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Hi everyone. I was reading the Supplemental Codex Champions of Fenris. In it Logan Grimnar used a weapon wielded by a Champion of Chaos. I thought that the Adeptus Astartes couldnt use weapons in this manner. How often is this supposed to happen and Can the minis use the enemy weapons like this in games?

 honeybadger33 wrote:

In it Logan Grimnar used a weapon wielded by a Champion of Chaos. I thought that the Adeptus Astartes couldnt use weapons in this manner.

It wouldn't be looked kindly upon, but there's nothing to physically stop them.

 honeybadger33 wrote:

How often is this supposed to happen

Not very.

 honeybadger33 wrote:

Can the minis use the enemy weapons like this in games?

No.

It does happen. Remember, lots of the chaos gear was used by marines before the fall. So once purified/consecrated, it can be used again. Sometimes. It pops up enough in the fluff, I’d not be bothered if someone wanted to incorporate it into their chapter’s history.

look at inquisitor Quixos, think I spelt his name wrong.

he used a deamon blade in the fluff and could wield it with his mind I think

it happens rarely in the fluff but it happens


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but you can forge a narrative in a game with deamon weapons

iv have done something similar in the past

There's a mention to something like it in the 6th edition rulebook, the Defence of Eagle Gate, or something like that, where a line says something like 'discarding and taking up weapons as necessary' in regards to a squad of ultramarines involved in a lightning advance. Whether or not it's enemy weapons isn't mentioned, but it seems reasonable.

Probably happens as it's necessary, in the fluff. When you specialise in protracted lightning wars like the Space Marines do, it makes sense to take up enemy weapons if they have ammunition and your weapon doesn't.

Unless it was retconned and perhaps my memory fails me, but weren't the gauntlets of Ultramar taken off a champion of chaos?

Widespread use of xenos weapons is heresy. I imagine if a rather well known space marine uses one or a purified chaos weapon, it won't be a big deal, but an ordinary guardsman using one will probably be executed.

In the HH series, Lucius of the Emperor's Kid's Legion cuts an arm off of one of the space prawns he duelled on Murder and used it as an extra weapon until he was strongly censored for the heretical deed. If the weapon is of alien origin it's practically deemed heretical to use or even study one.

Personally, having knowledge and skill with enemy weapons sounds like a good idea to me, the more the better.

The Relictors are notorious for using xenos and chaos artifacts. If you wish to read about them there is a story about them in the Armageddon anthology and in Fateweaver's short stories.

In DoW II: Chaos Rising you get access to a lot of wargear during all the missions, some of it corrupted by Chaos. Using these items is an easy way to get Commander Hairgel and his boys to fall to the dark side.

I don't think that any even somewhat reasonable marine would suggest using chaos-tainted weapons or armor but if you have the mental fortitude and redeem yourself through your actions you might be able to pull it off.

Also, I think there's some holier-than-thou Grey Knight Mary Sue that has a daemon weapon but he's not really using any of the powers of the sword in question.

*Looks towards the Blood Ravens chapter*

 Muhr wrote:
In the HH series, Lucius of the Emperor's Kid's Legion cuts an arm off of one of the space prawns he duelled on Murder and used it as an extra weapon until he was strongly censored for the heretical deed. If the weapon is of alien origin it's practically deemed heretical to use or even study one.

Personally, having knowledge and skill with enemy weapons sounds like a good idea to me, the more the better.

Lucius did that again in Fulgrim with a Howling Banshee blade. But, Gulliman keeps racks of weapons as trophies. Most are human or humanoid styled weapons, and he hands those out like candy. Red helmet guy gets one or two to keep and they certainly weren't Imperial issue.

I'm about 60% sure there's some Tyrannic War Veterans that use Nid talons as combat knives.

I just re read the part about him using the enemy weapon. It says he used it and then after he carried back with him he had it reforged and renamed it to something else and uses it now as his primary.

One thing you have to remember, space wolves are the animal house of the imperium. They get away with a lot they shouldnt.

Very true, I mean, they have a bit of a feud with the Inquisition, few can pull that off and not be melted into a puddlr, removed from all records, and be denied acceptance of the fact they existed.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
In DoW II: Chaos Rising you get access to a lot of wargear during all the missions, some of it corrupted by Chaos. Using these items is an easy way to get Commander Hairgel and his boys to fall to the dark side.

I don't think that any even somewhat reasonable marine would suggest using chaos-tainted weapons or armor but if you have the mental fortitude and redeem yourself through your actions you might be able to pull it off.

Also, I think there's some holier-than-thou Grey Knight Mary Sue that has a daemon weapon but he's not really using any of the powers of the sword in question.

And on top of that I believe there are some Chaos items in DoW II that can be reconsecrated, reconfiguring their stats and removing all traces of corruption. I'm sure I've heard further mentions of reconsecrating wargear recovered from traitors. I think it's just a matter of whether the weapon in question is CURRENTLY tainted while in use. Now that seems like some bad juju.

