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**Shigematsu**

Kanluwen wrote:
Shigematsu wrote:
AFAIK Kelly doesnt write the crunch anymore, just the fluff.

So this is Cruddace and Vetock and the rest of the team.

I don't believe for a second that Kelly didn't have a hand in the rules portion of this.

It's well balanced internally and lacks random tables nested within random tables? That's his signature after all.

Seriously though, people wishing the assault of or firing of rules writers is weird.

**Kanluwen**

Sure, conflate what I said with those two options.

And "well balanced internally"? I guess Vampire Counts, the previous Eldar book(s), and Space Wolves never happened huh.

**Shigematsu**

Kanluwen wrote:
Sure, conflate what I said with those two options.

And "well balanced internally"? I guess Vampire Counts, the previous Eldar book(s), and Space Wolves never happened huh.

Oh, the second statement wasnt meant towards you just to people in general from what Ive seen over the past few days.

Don't forget Kelly's love of the D.Eldar, which have... lackluster 7th ed rules.

**Talys**

epronovost wrote:
From what Talys just wrote, it doesn't seem so bad. The Wave Serpent has finally been fixed in a reasonnable way. Scatter laser have lost laser lock, and pretty much everything else remains the same. Shure, formation are good, but that's pretty much where all power gaming is going: in formations. Jetbikes are very problematic with their options to buy so many high strength weapons for a relatively low price on the most mobile platform there is. Yet, I think it's possible to fight them, even with those odds, with multiple small units to force them to waste some of their firepowers and their relatively low endurence point wise. At almost 30 pts each, you certainly pay for those unlucky roles. Cheap access to 4+ armor save can really save a lot of damage against scatter lasers and some deep striking abilities can help you get the jump on them. Since their squads are usually small, it's rather easy to force a Ld check and guardians only have Ld 8 so it's possible to break them. Shure, a max out army of these guys will make things tedious has hell and require specilised forces to fight them.

I tend to have the same thoughts.

**ZebioLizard2**

Kanluwen wrote:
Sure, conflate what I said with those two options.

And "well balanced internally"? I guess Vampire Counts, the previous Eldar book(s), and Space Wolves never happened huh.

Don't forget his weird half are okay, half are gak, and one or two are broken. Like CSM and DE.

**Makumba**

Shigematsu wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Sure, conflate what I said with those two options.

And "well balanced internally"? I guess Vampire Counts, the previous Eldar book(s), and Space Wolves never happened huh.

Oh, the second statement wasnt meant towards you just to people in general from what Ive seen over the past few days.

Don't forget Kelly's love of the D.Eldar, which have... lackluster 7th ed rules.

he wrote them as ally for his beloved eldar. that way they make perfect sense.

**BrianDavion**

Quickjager wrote:
It's the same guy who did the leaks of the Deamonkin codex; he isn't the type to lie.

EDIT: BLOODY HELL THEY GET NO SCATTER DEEPSTRIKE ON VEHICLES. bs I'M A DEEPSTRIKE ARMY AND I DON'T EVEN GET A REDUCTION IN SCATTER!

yeah that annoys me too, as it is I'm not sure why an army of a dying race has friken squadrons of vehicles anyway.

**Vaktathi**

Yeah, that *was* the IG's special schtick, but GW appears to have decided that armies shouldn't have those anymore, much to the Dark Angels' distress in particular.

**A Town Called Malus**

Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, that *was* the IG's special schtick, but GW appears to have decided that armies shouldn't have those anymore, much to the Dark Angels' distress in particular.

On the other hand, squadrons of Hammerheads might actually lead to people taking them over Broadsides which would make a nice change.

Just need to stick in some ridiculous rule where you get +1 BS from each extra Hammerhead in the squadron after the first and Tank Hunters or something like that. Who doesn't want BS6 S10 AP1 Tank Hunter guns across the table from them? Or BS6 S8 AP3 Pie Plates?

*whisper whisper whisper*

What do you mean that's OP? People will just need to adapt and evolve!

**raiden**

Yup

**DarkLink**

Shigematsu wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Shigematsu wrote:
AFAIK Kelly doesnt write the crunch anymore, just the fluff.

So this is Cruddace and Vetock and the rest of the team.

I don't believe for a second that Kelly didn't have a hand in the rules portion of this.

It's well balanced internally and lacks random tables nested within random tables? That's his signature after all.

Seriously though, people wishing the assault of or firing of rules writers is weird.

Well, wanting to assault the rules writers is pretty questionable. Firing them, though, quite understandable.

**Chad Warden**

Kelly may have worked on this before he stopped writing rules - Ward's stuff was getting released months after he left GW.

**ClassicCarraway**

I guess they saw how badly they messed up with the Decurian Necrons so they enlisted the Elder to clean up their mess...

