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 JohnU wrote:
A regular boss in mega armor is 132 (if you downgrade the kustom shoota to a regular) so still a decent point gap, but I think the value is there this time if you want a mega armored HQ.

Bosses on bikes are still tremendous for the points.

Yeah but none got a 4+ invu, ghazkhull does (he is the only one with baddruk to got naturally an invu).

little-killer wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
A regular boss in mega armor is 132 (if you downgrade the kustom shoota to a regular) so still a decent point gap, but I think the value is there this time if you want a mega armored HQ.

Bosses on bikes are still tremendous for the points.

Yeah but none got a 4+ invu, ghazkhull does (he is the only one with baddruk to got naturally an invu).

True and you can partially replicate this w a kff. I was kinda hoping it was 3++ even if only melee since so many other major characters are 3++ and every space marine generic w an iron halo is 4++ or storm shield are 3++.

Which leads me to my other issue w orks. We don't do a lot of mortal wounds.

Btw badrukk is awesome.
The stars however are those tankbustas. They kill everything.
They are phenominal in every way. Beatstick invul characters, high armor swarms, weight of dice, reliable range, multiple wounds, vehicles. They obliterate everyone at a decent cost.

 koooaei wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Boyz going to S4? Sounds like malarkey to me. I don't trust that rumour one bit - nothing we've seen so far would indicate that change... so I'd be wary about the points cost of anything in the same rumour.

Zerkers are straight s5 now.

I'll just be over here, enjoying my delicious crow...

I hadn't read that about berserkers either - looks like nothing's off the table this edition!

Ghaz is also back in the HQ slot instead of LoW.

 JohnU wrote:
Ghaz is also back in the HQ slot instead of LoW.

That's not really good considering we have a lot of important hqs and not a ton of slots for it. You can go multi detachment but lose command points. I was looking at brigade detachment personally fit the 12CP. But things will change when I get the book and can play w numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also another reason why tankbustas in trukks are awesome!!!
If a trukk explodes and you lose a model you can choose to sacrifice a bomb squig which don't count for morale. God they are awesome

I'm ASSuming that tournaments will be a 2 detachment limit so Battalion + Supreme Command detachment should cover most of my lists. Still a decent 7 command points and can bump it up to a Brigade depending on points.

'Ere We Go is a great CP saver for us.

 JohnU wrote:
I'm ASSuming that tournaments will be a 2 detachment limit so Battalion + Supreme Command detachment should cover most of my lists. Still a decent 7 command points and can bump it up to a Brigade depending on points.

'Ere We Go is a great CP saver for us.

match play is 3 detachment limit and entire army must share a keyword. So no chaos plus orks etc.

They forgot about mekboys and spannas with kustom mega blastas, I guess? It's an option on the sprue... it's also the only kind I have!

Yeah it appears there's a lot of stuff missing. I guess it was a bit hopeful to think they would keep in every single option. Stuff like 'ard boys have been around since 3rd edition, though... maybe the faction books will fix some of these issues, but how long will we be waiting for that? Meantime Imperial Guard are stuck without carapace armour for infantry and all that...

Here's a pointless exercise since work is slow. Looks like the cheapest Brigade clocks in at 612 points.

Big Mek 55
X3 - 165

10 Grots 30
x6 - 180

Mek 22
x3 -66

5 Stormboyz 40
x3 -120

Big Gun w/ Kannon and 2 gunners 27
x3 -81


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 Jambles wrote:
They forgot about mekboys and spannas with kustom mega blastas, I guess? It's an option on the sprue... it's also the only kind I have!

They can swap their slugga for something from the Souped up weapons list, where KMBs are.

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Ghaz is also back in the HQ slot instead of LoW.

That's not really good considering we have a lot of important hqs and not a ton of slots for it. You can go multi detachment but lose command points. I was looking at brigade detachment personally fit the 12CP. But things will change when I get the book and can play w numbers.

I think it's a very good thing instead as detachments like the brigade one needs a lot of mandatory HQs and many units, especially transports will probably cost more than in 7ed, that's why 3 HQs plus a LoW Ghaz may be too expensive. I think ghaz being a HQ makes him more viable.

