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 Frazzled wrote:

And the kid doesn't want his friends and classmates to be mislead by idiots with an agenda to push, so he brings in scientific evidence to show how these people are wrong. That makes him an donkey-cave?

Yes, yes it does. Like his mother he's trying to pick a fight with a teacher. News flash, no one gives a . In fact, almost no one was probably awake in the class until he started being a butthead. If you disagree with something in class...too bad. Be quiet, regurgiate the nonsense, get an A. if not, get an F. But just shut up already. No one cares what you think dill weed.

So asking a teacher to back up their claims with evidence is picking a fight? Guess I shouldn't have corrected my GCSE science teacher on Newton's Laws, then...

As for people probably not being awake, now the kid is an donkey-cave for actually resulting in his peers engage with their education in this topic?

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
The article's narrative: My son took a proactive approach to taking his education in his own hands and stood up to the hierarchy "Footloose Style" for his good and the good of all his classmates. I'm so proud.

The actual story: Know-it-all, helicopter parent with a bone to pick disrupts a teacher while he's conducting the sex-ed program he's legally not allowed to alter for risk of losing his fething job.

Should the school teach abstinence only? feth no. That's dumb.

Is it the teacher's fault? feth no. That's the politicians getting involved in the fething schools.

Do I have any respect for this lady? feth no. She should pick on the school board, the state legislature, or even the principal. But leave the fething teacher alone. What-A-Bitch, indeed.

Kronk has the absolute way of it.

Um...

I disagree.

While I'm shocked that this school would let a parent sit-in this... but, then again it's reasonable they'd probably make exceptions simply given of the subject matter.

Couple things kronk, frazzled, et. el... Feth the teachers and Feth the schools. They may be nice people, who has careers and the schools may be doing their best in the interests for the students. But, again, it's the parents, and ONLY the parents are responsible for their kids education and wellbeing. IMO, she was absolutely right to make a scene, because sometimes, it may be the only way to jar some sense into these people.

*need I remind you what my step dad did for me when I got in trouble in school?

In other word... be like Jesus:

 kronk wrote:
The article's narrative: My son took a proactive approach to taking his education in his own hands and stood up to the hierarchy "Footloose Style" for his good and the good of all his classmates. I'm so proud.

The actual story: Know-it-all, helicopter parent with a bone to pick disrupts a teacher while he's conducting the sex-ed program he's legally not allowed to alter for risk of losing his fething job.

Should the school teach abstinence only? feth no. That's dumb.

Is it the teacher's fault? feth no. That's the politicians getting involved in the fething schools.

Do I have any respect for this lady? feth no. She should pick on the school board, the state legislature, or even the principal. But leave the fething teacher alone. What-A-Bitch, indeed.

1) She did not disrupt the class, she only spoke to the teacher after the class had finished.
2) Her child took it upon himself to research the topic beforehand, any competent teacher worth their pay would not just wave away a child actually engaging in the subject at hand, even if that child had a viewpoint which was contrary to their own. An incompetent teacher has no place in the classroom.
3) It was not a normal teacher but two guest speakers, brought in to basically tell a load of anecdotes with no scientific basis or evidence to any of it.

For example, their claim that the FDA allows 1 out of every 400 boxes of condoms to be completely defective, which is a 0.25% chance of getting a pack of completely defective condoms. This is completely false.

The FDA requires at least 996 out of every 1000 condoms on average to pass a water leak test. So there's a 0.4% chance of a single condom being defective. Now, lets assume now that the person is buying a small pack of condoms (lets say 3). There is a 6.4*10^-6 percent chance of all three of those condoms being defective. For a box of 10, there's a 1.05*10^-22 percent chance of all of those condoms being defective. As an example of how small that chance is, the current estimates for the number of stars in the observable universe is around the 10^22 mark, so you have a 1/(all the stars in the observable universe) percent chance of getting a box of 10 condoms which are all defective.

The "teachers" statement is completely wrong and deserves to be challenged. If your abstinence education has to be based on lies then it should not be taught. Period.

