Dakka's Game - Maelstrom's Edge - First teaser from the Broken faction - pg 91

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**Mymearan**

Accolade wrote:
There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?

Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.

I just don't think they serve their purpose. You scroll down, see what you think is another post, scroll further and... "Oh god damn it every time...". Inline forum ads are not a good idea imo, and I haven't seen them much before, and those I have seen tend to be clearly marked as ads as soon as you catch a glimpse of them. These have a small text where the username would be, but no one looks at that before they look at the pic in the main body of the post.

**carlos13th**

Accolade wrote:
There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?

Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.

Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.

**Accolade**

carlos13th wrote:
Accolade wrote:
There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?

Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.

Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.

I have seen multiple posts (perhaps more in the other thread) of people talking about quitting Dakka over this.

EDIT: I mean, maybe this is just some poster's ways, I know I see people talking about quitting 40k all the time. The difference here is that you are not paying for it (minus those of us who are DCMs, and I still think a couple of days is first world-grade problems).

**Spiral Arm Studios**

Today's update features the start of a battle report between the Karists and Epirians. Let us know what you think about the diagrams, writing and details! Kickstarter locks us in to 640 pixels maximum width for diagrams which is a bit of a pain, but we've zoomed in on key areas of each activation to help with clarity.

**carlos13th**

Accolade wrote:
carlos13th wrote:
Accolade wrote:
There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?

Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.

Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.

I have seen multiple posts (perhaps more in the other thread) of people talking about quitting Dakka over this.

EDIT: I mean, maybe this is just some poster's ways, I know I see people talking about quitting 40k all the time. The difference here is that you are not paying for it (minus those of us who are DCMs, and I still think a couple of days is first world-grade problems).

I havent seen it in this thread.

That said if this is enough for them to quit Dakka they are welcome to do so are they not? They are also welcome to say why they left before they do so. If this makes them feel like Dakka is no longer the forum for them then thats fine.

**Kosake**

Wow guys, can you all rein it in a little? Geez. I for one like it that some folks here decided to make their own game, with black jack and scarecrows. Some descisions in the process may have been better than others, but cut the guys in charge some slack, will ya? All this negativity here... seriously, it's not GW you're bashing.

**angelofvengeance**

Kosake wrote:
Wow guys, can you all rein it in a little? Geez. I for one like it that some folks here decided to make their own game, with black jack and scarecrows. Some descisions in the process may have been better than others, but cut the guys in charge some slack, will ya? All this negativity here... seriously, it's not GW you're bashing.

Feels like it is though? lol.

I don't get why people throw their toys out the pram over something like that. Other places have advertising. What's wrong with promoting a product? It's not like they're using those PITA pop ups that fill the screen.

Back on topic, I look forward to seeing these on general release as I hope to get my mitts on the Angel Minnows for my DE beasts pack

**bbb**

yakface wrote:
bbb wrote:
Yeah, I HATE these giant adverts at the end of page... HATE them...

This is the first time I've ever been unhappy with Dakka...

I'm truly sorry about that, and I hope that you can forgive us.

Since we purchased Dakka in 2007, we have made dozens of decisions over that time to preserve user experience in exchange for not maximizing potential revenue for the site. My mantra has always been that as long as the site pays for its own operation, then every decision beyond that is based upon the concept of: 'does this make the user experience better?'

Anyone out there who thinks we've made a ton of money operating Dakka over the years is sorely mistaken. We have purposely kept Dakka as ad-free (as possible) to maintain that user experience, despite continuing to add incredibly costly benefits like the free picture hosting of the Dakka gallery and continually upgrading our servers to handle the increased user load (as the popularity of Dakka has continued to climb). Not to mention all the man-hours that go into actually running and maintaining the site for which we take no pay.

While the success of Maelstrom's Edge is incredibly important to us, it is not some cash cow we're trying to milk. The realities of plastic miniature production means that an incredible amount of capital has to be invested up front with the intent to make back those costs (and hopefully a profit) over the long term. So Maelstrom's Edge is very much a passion project for all of us. We didn't create it to try to make a buck, but rather because we wanted to make something we thought would be cool and hoped that others would also find cool as well. Yes, Maelstrom's Edge will go to market at this point regardless of how much or how little more we raise on the KS, but having a strong closing can definitely really help to push the project forward, and that in turn could eventually help to fund Dakka, ensuring that we can continue to grow the site without adding new permanent advertising.

