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KFF on a bike is useful for running BWs. Not necessarily just blitz brigade either

 cranect wrote:
So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.

Tau are masters of killing Orks. Lots of split fire. Lots of Twin Linked. Lots of S5. We've got a few options that work well.

1) Battlewagons. Tau Have limited S8, and much of their S7 isn't very mobile. Just keep them spaced enough apart to avoid getting multiple blasted at once. Blitz Brigade works well. NOTE: Keep this away from the Stealth Cadre that hits back armor with melta. You can weather it if need be, but that is really rough to face.

2) Lobbas. The only thing in our army that can outrange Tau, and doesn't die when tau looks at it. Great for sniping out suites or drones in a buffmander squad.

3) Solo Deff Koptas. So Very, Very useful against Tau. Most Tau stuff is pretty shaking in CC, and they don't want to waste shots at 1 Deff Kopta. So its not uncommon that 2 Deff koptas can tarpit a riptide for some time. You need 2 of them so that 1 makes leadership or mob rule.

4) Stompas. Tau Struggle a bit with armor. A Stompa is a one man Wrecking crew.

If you are having trouble with Hammer and Anvil or Vanguard, consider taking a warboss with Da Finkin Kap. If you roll all in for Master of Ambush, you might be able to outflank trukks full of boyz / Tankbustas / MANZ.

Thanks for the tips there tag8833. I only have two battlewagons but what would you equip on them? Outside of tournaments stompas work but due to the tournament rules in the area they are a no go. Deff koptas ill need to try though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also are there any tips for the storm surge and killing it? I only have 5 tankbustas as well. Once I finish my tempestus scions I could ally some of them for hunting things like stormsurges and superheavies and such since my nobz flub everything against wraithknights and imperial knights.

 cranect wrote:
I only have two battlewagons but what would you equip on them?

Reinforced Ram. Rokkit. Nothing else.

 cranect wrote:
Also are there any tips for the storm surge and killing it?

Tarpit it. Or Power Claw it. MANZ are good at killing them. So are Warbosses. Just be careful with Stomp.

A storm surge is lots of points. Don't fall into the trap that it only requires the same allocation of resources that a normal MC does. One squad of Boys with a PK nob isn't going to do it. But 3 will.

Alright that sounds good. We shall see if the nobs and warbosses can finally break the flubbing streak against GCs and superheavies. If not then the list will hardly matter.

I've been real Kunnin lately with a simple Big Mek with Finkin Kap as Warlord, and hiding him solo in reserves. Roll twice on Strategic and just walk him out of LOS. Behind a building the whole game.

Hasent given up Slay the Warlord yet, and frees up more points for other stuff.

@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

 Grimskul wrote:
@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

Depending on the Tau list, they have a much easier time getting through a VSG than most other armies.

Also, Tau like to deep strike, and Deep striking Tau tends to use VSG's against you.

So I have seen the advice to put objecsec grots in a stompa....how does this do anything. I've looked at the rules A ND there is nothing that alows a unit to hold objectives while embarked in a transport. Is there a specific page for this rule?

tag8833 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

Depending on the Tau list, they have a much easier time getting through a VSG than most other armies.

Also, Tau like to deep strike, and Deep striking Tau tends to use VSG's against you.

Oh its definitely not a cure-all solution to Tau but even against Tau lists with lots of S7 spam via railsides or missile drones it gives Orks a short reprieve. Against deep striking the good thing is if you space well enough in your deployment they can't get within the VSG bubble to deny you its benefits. The more important thing is to allow you (in the case of your first turn being seized or you choosing to go second so you can use a denied flank manoeuvre against them) an increased measure of survivability in the first turn and having him waste several missiles/anti-tank shots to allow the majority of your units boosted in and by that point you would have moved after whatever units are on the board anyways, its not like Ork gunlines can compete with Tau in any way.

Has anyone tried out Reece's list or a variant thereof?

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/03/23/reecius-adepticon-40k-championships-report-orks-go-to-war/

Definitely will be doing Orks in the near-ish future (unless both Tyranids and CSM get a new codex before March (ha!) ) and I love the idea of a biker army, plus MANZ are awesome.

I'm thinking about finding a way to tweak the list to include a kill bursta/blasta and/or a big squiggoth. The only issue is that it costs more, arguably protects lootas less, and you sacrifice mobility compared to the DLS Warboss. Will probably just play such a list for fun. But do you guys find the kill bursta to be competitive? I think that the ridiculous str 7 ap 3 blast is probably the way to go, but it's hard to say no to the D.

Probably won't do an all-out biker star because I don't think it's optimal (if your opponent has ignores cover you're boned) but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not too familiar with FW stuff, so I can't comment on that. If you want a good blast weapon go for the kustom-mega kannon. It's str 8 ap 2 blast for 30 points. It might not be mobile, but it can reach plenty and you can take a ton of them.