Then there's telling children that if they get pregnant they'll have to hide it from their parents, all their friends will leave them etc.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

And the kid doesn't want his friends and classmates to be mislead by idiots with an agenda to push, so he brings in scientific evidence to show how these people are wrong. That makes him an donkey-cave?

Yes, yes it does. Like his mother he's trying to pick a fight with a teacher. News flash, no one gives a . In fact, almost no one was probably awake in the class until he started being a butthead. If you disagree with something in class...too bad. Be quiet, regurgiate the nonsense, get an A. if not, get an F. But just shut up already. No one cares what you think dill weed.

So asking a teacher to back up their claims with evidence is picking a fight? Guess I shouldn't have corrected my GCSE science teacher on Newton's Laws, then...

As Kronk noted, the teacher can't do anything about the curriculum. Take it up with the ones making the curriculum and teach your kid on your own. Grandstanding is class is just being a dick.

As for people probably not being awake, now the kid is an donkey-cave for actually resulting in his peers engage with their education in this topic?

Is that what you call it? I call it trying to act like a pompous donkey-cave. When I was in high school odds are I would have put a cigarette in this kids face for being annoying. But I'm much calmer now...

I hardly remember anything about our sex ed. But we certainly learned how to properly put up a condom. Yet when that knowledge could have been useful, about 13 years later, I had completely forgotten everything, of course . I may not be very representative of the average student though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envy89 wrote:
My sex ed class spent more time bashing Christianity then it did teaching sex ed.

That was very unfair. Tons of other religions deserve to be bashed in sex ed classes. I am a proponent of equal opportunity religion bashing sex ed. I wish our sex ed included religion bashing, it would have made them way more enjoyable to me. I would certainly have paid way more attention .

The fundamental purpose of education is to inure children to social norms. Over time, kids are separated out into a hierarchy that more or less mirrors class status. Some kids spend most of their time at school navigating the disciplinary system. Others spend most of their time obtaining skills and information to help them compete in the cut throat race to and through college. That hierarchy collapses when it comes to sex education because there is no such thing as AP Health Class. Suddenly, everyone is in the same room again. Suddenly, everyone is being treated as part of the lowest common denominator. Understandably, the kids used to being at the top of the hierarchy object. What else could they do? Over the years, they have been taught to deal with classroom information dynamically while the main task other kids dealt with was just showing up.

Sex ed is (but is not supposed to be) about ideology, which is what the kid and the mom wanted to debate about. TBF, this is also why teaching abstinence comes off as unacceptable. The expectation that human beings should restrain their sexual urges even when everyone involved consents has greatly diminished since the 1960s. The upper classes agree that the poorer classes simply do not have the moral or practical wisdom to abstain. And the upper classes themselves have little motve to abstain because they can usually financially and socially absorb any costs associated with sexual irresponsibility; like everything else for them, sex is a matter of consumption. So the overriding social norm becomes, let's limit the amount of collateral damage (disease, pregnancy) caused by sexual market forces, which are amoral and "natural" like all market forces. By the way, I have no problem with that, for the purposes of this conversation. I am just pointing it out to show how much abstinence diverges from this ideology. Abstinence is premised on the idea that everyone, regardless of class status, has the moral capacity and responsibility to avoid bad outcomes. Which is to say, bad outcomes are not an incidental byproduct of one's right/uncontrollable urge to consume sexual pleasure. This attitude is of course "sex negative" according to the dominant capitalist-classicist ideology of sex.

The battle in that class room was not about facts but rather about ideology. I am not posting here to fight on one side or the other. The story only interests me because it is an absurd clash of culture warriors where the mom ignorantly portrays herself as the hero and those who already unthinkingly accept her ideology cannot see otherwise. This kind of bully culture is really becoming the dominant mode.

 whembly wrote:
she was absolutely right to make a scene, because sometimes, it may be the only way to jar some sense into these people

That's what every two year old thinks about their parents. When one gets to be an adult, it is time to take a different approach.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
we certainly learned how to properly put up a condom

"Put up" a condom? I somehow doubt what you learned is correct.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


The FDA requires at least 996 out of every 1000 condoms on average to pass a water leak test. So there's a 0.4% chance of a single condom being defective. Now, lets assume now that the person is buying a small pack of condoms (lets say 3). There is a 6.4*10^-6 percent chance of all three of those condoms being defective. For a box of 10, there's a 1.05*10^-22 percent chance of all of those condoms being defective. As an example of how small that chance is, the current estimates for the number of stars in the observable universe is around the 10^22 mark, so you have a 1/(all the stars in the observable universe) percent chance of getting a box of 10 condoms which are all defective.

