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 Ratius wrote:

Adapt and evolve tactics accordingly.

Your suggestions on my 100 footslogging orkses, stormboyz and kommandoes adapting to scatmen that statistically shoot them down in 2 turns even in good cover being completely uncatchable and out of range.

And don't tell me i've got a bad list or something - it goes toe to toe with the most powerful stuff so far cause it utilises positioning, board controle and area denial tools while being numerous enough to hold ground.

Of course people are not happy that one badly designed unit automatically invalidates their entire favorite army and that they have to "adapt and evolve" - means buy tons of stuff they might not particularly like to specifically counter (probably) this one unit.

It boils down to Pay-To-Win. And it leads to people wanting to buy even less stuff instead. It just usually works the opposite way.

I for one am not worried with both my Tau and Imperial Guard and look forward to the challenges the new book will bring.

Hahaha, that made me laugh so hard. Sorry man



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And obviously Ork are no match for this kind of madness. I gladly sold mine 1 week ago(different reason, but that new upcoming codex tell me I did the right choice lol)

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm more willing to bet that the Jetbike sprues were developed and finished well before the new rules were written up... hence, with every bike able to take an upgrade already in place on the sprues, the rules were basically forced in to the unit entry regardless of whether anyone thought a unit of 10 fast moving heavy weapons was a "good idea" or not.

Are they likely undercosted? Almost certainly. Are 40-60 Scatterbikes going to auto-win every single tournament from here on out? Of course not!

The 'sky is falling' crowd seem to put forward this notion that suddenly Eldar armies are going to be throwing out highly accurate 160/S6 shots a turn...
while Jinking for a 3++ save...
and still fielding 3-4+ Serpents filled with Fire Dragons & Wraiths galore...
with Farseers always rolling up Guide/Misfortune/Fortune for their powers...
Warlocks always having the perfect power in support despite being Lv1 psykers...
and those 40-60 bikes will always be able to comfortably zip around, make their shots, and then dive back into magical LoS blocking terrain and never take a single shot in return...

Something about the above just doesn't seem plausible for some reason, but then, maybe I'm just some dumb White Knight, TFG WaaC's Eldar player? (which would be hilarious, considering my main army is Tzeentch Daemons + CSM's. )

Even if it WAS forced on the rules team to give the option for a special on each, they could easily modify the gun costs, or the UNIT ITSELF so the rules would not be so slowed.
But as they are eldar-special treatment. every race have bikes give +1T, eldars? +1T and +2 to armor. just like they are the only ones with meaningful stat boost for their 10 point sarges, so they get bikes that do far more. pay less, get more.
No reason why a flimsy eldar NON SOLDIER (guardians are MILITIA. bakers and musicians-not soldiers) has a statline that will embarrass a SM, and the equipment to embarrass a tau battlesuit.
Nothing on the guardian jetbike makes sense, and it was overpowered as it is, but simply overshadowed by just how much MORE overpowered the WS was. the new added option of infinite special guns is insult to injury.


And no, they do not jink for a 3++, they already have a 3+, they simply has the OPTION to jink for a 3++.on top of JSJ that guardes them further.
Not that they need to bother guarding themselves, given that they will be 3 man squads spammed. no reason to bother with bigger teams now.

They are still fielding FD in WS and wraiths because the bikes are so damn cheap you CAN do so. you can pack 6 units of 6 in under 1000 points. that's 36 scatter lasers for 144 S6 shots. taking any more than that is pointless-anything that CAN die to scatterlasers, is dead by now.

Ditto on farseers. cheap enough for what they accomplish-not that they are really needed given that jetbikes hit often enough on their own and cheap enough to not worth defensive powers. just taking them as minimal HQ requirements.

Warlocks? I don't even care for them. nor bother for them.

And zipping around with ease taking no shots-nobody says that. but they won't take nearly enough given how much they dish out, and how little they cost.



Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

Anything with Alpha-Strike capabilities will hurt Jetbikes. Drop Pods full of special weapons will murder them - Command Squads especially so. Any kind of Barrage weapon is also a serious threat, such as Wyverns and Thunderfires.
Other Jetbikes such as Dark Eldar, Clowns & Screamers will eat Kraftworld bikes in combat with ease. Necrons versions can give their guns Ignores Cover and have Res Protocols to boot. (typically on a 4+ for giggles.)

