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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think they started on the wrong foot, too. Leaving exciting minis like the hunter and the shadow guy off the front page just ensured more backers would never see them. I think an awful lot of backers are like Bart's teacher, and you only get one chance with Edna Krabapple.

I think that I've come to understand, gradually, what is wrong with the campaign: core competency, or rather, an exceeding thereof. That is,

ME has Rules done by people that have worked with rules for years, polishing, trimming and filling an increasingly unwieldy system into something that is tournament friendly.

ME has Art done by people that are clearly not only proficient, but have a coherent aesthetic that they want to explore.

ME has Story done by writers that are eager to flesh out a new universe, to explore old tropes in new and interesting ways.

What ME (or SAS, better put) doesn't appear to have, is someone dealing with the Kickstarter foremost as an exercise in selling. This is seen in campaigns all the time, and it explains why sometimes amazing products fall through the cracks, but mediocre products that are well sold grow explosively. There is an art to selling, to its psychology and practice, and it just doesn't seem that the SAS team is thinking about it the right way.

Consider the three (well, 2 and half) bullet points I addressed to the team in an earlier post;

 Buzzsaw wrote:

-Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?

-What is the selling point of this game?

-What's with the...

I think these are pretty elemental questions that an advertisement (and make no mistake, a kickstarter campaign page is first and foremost an advertisement) needs to address, quickly and unambiguously. Yet two (at least) people associated with SAS responded to my post in whole or in part, and I find myself no closer to answering these questions then before they responded.

Think of it another way: "I have a friend that like X, I think they would be interested in Maelstrom's Edge." What is X? When you think about your friends, that don't frequent Dakka, what is the characteristic that would make you say "I definitly need to let them know about this campaign".

I'll use just one example: I mentioned and harped on the fact that the term "Hard Sci-Fi" had disappeared from the kickstarter. The answer given was 'it was just a matter of space for words'. Let's not think about this in terms of a game, but purely in terms of advertising: call them buzzwords or key terms or whatever, things like 'Hard Sci-Fi' convey a lot of information to the potential buyer.

Imagine you saw a write-up for a movie that described it as 'Gothic Horror'. Then, shortly after all, you notice that the term 'Gothic' had been completely scrubbed from all the advertising. It's immediately confusing, and makes you think that either the first series of write-ups was deceptive, or that, perhaps, the makers didn't quite understand the terms they were using for their own product.

Gothic, Steampunk, Deiselpunk, Science-Fantasy, Hard Sci-Fi, Dystopian, Apocalyptic; all of these terms are loaded with meaning for the buyer, and when you see them appear and disappear, it makes you wonder "what is going on?". I'm not saying they shouldn't have used the term, or they should have kept it in, I'm saying that casually using such a loaded term and then completely dropping it creates confusion.

In and of itself, it's a tiny matter, but it may be a clue to why this campaign simply hasn't 'clicked' in the way that people expected it to.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think they started on the wrong foot, too. Leaving exciting minis like the hunter and the shadow guy off the front page just ensured more backers would never see them. I think an awful lot of backers are like Bart's teacher, and you only get one chance with Edna Krabapple.

I think that I've come to understand, gradually, what is wrong with the campaign: core competency, or rather, an exceeding thereof. That is,

ME has Rules done by people that have worked with rules for years, polishing, trimming and filling an increasingly unwieldy system into something that is tournament friendly.

ME has Art done by people that are clearly not only proficient, but have a coherent aesthetic that they want to explore.

ME has Story done by writers that are eager to flesh out a new universe, to explore old tropes in new and interesting ways.

What ME (or SAS, better put) doesn't appear to have, is someone dealing with the Kickstarter foremost as an exercise in selling. This is seen in campaigns all the time, and it explains why sometimes amazing products fall through the cracks, but mediocre products that are well sold grow explosively. There is an art to selling, to its psychology and practice, and it just doesn't seem that the SAS team is thinking about it the right way.

Consider the three (well, 2 and half) bullet points I addressed to the team in an earlier post;

 Buzzsaw wrote:

-Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?

-What is the selling point of this game?

-What's with the...

