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Howard A Treesong wrote: GW aren't interested in their customers opinions. They are proud of the fact they don't do market research, it's otiose in a niche hobby such as wargaming. I don't know of any other company in the business that are as stubbornly uncommunicative and defensive towards their own customers, but that's their strategy probably because of some misconceived notions as to preserving the value of their IP.
I agree with this, which makes me proud of the fact that I don't buy GW stuff, anymore.
GW aren't the only people who can play the ignore game.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
i voted no...
i have zero problem with GW...
in 30 years of collecting their models, they have continued to improve their product, and made me a happy painter...
i still enjoy the art and fiction just as much now as i did 30 years ago...
having never been a gamer, i have never had to suffer through all of the frustration that has people up in arms...
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
good luck getting your voices heard, or at least venting your frustration...
personally, if i were an unhappy 40k player, i would just sell off my stuff and buy more Infinity...
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 23:47:21
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
I see people saying this, and things like it, all the time. Just out of curiosity, how big do you think GW is? How many 40k customers do you think there are?
"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain.
Vermis wrote: Tsliber: What these guys said. GW's not too big to fail - bigger companies have, by ignoring their market and carrying on blindly.
Fenrir: How's that much different to now?
Its not, which is the point. People seem to assume that some magical saviour will come swooping in and fix all the wrongs with the game and it'll be rainbows and joy. A Guy Hands style figure may be the one spotting the market potential and buying it up.
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
Post shows a profit, a restructuring gameplan, and change in focus. Your article does not show a doomsday in the making by any means.
We already had the to big to fail conversation. GW is fine, again its a fraction of people who simply do not read, or read to many absurd articles of reviews on new X and jump on the hatewagon. Also people who do not understand, or fundamentally can not find effectiveness to have fun, win, or enjoy that have problems with the game.
I feel bad for the people who read one article, one guys hate and then spread. The rules are fine, the balance and further restrictions at tournies are fine. Each codex has the ability to field great units with great fluff. Not to mention the new products are great with minimal price increases lately.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/21 17:17:43
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
I voted NO, as I see this as a big waste of time. I think a better solution would be better for the community to come-up with their own game to use their 40K models with. I know, the chances of that happening are little better than GW changing its ways. Some would say worse. But with the dissatisfaction running as high as it is its worth a shot. Besides its a constructive and empowering alternative to yet another futile petition attempt at forcing change.
While people keep playing the game, paying large amounts of money for practically re-issue army books and new editions of rules, then GW are not going to change their MO.
I haven't played the game for some years now, but it brought me many years of happiness. While I would never have said that, in terms of mechanics, it was a particularly well designed system in the past, there is a large difference between 'acceptable' and 'piss poor'. You can have fun with 'acceptable' but in my mind the move towards the latter, and how much antagonism and complaint it has caused, is a sad thing to see. I know some people who still play and enjoy the game, but they do so in tightly controlled versions of the rules (30k and the like). I feel for those who rely on pick up games and them come across armies that thematically resemble a Jackson Pollock painting.
Eventually, perhaps, sales will drop to the point that GWhas to look at core values. To look at what made them the king at the top of the pile, and produce a set of rules that values mechanics and balance above sales of new plastic kits. A lot of the miniature ranges are still great, but it's criminal that a company that has made so many trend-setting, almost landmark, rule systems over the years is currently probably one of the worst in the industry in terms of how poorly their games are designed.
I voted no. At this point, so many great games have grown out of the niches that GW has abandoned over the years. GW "returning to form" could crowd out a lot of those games, which are far more interesting than anything GW has put out in over a decade.
It's a moot point, though. An entirely improbable sequence of events would have to occur for real, productive changes to happen.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
Post shows a profit, a restructuring gameplan, and change in focus. Your article does not show a doomsday in the making by any means.
We already had the to big to fail conversation. GW is fine, again its a fraction of people who simply do not read, or read to many absurd articles of reviews on new X and jump on the hatewagon. Also people who do not understand, or fundamentally can not find effectiveness to have fun, win, or enjoy that have problems with the game.
I feel bad for the people who read one article, one guys hate and then spread. The rules are fine, the balance and further restrictions at tournies are fine. Each codex has the ability to field great units with great fluff. Not to mention the new products are great with minimal price increases lately.
I never said anything about a doomsday. Yes profit, from a declining playerbase, this artificial profit is only because the constant inflation of prices. But sure if you think everything ok. keep at it.
(the killing of GW tournaments, Outriders, specialist games, the change on Warhammer Fantasy Battle is all good news!).
i get why people are upset, but i am a very happy GW customer...
as long as they continue to produce beautiful plastic models that inspire me to paint, i will be a customer...
When you're the last one, they might just call it a day...
LOL... he is far from the last one. Dakka is a miniscule of a fraction of the 40k world. And even here more than 50% of the 100 people voted no, not to mention the countless who clicked and read thread and moved on laughing.
Face it, the ratio of people who have a problem with GW is not nearly enough for GW to have to make a change. Enjoy the game/models/lore or move on.
Post shows a profit, a restructuring gameplan, and change in focus. Your article does not show a doomsday in the making by any means.
We already had the to big to fail conversation. GW is fine, again its a fraction of people who simply do not read, or read to many absurd articles of reviews on new X and jump on the hatewagon. Also people who do not understand, or fundamentally can not find effectiveness to have fun, win, or enjoy that have problems with the game.