Orks, Sisters & Grey Knights will probably have the most problems, (Orks especially so due to lack of allies), with Tyranids likely needing to rely even more so on Dakka Flyrants & their new Pods. Everyone else has readily accessible viable counters.

Yes, Eldar bikes are yet another 'too good' unit, but they're hardly the worst offenders, nor are they as comically game breaking as things like 60-80 man Seer Congresses, Siren Lords, Durp Quake, etc...
They're flat out bonkers in terms of movement and their potential shooting output, but they fold like a wet paper bag in assaults, nor can they tackle av13/14 without help. That's a weakness right there btw!

The Formation rule apparently gives a one use per game ability to give the Shred rule to all Shuriken weaponry in the squad. So if they load up on Scatlas, they're no longer Obsec, and they get 0 Formation bonus out of the bikes.
The Formation also includes some additional 'taxes' such as being forced to take a Vyper squadron, which Eldar players consider to be quite mediocre on the whole. (not saying Vypers are crap, but it is still a tax.)

The Windrider battlehost gives you shred once per game when firing shuriken weapons.

So rather than the eldar Viper being used for this kind of heavy weapon, we get to lump it on a normal jetbike?
Can Marines mount plasma cannons, heavy-bolters and multi-meltas so I do not need my attack bikes any more?
Truly a break from how things were usually fielded.

So by the look of things I have the following options:

1) Quietly cry in a corner and then play my obviously inferior force because I am a fluff monkey.
2) Rage quit because GW has no clue!!!
3) Buy a new Eldar force with jet bikes right away!!!!
4) Vow never to play Eldar again.

This covers it ok?

I think I will pick #1 since I do tend to like drama.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

Anything with Alpha-Strike capabilities will hurt Jetbikes. Drop Pods full of special weapons will murder them - Command Squads especially so. Any kind of Barrage weapon is also a serious threat, such as Wyverns and Thunderfires.
Other Jetbikes such as Dark Eldar, Clowns & Screamers will eat Kraftworld bikes in combat with ease. Necrons versions can give their guns Ignores Cover and have Res Protocols to boot. (typically on a 4+ for giggles.)

Orks, Sisters & Grey Knights will probably have the most problems, (Orks especially so due to lack of allies), with Tyranids likely needing to rely even more so on Dakka Flyrants & their new Pods. Everyone else has readily accessible viable counters.

Yes, Eldar bikes are yet another 'too good' unit, but they're hardly the worst offenders, nor are they as comically game breaking as things like 60-80 man Seer Congresses, Siren Lords, Durp Quake, etc...
They're flat out bonkers in terms of movement and their potential shooting output, but they fold like a wet paper bag in assaults, nor can they tackle av13/14 without help. That's a weakness right there btw!

The Formation rule apparently gives a one use per game ability to give the Shred rule to all Shuriken weaponry in the squad. So if they load up on Scatlas, they're no longer Obsec, and they get 0 Formation bonus out of the bikes.
The Formation also includes some additional 'taxes' such as being forced to take a Vyper squadron, which Eldar players consider to be quite mediocre on the whole. (not saying Vypers are crap, but it is still a tax.)

Weakness in melee only matters if the unit can be caught. AV13+ can be handled elsewhere as everything else can be shot. This isn't something where the only things are Jetbikes. The problem is that all the weaknesses are easily covered.
Also CAD is going to be the way to go. OS and no taxes outweighs the benefit of Shred on Shuriken stuff when either mass fire or the AT takes care of it.
Come on, not even YOU can defend this gak, 626.

The new jetbikes look like sharks, sharks with lasers strapped to their heads...(bellies).

Seriously, I am glad to see these new models, having seen a picture of something like them years back. But how many scatter lasers?

Someone posted a suggestion about a physical letter. I agree. If you have a concern that can be demonstrated by comparing stats versus points costs, stuff like that, demonstrate it. Otherwise, the Eldar have apparently been to Craftworld Black Library and found a trove of weapons/wraithbone tech or what not. If it can be shown across the board that these stand out, in a class by themselves, I think they will listen. Otherwise, I think the expectation will be: How are you going to deal with them? (And I really wonder if people use a good amount of terrain). I would also include how they stand out in each category: models fielded in squadrons, models fielding heavy weapons, the troops category, etc. Didn't they use to be Fast Attack? I hope it goes well because no one wants to win or lose a lop-sided game. I'm not saying it is, but if demonstrated that it is, well then, something should be done.

