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WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen but stand back and film it on their phones. With over a dozen witnesses not one had the sense to put a stop to this?


http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/panama-city-spring-break-gang-rape-case/

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/third-arrest-made-in-videotaped-rape-on-florida-spring-break-beach/ar-AAb3Gyh?ocid=mailsignout

 stanman wrote:
WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen

It's human nature. When there are enough people around, individual responsibility to act is diffused.

See Ouze's link. The Bystander Effect is a very, very real thing. In fact, it is something that happens without you thinking about it.

At least those videos are leading to arrests.

 Ouze wrote:

 stanman wrote:
WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen

It's human nature. When there are enough people around, individual responsibility to act is diffused.

uh, thanks for that, I had no idea this was a very real psychological behaviour. The human mind really is interesting.

Yes, it's fascinating.

It's also handy to know about because if you ever need help and you're aware of the phenomenon, you know how to break it: request assistance from someone specific, which concentrates responsibility: "Hey, you in the brown jacket, help".

 Ouze wrote:

 stanman wrote:
WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen

It's human nature. When there are enough people around, individual responsibility to act is diffused.

Bystander effect is an excuse thats all. In the same way that rape is a sexual urge. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT.

I remember the last time I saw gak like this, a gang beating on a black guy in central London, with crowds watching. I saw red. Dropped my bags and marched strait towards them. They backed off as they saw me, all four of them. Just as well really while I am a big man I punch like a kitten.

Those sick feths who stand by with their cameras, during a rape, no excuses, no sympathy. Name and shame.

 Orlanth wrote:


Bystander effect is an excuse thats all. In the same way that rape is a sexual urge. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT.

Despite both starting with "Ex-", explanation and excuse aren't the same.

 Orlanth wrote:
Bystander effect is an excuse thats all.

IF you say so. But I think it's a pretty textbook example of a breakdown on steps one and 2 of:

Due to these five characteristics, bystanders go through cognitive and behavioural processes:

Notice that something is going on
Interpret the situation as being an emergency

I mean, its possible all of those witnesses were absolutely sociopathic human monsters, but doesn't that seem a bit... statistically unlikely?

I remember watching the horrific footage of that soldier getting killed in London, and I thought to myself, if only this was the USA, somebody would have opened fire and saved the day.

I'm not going to say that guns could solve every situation, but sometimes I do wonder...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I remember watching the horrific footage of that soldier getting killed in London, and I thought to myself, if only this was the USA, somebody would have opened fire and saved the day.

I'm not going to say that guns could solve every situation, but sometimes I do wonder...

Contrary to the popular conception elsewhere in the world, very few Americans are toting guns around with us. In general, the police are armed and the citizenry aren't carrying.

 Carlson793 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I remember watching the horrific footage of that soldier getting killed in London, and I thought to myself, if only this was the USA, somebody would have opened fire and saved the day.

I'm not going to say that guns could solve every situation, but sometimes I do wonder...

Contrary to the popular conception elsewhere in the world, very few Americans are toting guns around with us. In general, the police are armed and the citizenry aren't carrying.

What about open carry? I thought that was on the rise?

I agree that it's wrong to stereotype the USA as a gun mad nation, but whenever I see footage from Texas, everybody's walking around with at least three assault rifles on their backs.

That might just be Texas.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:


Bystander effect is an excuse thats all. In the same way that rape is a sexual urge. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT.

Despite both starting with "Ex-", explanation and excuse aren't the same.

Its both.

Sexual urges are universal, but how many resort to rape.
Standing aside is a societal response marked by the society involved.

 Ouze wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Bystander effect is an excuse thats all.

IF you say so. But I think it's a pretty textbook example of a breakdown on steps one and 2 of:

Due to these five characteristics, bystanders go through cognitive and behavioural processes:

Notice that something is going on
Interpret the situation as being an emergency

I mean, its possible all of those witnesses were absolutely sociopathic human monsters, but doesn't that seem a bit... statistically unlikely?

However quite often you get an incident without a bystander effect, where everyone rushes to help, or when you have some bystanders and others help.
Its a conscious moral action. I have witnessed accidents and violent crime and never settled into a bystander effect. I help or move on, and only move on when my help isnt needed.
I draw the line when self preservation becomes a factor, I witnessed a violent mugging, with the victim pleading for help, and walked on by as if I didn't care, then broke into a sprint when around the corner to get to the nearest payphone and called the police. It was outside a kebab shop in Hackney When I came back the muggers and victim were all gone, the people and around the kebab shop accused me for walking by, though they just stood there themselves, and I got no help from them as to the direction traveled. They also didnt help the police with any descriptions. The saw me 'walk by' but didn't see the attack for some reason.
I only walked by because I knew I couldn't handle this one, there were a lot of them and the dynamic f the crowd was different, none of them looked like they would do anything even if someone else did.

Being human is mandatory, being scum is optional.

The very fact that they were quick to accuse me, while they themselves did less than nothing, indicates that 'diffused responsibility' had nothing to do with it, they didn't care at all.
There is a big difference between a crowd that wants to act and is too scared and a crowd that is standing there enjoying seeing someone else suffer.

 Ouze wrote:

 stanman wrote:
WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen

It's human nature. When there are enough people around, individual responsibility to act is diffused.

Very true. While it's unsettling and hard to believe that sort of response happens.