It's reconsecrated. I'm sure that makes a huge difference in the legality of the thing.

It's impossible to reconsecrate a xenos weapon because that weapon was never human in the first place, so the Lucius example doesn't apply.

Likewise, the Relictors did NOT reconsecrate their chaos weapons. So again, that example doesn't apply.

The best contrast is probably the Blood Ravens one, where using Chaos weapons without reconsecration is bad, but using ones after reconsecration is okay. Of course, that's a videogame so the canonicity in the first place is questionable but I don't see why that line of reasoning wouldn't work with Logan's weapon (and maybe Gulliman's, though I dunno if reconsecrating at that time was even a thing yet).

Commisar Yarrick uses an Ork Power Klaw. Which fascinates me actually. Ork weapons is cobbeled up scrap made to look somewhat like weapons and effectively functions as weapons. Whenever looked at more closely by the other races it's realized that they shouldn't really work at all. But in the hands of the Orks they work because a vast majority of them believe they work.
I theorize that because most Orks think that Commisar Yarrick is the most Orky of the Oomies all their tech will work for him as well. He doesn't even have to believe he's Orky, the Ork belief is doing it all. For extra Heresy points I'll also theorize that the only reason the Emporer is still alive is because the Orks believe he is alive and want to 'av anuver go as a racial memory from the days of The Beast.

You sir, win all of the heresy points, besides the extra credit option of suggesting chaos is just really misunderstood, and just needs a stern talking to. I also find it pretty unique Yarrick uses an ork weapon, AKA something that only works for a greenskin.

Yarrick ressurected only when Ork models were present (dunno if that's his current rules anymore, though) and was painted in official paint jobs with a greenish tint. It's possible he's so powerful and strong (and that his power klaw actually works for him) because he's unknowingly powered by Waaagh energy.

As for the hereticalness, I imagine people dont' call him out on his tech heresy because A) He's Yarrick, and B) Ork Tech is so wonky that the Adeptus Mechanicus doesn't see it as a threat to their monopoly or anything. IE, there's no ban on ork tech because no one in their right mind would use ork tech in the first place. That's my own personal theory though. It's never really addressed to my knowledg.

I think Yarrick's Power Klaw wouldn't stand under current Mechanicus canon at all but gets grandfathered in because it's nifty, many people have and use the model, and it's cool as heck. You'll never see another AoM character using Ork tech, I'd imagine. Or, if we want to explain this properly, there's a chance that the Klaw was essentially inert with regard to WAAAGH! energy when it was recovered. Tech-priests probably had to do a number on it to get it working again. And who knows, maybe it was even originally based on looted Imperial tech. We may never know.

Yep, rule of cool wins with Yarrick.

Keep in mind, though, that Ork weapons don't always function solely because of the Ork psychic-gestalt. Many Ork weapons are fully mechanically functional. Think of it more as Orks having a telekinetic 'nudge' that turns an 'almost works' into a fully functional device.

The whole 'it works ONLY because Orks think it does' thing isn't really what the fluff suggests. It's more subtle and less absolute than that.

Note that Armageddon Ork Hunters are notorious for reusing Ork guns and equipment. If telekinetic power was required to make Ork equipment operate that wouldn't be a thing, choppas aside. (That tendency gets the Ork Hunters in hot water pretty regularly as I recall, along with their predilection for aping Ork mannerisms and kustoms.)

My two cents.

I'd still like to lean more towards the idea that his PK is powered by the Ork Waaagh! I get what you mean and I certainly wouldn't discount it. But I'd like to offer up some fluff that may help my theory. Follow along, convoluted as the logic may seem you will find rich rewards at the end.

Ghazzy is no ordinary Warboss. Even without any formal education whatsoever Ghazzy is by human standards an utter genius. Not the savant like genius of the Meks. Ghazzy is fully aware of the big picture, of the strengths and weaknesses of different clanz then his own and how to effectively deploy them including proper timing for co-ordination (he had to knock some speed freak heads to teach them but he got it worked out). What I do find interesting is that he's also completely aware Waaagh! energy and the purpose behind increasing it as well as how to maintain it, indeed this seems to be his galactic wide mission as he moves from one great waaaagh to another in order to boost the beacon and turn the waaaaagh into something perpetual that doesn't lose steam. The way he purposefully and creatively plays with his Ork crowd has me even believing he understands how the waaaaagh! energy works with their positive beliefs and even that it triggers adolescent growth spurts in his troops. It's these creative displays that I'll now get into concerning Yarrick.