 Blacksails wrote:
We don't have every single detail of the codex, so we couldn't possibly form an informed opinion.

We must have faith in GW's superior balancing ability.

What could a bunch of random forum goers know about game design anyways?

ImAGeek, you're probably a nerd anyways.

Is this sarcasm? "Superior Balancing abilitiy"?

 Lockark wrote:


Is this sarcasm? "Superior Balancing abilitiy"?

Would you expect anything less of me?

 Lockark wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
We don't have every single detail of the codex, so we couldn't possibly form an informed opinion.

We must have faith in GW's superior balancing ability.

What could a bunch of random forum goers know about game design anyways?

ImAGeek, you're probably a nerd anyways.

Is this sarcasm? "Superior Balancing abilitiy"?

Yeah, his post was entirely sarcastic. Well, I'm assuming the calling me a nerd was (although not wrong)

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
We don't have every single detail of the codex, so we couldn't possibly form an informed opinion.

We must have faith in GW's superior balancing ability.

What could a bunch of random forum goers know about game design anyways?

ImAGeek, you're probably a nerd anyways.

Is this sarcasm? "Superior Balancing abilitiy"?

Yeah, his post was entirely sarcastic. Well, I'm assuming the calling me a nerd was (although not wrong)

We're on an internet forum, discussing little plastic soldiers that we move around whilst making (or imagining) pew-pew noises.

Who are these nerds you speak of?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
We don't have every single detail of the codex, so we couldn't possibly form an informed opinion.

We must have faith in GW's superior balancing ability.

What could a bunch of random forum goers know about game design anyways?

ImAGeek, you're probably a nerd anyways.

Is this sarcasm? "Superior Balancing abilitiy"?

Yeah, his post was entirely sarcastic. Well, I'm assuming the calling me a nerd was (although not wrong)

We're on an internet forum, discussing little plastic soldiers that we move around whilst making (or imagining) pew-pew noises.

Who are these nerds you speak of?

Ha, when you put it like that... Like I said, he wasn't wrong

 ImAGeek wrote:


Yeah, his post was entirely sarcastic. Well, I'm assuming the calling me a nerd was (although not wrong)

Definite sarcasm.

You're still a nerd though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

Anything with Alpha-Strike capabilities will hurt Jetbikes. Drop Pods full of special weapons will murder them - Command Squads especially so. Any kind of Barrage weapon is also a serious threat, such as Wyverns and Thunderfires.
Other Jetbikes such as Dark Eldar, Clowns & Screamers will eat Kraftworld bikes in combat with ease. Necrons versions can give their guns Ignores Cover and have Res Protocols to boot. (typically on a 4+ for giggles.)

Orks, Sisters & Grey Knights will probably have the most problems, (Orks especially so due to lack of allies), with Tyranids likely needing to rely even more so on Dakka Flyrants & their new Pods. Everyone else has readily accessible viable counters.

Yes, Eldar bikes are yet another 'too good' unit, but they're hardly the worst offenders, nor are they as comically game breaking as things like 60-80 man Seer Congresses, Siren Lords, Durp Quake, etc...
They're flat out bonkers in terms of movement and their potential shooting output, but they fold like a wet paper bag in assaults, nor can they tackle av13/14 without help. That's a weakness right there btw!

The Formation rule apparently gives a one use per game ability to give the Shred rule to all Shuriken weaponry in the squad. So if they load up on Scatlas, they're no longer Obsec, and they get 0 Formation bonus out of the bikes.
The Formation also includes some additional 'taxes' such as being forced to take a Vyper squadron, which Eldar players consider to be quite mediocre on the whole. (not saying Vypers are crap, but it is still a tax.)

Weakness in melee only matters if the unit can be caught. AV13+ can be handled elsewhere as everything else can be shot. This isn't something where the only things are Jetbikes. The problem is that all the weaknesses are easily covered.
Also CAD is going to be the way to go. OS and no taxes outweighs the benefit of Shred on Shuriken stuff when either mass fire or the AT takes care of it.
Come on, not even YOU can defend this gak, 626.

I'm not defending it as being balanced, I just don't think it's worth completely losing my gak over as there are definite holes to be exploited, especially against the bikes themselves.

A lot of the Chicken Littleing is banging on about how Eldar will now field 40-60 Scatlas bikes, (1080 - 1620pts), plus at least one unit of Wraithguard in a Serpent, (currently 275pts minimum), plus Dragons in a Serpent, (currently 225pts minimum), AND still field a Wraithknight or two, (295 x2 minimum)...
And that's not counting any HQ's yet!

