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 agnosto wrote:
$124 bucks for a board game? They have completely lost the plot.

No, they didn't. They're selling models they're going to release anyway, bundled with some old junk that's been taking up inventory space for no reason, at a hefty markup. Every copy sold is pure value for GW and the game will sell.

It's not a product for me or you, but it's not a bad product.

I like the minis otherwise, except Callidus - not only the absurd ponytail which is 2 times bigger than her head, but the pose is uninspired as well. Just like your basic leaping (D)Eldar figure.

The game itself looks very FFG-ish, which may be either a good or bad thing. Co-op is a good choice, but also challenging design-wise, so I hope it is properly playtested (cue obligatory joke about GW and playtesting).

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
$124 bucks for a board game? They have completely lost the plot.

No, they didn't. They're selling models they're going to release anyway, bundled with some old junk that's been taking up inventory space for no reason, at a hefty markup. Every copy sold is pure value for GW and the game will sell.

It's not a product for me or you, but it's not a bad product.

He's not saying it's a bad product, he's saying the price is absurd for a board game of that size and style. Everything you said has very little to do with what agnosto said.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
$124 bucks for a board game? They have completely lost the plot.

No, they didn't. They're selling models they're going to release anyway, bundled with some old junk that's been taking up inventory space for no reason, at a hefty markup. Every copy sold is pure value for GW and the game will sell.

It's not a product for me or you, but it's not a bad product.

He's not saying it's a bad product, he's saying the price is absurd for a board game of that size and style. Everything you said has very little to do with what agnosto said.

Thank you; yes, that is what I meant. I enjoy board games, own many and would never purchase one with so little content for so much money. If someone is only interested in the models, just buy them separately later as the Chaos models already exist and can be had cheaply on eBay. There is simply no point to pay so much for so little game but I'm sure some masochistic people will do so regardless.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Yes, also english-only, but that's okay. If it turns out these are the only rooms though... B-a-d

No they'll be shots of some of the tiles like they did when Space Hulk came out.

Insane price!! I am gonna go get myself 3 plastic ships for GBP 80,- in Star Wars Armada instead!

I do not consider myself masochstic.
If you do the math, the game is not that bad of a deal.

4 Assassins, at about 13€ each as clampack (current ones!)- 52€
15 Cultists at 8€ per 5 - 24€
Terminator lord - 19.50€
3 Chaos Space Marines - 8€

So the value of the models itself is at 103.50€ - and I get a game to boot. Even if you go ridiculous and think the assassins will not be more expensive, the price of the models you despise so much is already well worth the cost of the game - without getting a game itself!

I see nothing masochistic here.

That tile art is horrendous.

Thairne wrote:I do not consider myself masochstic.
If you do the math, the game is not that bad of a deal.

4 Assassins, at about 20€ each as clampack - 80€

But are they worth that? We know that's what they will be sold for, but I'm not sure I could ever see a reality where a monopose plastic mini is actually worth that price (especially when the metal ones were half that).

Wonderwolf wrote:Insane price!! I am gonna go get myself 3 plastic ships for GBP 80,- in Star Wars Armada instead!

I'm assuming that's sarcasm, as FFG are just about the only company out there with less value for money than GW.

But look at the other big box preorder this week, Halo Fleet. Only £5 more than Execution force, but you get 49 models (some of which are pretty massive!), 25 dice, a full rulebook and campaign book (and other bits and bobs). To me, that's a great value set, especially compared to Execution Force.

 Thairne wrote:
I do not consider myself masochstic.
If you do the math, the game is not that bad of a deal.

4 Assassins, at about 13€ each as clampack (current ones!)- 52€
15 Cultists at 8€ per 5 - 24€
Terminator lord - 19.50€
3 Chaos Space Marines - 8€

So the value of the models itself is at 103.50€ - and I get a game to boot. Even if you go ridiculous and think the assassins will not be more expensive, the price of the models you despise so much is already well worth the cost of the game - without getting a game itself!

I see nothing masochistic here.