Another example of it:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/03/11/50-years-later-kitty-genovese-murder-still-grips-nyc-nation/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

A woman gets attacked right outside the door to her apartment building, screams for help as she's being stabbed and over 3 dozen people do nothing to help her.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 stanman wrote:
WTF is wrong with people who'd stand by and not only let this happen

It's human nature. When there are enough people around, individual responsibility to act is diffused.

Very true. While it's unsettling and hard to believe that sort of response happens.

Another example of it:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/03/11/50-years-later-kitty-genovese-murder-still-grips-nyc-nation/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

A woman gets attacked right outside the door to her apartment building, screams for help as she's being stabbed and over 3 dozen people do nothing to help her.

Of course that was mostly public perception, as the article itself states.

However, a 2007 study found many of the purported facts about the murder to be unfounded.[46] The study found "no evidence for the presence of 38 witnesses, or that witnesses observed the murder, or that witnesses remained inactive"

None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety. Because of the layout of the complex and the fact that the attacks took place in different locations, no witness saw the entire sequence of events. Most only heard portions of the incident without realizing its seriousness, a few saw only small portions of the initial assault, and no witnesses directly saw the final attack and rape, in an exterior hallway.[1] Additionally, after the initial attack punctured her lungs, leading to her eventual death from asphyxiation, it is unlikely that Genovese was able to scream at any volume.[48] Only one witness, Joseph Fink, was aware she was stabbed in the first attack, and only Karl Ross (the neighbor who called police) was aware of it in the second attack. Many were entirely unaware that an assault or homicide was in progress; some thought that what they saw or heard was a lovers' quarrel, a drunken brawl, or a group of friends leaving the bar when Moseley first approached Genovese

Alcohol, promiscuous behaviour and likely drugs.

I mean it's probably not a sensible idea to pass out among men who partake in such things.

It's not victim blaming it's just common sense.

The people involved are disgusting but having looked at "Spring Break" pictures it's hardly surprising.

"It's not victim blaming but..."

It is.

Hopefully all of the parties involved will get arrested and spend ample time in jail. The poor girl...

 Soladrin wrote:
"It's not victim blaming but..."

It is.

Fall asleep among rapists.

Get raped.

?

It's just what's going to happen.

I hope it encourages people to drink less and choose the company they want to be around.

 Medium of Death wrote:
It's not victim blaming it's just common sense.

Still checking that bingo card, man. It is like the textbook example of victim blaming.

Well we can either take the cuddly and fluffy option that you lot are advocating or we can encourage people to not get piss drunk and fall asleep among people they don't know.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Well we can either take the cuddly and fluffy option that you lot are advocating or we can encourage people to not get piss drunk and fall asleep among people they don't know.

My “fluffy option” is to encourage people not to get piss drunk and rape people they do not know. Or people they do know, for that matter.
Honestly, I would encourage people to never get piss drunk. But that is something else entirely. Here the problem is the piss drunk rapists, not the piss drunk victim.

Don't rape people.

Don't wonder off alone drunk.

Don't fall asleep on bourbon street if you don't want to smell like pee.

 Ouze wrote:
Yes, it's fascinating.

It's also handy to know about because if you ever need help and you're aware of the phenomenon, you know how to break it: request assistance from someone specific, which concentrates responsibility: "Hey, you in the brown jacket, help".

Also shout "fire." People tend to respond to that more.

Additionally spring break violence has been substantially on the rise, especially for a subset, many who aren't actual college students.

The condemnation of the rapists is so obvious that I don't need to repeat myself or feel that I should even need to state it.

Much in the same way you teach people not to steal yet people still do it.

What I'm saying is that we have people within our towns/cities/countries that pray upon those in a weak or disadvantaged position regardless of how morally reprehensible their actions are.

Prevention is better than cure.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Well we can either take the cuddly and fluffy option that you lot are advocating or we can encourage people to not get piss drunk and fall asleep among people they don't know.

Leaving your front door open doesn't mean you should be robbed. It's highly irresponsible, but you don't actively want people to come in and steal your TV.

Three of the rapist were arrested and from being said the victim was rufeed(?) or drugged.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Well we can either take the cuddly and fluffy option that you lot are advocating or we can encourage people to not get piss drunk and fall asleep among people they don't know.

Leaving your front door open doesn't mean you should be robbed. It's highly irresponsible, but you don't actively want people to come in and steal your TV.

I'll just quote what I said directly above your post to answer you.

 Medium of Death wrote:
The condemnation of the rapists is so obvious that I don't need to repeat myself or feel that I should even need to state it.

Much in the same way you teach people not to steal yet people still do it.

What I'm saying is that we have people within our towns/cities/countries that pray upon those in a weak or disadvantaged position regardless of how morally reprehensible their actions are.

Prevention is better than cure.

That's what I was getting at.

She worked in the rapists' hands, yet she isn't to blame.

Bystander effect is one thing, but people are also sometimes just afraid that they'll get in trouble if they do something. I've seen a few of those cases myself while working as uniformed security on a car district (that is, I drive from object to object and check whatever I'm supposed to check there).

People see the obvious marks of a burglary at 0500, or they observe that the guy who just downed four shots of whisky jumps into a car and drives away. Sometimes it's even a medical emergency like a girl ODing on party drugs or a bum passed out in the snow. But calling the emergency number means you're responsible until ambulance or police arrive, and you might have to give testimony. They'll happily tell me about it when they see me opening a gate or something, despite the fact they're the ones who saw something. Guy's got a uniform, he's got to know what to do.