However, part of trying to do what we can to get our message across about MEdge does obviously involve temporarily breaking some of those core ideals and putting fairly annoying ads here on Dakka. So again, I apologize for that. Please know that we will not be running further Kickstarters for MEdge in the future, and these advertisements are very temporary (just until the end of the KS in 5-ish days). I hope you can empathize with all that hard work and effort we've put into running Dakka for many years where the focus has been on putting the user experience first, and cut us some slack for this temporary breach of etiquette.

I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.

**legoburner**

bbb wrote:

I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.

Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.

**angelofvengeance**

Lol this is hilarious. Friggin ridiculous overreaction.

**MaxT**

Holy gak, I get it, there's a kickstarter going on. No need for it to be advertised on every fething page on the forum, Jesus.

**Theophony**

legoburner wrote:
bbb wrote:

I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.

Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.

But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter. It happened to me twice before I enlarged the screen enough on my iPhone to locate the hint of where the "X" is to close it.

I appreciate your passion for gaming, and for you all providing this website, and for your efforts in creating a whole universe with getting writers on board and such. Personally I do not like the aesthetics of either faction, and i am looking for a different sort of story than the snippets I've read.

I can live with the advertising for a few more days, especially since I've collapsed the images, so I don't understand the "I'm throwing out all my stuff and quitting dakkadakka" though I actually haven't seen that said anywhere except from the people condemning the people who supposedly said it.

I do want to say however that I was more apt to get into the game and back at the very beginning of the campaign, but when people voiced their opinions and were shouted down I was completely turned off. SAS had no control over this happening, it was the general audience of future MEdge players that caused it, it's something that has to be watched in my opinion. The reason I don't go to play at FLGS are because of "those players" who have to be heard and shout down anyone who doesn't like what they like, or know better than others, or my biggest peeve the one who cuss loud enough for everyone to enjoy

. I saw some interesting points brought up by others and saw them shot down by others who think they are earning Dakkadakka points by defending every decision made by SAS. I kept quiet as I wanted this to succeed even if I am not part of it. We all need to realize we are ambassadors of the hobby from time to time, and with all new aspects what we say can make or break a persons decision on joining the hobby and creating a larger player add for each other.

If I've offended anyone with what I've said, I'm sorry.

**Accolade**

MaxT wrote:
Holy gak, I get it, there's a kickstarter going on. No need for it to be advertised on every fething page on the forum, Jesus.

Try reading the thread to see that if you click the "X" in the top left corner, it turns off the advertisements (yes, I realize a text blurb still exists at the bottom, but if that is really getting to you then you might have legitimate anger issues).

**angelofvengeance**

Theophony wrote:

Spoiler:

legoburner wrote:
bbb wrote:

I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.

Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.

But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter. It happened to me twice before I enlarged the screen enough on my iPhone to locate the hint of where the "X" is to close it.

I appreciate your passion for gaming, and for you all providing this website, and for your efforts in creating a whole universe with getting writers on board and such. Personally I do not like the aesthetics of either faction, and i am looking for a different sort of story than the snippets I've read.

I can live with the advertising for a few more days, especially since I've collapsed the images, so I don't understand the "I'm throwing out all my stuff and quitting dakkadakka" though I actually haven't seen that said anywhere except from the people condemning the people who supposedly said it.

I do want to say however that I was more apt to get into the game and back at the very beginning of the campaign, but when people voiced their opinions and were shouted down I was completely turned off. SAS had no control over this happening, it was the general audience of future MEdge players that caused it, it's something that has to be watched in my opinion. The reason I don't go to play at FLGS are because of "those players" who have to be heard and shout down anyone who doesn't like what they like, or know better than others, or my biggest peeve the one who cuss loud enough for everyone to enjoy . I saw some interesting points brought up by others and saw them shot down by others who think they are earning Dakkadakka points by defending every decision made by SAS. I kept quiet as I wanted this to succeed even if I am not part of it. We all need to realize we are ambassadors of the hobby from time to time, and with all new aspects what we say can make or break a persons decision on joining the hobby and creating a larger player add for each other.

If I've offended anyone with what I've said, I'm sorry.

**insaniak**

Theophony wrote:
But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter.

If traffic from Dakka has increased 4 times, and backers from Dakka have increased 3-5 times, that number would seem to be quite small.

**Accolade**

@Theo: here is a post that I had in mind for people commenting on the "state" of this reaching "gotta quit dakka" level. Whether it's said it jest, I don't think it really matters, I think people have blown the "SAS doesn't listen to what to say" all the way to the level of "they're just as bad as GW!"

Spoiler:

Which again, seems really silly over something that (a) most everyone (excluding the DCMs) pays absolutely nothing for, (b) has been responded to at great length, and (c) lasts a total of five days in one week.