They won't get all that in a 'normal' list. Likely they'll now get a pair of MSU bike squads, plus a single large squad, and then fill out with HQ's plus a smattering of other things.

It'll be very, very good, with the new Jetbikes joining the ranks of other 'too good' units, but Eldar lists won't suddenly be able to do absolutely everything all at the same time, nor will they suddenly end the Tournament circuit. (in fact, being LoW, Wraithknights will likely become 0-1 as don't most events limit LoW slots to begin with?)

"It'll be very, very good, with the new Jetbikes joining the ranks of other 'too good' unit"

For those of us lacking "too good" units, I think it's justified to lose our gak. At least Necrons let me pretend I'm playing before I lose.

 Blacksails wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:


Yeah, his post was entirely sarcastic. Well, I'm assuming the calling me a nerd was (although not wrong)

Definite sarcasm.

You're still a nerd though.

And now I can fund your detractors with the evidence they've waited for....The jig is up Blacksails, you've insulted people.

You caught me!

Though to be fair, ImAGeek insults someone every time he (?) posts.

With a username like that, he's just insulting himself every time!

I'm assuming Geek is male, correct if wrong

I think I'll need days to clear my head before constucting a letter. Otherwise emotions may come through.

So, I looked up all the buffs that Eldar are getting. Wonder why that's the case.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I know it won't really do any good, but if we outline the serious imbalance with any other unit, and they get enough concerned emails reminding them what happened with fantasy and how many customers that lost them, do you think there is the slimmest chance they may actually discuss it amongst themselves? Or am I being naive? I mean this is so much further than serpent shields, knights and wraiths that it's beyond the pale, all of those had some effective counter for the points they cost (or lacked really serious damage output or range, like the wraiths) This WILL be the anvil that broke the camels back.
It's a desperate reaction but I really don't know what else to do. I, like many of you, have invested thousands and thousands of pounds in this hobby, I can't just walk away. But I can't see the competitive game being 40k anymore, I see it being The War in Heven. I have plenty of Necrons but that's not the point.
If you bought a 5 star time share and they reduced the standard to 3 stars without giving you the choice, you'd be a bit miffed right?

This is what I sent them, entitled "Great Job GW"

You guys have honestly done a great job. The game is now balanced, the fanbase is restored, and prices are down to boot!
Ha thats a joke. Eldar will now dominate all competitive play style. Entire threads are devoted to how bad and terrible your company is at producing rules. Whole forums are pooling together to stop playing 40k. And I agree. Its gone to far. Its been gone to far for much to long. 1) Your bundles. Total trash. No discount. If you wanted to support your fan base (and your economic benefit I might add) then you would offer a 10-15% discount. 2) your prices are insane. Did you know by lowering prices, more people would want to join, play, and pay for 40k? Did you know the biggest turn off for 40k is the price (second being the rules)? 3) Your rules. No balance. Listen to the community. Your balance is terrible. Sisters of Battle, chaos space marines, space wolves, blood angels, and dark eldar are all overwhelmingly underpowered compared to the top powerhouses of 40k. 4) Have some interaction with fanbase. You seem distant and unconnected, which you are, but this makes your fan base callous to you and disprove of what you do.
The moneysheeps will run out eventually GamesWorkshop. And when you do we will all laugh.
As for me I have given up 40k. Thanks for the pain gdubs.

I wish I had a video of how hard they laughed at that.

GW is a plane in a nose dive. You have a parachute under your seat. You can jump and leave it all behind or sit quietly and hope they pull it out. What you don't have the option of doing is taking the stick and saving it. Get out if you don't like it, I did, or put your hands up and try and say WEEEE! Like you mean it.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
I know it won't really do any good, but if we outline the serious imbalance with any other unit, and they get enough concerned emails reminding them what happened with fantasy and how many customers that lost them, do you think there is the slimmest chance they may actually discuss it amongst themselves? Or am I being naive? I mean this is so much further than serpent shields, knights and wraiths that it's beyond the pale, all of those had some effective counter for the points they cost (or lacked really serious damage output or range, like the wraiths) This WILL be the anvil that broke the camels back.
It's a desperate reaction but I really don't know what else to do. I, like many of you, have invested thousands and thousands of pounds in this hobby, I can't just walk away. But I can't see the competitive game being 40k anymore, I see it being The War in Heven. I have plenty of Necrons but that's not the point.
If you bought a 5 star time share and they reduced the standard to 3 stars without giving you the choice, you'd be a bit miffed right?