I wonder if the 1850 points format will remain the standard one though. Many units are going to cost more than in 7th edition and I wouldn't be surprised if the new standard format will be set around 2000 or 2500 points.

little-killer wrote:yeah but kff cost 20 points so ^^.

75 including a Big Mek with just slugga and choppa, Painboy is 45 with PK and 'urty syringe, Nob with banner is also 79 but an elite choice with tl shoota and a +2S melee weapon.

gungo wrote:Again I haven't costed it out but a mega armor warbosse is 107 and ghaz is 215. Of course I haven't done weapons.

Is ghaz worth 2x ma warbosses? Costs are relative
His 4+ invul is partially replicated with a big Mek in ma w kff
Add a painboy or Maddoc within 6in and you have a durable little deattstsr again.

Ghaz is better in just not sure yet if he's better than 2 warbosses

Ninja by post above

MA warboss is at least 136, which is just 79 points short of Thrakka. Basically you can decide between having a buff on your warboss or on another model (KFF/Waaagh! Banner)
MA KFF Mek is at least 129 when trading KMB down for TL shoota

All three of them are viable options at first glance, so I guess that's good?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jambles wrote:
They forgot about mekboys and spannas with kustom mega blastas, I guess? It's an option on the sprue... it's also the only kind I have!

Yeah it appears there's a lot of stuff missing. I guess it was a bit hopeful to think they would keep in every single option. Stuff like 'ard boys have been around since 3rd edition, though... maybe the faction books will fix some of these issues, but how long will we be waiting for that? Meantime Imperial Guard are stuck without carapace armour for infantry and all that...

As above, Meks and Spannas can take KMB, Kustom Mega Slugga, Combi-Weapons, TL Shoota or Rokkit Launcha.

There is not a lot missing actually:
- 'ard boyz
- looted wagons (which were already missing from last codex)
- relics
- warlord traits
- non-weapon vehicle upgrades
- Grukk Face Rippa

Relics and traits will presumably be in the codex.

Not sure why the don't have rules for Grukk since there's an existing model. Heck they gave the friggin' Imperial Space Marine rules...

I too am sad about 'eavy armor on boyz.

Most improved unit?

Nobz.

17 points, free 'eavy and access to killsaws (which is weird, because the nob kit doesn't have killsaws in it...maybe these are the axe-saws??) Hitting at s10 ap-4.

A unit of nobs in a truck will wreck face.

From what I've seen (https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b71f3cbfc9b0011c66e573186f100a9e5c975f98310976576f5e0d015963bebc) Painboys, Mad Dok, Simple mek and Nob with Banner are all elite slots, even if they are single characters.

So mainly, Painboy don't compete with other HQs anymore!

 JimOnMars wrote:
I too am sad about 'eavy armor on boyz.

Most improved unit?

Nobz.

17 points, free 'eavy and access to killsaws (which is weird, because the nob kit doesn't have killsaws in it...maybe these are the axe-saws??) Hitting at s10 ap-4.

A unit of nobs in a truck will wreck face.

I kinda like flahs gitz however. Why did they lose eavy armor?

Nobz are decent their base weapon is a ap-2 power weapon.

however tankbustas are insanely good after taking that short hit after the grenade rule change in 7th. They even have a built in Morale mitigation with bomb squigs, every time you lose a model from trukk exploding to casualties in melee or shooting phase just CHOOSE a bomb squig to die and it doesn't effect morale.

Do we know how units with mixed saves and mixed toughness behave? is it still take the majority toughness/target's save? so 5 tankbustas, a nob w tankhammer, and 4 squigs?

Lootas are twice as good with damage 2.

In the case of squigs, they all have the same toughness/save. For things like ammo runts/grot oilers they specifically say to use the big guy's toughness.

 JohnU wrote:
In the case of squigs, they all have the same toughness/save. For things like ammo runts/grot oilers they specifically say to use the big guy's toughness.

runts and squigs (not counting as casualities for morale) and choose your casualties are BY FAR our best morale mitigation this edition. (Im so glad I magnetized my atk squig on my grukk faceripper base)
The nob bonus is kinda weak
The warboss bonus is tiny aoe (3in? really)
the blob bonus is very slow and specific build
Sharing a Nobs/warboss/units leadership within 6in is good though.