**Jimsolo**

I for one am super stoked! But then, I play with Eldar allies, so I'm pretty biased...

Still, it'll be nice to have troops that aren't totally useless in non-tactical objective missions. The tax to get a Farseer is actually going to contribute to the army now! Woot!

**Toofast**

BoomWolf wrote:
Have seen no confirmention on the S: D thing, but the jetbikes alone makes me want to punch the rules team.

They are seriusly paid to scratch their asses or what?

For every good release (khorne, skitari), you get an abomination like necron and eldar.

It like they are TRYING to bring down 40k.

The fact that you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been confirmed.

**Rippy**

epronovost wrote:
From what Talys just wrote, it doesn't seem so bad. The Wave Serpent has finally been fixed in a reasonnable way. Scatter laser have lost laser lock, and pretty much everything else remains the same. Shure, formation are good, but that's pretty much where all power gaming is going: in formations. Jetbikes are very problematic with their options to buy so many high strength weapons for a relatively low price on the most mobile platform there is. Yet, I think it's possible to fight them, even with those odds, with multiple small units to force them to waste some of their firepowers and their relatively low endurence point wise. At almost 30 pts each, you certainly pay for those unlucky roles. Cheap access to 4+ armor save can really save a lot of damage against scatter lasers and some deep striking abilities can help you get the jump on them. Since their squads are usually small, it's rather easy to force a Ld check and guardians only have Ld 8 so it's possible to break them. Shure, a max out army of these guys will make things tedious has hell and require specilised forces to fight them.

You have to be an Eldar player. Or you just haven't see the releases yourself.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why, why did GW do this? WHY?

**Martel732**

Because $$.

**Rippy**

Martel732 wrote:
Because $$.

They would have made a mint without OPing them, or by OPing a faction that is currently horrible (looking at you CSM, not that I want it to happen). It literally doesn't make sense to Super charge an already top tier codex.

**Martel732**

They don't understand the best way to make $$, they just think this is the right move.

**TheKbob**

Rippy wrote:

They would have made a mint without OPing them, or by OPing a faction that is currently horrible (looking at you CSM, not that I want it to happen). It literally doesn't make sense to Super charge an already top tier codex.

You're so close to the cusp of enlightenment. Keep going with that train of thought...

**Rippy**

Martel732 wrote:
They don't understand the best way to make $$, they just think this is the right move.

That must be it.

long term money making, all about the short term money grab. They were doing so well up until this release (yes yes, Necron are a little OP as well)

**Martel732**

Necrons at least let me pretend to play as BA. I move my models around and can imagine them accomplishing something right until they don't. With Eldar, even that fantasy is taken away. LOLZ Astartes! Die from 36" away!

**TheKbob**

Martel732 wrote:
Necrons at least let me pretend to play as BA.

Can't have that, now can we? Dataslate: Necrons Clan BAtred. Same as everything, but all models have Preferred Enemy Blood Angels and are Fearless if a BA model is on the table.

**Martel732**

LOL

**Rippy**

TheKbob wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Necrons at least let me pretend to play as BA.

Can't have that, now can we? Dataslate: Necrons Clan BAtred. Same as everything, but all models have Preferred Enemy Blood Angels and are Fearless if a BA model is on the table.

Expect GW to contact you for a rules writing job in the next hour.

**jhe90**

Just wait till the poster boys, aka marines get there new codex toys, they never miss out of upgrades, new kits or weapon's

Tau, necrons, guard, everyone gets somthing extremely effective

**wuestenfux**

Martel732 wrote:
Because $$.

Money is the main impetus.
Competitive Eldar players will buy Jetbikes to stay on top since Serpents got nerfed.
Eldar will eventually become even more powerful.

**Deschenus Maximus**

Well, we can all sit around and mope, or we can do something about it: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/645183.page

**Vaktathi**

jhe90 wrote:
Just wait till the poster boys, aka marines get there new codex toys, they never miss out of upgrades, new kits or weapon's

Tau, necrons, guard, everyone gets somthing extremely effective

This has not historically been the case. Guard also just got a book less than a year ago, SM's just over a year ago, it'll be a while, and design philosophy could change...yet again.

**Wonderwolf**

Chad Warden wrote:
Kelly may have worked on this before he stopped writing rules - Ward's stuff was getting released months after he left GW.

Really? What would that have been?

Ward didn't write a single 6th Edition book for 40K, when the names were still in there. Exception, the Iyanden Supplement, which had almost no rules. He basically "quit" 40K after 5th.

He last wrote the Fantasy-Elves trilogy (High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves), which were well received, all in all, and got fired at around the time GW stopped doing regular fantasy and moved to End Times.