This is what I sent them, entitled "Great Job GW"

You guys have honestly done a great job. The game is now balanced, the fanbase is restored, and prices are down to boot!
Ha thats a joke. Eldar will now dominate all competitive play style. Entire threads are devoted to how bad and terrible your company is at producing rules. Whole forums are pooling together to stop playing 40k. And I agree. Its gone to far. Its been gone to far for much to long. 1) Your bundles. Total trash. No discount. If you wanted to support your fan base (and your economic benefit I might add) then you would offer a 10-15% discount. 2) your prices are insane. Did you know by lowering prices, more people would want to join, play, and pay for 40k? Did you know the biggest turn off for 40k is the price (second being the rules)? 3) Your rules. No balance. Listen to the community. Your balance is terrible. Sisters of Battle, chaos space marines, space wolves, blood angels, and dark eldar are all overwhelmingly underpowered compared to the top powerhouses of 40k. 4) Have some interaction with fanbase. You seem distant and unconnected, which you are, but this makes your fan base callous to you and disprove of what you do.
The moneysheeps will run out eventually GamesWorkshop. And when you do we will all laugh.
As for me I have given up 40k. Thanks for the pain gdubs.

Excellent!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

Anything with Alpha-Strike capabilities will hurt Jetbikes. Drop Pods full of special weapons will murder them - Command Squads especially so. Any kind of Barrage weapon is also a serious threat, such as Wyverns and Thunderfires.
Other Jetbikes such as Dark Eldar, Clowns & Screamers will eat Kraftworld bikes in combat with ease. Necrons versions can give their guns Ignores Cover and have Res Protocols to boot. (typically on a 4+ for giggles.)

Orks, Sisters & Grey Knights will probably have the most problems, (Orks especially so due to lack of allies), with Tyranids likely needing to rely even more so on Dakka Flyrants & their new Pods. Everyone else has readily accessible viable counters.

Yes, Eldar bikes are yet another 'too good' unit, but they're hardly the worst offenders, nor are they as comically game breaking as things like 60-80 man Seer Congresses, Siren Lords, Durp Quake, etc...
They're flat out bonkers in terms of movement and their potential shooting output, but they fold like a wet paper bag in assaults, nor can they tackle av13/14 without help. That's a weakness right there btw!

The Formation rule apparently gives a one use per game ability to give the Shred rule to all Shuriken weaponry in the squad. So if they load up on Scatlas, they're no longer Obsec, and they get 0 Formation bonus out of the bikes.
The Formation also includes some additional 'taxes' such as being forced to take a Vyper squadron, which Eldar players consider to be quite mediocre on the whole. (not saying Vypers are crap, but it is still a tax.)

Weakness in melee only matters if the unit can be caught. AV13+ can be handled elsewhere as everything else can be shot. This isn't something where the only things are Jetbikes. The problem is that all the weaknesses are easily covered.
Also CAD is going to be the way to go. OS and no taxes outweighs the benefit of Shred on Shuriken stuff when either mass fire or the AT takes care of it.
Come on, not even YOU can defend this gak, 626.

I'm not defending it as being balanced, I just don't think it's worth completely losing my gak over as there are definite holes to be exploited, especially against the bikes themselves.

A lot of the Chicken Littleing is banging on about how Eldar will now field 40-60 Scatlas bikes, (1080 - 1620pts), plus at least one unit of Wraithguard in a Serpent, (currently 275pts minimum), plus Dragons in a Serpent, (currently 225pts minimum), AND still field a Wraithknight or two, (295 x2 minimum)...
And that's not counting any HQ's yet!

They won't get all that in a 'normal' list. Likely they'll now get a pair of MSU bike squads, plus a single large squad, and then fill out with HQ's plus a smattering of other things.

It'll be very, very good, with the new Jetbikes joining the ranks of other 'too good' units, but Eldar lists won't suddenly be able to do absolutely everything all at the same time, nor will they suddenly end the Tournament circuit. (in fact, being LoW, Wraithknights will likely become 0-1 as don't most events limit LoW slots to begin with?)