Here another question if my unit is within range or targeted by a aoe or power that lowers the targeted units leadership however another unit that is in range of this targeted unit is not effected by this modifier. Can I use that leadership without the modifier instead? Not sure if I explained this well.

I've just been perusing the Ork rules and wanted to get y'all's thoughts on some things.

The Zzap gun looks pretty decent now.

Do Deff Dreads technically have 4 attacks base with the two klaws adding 1 each or is it just 2 attacks. Just wanting to clarify.

For the Mek Gunz, the Bubblechukka looks like it still suffers from being too random (randumb if I may be so bold), the Mega-kannon looks like a pretty decent way to get some long ranged anti-big stuff, the Smasha gun looks a bit too random as well but the AP-4 does look pretty nice and with D6 damage it doesn't look like a bad idea to have it target things with T7 or less (7 of course being the most common result of 2D6), and the Traktor kannon looks like a very scary anti-air weapon.

Stormboyz look like they can be pretty scary massed up (a shame I only own 10 right now (still need to paint them as well....)) with their numbers helping them weather the casualties from Full Throttle (for those that haven't read it allow Stormboyz to advance and charge but you roll a D6 for each model and on a 1 it takes a mortal wound).

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Ghaz is also back in the HQ slot instead of LoW.

That's not really good considering we have a lot of important hqs and not a ton of slots for it. You can go multi detachment but lose command points. I was looking at brigade detachment personally fit the 12CP. But things will change when I get the book and can play w numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also another reason why tankbustas in trukks are awesome!!!
If a trukk explodes and you lose a model you can choose to sacrifice a bomb squig which don't count for morale. God they are awesome

You can sac bomb squigs to explosions (which seems like a really bad idea in the fluff but whatever), however bomb squigs do. take up space in your transports unless I missed something so if you want to max out a battlewagon or trukk then bomb squigs seem like a drawback, especially with increased transport costs.

gungo wrote:


Here another question if my unit is within range or targeted by a aoe or power that lowers the targeted units leadership however another unit that is in range of this targeted unit is not effected by this modifier. Can I use that leadership without the modifier instead? Not sure if I explained this well.

Mob Rule says you can use any friendly Ork unit's leadership within 6", so you should be good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's the real question. Can those +2 BS squigs man guns in fortifications?

 JohnU wrote:

gungo wrote:


Here another question if my unit is within range or targeted by a aoe or power that lowers the targeted units leadership however another unit that is in range of this targeted unit is not effected by this modifier. Can I use that leadership without the modifier instead? Not sure if I explained this well.

Mob Rule says you can use any friendly Ork unit's leadership within 6", so you should be good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's the real question. Can those +2 BS squigs man guns in fortifications?

No rule says they cant as long as its an infantry model in base contact. Orks do have a bit of gak in the rules that make them decent. Especially the way runts and squigs work. Even in the character rules grot orderly, atk squigs etc act as a single unit with the character and thus act like ablative wounds for the character EVEN if they get sniped.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
I've just been perusing the Ork rules and wanted to get y'all's thoughts on some things.

The Zzap gun looks pretty decent now.

Do Deff Dreads technically have 4 attacks base with the two klaws adding 1 each or is it just 2 attacks. Just wanting to clarify.

Correct. They have 2 base and get 1 for every single klaw, including the two it comes with.

For the Mek Gunz, the Bubblechukka looks like it still suffers from being too random (randumb if I may be so bold), the Mega-kannon looks like a pretty decent way to get some long ranged anti-big stuff, the Smasha gun looks a bit too random as well but the AP-4 does look pretty nice and with D6 damage it doesn't look like a bad idea to have it target things with T7 or less (7 of course being the most common result of 2D6), and the Traktor kannon looks like a very scary anti-air weapon.

Agree on of those, though I think only the kustom mega kannon seems to be worth taking. It's only 8 or 9 points more and pretty much do the same the other two do, while being better on average due to d6 shots.

Stormboyz look like they can be pretty scary massed up (a shame I only own 10 right now (still need to paint them as well....)) with their numbers helping them weather the casualties from Full Throttle (for those that haven't read it allow Stormboyz to advance and charge but you roll a D6 for each model and on a 1 it takes a mortal wound).