I think these are pretty elemental questions that an advertisement (and make no mistake, a kickstarter campaign page is first and foremost an advertisement) needs to address, quickly and unambiguously. Yet two (at least) people associated with SAS responded to my post in whole or in part, and I find myself no closer to answering these questions then before they responded.

Think of it another way: "I have a friend that like X, I think they would be interested in Maelstrom's Edge." What is X? When you think about your friends, that don't frequent Dakka, what is the characteristic that would make you say "I definitly need to let them know about this campaign".

I'll use just one example: I mentioned and harped on the fact that the term "Hard Sci-Fi" had disappeared from the kickstarter. The answer given was 'it was just a matter of space for words'. Let's not think about this in terms of a game, but purely in terms of advertising: call them buzzwords or key terms or whatever, things like 'Hard Sci-Fi' convey a lot of information to the potential buyer.

Imagine you saw a write-up for a movie that described it as 'Gothic Horror'. Then, shortly after all, you notice that the term 'Gothic' had been completely scrubbed from all the advertising. It's immediately confusing, and makes you think that either the first series of write-ups was deceptive, or that, perhaps, the makers didn't quite understand the terms they were using for their own product.

Gothic, Steampunk, Deiselpunk, Science-Fantasy, Hard Sci-Fi, Dystopian, Apocalyptic; all of these terms are loaded with meaning for the buyer, and when you see them appear and disappear, it makes you wonder "what is going on?". I'm not saying they shouldn't have used the term, or they should have kept it in, I'm saying that casually using such a loaded term and then completely dropping it creates confusion.

In and of itself, it's a tiny matter, but it may be a clue to why this campaign simply hasn't 'clicked' in the way that people expected it to.

I'm not denying that bringing across a project that is trying to hit on all levels of game, miniatures and universe of this scale in a few weeks of marketing is challenging, but having written the text you are talking about, I can assure you that there was no attempt to make the words hard SF disappear from the Kickstarter. The exact text that was originally in there was as follows:

When we set down to design the Maelstrom's Edge universe, we wanted to create a setting that would do justice to the game and miniatures. As gamers, we know that collecting an army from a deep and detailed setting is more satisfying than painting generic figures. We wanted to give our players a universe where they could explore and create, not just in our fiction but also when building their models and playing the game. To achieve that, we observe the following design goals:

A Believeable Universe – Increasingly in science fiction there has been a push towards grittier, more believable settings, but few games have embraced this style of fiction. We wanted a universe that was morally complex and populated with flawed characters – the technology may have changed, but mankind still faces the same problems it always has.

High-stakes – The design of both the Maelstrom’s advance and the relative difficulty of interstellar travel means that it is intentionally impossible for everyone to escape its destructive clutches. Worlds do not have the time or resources to evacuate everyone before they are destroyed. This forces the characters in our universe to confront cold, hard choices about what they do in the face of this implacable enemy – do they run, or try to save as many others as they can? Do they fight for the last remaining ships, or loot the helpless? By forcing humanity into such a difficult position, we want to encourage nuanced, morally grey decisions and characters.

Morally ambiguous – With the initial design goal to create a miniatures game where players would battle a number of different factions against each other, we wanted each of these factions to have a legitimate reason for conflict. There is no absolute good or evil faction in Maelstrom’s Edge – each organisation has its own understandable motives for the way it acts. We have also made sure to include friction within each organisation, to allow fights both between different factions and between splinter groups within each of them - so that if you and your opponent turn up with armies from the same faction, there's a logical reason why they might be fighting each other!

Scientifically rigorous – With believability key, we tried to keep the universe as rooted in the laws of physics as possible, whilst ensuring that when we did invent new things such as faster-than-light travel through the cybel network and alien lifeforms like the Angels, we constructed them to be internally consistent and believable. We want to avoid magic, psychics and other deus ex machina events unless backed up by a plausible scientific or technological explanation.

Unique – we wanted to avoid copying the over-used tropes of science fiction and create a universe that felt different to those that had come before. All our factions are carefully designed to avoid relying on a single source of inspiration from either fictional or historical influences. Maelstrom’s Edge is set in such a distant epoch that much of where humanity came from has been forgotten.