It's all in the way you approach this thing. You're coming at it with the angle of "Oooh, models for 40K!" and thus seeing the prices as what the models might be worth. However, for someone looking to actually buy a boardgame, they'll look this over, see that price, and back far, far away from it because they'll see it as outrageously overpriced in comparison to the comparable games on the market.

I'm not sure what you're all complaining about price wise, since a copy of Scrabble can cost up to £208 bucks lol.

http://www.tesco.com/direct/scrabble-luxury-edition/379-2469.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=379-2469

Backfire wrote:
I like the minis otherwise, except Callidus - not only the absurd ponytail which is 2 times bigger than her head, but the pose is uninspired as well. Just like your basic leaping (D)Eldar figure.

The game itself looks very FFG-ish, which may be either a good or bad thing. Co-op is a good choice, but also challenging design-wise, so I hope it is properly playtested (cue obligatory joke about GW and playtesting).

Laughs, it almost looks like the Callidus ponytail is a scaling error during copypasteing it on the model.

Regarding FFG, it looks eerily similar to Imperial Assault. I wonder if FFG approached GW to make '40k Imperial Assault' and GW said "hey, that's a good idea - thanks!".

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
I do not consider myself masochstic.
If you do the math, the game is not that bad of a deal.

4 Assassins, at about 13€ each as clampack (current ones!)- 52€
15 Cultists at 8€ per 5 - 24€
Terminator lord - 19.50€
3 Chaos Space Marines - 8€

So the value of the models itself is at 103.50€ - and I get a game to boot. Even if you go ridiculous and think the assassins will not be more expensive, the price of the models you despise so much is already well worth the cost of the game - without getting a game itself!

I see nothing masochistic here.

It's all in the way you approach this thing. You're coming at it with the angle of "Oooh, models for 40K!" and thus seeing the prices as what the models might be worth. However, for someone looking to actually buy a boardgame, they'll look this over, see that price, and back far, far away from it because they'll see it as outrageously overpriced in comparison to the comparable games on the market.

This is very true. Without the dual purpose I intend to lavish on the Assassins, the game is overpriced.
But, funnily enough, half the time in this thread people are like "uhuh, no new models fur chaos, not worth it!" and the other half is "no, the game is not worth the price since I don't care about the models".
It's a package deal for 40kers I think. Which we most likely are. So...

 Paradigm wrote:

I'm assuming that's sarcasm, as FFG are just about the only company out there with less value for money than GW.

But look at the other big box preorder this week, Halo Fleet. Only £5 more than Execution force, but you get 49 models (some of which are pretty massive!), 25 dice, a full rulebook and campaign book (and other bits and bobs). To me, that's a great value set, especially compared to Execution Force.

No denying there are more affordable companies out there than GW. But FFG is hardly the only one in the bracket above GW. How many people bought 14 mono-pose pewter-minis and a not-even-cardboard-paper-poster-game"board" for GBP 75,- RRP in Operation Icestorm?

GW is pricey, no doubt, but they've long ceded the top-tier to others. Is GW expensive? Yes. Are GW prices unprecedented insanity with nothing like it in the market? No.

 Thairne wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
I do not consider myself masochstic.
If you do the math, the game is not that bad of a deal.

4 Assassins, at about 13€ each as clampack (current ones!)- 52€
15 Cultists at 8€ per 5 - 24€
Terminator lord - 19.50€
3 Chaos Space Marines - 8€

So the value of the models itself is at 103.50€ - and I get a game to boot. Even if you go ridiculous and think the assassins will not be more expensive, the price of the models you despise so much is already well worth the cost of the game - without getting a game itself!

I see nothing masochistic here.

It's all in the way you approach this thing. You're coming at it with the angle of "Oooh, models for 40K!" and thus seeing the prices as what the models might be worth. However, for someone looking to actually buy a boardgame, they'll look this over, see that price, and back far, far away from it because they'll see it as outrageously overpriced in comparison to the comparable games on the market.

This is very true. Without the dual purpose I intend to lavish on the Assassins, the game is overpriced.
But, funnily enough, half the time in this thread people are like "uhuh, no new models fur chaos, not worth it!" and the other half is "no, the game is not worth the price since I don't care about the models".
It's a package deal for 40kers I think. Which we most likely are. So...