Agree, too bad Zagstrukk is just a beatstick and does not buff them in a meaningful way. Did you notice they have the Fly keyword? They can finally assault planes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More thoughts:

Warlord traits are
1) +1 A on the charge for the warlord
2) +1 ld for models within 6"
3) 6+ FNP for the warlord

All are pretty nice for a warboss, and you can pick instead of rolling. Which one is best? I'd probably go with the additional attack. Thrakka would go up to 7 attacks on the charge with that trait

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Ghaz is also back in the HQ slot instead of LoW.

That's not really good considering we have a lot of important hqs and not a ton of slots for it. You can go multi detachment but lose command points. I was looking at brigade detachment personally fit the 12CP. But things will change when I get the book and can play w numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also another reason why tankbustas in trukks are awesome!!!
If a trukk explodes and you lose a model you can choose to sacrifice a bomb squig which don't count for morale. God they are awesome

You can sac bomb squigs to explosions (which seems like a really bad idea in the fluff but whatever), however bomb squigs do. take up space in your transports unless I missed something so if you want to max out a battlewagon or trukk then bomb squigs seem like a drawback, especially with increased transport costs.

The thing is tankbustas are still a suicide unit. they are not resilent.
You probably don't want squads of 10-15 tankbustas as that's just a lot of wasted atks in most cases (just like last edition where 7-8 was the sweet spot)
So a trukk with 7 tankbustas a nob w tankhammer (can it replace his rokkit with one?) and 4 bomb squigs is fairly resistant to morale. It would need to take 5 casualties before it takes a morale test. If the bomb squigs don't die they still do great damage.
Trukks are faster than battlewagons so I probably would just use the battle wagon as a gunwagon with flash gitz or something.. still not sold on battlewagons.

Another grood unit is the scorcha, its fast it outflanks, it is fairly resilent, and it does D6 automatic hits at str5 ap-1. They obviously made the scorcha only 8" so that it couldn't just appear and roast whatever it wanted in your movement phase though.


Ok just being clear because I didn't see them anywhere. The following upgrades are all gone right?
boarding planks
Stikk bomb chukka
Rams
boss poles

Honestly I think bosspoles should have been included to allow a reroll to the nob morale special rule.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I too am sad about 'eavy armor on boyz.

Most improved unit?

Nobz.

17 points, free 'eavy and access to killsaws (which is weird, because the nob kit doesn't have killsaws in it...maybe these are the axe-saws??) Hitting at s10 ap-4.

A unit of nobs in a truck will wreck face.

I remember my Nobz having a circular saw of some kind, I only know because I've used it for 'counts as' Nob with Power Klaw.

Okay maybe I can get excited for Battlewagonz.. and get an edition of fun with my footNobz.

So I was thinking about Deffkoptas. They seem really expensive at 55+28 pts, but they can basically teleport in like Terminators, they fire 2 rokkits and in combat they do 2D3 hits at S5. And then I saw that they may be equipped with Bigbomms, which are one-use but on fly-over cause a mortal wound to up to 5 enemies on 5+. And Bigbomms are 0 pts. That actually sounds like they can be a pretty decent harassment/distraction unit despite the cost?

EDIT: Also, what about a Trukk with 5 Nobs with a PK, a couple of Big Choppas and maybe a Kombi-Scorcha, and then 5 Tankbustas with 2 Bombsquigs. That kombo should hit pretty hard without being too pricey, right? Drive up to the enemy, unload the Nobz and shoot. Then, if the Trukk survives, the Nobz charge in and the Tankbustas stay in the Trukk for firesupport.

Didn't notice the bomb was free. Could be a solid choice for harassing small backfield squads like snipers.

Fly over and drop the bomm during movement, take 6 shots with the big shoota, then charge what's left. Only 61 points in that configuration so not a big loss either.

For the grabbin klaw and wreckin' ball, when it says they may only make so many attacks with those weapons in a given fight phase, do they simply subtract from the vehicle's attack "pool"?

Mob rule allows you to use another units leadership.... Can you daisy chain a war bosses leadership by conferring it from unit to unit?

Wow, I need to make 10 bigbomms.

Odd that GW decided we all needed them.

The kopta scout move is cool because it can be used on any turn, including the first. Opponents facing orks better fully bubblewrap their HQs.