Not once do the words 'hard scifi' appear. We do however want a universe that is scientifically rigorous in terms of following scientific laws where appropriate, and where we stray from them, rigorous in its creation so that it makes sense within the universe, so that our fiction doesn't contradict itself. For example, I've spent a lot of time designing the interlinking mechanics of the cybel network and Maelstrom so that we get the balance right between a threat that drives our universe forward and forces characters and factions to make hard decisions, but whilst still offering them the hope of escape. I have a masters in astrophysics, a PhD in chemical physics and I work as a postdoctoral researcher in the Department of Materials at the University of Oxford, so although I really don't claim this to be a hard science fiction universe, I do hope to make it at least rigorous in its design based on my experience working in the scientific field.

I'm sure that we could do better with some aspects of our marketing - we're not perfect, we're a bunch of guys that got together to make a game the way we always wanted to, trying to get as high quality a ruleset, background, fiction and set of miniatures as we could, and based on the fact that we've done this from scratch under our own power I'm pretty proud of what we've created.

If you would like to make suggestions about how we can market our universe better, please feel free to make suggestions. But we do want to make it clear the facts of what was actually changed and why.

I'm in on this for sure. I know I'd personally like to hear more about other factions that will/may appear.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think they started on the wrong foot, too. Leaving exciting minis like the hunter and the shadow guy off the front page just ensured more backers would never see them. I think an awful lot of backers are like Bart's teacher, and you only get one chance with Edna Krabapple.

I think that I've come to understand, gradually, what is wrong with the campaign: core competency, or rather, an exceeding thereof. That is,

ME has Rules done by people that have worked with rules for years, polishing, trimming and filling an increasingly unwieldy system into something that is tournament friendly.

ME has Art done by people that are clearly not only proficient, but have a coherent aesthetic that they want to explore.

ME has Story done by writers that are eager to flesh out a new universe, to explore old tropes in new and interesting ways.

What ME (or SAS, better put) doesn't appear to have, is someone dealing with the Kickstarter foremost as an exercise in selling. This is seen in campaigns all the time, and it explains why sometimes amazing products fall through the cracks, but mediocre products that are well sold grow explosively. There is an art to selling, to its psychology and practice, and it just doesn't seem that the SAS team is thinking about it the right way.

Consider the three (well, 2 and half) bullet points I addressed to the team in an earlier post;

 Buzzsaw wrote:

-Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?

-What is the selling point of this game?

-What's with the...

I think these are pretty elemental questions that an advertisement (and make no mistake, a kickstarter campaign page is first and foremost an advertisement) needs to address, quickly and unambiguously. Yet two (at least) people associated with SAS responded to my post in whole or in part, and I find myself no closer to answering these questions then before they responded.

Think of it another way: "I have a friend that like X, I think they would be interested in Maelstrom's Edge." What is X? When you think about your friends, that don't frequent Dakka, what is the characteristic that would make you say "I definitly need to let them know about this campaign".

I'll use just one example: I mentioned and harped on the fact that the term "Hard Sci-Fi" had disappeared from the kickstarter. The answer given was 'it was just a matter of space for words'. Let's not think about this in terms of a game, but purely in terms of advertising: call them buzzwords or key terms or whatever, things like 'Hard Sci-Fi' convey a lot of information to the potential buyer.

Imagine you saw a write-up for a movie that described it as 'Gothic Horror'. Then, shortly after all, you notice that the term 'Gothic' had been completely scrubbed from all the advertising. It's immediately confusing, and makes you think that either the first series of write-ups was deceptive, or that, perhaps, the makers didn't quite understand the terms they were using for their own product.

Gothic, Steampunk, Deiselpunk, Science-Fantasy, Hard Sci-Fi, Dystopian, Apocalyptic; all of these terms are loaded with meaning for the buyer, and when you see them appear and disappear, it makes you wonder "what is going on?". I'm not saying they shouldn't have used the term, or they should have kept it in, I'm saying that casually using such a loaded term and then completely dropping it creates confusion.