So what you're saying is that statistics and numbers can be manipulated to fit a narrative?!?! You're kidding me!

When it comes to Abstinence, I'll paraphrase the great Wayne Gretzky.

"You don't make babies 100% of the times you abstain from sex."

Regardless, it isn't hard to not have a kid. And if having an 8lb tiny screaming monster that you're responsible for isn't enough of a deterrent, will anything be?

Excellent insight Manchu.

 cincydooley wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


The FDA requires at least 996 out of every 1000 condoms on average to pass a water leak test. So there's a 0.4% chance of a single condom being defective. Now, lets assume now that the person is buying a small pack of condoms (lets say 3). There is a 6.4*10^-6 percent chance of all three of those condoms being defective. For a box of 10, there's a 1.05*10^-22 percent chance of all of those condoms being defective. As an example of how small that chance is, the current estimates for the number of stars in the observable universe is around the 10^22 mark, so you have a 1/(all the stars in the observable universe) percent chance of getting a box of 10 condoms which are all defective.

So what you're saying is that statistics and numbers can be manipulated to fit a narrative?!?! You're kidding me!

When it comes to Abstinence, I'll paraphrase the great Wayne Gretzky.

"You don't make babies 100% of the times you abstain from sex."

Regardless, it isn't hard to not have a kid. And if having an 8lb tiny screaming monster that you're responsible for isn't enough of a deterrent, will anything be?

Well in this case they're not manipulated. They're just plain false

And all comprehensive sex-ed courses include that not having sex is the only 100% effective way of not having a baby (unless you're having anal or oral sex). Nobody is arguing with that.
But when you use a condom properly there is a 2% chance of failure, when you take the pill properly there is a 1% (or less) chance of failure. Combine these two methods and there's a 1 in 5000 chance of a pregnancy.

People know how to not have sex, that doesn't need to be taught, most children have quite a lot of experience at it. People need to be taught how to properly use contraception, about consent, about relationships and domestic abuse and so on. This is stuff that children don't know and which will protect their health when they do decide to have sex and enter relationships.

I pissed myself laughing after "The Sun moves UP and DOWN"

The stupidity of that teaching defies belief.

Wrap your gak up or it might fall off should at least be lesson 2 or 3.

 kronk wrote:
Wrap your gak up or it might fall off should at least be lesson 2 or 3.

Lesson 1 should be don't stick your thing in crazy, don't let crazy stick it's thing in you

 Deadshot wrote:
I pissed myself laughing after "The Sun moves UP and DOWN"

The stupidity of that teaching defies belief.

I think you might have read that wrong. It wasn't a teaching but rather an irrational argument the son made as a child.

The more I read this the more I don't see a good side here. The school taught a uninformative topic filled with mis-information and agenda, but was compelled to by the curriculum. The mother does not acquit herself well either. That's not to say what she was saying was wrong, but there were many other more constructive ways to do it.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
The more I read this the more I don't see a good side here. The school taught a uninformative topic filled with mis-information and agenda, but was compelled to by the curriculum. The mother does not acquit herself well either. That's not to say what she was saying was wrong, but there were many other more constructive ways to do it.

Well said... but, again... I don't blame the mother.

We all ain't angels.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Wrap your gak up or it might fall off should at least be lesson 2 or 3.

Lesson 1 should be don't stick your thing in crazy, don't let crazy stick it's thing in you

no, don't date crazy, hookups with them are fine.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Wrap your gak up or it might fall off should at least be lesson 2 or 3.

