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So recently I've been playing with a new Tau player and I really can't seem to get the best of him. I have no idea how to effectively deal with his massive amount of firepower and shots.
Anything I try to assault with usually dies in Overwatch, what doesn't die gets nuked next turn by his Broadsides/Command squad/Crisis suits

He usually keeps all his nice stuff off the board and stacks squads of fire warriors and pathfinders on the edge of the board until his nice things come in.
I've tried a variety of lists but can't seem to out body him or outright kill him.
I'm also not sure what to prioritize for killing. It seems like the Broadsides are the sure thing, but he stacks Pathfinders right next to them, so anything I assault with gets merced almost instantly.
I lost 200+ points worth of assault termies in over watch before.
Any Space Wolves players out there with advice? We play 1250-1500 point games. I pretty much have access to everything in my codex except for Wolf Scouts.

The only success I had was losing by one victory point after my Thunderlord managed to survive 4 shooting phases, 4ish over watches and killed his command squad, his broadsides and a squad of pathfinders. But the game ended and he won by one VP :/.

Some tau basics:

Pathfinders (or rather things with marker lights) act as a force multiplier. If you take these out first he looses bs boosts and looses ignores cover for most of his units.

Riptides can be tarpitted.

Tau units with the supporting fire ability (all BUT kroot, vespid, and most of their vehicles) can fire overwatch on an enemy unit charging a friendly unit within 6 inches of the supporting fire unit. This ability does not confer the ability to fire overwatch more than once a turn per unit (so keep track of who has used up their overwatch each turn). Also use sacrificial units to use up overwatch.

Tau don't have a good answer to psychic powers.

If this doesn't help then you need someone with more experience than me.

If he only has Fire Warriors and Pathfinders on the Edge of the board then you really need to run Space Wolves in Drop Pods, land and nuke them because they are all only 4+ and 5+ armor save guys and take advantage of their low LD when he rolls for checks.

The thing is, with those pathfinders and fire warriors he always has a squad of misslesides, whom I have a hard time killing by shooting. Anytime I've assaulted them they've nuked me in over watch.
Not to mention the Crisis suits, Stealth suits and Command squad he deep strikes turn 2-3 which just take out anything and everything.
I don't have enough drop pods to really DEDICATE to a drop pod list, otherwise I could likely table him honestly.
I really want to run more of an assault list over a shooty list, but it seems that's not going to go very well against Tau.
As for psychic powers, which list should I roll for? I could run double Rune Priest with a squad of Grey Hunters each dropped in.

If you don't have enough drop pods, you could also ask to proxy some. You would also make some makeshift ones with a few pieces of cut cardstock.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If you don't have enough drop pods, you could also ask to proxy some. You would also make some makeshift ones with a few pieces of cut cardstock.

That's true, we don't really mind proxies. But would 5 squads of grey hunters be able to handle Crisis suits and stealth suits that are deep striking?

It really depends what they are toting, and if you can/are willing to assault them. If you can hit them with S8+ weaponry, especially AP3-, crisis suits should be no problem, and stealth suits have pretty good defense, but aren't very tough, and can't do anything outside 18"

Watch out for duel plasma rifle crisis suits however, they should be your primary target, especially in mixed units with blast weapons.

The Tau are at least immune to the SW chapter tactic.

I usually pack my GH with double plasma guns
Unfortunately with my amazing rolling they almost ALWAYS get hot.
Would melta be a better choice?

And SW Chapter tactics? Are you referring to the Wolves Unleashed Detachment? I wasn't aware SWs had a chapter tactic.

Metla is only really a choice if you can reliably get within 12", but meltaguns absolutely wreck crisis suits, wounding on a 2+, ignoring their armour, and instakillling them. Really, it comes down to your preference and your and the opponents playstyle. If he likes to keep his suits at range, then plasma guns are a better choice, but if he likes to get in close and try and get the rapid fire off on plasma rifles, or hit you with fusion blasters, then meltaguns, plus a charge will most likely decimate him, especially if he has a bad boost roll.

 maddog99y wrote:
And SW Chapter tactics? Are you referring to the Wolves Unleashed Detachment? I wasn't aware SWs had a chapter tactic.