**carlos13th**

You dont think it matters if someone is joking or saying something in jest? Of course it does.

Also if these adds and the way the and the kickstater talk effects someones Dakka experence enough that they want to stay away from Dakka until it finishes whats the problem?

Personally I only check this thread once in a while. One of the main reasons being that to some posters it seems that any criticism of SAS is tantamount to heresy. Its not unique to this thread and its not all posters. You see similar things in the Infinity threads too but it seems that much stronger here and it makes people not want to voice their views honestly or give their opinions.

**MLaw**

Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.

**Grey Templar**

Thats some pretty harsh accusations, pretty unfair IMO.

**Accolade**

Jesus, what is Dakka going to be accused of next, being composed of Illuminati?

@carlos: I should have been more clear, the comment reads literally "haha, I'd delete my account if I could." That's not really said in jest. Still, why would sour grapes "jokes" like that be necessary in response to a freakin ad.

I've seen a group of posters who have been screaming about being oppressed this entire time. SAS has had the most direct posts from a company, particularly in response to things people don't like (many of which I feel are fair), but there is no end in sight to the "Dakka has turned against us!" All over one ad for five days on a website (most of us) don't pay anything towards. It's freaking ridiculous.

Oh, and I see that they added an extra "close ad" button to the bottom of the page, I can't wait to see how malicious the bandwagon says it is or how legoburner literally came to their houses and burned their Legos.

**Theophony**

@accolade, not sure about the oppression issue.

some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.

Good on the Admins for creating the X button on the bottom ad too(haven't looked for it yet, but I'm not troubled by the text at the bottom, it was just the huge banners at the top AND bottom of the screen that I was frustrated by.

As for not being a DCM, as that's been brought up a couple times, I've read the perks package and there's nothing screaming at me to back as a DCM. Now if there was a special MODcube that was DCM only, I might back it, but I don't need anymore dice or forge world and there's plenty of content in the not so cool crowd areas. Not to mention an extremely tight hobby budget which is my main reason for stopping GW.

**carlos13th**

Accolade wrote:
Jesus, what is Dakka going to be accused of next, being composed of Illuminati?

@carlos: I should have been more clear, the comment reads literally "haha, I'd delete my account if I could." That's not really said in jest. Still, why would sour grapes "jokes" like that be necessary in response to a freakin ad.

I've seen a group of posters who have been screaming about being oppressed this entire time. SAS has had the most direct posts from a company, particularly in response to things people don't like (many of which I feel are fair), but there is no end in sight to the "Dakka has turned against us!" All over one ad for five days on a website (most of us) don't pay anything towards. It's freaking ridiculous.

Oh, and I see that they added an extra "close ad" button to the bottom of the page, I can't wait to see how malicious the bandwagon says it is or how legoburner literally came to their houses and burned their Legos.

The I would delete my account if I could but can't find the button looks like a joke in reference to the fact that they the close advert button was difficult to find because it blended into the background. Seems like a joke to me. What's the problem with someone making a joke. He even puts an emote at the end it didn't seem serious at all to me and even if it was what's the problem as I have said before if people feel the adverts are enough to put them off dakka then they have every right to leave and every right to express that. And dakka have every right to feel the adverts are worth the loss or the claim of the loss of a few members or not.

No idea what the blaming yakface for the decline of 40k is all about. Unless he is on gw board of directors that's pure nonsense.

**insaniak**

MLaw wrote:
I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline..

Er... what?

Theophony wrote:
@accolade, not sure about the oppression issue. some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.

I suspect that you're imbuing posts disagreeing with negative opinions with a lot more angst than is actually there.

You'll get this to some degree in pretty much any discussion online, but it's much more apparent when opinions are a little more polarised. It's really easy, when you see an opinion that is diametrically opposed to your own, to assume that the other poster is being unreasonable... 'My opinion is rational and sensible, and so this person claiming to disagree with me is clearly being irrational, or posting with some sort of ulterior motive.'

When, in reality, the vast majority of time it's just that their opinion is different to yours... we just put more emotive weight on those posts that differ more wildly from our own opinion.

We see this all the time in GW threads... That new model is clearly rubbish, so anyone who claims to like it is instantly branded a 'White Knight' and is blinded by their fanatical devotion to the GW. It couldn't possibly be that they like something that someone else doesn't...

**Theophony**

insaniak wrote:
MLaw wrote:
I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline..

Er... what?

Theophony wrote:
@accolade, not sure about the oppression issue. some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.

I suspect that you're imbuing posts disagreeing with negative opinions with a lot more angst than is actually there.