I feel bad for the people who read one article, one guys hate and then spread. The rules are fine, the balance and further restrictions at tournies are fine. Each codex has the ability to field great units with great fluff. Not to mention the new products are great with minimal price increases lately.
I never said anything about a doomsday. Yes profit, from a declining playerbase, this artificial profit is only because the constant inflation of prices. But sure if you think everything ok. keep at it.
(the killing of GW tournaments, Outriders, specialist games, the change on Warhammer Fantasy Battle is all good news!).
Okay apologies, for over stating what were saying and using the word "doomsday".
My 3 FLGS (where I play regularly) have a bigger increase in player base and tourney show ups, Adepticon, LV open, Templecon all have had an increase or steady attendance. The ITC circuit is taking off... I know the magic box likes to say the player decline is in effect, i have yet to see it, and frankly its the same ole poison to the community starting and then restating the hate.... Also what price hike has there been on GW models? I must of missed the general increase they used to have... As for new models, the extra bits, lack of mold lines, and detail to the work is worth the price point (IE a box set, set a bit higher than they used to be on new production)
The game plan moving forward looks great for GW, the rules looks great. Its just the bashing every time a new book comes out. Wagghhh deamons are op and not play tested, waghhh necrons same thing, waghh tau same thing, waghhh eldar same thing. Really even the new Eldar book prior to even being dropped, "its unfair", 'it spams bikes with str6 shots", "its not play tested".... Bikes with str6 that dont auto ignore cover is a blessing compared to the current books wave serpents.
But in either case, lets agree to disagree and move on mate. Cheers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/22 16:32:57
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
People need to remember that GW isn't here to make people happy, and bring joy to the player base and keep everything balanced. GW is here to make money. You're not going to buy more of the same model (no one needs 6 squads of terminators for example), so if the balance never changed people wouldn't be encouraged to buy new products. This way by changing the balance people are encouraged to buy the new powerhouse models (elder jet bikes) or their armies counter to the powerhouse. This happened with Necrons in the last codex, and it will continue to happen.
If you really don't like their business then stop buying from them. GW isn't going to change their minds of making money simply because a small percent of the player base is hurt. Its a business, get over it. Some time down the road your army will be buffed to encourage you to buy your new OP models. TO ENCOURAGE SALES.
TL;DR GW is a business and they know how to encourage sales. Get over yourself.
Tsilber wrote: [My 3 FLGS (where I play regularly) have a bigger increase in player base and tourney show ups, Adepticon, LV open, Templecon all have had an increase or steady attendance. The ITC circuit is taking off... I know the magic box likes to say the player decline is in effect, i have yet to see it,
The Adepticon 40K Championship had more than 220 participants last year, this year the number was 187. This was the first tournament that I checked from your list and it shows a 15% drop in attendance.
Tsilber wrote: Oh man, another "GW is evil and hates me, and doesnt listen" thread/poll/vote...
If people spent as much time practicing, researching and building competitive list as they do dissecting/complaining about GW as a business and how unbalance or over price everything is, they could be right up there with the big boys at tourney finales, lol.
Or try something else, infinity, snoremachine, monopoly...
But really this is one site, with a fraction of what GW's fan/customer base is. And the votes are already 2 to 1 on the "no" side.. let it go.
**see sig below...
Oh boy, this thread's "you just need to git good and stop trying to improve something you care about post" is already here.
There's absolutely no point signing a petition until people are willing to boycott games workshop when the petition demands aren't met. Petitions are about the threat of boycott, that's why (and when) they are effective. Getting people (even 10,000 people) to say warm fuzzy things to each other while clicking a button on the internet for a game that they will continue playing/purchasing regardless of the outcome, will have no effect. But it is the internet, and people do like to click buttons.
Things aren't great for GW. It's not one bad article, it's many stagnating financial reports with award winning quotes to the tune of "if making money is considered bad, then yes, we had a bad report." Basically saying they're navel gazing so hard that they will even refine what good accounting is...
Also, one of the biggest online nerd shops, miniature market, dumped GW last year. That's pretty bad.
Yep, the game needs constant reballancing. However, it must be subtle reballancing. For example, look at codex: Orks. Tankbustas are almost in every army now. Painboys everywhere. Big guns! And everyone's happy. People buy this products. And the codex is somewhat well ballanced externally, so there's literally noone, who's playing other armies, complaining about orks.
Codex: Craftsworld Eldar is a good example of power creep approach. Yep, it will inspire sales but at the same time, power creep makes LOTS of people unhappy. It inevitably results in someone leaving, boycotting, being even more vocal about how 'bad' the game is, weather it's right or wrong. Yes, people are buying lots of eldar models currently. However, the overall sales of other stuff is lowered. And will be even lower over time. Just remember the last time someone asked: "Hey, i've got some spare time and money and i want to start a game, what can you propose? Heard bout WH40k - looks cool!". And most people would answer: "It's a great setting, cool minis but it lacks ballance - if you want fair play, you'd better look for game X or Y and not warhammer 40k". No new blood. No money.
That's why power creep is not the best business politics in the long run. We get it than GW is struggling to keep their profits up. But iirc there are lots of previously successful games dying out or allready dead cause of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/23 04:56:49
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