But then Dark Vengeance is cheaper for more Chaos models if you're after a package deal for models. Either way it's overpriced, just the way you broke it down it's overpriced because the Assassin models are. If they're marketing it as a board game it needs to be competitively priced with other board games really.

The fact it seems to be limited edition means they'll all sell though.

Cool!

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

I'm assuming that's sarcasm, as FFG are just about the only company out there with less value for money than GW.

But look at the other big box preorder this week, Halo Fleet. Only £5 more than Execution force, but you get 49 models (some of which are pretty massive!), 25 dice, a full rulebook and campaign book (and other bits and bobs). To me, that's a great value set, especially compared to Execution Force.

No denying there are more affordable companies out there than GW. But FFG is hardly the only one in the bracket above GW. How many people bought 14 mono-pose pewter-minis and a not-even-cardboard-paper-poster-game"board" for GBP 75,- RRP in Operation Icestorm?

GW is pricey, no doubt, but they've long ceded the top-tier to others. Is GW expensive? Yes. Are GW prices unprecedented insanity with nothing like it in the market? No.

Operation Icestorm wasn't marketed as a board game though, it's a starter set. Maybe it was a bit pricey but the models are damned good, not just repackaged surplus stuff with a couple new thrown in.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Operation Icestorm wasn't marketed as a board game though, it's a starter set. Maybe it was a bit pricey but the models are damned good, not just repackaged surplus stuff with a couple new thrown in.

So if they'd added a boardgame, a solid cardboard board instead of flimsy paper, additional rules and more to give Icestorm dual-use as both boardgame and miniature-game starter, it would've been worth less?

 ImAGeek wrote:
The fact it seems to be limited edition means they'll all sell though.

I dunno. Dreadfleet was limited edition and looked what happened there. While this is no Dreadfleet, I don't think this'll fly off the shelves, Space Hulk style. I think we'll see this up for sale for a couple of weeks at least

Personally, this looks a little bit of a dull game. The board tiles are uninspired and the Chaos models are a missed opportunity. Assassin models are nice, but since they'll be out for general release, the option to pick them up later means buying this just for the Assassins seems a little bit pointless. Can't comment on the game play, but with the board tiles being quite small and rumours of not much in the way of corridors and whatnot, means it'll have limited replay value.

Saying that, I applaud GW for attempting and putting out more non-core games. Shame they don't, you know, ask us (as in the royal us) what we'd like to see...

Wonderwolf wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Operation Icestorm wasn't marketed as a board game though, it's a starter set. Maybe it was a bit pricey but the models are damned good, not just repackaged surplus stuff with a couple new thrown in.

So if they'd added a boardgame, a solid cardboard board instead of flimsy paper, additional rules and more to give Icestorm dual-use as both boardgame and miniature-game starter, it would've been worth less?

No but then it wouldn't have had metal models as a board game so actually it probably would be, yeah.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Operation Icestorm wasn't marketed as a board game though, it's a starter set. Maybe it was a bit pricey but the models are damned good, not just repackaged surplus stuff with a couple new thrown in.

So if they'd added a boardgame, a solid cardboard board instead of flimsy paper, additional rules and more to give Icestorm dual-use as both boardgame and miniature-game starter, it would've been worth less?

No but then it wouldn't have had metal models as a board game so actually it probably would be, yeah.

Metal models < (hard-)plastic models in production cost. Those 14 pewter minis probably cost Corvus Belli less than even half an Assassin.

 Platuan4th wrote:
He's not saying it's a bad product, he's saying the price is absurd for a board game of that size and style. Everything you said has very little to do with what agnosto said.

My response was to the idea that GW somehow "lost the plot" with this product. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't. Quite the opposite.

The cost being absurd to an individual customer is not a good qualification of the product being a success/failure for the company.

Goddamn auto correct.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

I'm assuming that's sarcasm, as FFG are just about the only company out there with less value for money than GW.

But look at the other big box preorder this week, Halo Fleet. Only £5 more than Execution force, but you get 49 models (some of which are pretty massive!), 25 dice, a full rulebook and campaign book (and other bits and bobs). To me, that's a great value set, especially compared to Execution Force.