Also, I agree with your sentiment on the bikers. They have both 4+ armor and a 4+ cover save, 3+ after turbo-boosting, but you make anything too scary on an orks list and the enemy will focus on bringing it down- and they'll have the tools to do it. Even though nob biker stars are scary, there's plenty that can gun them down. Definitely take bikers, but I'd skip the nob bikers. I feel getting more normal bikers for the same amount of points does better. Quantity over quality, I say.

At the same time, I have a question about something I might try running. I recently finished a set of MANz I plan to use in a MANz missile, but I have all these leftover parts- namely the bits for a KFF. I plan to just get a standard big mek and slap the KFF on him, stick him in a BW with a bunch of shootas, and basically try out some drive-by shooting. The benefits are that the BW gets the 5+ invuln from shooting, and the big mek can make repairs. If I really wanted to I could stack some grot riggers on it, but that may be overkill. The only downside I can see is that I lose out on a big shoota because I'll only have 19 shootas in the BW. I still think it's a better trade for the survivability. What're y'all's thoughts?

I have not tried it mostly because I don't really use bikes although I am starting to.i like the idea of the burstas ridiculous blast as well though.

 luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone tried out Reece's list or a variant thereof?

Spoiler:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/03/23/reecius-adepticon-40k-championships-report-orks-go-to-war/

Definitely will be doing Orks in the near-ish future (unless both Tyranids and CSM get a new codex before March (ha!) ) and I love the idea of a biker army, plus MANZ are awesome.

I'm thinking about finding a way to tweak the list to include a kill bursta/blasta and/or a big squiggoth. The only issue is that it costs more, arguably protects lootas less, and you sacrifice mobility compared to the DLS Warboss. Will probably just play such a list for fun. But do you guys find the kill bursta to be competitive? I think that the ridiculous str 7 ap 3 blast is probably the way to go, but it's hard to say no to the D.

Probably won't do an all-out biker star because I don't think it's optimal (if your opponent has ignores cover you're boned) but I'm open to suggestions

I've tried his lootastar. I'll admit, I discounted it at 1st, but have discovered it to be pretty useful. I don't run it often, because I almost always have a better usage for DLS, and it doesn't work near as well without it.

I don't like Bully boys in trukks. I've tried it a few times. Too often all 3 units got stranded in my backfield when I got siezed on. If I really wanted to do it, I'd put a VSG in the list and hope I don't see the Coteaz + Buffmander Tau lists I used to play all the time. Bully Boys can work, but either in Blitz Brigade, or Gunwagons. Reece was ridiculously successful with them in the batreps I saw him run, because his opponents didn't understand what they were looking at. An opponent that understand MANZ will just strand them all in the backfield.

Bikestar does have some problems (Tau, Centstar). I guess I don't think it has more problems than other Ork builds. MSU bikes work pretty well in alot of situations, but it takes Zhardsnark to make them work, and he needs a caddy. At the very least a Painboy as his personal assistant.

Reece likes putting 10 Tankbustas in a Trukk. I think this is a seriously suboptimal way to go. Trukks are a deathtrap. When they blow up if there are 10 Tankbustas inside they will usually be pinned or run away. If you must do big squads of Tankbusts it is worth a nob and bosspole. However in most situations small squads are better. 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk is a really, really good unit.

Big Squiggoth is slow. Gargantuan Squiggoth is pricey. Kill Blasta seems OK. I don't like the Kill Bursta unless you give it the D. I've never tried any of them out on the table. I have used a Kustom Battlefortress. It is OK, but overcosted.

Bully boyz + vsg are deadly.

 koooaei wrote:
Bully boyz + vsg are deadly.

+1
I won't field that in a friendly game, too brutal

Have you guys checked out the ITC ruling of Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa? The Big Mek Stompa is seriously undercosted (400 points for a basic loadout). The Stompa alone is possibly enough to make orks a Tier 1 threat.

This example list puts a unit of Lootas with 3 Meks, a unit of objSec gretchin, and a Big Mek that grants a 4++ invul save against shooting into the Stompa. That allows you to give objSec to the Stompa and an invul save to the Stompa and also allows you to make five 5+ hull point repair rolls on the Stompa each turn.

12 hull points, d6 power fields, 4++ invul to shooting, and five 5+ hull point repair rolls means the Stompa will likely be indestructible in most match-ups.

col_impact wrote:
Have you guys checked out the ITC ruling of Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa? The Big Mek Stompa is seriously undercosted (400 points for a basic loadout). The Stompa alone is possibly enough to make orks a Tier 1 threat.

This example list puts a unit of Lootas with 3 Meks, a unit of objSec gretchin, and a Big Mek that grants a 4++ invul save against shooting into the Stompa. That allows you to give objSec to the Stompa and an invul save to the Stompa and also allows you to make five 5+ hull point repair rolls on the Stompa each turn.

12 hull points, d6 power fields, 4++ invul to shooting, and five 5+ hull point repair rolls means the Stompa will likely be indestructible in most match-ups.