Lesson 1 should be don't stick your thing in crazy, don't let crazy stick it's thing in you

no, don't date crazy, hookups with them are fine.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Simple don't stick your thing in crazy. Full. Stop.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
no, don't date crazy, hookups with them are fine.

If you play with fire...

 whembly wrote:
Well said... but, again... I don't blame the mother.

We all ain't angels.

Those two statements don't go together.

 Strombones wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I pissed myself laughing after "The Sun moves UP and DOWN"

The stupidity of that teaching defies belief.

I think you might have read that wrong. It wasn't a teaching but rather an irrational argument the son made as a child.

I know, I just pissed myself already so didn't read on.

 Hordini wrote:
We had a student put a regular condom on their entire forearm.

Just because they can stretch that far doesn't mean it will feel comfortable at that tension, the truth of the matter is men's penises come in all shapes and sizes and for some the standard ones are too tight and it makes sex too difficult.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
We had a student put a regular condom on their entire forearm.

Just because they can stretch that far doesn't mean it will feel comfortable at that tension, the truth of the matter is men's penises come in all shapes and sizes and for some the standard ones are too tight and it makes sex too difficult.

Also, sometimes the condom can be loose and in danger of coming off, as sometimes a penis can be thinner at the base thatln other areas which leads to looseness. Commonly seen where the penis bends due to tissue breakages

Unlike this school, I received proper sex education and biology class.

 Manchu wrote:
This kind of bully culture is really becoming the dominant mode.

Since when is opposing blatant lying and scare tactics "bully culture"?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
This kind of bully culture is really becoming the dominant mode.

Since when is opposing blatant lying and scare tactics "bully culture"?

Indeed, if anything the speakers attempts to belittle the kid ("You can look anything up on the internet") and the scare stories with absolutely no evidence are real bully tactics, designed to make sure that the kids just shut up and do what they're told or else

As already explained, this is a story about ideological conflict. Keep in mind the mom's main points:

(1) Sex is pleasurable, and there’s no good reason you should deny it to yourself if you have a consenting partner and you’re on the same page.

(2) Marrying someone who you haven’t had sex with is a potential disaster. How do you know if you’re sexually compatible?

(3) Whomever you love enough to marry deserves to have you well-practiced at sex before you marry.

These are all values and not facts.

 Manchu wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Well said... but, again... I don't blame the mother.

We all ain't angels.

Those two statements don't go together.

:sigh:

You go with that buddy.

Story time... I wear hearing aids.

Therefore, when I was growing up, I'd get bullied/picked on... especially in middle school.

After taking actual physical punishment all day long, I snapped and beat the holy hell out of my opponent. Everyone in the class saw that I was defending myself.

And, yet, because of zero tolerance, the school suspend both of us.

My dad took exception to that and complained to the principle, (I was watching the conversation from the secretary's desk)... but, he was polite at first, but when the principle wouldn't change his mind. My dad simply said something to the effect of "fine, I'll be by your car in the parking lot and I'll beat the gak out of you"... the principle said, "I'll call the police!"... my dad said, "great, then we both go to jail... right?"

I don't know what that story is supposed to prove. Does it have anything to do with going into a classroom specifically to juice yourself up for a political argument with teachers? Nope.

That sometimes being ass is one way to prove a point.

Oh I agree, it proves the person is an ass.

 Manchu wrote:
As already explained, this is a story about ideological conflict. Keep in mind the mom's main points:

(1) Sex is pleasurable, and there’s no good reason you should deny it to yourself if you have a consenting partner and you’re on the same page.

(2) Marrying someone who you haven’t had sex with is a potential disaster. How do you know if you’re sexually compatible?

(3) Whomever you love enough to marry deserves to have you well-practiced at sex before you marry.

These are all values and not facts.

You missed some points:

(4) The cited statistics about failure and pregnancy rates are blatant lies.

(5) The "roll a D6 to see if you get a baby" game is incredibly dishonest.

(6) The scare tactics about "if you have sex you will have babies and get addicted to drugs and ruin your life" are inappropriate.

(7) The school is giving a platform for one side of the ideological conflict to persuade people, not doing its job of providing legitimate education.