They won't NEED 40 of them. 30-36 is going to be less than 1000 points. In a normal competitive game setting (1850) they just need to have dedicated AT, since the volume of S6 shots is going to take care of everything else. Easily allied in with Dark Eldar (someone made mention of WWP Archon + the new Wraithguard. *Shudders*). It isn't hard to fill that specific gap, and the people suggesting Land Raiders as a hard counter are really not thinking. At all. HQ will just be a minor tax at that point really.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yaknow. 7th was petty damn good balance wise so far. Even Necrons were not too bad.

But now that I know the gun still has that range, power and shots - it's outright ridiculous and every intern should be able to see it...


Here is to hoping WD got something seriously wrong.

Not too bad? Necrons were not too bad! The +4 reanimation makes charging zerkers in to a warrior squad go exactly like this, "So, my LR is right in his face and the zerkers are in it so should I assault the warriors? No to risky, Ill kill every single one and then they will just get back up or maybe they won't TOO MUCH RANDOM FOR MEEEEEE!" To get back on topic, I'm going to wait till it is released. For all we know jet bikes could become the new chosen, good, but WAAAAYY to expensive for what they do.

Jetbikes are like Chosen, except:

Troops (without having to play BL)

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more mobile

Tougher (thanks to jink option)

Putting out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more damage

Chosen at least have better LD, I guess, and are better in a melee that they will never reach?...

SAD Games Workshop Nerfed the Ork Dakkajet for firing 9 str 6 shots then on a waagh turn only dropping 18 shots to 9 shots and 12 shots on a waagh turn ..(so for the same 270 points thats two dakkjets) that die far easier than jetbikes do ...
DO they not learn

I enjoy the new models.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I wish I had a video of how hard they laughed at that.

GW is a plane in a nose dive. You have a parachute under your seat. You can jump and leave it all behind or sit quietly and hope they pull it out. What you don't have the option of doing is taking the stick and saving it. Get out if you don't like it, I did, or put your hands up and try and say WEEEE! Like you mean it.

Pretty much this. Although you missed the 3rd option: do both. Get out, then put your hands up and say WEEE!!! as the plane dives ever deeper, and truly enjoy it.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Yes, the jetbike lists will be beatable.
But they will not be fair. at all.
Nothing about the jetbikes is fair, or balanced.
They cost too little, do too much, have no meaningful weakness to speak of, useful against everything and anyone, no limitations on how much you can bring, not even "tax" of having to bring other things with it.
Its pisspoor design, that showed zero effort on the rule team's side.
They have ONE job, so they need to do it. because honestly, I have no idea why they are getting paid if this is the quality of their work.

And that's before we know what further buffs the windrider formation gives.

Anything with Alpha-Strike capabilities will hurt Jetbikes. Drop Pods full of special weapons will murder them - Command Squads especially so. Any kind of Barrage weapon is also a serious threat, such as Wyverns and Thunderfires.
Other Jetbikes such as Dark Eldar, Clowns & Screamers will eat Kraftworld bikes in combat with ease. Necrons versions can give their guns Ignores Cover and have Res Protocols to boot. (typically on a 4+ for giggles.)

Orks, Sisters & Grey Knights will probably have the most problems, (Orks especially so due to lack of allies), with Tyranids likely needing to rely even more so on Dakka Flyrants & their new Pods. Everyone else has readily accessible viable counters.

Yes, Eldar bikes are yet another 'too good' unit, but they're hardly the worst offenders, nor are they as comically game breaking as things like 60-80 man Seer Congresses, Siren Lords, Durp Quake, etc...
They're flat out bonkers in terms of movement and their potential shooting output, but they fold like a wet paper bag in assaults, nor can they tackle av13/14 without help. That's a weakness right there btw!

The Formation rule apparently gives a one use per game ability to give the Shred rule to all Shuriken weaponry in the squad. So if they load up on Scatlas, they're no longer Obsec, and they get 0 Formation bonus out of the bikes.
The Formation also includes some additional 'taxes' such as being forced to take a Vyper squadron, which Eldar players consider to be quite mediocre on the whole. (not saying Vypers are crap, but it is still a tax.)

What does loading up on scatter lasers have to do with being obsec? Also, you seem to have it backwards. Taking the formation and loading up on shuriken weapons is what makes you lose obsec. Taking a CAD full of scatter bikes is what gives you obsec and how cheesy players are going to play this list 99.9% of the time. No vyper tax for gaining shred on weapons you don't take anyway and you keep obsec.