He probably means counter attack and acute senses.

pm713 wrote:

 maddog99y wrote:
And SW Chapter tactics? Are you referring to the Wolves Unleashed Detachment? I wasn't aware SWs had a chapter tactic.

He probably means counter attack and acute senses.

Ahhh gotcha. Which I guess Tau are quite immune to them. Don't see them charging me anytime soon....

But as for the melta/plasma, I might have to play a few more games to see how he plays his suits. His Riptide hasn't come in yet, so I haven't had the honor to deal with that.

I really like the idea of termies against him due to the fact that only his crisis suits and stealth suits have anything to pass their armor save, but I don't have much faith on my saving throws.

I guess the only way honestly is a Drop Pod list or maybe double Land Raider? I also thought about the Stormwolf but our board is so small that its kinda ineffective.
Plus he has the tendency of one shotting Land Raiders with lucky Fusion shots.

I know it was said before, but I must reinforce - Drop pods.

Tau have range and anti-vehicle as two major strengths. Drop dem pods of wolves right in his face, guns blazing. A couple squads of GH with flamers can drop lots of rapid fire dakka, and 4 templates. Drop a dreadnought with great wolf claw (or Murderfang) next to some Fire Warriors/Pathfinders and have a tasty snack.

Drop pods eliminate those strengths, allowing you touse yours. TWC with SS may be a viable option as well, for RIPPING AND TEARING. Metal boxes not so much vs Tau.

As others have said, deep striking is how you beat tau. First turn you bypass their defense and everything that allows them to have a chance. Drop in some dreadnoughts too. I have found the axe/shield dreadnought to be a great distraction carnifex when he is in a pod. Plus they can stand up to just about everything in CC with that ++3 save.

Pinning weapons are your friend. Pinned units cannot overwatch or join in overwatch in Tau's case.

Well taking all of y'alls advice into consideration, I have devised a list for our next game!

HQ- 235 pts
Rune Priest- Mastery Level 2, Runic Armour, Combi-Flamer
Rune Priest- Mastery Level 2, Runic Armour, Storm-Bolter

Elites- 540 pts
3x Venerable Dreadknought- Blizzard Shield, Great Axe, Drop Pods

Troops- 721 pts
8x Grey Hunter- Flamer, Drop Pod
Wolf Guard Pack Leader- Combi-Flamer
8x Grey Hunter- Flamer, Drop Pod
Wolf Guard Pack Leader- Combi-Flamer
9x Grey Hunter- 2x Flamer, Drop Pod
Wolf Guard Pack Leader- Combi Flamer
5x Grey Hunter- Flamer, Drop Pod
Wolf Guard Pack Leader- Combi Flamer

Basically hope to drop each of the Grey Hunter squads turn 1 to flame out and destroy all of his Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, and maybe take out his Broadsides with the psyker powers. Then turn 2, mop up everything that he brings in from reserves with the rest of my Grey Hunters and whatevers left dies to my Dreads on turn 3. How does that look?

Try a few things:

1. Drop Templates on him. Fire Warriors are venerable to Heavy Flamers like you would not believe.
2. Upgrade Storm Bolters on Drop Pods to those Launcher things.
3. Drop Pods block LOS, even if you drop them empty and walk your Troops. You can even box in Tau tanks with a wall of Drop Pods.
4. Space Wolves OUTFLANK nicely.
5. Bring more cover or place cover in the mid-field to block his LOS more.
6. Place objectives in the midfield so he has to move.
7. Make free cover saves with your lesser infantry units etc.
8. RP powers

Not a bad list, although I would cosider changing one of the dreads to shooting. Heavy flamer, with either anti-infantry or hellstorm cannon.

Extra challenge: try making a non-tailored list. Although for SW, that's likely going to be drop pods anyway.

The best thing against us in listbuilding, is to remember we are VERY good at annialating a juicy target, but we do NOT enjoy small and "worthless" targets as they get us to have issues with marking, and overwatching.