Spoiler:

Orks_1850 (1850pts)
Orks: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ
Painboy, Warbike (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)
Zhadsnark 'Da Rippa' (FW), Warlord (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Elites
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha

Troops
10x Gretchin, Runtherd,Grabba stik (rides in Stompa)
15x Warbiker (Warbiker Nob, Power Klaw) (Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Heavy Support
6x Loota (with 3x Mek, Choppa, Slugga) (rides in Stompa)

Great Waaagh! Detachment
HQ
Big Mek, Gubbinz: Mega Force Field, Choppa, Slugga (rides in Stompa)
Big Mek, Gubbinz: Big Bosspole, Warbike, Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Elites
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha

Troops
10x Gretchin, Runtherd, Grabba stik
10x Gretchin, Runtherd, Grabba stik

Lords of War
Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa, Deff Kannon, Deff Kannon, Mek Boss Buzzgob

I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

A few quick recaps from some games i played yesterday:

We are doing a campaign/league starting in 2016 at my store. armies start at 250 points with modified FOC and as the campaign continues onward they get bigger and bigger until about 1750 points.

So, to practice for the first games, my 250 list was
Painboy
10x Shoota Boyz (eavy armor)
Rokkit Boy (eavy armor)
Boss Nob - Klaw, Shoota, Bosspole (eavy armor)
Trukk - Ram

I played a friend of mine who is working on his eldar. He had a wave serpent and 9 dire avengers. Serpent was loaded with double shuriken catapults, and a ghostwalk matrix.

the first mission we tried was a progressive scoring, where the single central objective was worth 1 VP per game turn to whoever held it. He moved his serpent up to contest it (i went first), and on turn 2 i bailed out of the trukk and killed the serpent. the avengers only killed 1 boy and he called game because i was locked in assault with them on the following turn.

We re-racked and tried it again, making the objective an end-game 3 points instead of progressive. I went straight to it (it was in a ruin) and just bunkered down all game while he maneuvered this serpent around to get shots at my boyz. on turn 5 he moved the transport to contest the objective, and i did a move through cover roll, got the distance, then charged and wrecked the serpent. he had bailed out his DAs about 20" away from the objective the turn before so I ended up winning that one too.

third game was vs a chaos player - 7x CSM with mark of nurgle, and a rhino with a havoc launcher and 2 bolters. This time we tried an annihilation mission. He kept his marines on foot and parked the rhino on top of a ruin. Using the trukk to get in a good position i waited for his marines to get close, then bailed out and wrecked them in 2 rounds of melee. with a good consolidation and charge roll, i was able to wreck the rhino in the following turn - orks win!

So, are orks just better in small point games, or were these missions i played completely lopsided in my favor? I'm trying to organize this league in a fair manner, so any input would help me out.

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Here's something interesting to note, The FW download for the Dreadmob is gone. IA:8 on the horizon perhaps?

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

geargutz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Here's something interesting to note, The FW download for the Dreadmob is gone. IA:8 on the horizon perhaps?

I hope so. I was kind of confused how they seemed to skip a bunch of IA books by redoing the Eldar one recently, the Ork one is definitely showing its age at this point, it'd be great to have a clear update on all the cool toys you get in the book.

col_impact wrote:

geargutz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

Spoiler:

Controlling Objective Markers
You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring
units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it. As different
Objective Markers vary in shape and size, it is important to agree at the beginning of the
game exactly from where this distance will be measured. Any unit that is in a building is
considered to be within 3" of any Objective Markers that are on or within 3" of the
building.

Spoiler:

If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.

still not clear, these quotes that dont have a page number or any indication where they come from do not support the case. 1st quote refers to models, actual models, when a unit is embarked in a vehicle there is no model for the unit, just the vehicle...so just the vehicle holds the objective.
on page 82 of my softbound rulebook it talks about dedicated transports and how units that take a dedicated transport that are troops make the transport a troop, and in a cad the rules of objec secured apply to "all" troops...since this rule only applies to dedicated trasnsports then grots in a stompa wouldnt apply since the grots are not taking the stompa as a dedicated transport, and the stompa is only ever a lord of war. 2nd quote has no page attached to it, so ill ignore that for now.
on page 134 of said rule book under the section "controlling objective markers" is where you got your 1st quote, and it does specify models of a unit hold objectives....the logic here is flawed, this wouldnt apply to models not present on the table. if there is a specific rule to support your case then i would be convinced, otherwise i am not.

Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

just edited my post to form my argument in better wording....so hopefully the clears up my argument...also i want page numbers.

geargutz wrote:
just edited my post to form my argument in better wording....so hopefully the clears up my argument...also i want page numbers.

I find that I need to measure the range for the objective secured ability of the gretchins embarked on the Stompa.



Okay, the rule tells me to measure for objective secured from the Stompa's hull.

This is really straightforward. Not sure what your issue is.

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

XC18 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

Correct. The Stompa does not gain OS. But you measure the gretchin's OS from the Stompa's hull.