Pod
Sternguard (3 Melta) in a Drop Pod
10 TAC Marines (Melta, MM, Combi-M) in a Drop Pod.
10 TAC Marines (Melta, ML, Combi-M) in a Drop Pod.
10 TAC Marines (Melta, ML, Combi-M) in a Drop Pod.
3 Grav Centurions in a Drop Pod
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
The game: I roll master of ambush and decide to outflank my Tankbustas. He argues I can't because they have transports, and the warlord trait says non-vehicle unit. This is a new argument to me. The Judge came over and sided with him. It wasn't a big deal, so I didn't argue much even though I was pretty certain this was wrong. Also Ruled in my opponents favor Grav can hurt Void Shields. Bummer.
I outflank 2 Koptas, and deploy in a corner so that he can't drop pod into VSG range. He brings in both groups of Cents dropping one deep in his deployment zone to score 2 objectives. The other one in my deployment on the other flank from me. 2 Tac Squads come in and combat squad. His Grav Cents pop my shields. Then on Tac squad kills a battle wagon, and the others kill some gretchin. On My Turn I unload my MANZ and 2 Squads of Tankbustas. I send my other wagon towards the nearest group of Cents. My Lobbas kill a couple of marines. My Tankbustas kill a drop pod. My Kombi-skorcha kills 4 marines. My remaining gretchin kill a marine. I assault one squad with MANZ, One with 3 Deff Koptas and some Gretchin, one with the unwagoned squad, and a drop pod with some tank bustas. All of it dies except for one marine with the Deff Koptas.
All of his reserves arrives. His Sternguard pop my other battlewagon. Him Centurion shoot up the squad that comes out. My other squad takes lots and lots of fire. Lots of damage, but this turn is headed much the same as last turn. I get one deff kopta on, and he scores some objectives, and takes a pot shot at a librarian. My squad near the centurions assaults and kills them. The Manz assault and kill some marines. The other warboss squad assault and kill all but one of the stern guard. who tries to run but I catch him. Blessed safety. My Tankbustas kill a couple more drop pods. The Deff Koptas and Gertchin are still failing to kill the last marine in their combat.
He is making a bee line towards my stuff with his Grav Cents, but can only kill a deff kopta. Some of my TAC marines kill a Trukk. I fail a charge with the MANZ. I kill another 2-3 drop pods. He moves his Centurions and kill another empty trukk. I kill the last of his drop pods in my deployment zone, and bring in my Last Deff Kopta on an objective. The game is called at this point. He has a single squad of Centurions left, and a librarian.
Resutls: 17-13 Win.
Final Standing and thoughts:
Spoiler:
I ended in 2nd losing to my 2nd round opponent who tabled his final opponent. It was 48 points (1st), 47 points (2nd), 46 points (3rd). I got best painted as well. That was my 1st time winning best painted and I was happy about that.
My list played well, but the 2 hour rounds were killers. I never made it past turn 4.
2015/12/20 16:01:09
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Is it usually worth the points to toss big shootas or rokkits onto a battlewagon chassis? It's usually moving so most or all of the weapons would be snap firing.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2015/12/20 17:46:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
tetrisphreak wrote: Is it usually worth the points to toss big shootas or rokkits onto a battlewagon chassis? It's usually moving so most or all of the weapons would be snap firing.
That isn't what it is for. The only reason I put a gun on my Battlewagons is so that a "Weapon Destroyed" result doesn't immobilize it. Nothing is worse than an Immobilized battlewagon. The same reason I put a Ram on my Wagons. In my game vs Demons it was snap shooting at Fateweaver the whole game. Its kinda fun vs FMCs and fliers, because nobody is jinking a single shot off a battlewagon, so if it does happen to hit, it can do damage.
It is only worth it if you have a list that is exactly 3 points under and a model that happens to be modeled with it. If I figured out a better way to spend those 3 points I would have.
I definitely think it is worth it. At this event it killed like 3-4 marines. That isn't super, but it is something. However, there are times it comes up huge. For instance if you are next to a couple of opened top transports. I think it is worth it for the little bit of dynamism it adds to the MANZ.
I've been experimenting with Kombi-skorchas on nobs in squads of boyz. I think that is much less worth it. The issue is that Boyz are much more vulnerable to getting taken out of charge range by overwatch. Also, it is scary to put a normal nob out front. Manz don't have to worry about it, especially since it is one use, and that guy then becomes the most expendable member of the squad.
2015/12/21 00:00:10
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2015/12/21 02:17:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I guess the tips against new tau are the same against old tau.
Not that i had much success yet, but here is what I would do:
> getting a cheap warboss with Kap to ensure Waaagh effect for the walkers and getting a stealth/Move through cover Warlord trait
> KFF and VSG to increase the number of walkers that will reach the tau lines or yhe objectives
Tacticwise :
> do whatever I can to cluster objectives around the same area. If not possible, at least place them so there is a straight path the walkers will follow, to make sure that tau have to come close if they want to score.
It is usually bad (for me) when the walkers start to get all over the board, then they get picked out one by one.
> a lot of cheap & relatively dangerous MSU units that can come directly in tau DZ and force tau to divert some of its shooting.
Cheap because they won't survive the shooting, and also because walkers take a lot of army pts. Dangerous like PK. big Choppa, template (kommandos. Koptas, skorchas), or the tau will ignore them.
They have to come turn 2 or 3 to make their sacrifice worthwile
2015/12/21 02:27:09
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Ok so a few small kommando groups would work well. I have yet to find something to support my walkers well so we shall see. I'll try some deff koptas as well. I have tried trukk boys and mek guns and they didn't work well.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