Tau can mulch pretty mcuh any superunit or deathstar, but it HATES MSU opponents.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The best thing against us in listbuilding, is to remember we are VERY good at annialating a juicy target, but we do NOT enjoy small and "worthless" targets as they get us to have issues with marking, and overwatching.

Tau can mulch pretty mcuh any superunit or deathstar, but it HATES MSU opponents.

I can definitely see that now.
His Tau ate both squads of my TWC like they were Fire Warriors themselves.

I have been a Tau player for many a long times, and conveniently so, I am also just starting with Space Wolves.

One problem with Tau overwatch, is that each unit can still only fire once. There have been many times as a Tau player that a unit has HAD to overwatch against a unit because I was being charged, when I would rather use my overwatch shots on something else. Of course, I couldn't just save my overwatch for later because I would be in assault (unless the charge failed, which is not impossible but not something to rely on). I have before made the stupid mistake of not overwatching a unit because I didn't want to waste it on this small unit charging me and I wanted to save it for a larger unit that would be charging second. Then I realized what I'd done when I was locked in combat. It's mistakes like these that you can capitalize on. Force your opponent to make tricky decisions.

It's been mentioned already, but Pathfinders and Fire Warriors have very low toughness (3). Pathfinders NEED cover, as they also have a bad armour save (5+). Fire Warriors are little better with a 4+ save. That is why flamers are just so great, a basic one may only be S4 but it negates everything a Pathfinder can throw in it's way, and against T3 you will roast them. While a bit less common, a Heavy Flamer will be even more effective in comparison against Fire Warriors, because you are negating their better save but now you are roasting T3 models with an improved S5. Flamers are your friend!

And on an additional note....Jaws of the World Wolf! Crush those multi-wound low initiative Tau (Crisis, Broadsides) with it.

Whatever you do, if you're not using drop pods to get in their face, don't try to outshoot the Tau from your table edge. Don't use large assault units either if you're going to run the board, use lots of little ones to limit his ability to effectively overwatch by charging with multiple units. You need speed/drop pods. No foot slogging or trying to dig in.

Without proxying and list tailoring you should be able to handle him fine with 1 drop pod. If he isnt using an ethereal then his infantry only needs to fail 2-3 wounds before they most likely run away(leadership 7, 8 if he pays for a Shas'ui). I don't know spacewolves codex very well but a couple shooty thing to make his infantry run while your TWC moves up the board will have his broadsides really vulnerable.

I would also suggest using normal Termies for their shooting capability after deepstriking. Assault Termies are going to be a huge threat(Also just landed in the middle of our entire gunline) and will be most likely wiped out before they can charge.

When you drop your grey hunters with the flamer try to hit two squads with the template, if hes running minimum squads of FW then they will flee quick. If he is using an Ethereal kill it asap and it gives you 1VP for killing him, dont forget that

Also don't put 2 of your important units close together, he most likely will Deepstrike his commander squad with splitfire on everybody and gun both of them down.

Just give the Tau too many things to shoot at and by turn 3 your should have a few units capable of making charges and you will overwhelm him.

For SW, heavy pods is totally TAC. For many other marine chapters, it's really iffy.

So updates, I totally destroyed our Tau player Saturday. Played 2 games with him, tabled him both turn 2. Really was lucky that I seized the initiative twice in a row
Ended up never using the dread, my flamer pods just made his Pathfinders disappear both turn 1s, and my TWC always made it into combat turn 2 to make his Fire Warriors go bye bye.
Was fun.

Tactics an planning can beat all but the most grossly overpowered opponent. Good work.

I think we need a thread about how Tau players can have fun against Space Wolves now

Another way to kill broadsides is drop pod plasma weapons. You'll hurt him on a 2+ and he won't have armour saves.

And be sure he'll change tactics from now on.

I tried a Rhino rush list against Tau once. Turn 1, even with Night Fighting on, I lost every single Rhino and Land Speeder in my list before I even got a turn to move.

Tau firepower is insane. Like others have said, Drop Pods.

Even with the Pods, you need to be careful not to overextend, and you need to make sure to nuke the targets you intend to nuke. Anything that survives will outmaneuver you and surgically destroy you.