Ghazzy had once caught the pursuing Yarrick alive after leaving Armageddon the first time and had him as a captive. He told his Orks that the first invasion was to learn about Ooomies and that he now knew everything he needed to know about Ooomies and he decided to use Yarrick as the example to teach his Orks as well as to show the Orks his own complete dominance over an Ooomie hero. He warned his Orks that while most Oomies are soft not all are the same and some can be real 'ard. So he then tossed Yarrick into certain death situations that always killed other Ooomies and said watch Yarrick will not only survive and escape he'll come right back here trying to kill everyone. Sure enough Yarrick did each time and came straight for Ghazzy each time. When Ghazzy felt the point was made he let Yarrick go and told Yarrick to warn the others that he knows how Ooomies work and they better prepare because he's coming back and is spoiling for a good fight!

This not only triggered a surge of confidance in his audience as well as himself, and thus triggering another moment of adolescence and increased his beacon. But it also cemented Yarrick's reputation with the Orks as well, having not only now learned that the rare Ooomie is 'ard like an Ork, but they can also give one of them a name. Yarrick. Just like an Ork Warboss a worthy name amongst Orks spreads like wild fire and I believe his PK works because the Orks believe he's the Ooomie equivalent of an Ork.

In the deathwatch core rule book players are allowed to loot ammo off of chaos marines they get corruption points for doing so however. I think as a general rule of thumb using a chaos weapon in the heat of battle is fine, However bringing a chaos weapon with you is a no no

Gauntlets of Macragge are reconsecrated Chaos gauntlets originally worn my Calgar himself, and while it's an extreme example from an older edition, the 13th company of the Space Wolves are actual marines from the Heresy-era legion using reconsecrated and looted Chaos Marines armor and weapons to replace what they lose to battle damage.

Lots of human and marine characters use reconsecrated material from zenos or chaos origins. If the actual author of the Codex can wear ex- chaos weapons, it cant be that outlandish as to be heresy, oddly enough..

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I'd still like to lean more towards the idea that his PK is powered by the Ork Waaagh! I get what you mean and I certainly wouldn't discount it. But I'd like to offer up some fluff that may help my theory. Follow along, convoluted as the logic may seem you will find rich rewards at the end.

Ghazzy is no ordinary Warboss. Even without any formal education whatsoever Ghazzy is by human standards an utter genius. Not the savant like genius of the Meks. Ghazzy is fully aware of the big picture, of the strengths and weaknesses of different clanz then his own and how to effectively deploy them including proper timing for co-ordination (he had to knock some speed freak heads to teach them but he got it worked out). What I do find interesting is that he's also completely aware Waaagh! energy and the purpose behind increasing it as well as how to maintain it, indeed this seems to be his galactic wide mission as he moves from one great waaaagh to another in order to boost the beacon and turn the waaaaagh into something perpetual that doesn't lose steam. The way he purposefully and creatively plays with his Ork crowd has me even believing he understands how the waaaaagh! energy works with their positive beliefs and even that it triggers adolescent growth spurts in his troops. It's these creative displays that I'll now get into concerning Yarrick.

Ghazzy had once caught the pursuing Yarrick alive after leaving Armageddon the first time and had him as a captive. He told his Orks that the first invasion was to learn about Ooomies and that he now knew everything he needed to know about Ooomies and he decided to use Yarrick as the example to teach his Orks as well as to show the Orks his own complete dominance over an Ooomie hero. He warned his Orks that while most Oomies are soft not all are the same and some can be real 'ard. So he then tossed Yarrick into certain death situations that always killed other Ooomies and said watch Yarrick will not only survive and escape he'll come right back here trying to kill everyone. Sure enough Yarrick did each time and came straight for Ghazzy each time. When Ghazzy felt the point was made he let Yarrick go and told Yarrick to warn the others that he knows how Ooomies work and they better prepare because he's coming back and is spoiling for a good fight!

This not only triggered a surge of confidance in his audience as well as himself, and thus triggering another moment of adolescence and increased his beacon. But it also cemented Yarrick's reputation with the Orks as well, having not only now learned that the rare Ooomie is 'ard like an Ork, but they can also give one of them a name. Yarrick. Just like an Ork Warboss a worthy name amongst Orks spreads like wild fire and I believe his PK works because the Orks believe he's the Ooomie equivalent of an Ork.

Exalted

I do remember a couple of places where fluff says that the Deathwatch, or members of it, were known to use xenos weapons of the races they were adept at combating, or felt that those weapons were super effective against whatever xenos threat they were facing.

In the siege of vraks and at least one of the other imperial armor books, there were multiple examples of IG and SM vehicles having been reconsecrated.

Also, with Yarrick, I am sure his deeds and sheer badassery allows him to keep the claw indefinitely and without disagreement.
-And I doubt anyone would volunteer to be the one who has to go up to Yarrick and tell him he can't have his orky klaw anymore.

From what I have read, its seems like if the weapon is reconsecrated, or you are powerful/badass/deadly enough to defy any pesky inquisitors, then its A-Okay.