In and of itself, it's a tiny matter, but it may be a clue to why this campaign simply hasn't 'clicked' in the way that people expected it to.

I actually agree with this post. This project has been tailor-made for a very specific group of people, but in its pragmatism and complete honesty, fails to convince people outside that group with the usual flashy art and promises of amazing models yet to come. There's just not enough magic and mystery, it's all laid bare and frankly not exciting enough for many people.

Another related point is that I think there has been almost too much communication. You have tons of team members excitedly answering the same questions in the news thread, to the point where it's such a mess of information that it's easier just to scroll past everything. I think there's something to be said for having one pr person who answers questions in a clear, consistent manner, while holding back some parts to avoid information overload.

I think it's partly a question of putting too much stock in what people say they want, as opposed to what actually gets them to open their wallets.

 yakface wrote:

The rules are far from finished, so any legitimate constructive criticism about them is more than welcome. In fact, once the KS ends we will be doing a beta test period where we'll be desperately looking for such feedback.

However, the rules intro PDF naturally left a lot of fine details out of the picture in order to keep things relatively brief. So if you're finding just those core details baffling its pretty unlikely that those would be able to be changed, as they are obviously core to the overall design of the game.

I'd hope that when people see the full spectrum of the game with the faction/unit rules in place, etc, that you'd like it even more, but I know that every person has their own opinions of what they're looking for in a game and what makes a game good and/or bad, and that's just the reality of the world. If it was possible to create a 'perfect' set of rules that everyone loved, naturally someone would have done it by now! I tried to write the game that I always wanted to play (within the heavy restrictions of having to deal with the realities of model production) and hope that enough people out there have had similar desires over the years. The playtesting we've done so far has been pretty positive, so I'm hopeful, but I do know that many people will absolutely hate it, and am also ready for that.

I do like the artwork of the Mecha-Robots that I've just seen in this thread, and I don't mind the Religious guys (sans batfish), but realistically at this point I'd be looking at a $10 PDF which is more a show of support and goodwill to the hosts of Dakka than anything else - since I can't try and play the proper rules for free as I did with KoW (which has resulted in over a thousand dollars worth of buy-in just for KoW product in the last few years, as well as their other games.) As a PDF, it's at least as likely to sit around in my gaming folder unused alongside SoB&H, rather than find its way into active rotation. While I understand and respect your decision not to be proxy-friendly, that's essentially the big buy-in for me. Being able to (easily) use as many of the thousands of dollars worth of figures I've accumulated over my lifetime.

The background/fluff adds nothing to me. I'm not excited by it so I'd just ignore it completely. Please don't feel specifically slighted when I write that, as it applies to many (most!) game fictions, from Mantica to End-Times-era Old World to RH and RBG and Shoeldwolf and Minion's "unique" universes. This leave me lacking anything to draw me in, aside from an enjoyment of this website. Figures that knocked me on my arse with their amazingness in sufficient quantities would also do it, but the sculpts here are a mixed bag, and in the tiny quantities they're offered here, I just can't even pretend to want to care. 16 foot troops plus some bats and drones isn't worth my time to invest in another new game, let alone at a cost of US$90 (or $180) plus shipping.

I know I'm often critical of KS campaigns here, but the most disappointing thing for me here is that there's just no hook that works for me. I'm sure the rules will be good, but without the easy option to use my existing models and factions in place or alongside those figures that I dislike, I just kinda shrug and feel nothing about this project. It's like a much more well-organised and run Gates of Antares in a lot of ways to me. Priestly is a big part of why I'm here, but the figures/value/background just left me feeling blank. This one is very much the same.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

I actually agree with this post. This project has been tailor-made for a very specific group of people, but in its pragmatism and complete honesty, fails to convince people outside that group with the usual flashy art and promises of amazing models yet to come. There's just not enough magic and mystery, it's all laid bare and frankly not exciting enough for many people.

Another related point is that I think there has been almost too much communication. You have tons of team members excitedly answering the same questions in the news thread, to the point where it's such a mess of information that it's easier just to scroll past everything. I think there's something to be said for having one pr person who answers questions in a clear, consistent manner, while holding back some parts to avoid information overload.