No denying there are more affordable companies out there than GW. But FFG is hardly the only one in the bracket above GW. How many people bought 14 mono-pose pewter-minis and a not-even-cardboard-paper-poster-game"board" for GBP 75,- RRP in Operation Icestorm?

GW is pricey, no doubt, but they've long ceded the top-tier to others. Is GW expensive? Yes. Are GW prices unprecedented insanity with nothing like it in the market? No.

Guilty as charged, I pre-ordered Icestorm and aside from Space Hulk, it's possibly the best wargaming £75 I have spent. Superb minis, versatile terrain, great rules. But compare even the basic grunts in Icestorm to the snap-fit CSM/Cultists here, and you can see the difference, it's like they weren't even made on the same planet. I'll happily pay for quality, I'll happily pay for quantity, but in either case this GW set doesn't hold up to its competition. £75 can get me less models that are much higher quality, or more models of a pretty comparable quality. Even just comparing it to GW, whoever thought this was worth as much as Space Hulk last year must be mad.

Being perfectly honest, if this had had new/unique CSM minis in, to the quality of DV, then I'd have bought it. If it had had, say, 10 or even 5 of the multi-part ones you can at least try to do something interesting with, I'd have been tempted. But the snap-fit minis are next to worthless, and the 5 good minis in the box are not worth that price, even with the tiles.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Operation Icestorm wasn't marketed as a board game though, it's a starter set. Maybe it was a bit pricey but the models are damned good, not just repackaged surplus stuff with a couple new thrown in.

So if they'd added a boardgame, a solid cardboard board instead of flimsy paper, additional rules and more to give Icestorm dual-use as both boardgame and miniature-game starter, it would've been worth less?

No but then it wouldn't have had metal models as a board game so actually it probably would be, yeah.

Metal models < (hard-)plastic models in production cost. Those 14 pewter minis probably cost Corvus Belli less than even half an Assassin.

Well most board games don't use hard plastic either. And most of the models in this assassin game already existed, and the assassins will be released seperately later, so that doesn't even really matter for this.

I agree with everything Paradigm said above.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

My response was to the idea that GW somehow "lost the plot" with this product. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't. Quite the opposite.

agnosto saying that they lost the plot meant more whether GW lost track of whether this is supposed to be a miniatures box + some random rules to make it a "game"(which it IS) or an actual board game with models(which is how they're marketing it).

'Even just comparing it to GW, whoever thought this was worth as much as Space Hulk last year must be mad'

Exactly this. I'm the same as most, I'll pay for a decent box of stuff. I'll pay more if it's better quality. But it's the reboxing of old minis I can't understand. I paid 75 quid for those space hulk minis, to hell with the game, it was an added bonus. I'm not alone in this. But why not make the effort here? Give me some new cultists and a natty lord, I'll throw the cash.

This will sell, obvisouly. But it's just a little less effort which disappoints me.

 ImAGeek wrote:

...And most of the models in this assassin game already existed, and the assassins will be released seperately later, so that doesn't even really matter for this.

I agree with everything Paradigm said above.

Sorry if i missed it but do we know this for sure?

Hmmm is it just me or is there something horribly wrong with the cali arms?

I still plan on getting them. but now im gonna probably have to do some cutting and green stuffing which i dont mind that much.

The game board is pretty crap.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
He's not saying it's a bad product, he's saying the price is absurd for a board game of that size and style. Everything you said has very little to do with what agnosto said.

My response was to the idea that GW somehow "lost the plot" with this product. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't. Quite the opposite.

The cost being absurd to an individual customer is not a good qualification of the product being a success/failure for the company.

Goddamn auto correct.

Is it a wargame or a board game. It clearly says board game on the advert. If a company is marketing something as something, expectations become attached to it. Words have meaning and there is an entire board game industry out there, outside of the GW hemisphere. If they meant this to be just minis for 40k, they could have just thrown the minis in a box with some scenario rules and called it a 40k "expansion" but they didn't, they called it a board game.