You'll get this to some degree in pretty much any discussion online, but it's much more apparent when opinions are a little more polarised. It's really easy, when you see an opinion that is diametrically opposed to your own, to assume that the other poster is being unreasonable... 'My opinion is rational and sensible, and so this person claiming to disagree with me is clearly being irrational, or posting with some sort of ulterior motive.'

When, in reality, the vast majority of time it's just that their opinion is different to yours... we just put more emotive weight on those posts that differ more wildly from our own opinion.

We see this all the time in GW threads... That new model is clearly rubbish, so anyone who claims to like it is instantly branded a 'White Knight' and is blinded by their fanatical devotion to the GW. It couldn't possibly be that they like something that someone else doesn't...

I get what your saying, it was actually when I was reading people's responses to other posters comments that I was seeing this. At that point I hadn't made a decision concerning the models myself, but was just REALLY rubbed the wrong way by a self appointed spokesman for SAS. A person who says they have no involvement in the game except being a backer. It's fine when people are adamantly for something, but when it costs potential backers then it creates a problem for the future growth of a system.

**keltikhoa**

About the batrep.

It sounds like a fun game. I can not wait to try the beta rules.
The one issue I see however is at the end of this single turn batrep you are at 36 suppression tokens on the field, 24 on the karist - 12 on EC. If you are only able to remove suppression at a rate of 1d3 per unit or 1-1 command points(gained in very low amounts per turn), both sides are going to be vastly overwhelmed by suppression in a very short time and winner will be determined by who gets the lucky auto success roll when trying to activate their unit.
does failing the roll to activate a unit due to suppression still allow you to shake some suppression?

This makes me think that the later game turns devolve playing a game with suppression tokens instead of models.

**Grey Templar**

I also noticed that. Thats gonna need some playtesting for sure. Maybe add a cap, realistically there is probably a point where a few more bullets aren't making a ton of difference.

**Mathieu Raymond**

I haven't seen the batrep, because of work, but I remember playing Stargrunt and that was all there was to it. We never could wound or kill, just add more suppression, and it would never go away, so we became bunked in our respective positions and couldn't do anything.

**AlexHolker**

Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
Today's update features the start of a battle report between the Karists and Epirians. Let us know what you think about the diagrams, writing and details! Kickstarter locks us in to 640 pixels maximum width for diagrams which is a bit of a pain, but we've zoomed in on key areas of each activation to help with clarity.

I don't like the diagrams. The problem isn't the 640 pixel limit, it's how you tried to compensate for that.

If I were you, I would look at some of the old 40k battle reports from 2nd edition.

1. Create some simple icons for vehicles and objectives which are recognisable on sight. Just using bigger triangles isn't an adequate alternative, especially if you insist on zooming in all the time.
2. Pick better colours. If white means "neutral" (for the Cybel Refineries), don't also use it to mean "Epirian" (for the Spider Drones).
3. The end of turn 1 map should show what happened in turn 1, because that's the only map that gives any kind of useful overview of how the game as a whole is going. Give each unit a move arrow (but not a shoot arrow) showing where they moved in turn 1 and crosses for any members killed in turn 1.

**the_Armyman**

MLaw wrote:
Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.

There's this guy who owns a website. He doesn't ask for a dime, he staffs it with good mods, and seems a decent enough fellow. Him and a couple of guys from the website develop a game for a few years, are looking to bring it to market, and want to advertise on their own website. Again, doesn't cost you a thing to ignore the adverts.

Instead of being a decent human being and simply going on your way, you invite yourself onto this guy's website, prop your feet up, insult him, and then smile while you figuratively poke a stick in his eye. From one human being to another: what sort of things are going on in your life that makes you this type of person? I pity you, Mlaw.

**Shas'O Dorian**

the_Armyman wrote:
MLaw wrote:
Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.

There's this guy who owns a website. He doesn't ask for a dime, he staffs it with good mods, and seems a decent enough fellow. Him and a couple of guys from the website develop a game for a few years, are looking to bring it to market, and want to advertise on their own website. Again, doesn't cost you a thing to ignore the adverts.

He does ask in the form of DCM donations. That is asking not demanding.

I think what the Armyman means is he is not a fan of the INAT FaQ whick yakface was chief writer & editor for and as such does not agree with yakface on how to design/balance a game. He's voicing his opinion is a public forum, he doesn't have to kiss yakface's rear just because it'syakface's sight. If he doesn't like the game it's actually good that he voices WHY so they might improve on it. NOTHING is above criticism and in fact I'd much rather be criticized than praised. You learn nothing further from being told how great you are.