I think it's partly a question of putting too much stock in what people say they want, as opposed to what actually gets them to open their wallets.

There's not enough stuff to make me open my wallet. if we put aside the facts that this is both made by the people who own/run Dakka and is a Kickstarter, when I look at the contents is there enough content/product there to make me part with a hundred dollars?



Even if I liked all of the models, the $90 was in AU$ rather than US$, and it would ship for free tomorrow from a local source, I wouldn't buy it. 16 human models, 8 drones, 4 fish and 2 unseen models. And some new, non-established rules with templates & dice. The WM or Hordes starter boxes cost about the same, are a heavily established and proven set of game rules, and come with big impressive models.

This is a KS to pay for now, set to ship in December (so, say, hopefully by March) without enough stuff to make it interesting enough for me to buy it off the shelf tomorrow for the price. Figures are a kind of "insurance" for boxed games. Even if you never end up playing the game, you hopefully end up with a bunch of cool models you can paint up and hopefully use in other games. So a boxed miniatures game needs to be worthwhile in purely miniatures terms. The (perceived) value of the included figures really needs to outstrip the cost of the box, without taking the rules, tokens and dice into consideration. This is especially true for a new, unproven property.

Buzzsaw's analysis of our marketing/PR issues is very much spot-on and it is the one part of the project where we were under prepared.

We are absolutely confident that people will see the end quality of the game once they have it in hand and we will see strong organic growth, while we also learn on the run and improve our marketing and PR.

Today, we'll be putting out a major update and adding a load of stuff to the core boxed set (for free), to really push the value to the maximum.

As a direct response to your questions:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is feeling tired or uninspired by the other games on the market at the moment, but still loves wargaming and painting and modeling.
Long answer:

If you find yourself unable to paint huge armies but want a tactically deep game, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

If you want multi-part, multi-pose plastic models which are trivial to convert and have detail down to 0.1mm (the finest in the industry), then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

If you are bored of rulesets that are just minor evolutions/copies of others and want to try a game with a strong tactical dynamic then Maelstrom's Edge is for you. (Doubly so if you enjoy throwing large handfuls of dice around).

If you don't like to paint models for the sake of painting, but instead want to feel connected to a deeper universe with (by industry standards) absolutely top grade fiction and artwork then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

If you want to learn to paint with an airbrush, then you'll find all of our models have been designed to make airbrush painting fast and easy, and are a great way to learn.

If you like building dioramas, then our flexible plastics and modular terrain will scratch that itch at a great price.

If you don't like buying a boxed set with a bunch of snap-together monopose models, and want to have real choice in your army building options every time you get a set, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

If you want to be part of a major sci-fi universe from day one, watching it evolve and improve, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

If you are tired of playing games where you have no hope of ever communicating with the rules team, fiction team or model team, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

-What is the selling point of this game?
Ultimately, no other game on the market combines such a deep universe with a well thought out ruleset, versatile and detailed plastic models, ease of painting and a good price*

* Wait until later today to comment on any pricing thoughts as that is being shaken up

Mymearan wrote:

I actually agree with this post. This project has been tailor-made for a very specific group of people, but in its pragmatism and complete honesty, fails to convince people outside that group with the usual flashy art and promises of amazing models yet to come. There's just not enough magic and mystery, it's all laid bare and frankly not exciting enough for many people.

Another related point is that I think there has been almost too much communication. You have tons of team members excitedly answering the same questions in the news thread, to the point where it's such a mess of information that it's easier just to scroll past everything. I think there's something to be said for having one pr person who answers questions in a clear, consistent manner, while holding back some parts to avoid information overload.

I think it's partly a question of putting too much stock in what people say they want, as opposed to what actually gets them to open their wallets.

Perhaps you are right, but I've seen just as much criticism on projects which only speak very briefly through one PR mouthpiece and keep things more mysterious, and the other risk with that approach is your game is not being defined by you, but by the discussion.

I don't know that there is any perfect way to launch a new product as complex as this, but we want to keep being honest about what we've made because we think in the long term, people will appreciate that more than sales tricks. We're treating this kickstarter as a way of getting people to
know Maelstrom's Edge, not just a sales pitch but also an introduction to our work. We'll see in the future if that's a good move!

That said, both of you have made valid points and we appreciate your feedback. You won't have to wait long for those promised models either - we'll be showing them later today.

 legoburner wrote:
:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is feeling tired or uninspired by the other games on the market at the moment, but still loves wargaming and painting and modeling.

There is the tagline I think Buzzsaw was looking for, but it also confirms my fear when looking over the project again and again - I might not be the target audience. I am the opposite of tired and uninspired, as I personally feel like there has never been a better time to be a wargamer than right now. Our group plays Deadzone, Warmahordes, Infinity, Kings of War, Dreadball, Mordheim and X-wing regularly, while we just started Wrath of Kings and SW: Armada. Every one of those games brings something awesome to the table in terms of gameplay and aesthetic, and the only reason we don't have more listed like Bolt Action or Planetfall is that there is only so much gaming time to go around. Notice that 40k isn't mentioned there once (even though we are more than happy to drag out our models and play a game with 3rd edition or whatever rules we like if the mood strikes). I have been scared from the first announcement that when you say "other games" all you really mean is those people currently disillusioned by 40k. The problem is that the segment of those people might not be as large as you think, and especially being on Kickstarter you are actually fighting harder with the non-40k games for dollars than 40k itself.


We actually had a couple of folks at our shop get wide-eyed when we said a crack team of rules, model, and fluff developers were making a squad-sized "Not-40k". When they saw the aesthetic, lack of faction diversity, and value proposition on day 1 though they both went right back to "We'll just keep playing 40k until we see if Warpath is any good" line that they've been in for over a year now.

Bombad wrote:

 legoburner wrote:
:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is feeling tired or uninspired by the other games on the market at the moment, but still loves wargaming and painting and modeling.

There is the tagline I think Buzzsaw was looking for, but it also confirms my fear when looking over the project again and again - I might not be the target audience. I am the opposite of tired and uninspired, as I personally feel like there has never been a better time to be a wargamer than right now. Our group plays Deadzone, Warmahordes, Infinity, Kings of War, Dreadball, Mordheim and X-wing regularly, while we just started Wrath of Kings and SW: Armada. Every one of those games brings something awesome to the table in terms of gameplay and aesthetic, and the only reason we don't have more listed like Bolt Action or Planetfall is that there is only so much gaming time to go around. Notice that 40k isn't mentioned there once (even though we are more than happy to drag out our models and play a game with 3rd edition or whatever rules we like if the mood strikes). I have been scared from the first announcement that when you say "other games" all you really mean is those people currently disillusioned by 40k. The problem is that the segment of those people might not be as large as you think, and especially being on Kickstarter you are actually fighting harder with the non-40k games for dollars than 40k itself.


We actually had a couple of folks at our shop get wide-eyed when we said a crack team of rules, model, and fluff developers were making a squad-sized "Not-40k". When they saw the aesthetic, lack of faction diversity, and value proposition on day 1 though they both went right back to "We'll just keep playing 40k until we see if Warpath is any good" line that they've been in for over a year now.

I'd originally typed:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is interested in wargaming

but it seemed too bland, and the opposite that I've typed is too blunt as you say - something in between would be the sweet spot, but once again we are learning this type of marketing on the trot, so suggestions are very welcome!

Lego,

I don't want to sound nit-picky, but since it seems like you are looking for honest feedback I thought I would chime in with my personal perspective.

First of all, I don't think I am your target audience. If I take a hard look at my wargaming time/expenditures, there is a definite trend towards small scale, heavily themed skirmish games with boutique miniatures. That's not ME. I am, however, spending more on table top wargaming than I ever have been.

That aside, I have been thinking about the table top wargames market a great deal as I prepare to release my own game/products, and and I think that discussions like this are interesting and productive.

I have found ME to be rather underwhelming. I think a big part of that is the advertising/marketing. ME sort of showed up out of left field, and I even saw it on the DCM forums before the wider announcement. There was a lot of promising without much delivery, by which I mean that you raised expectations by saying that this thing was going to be the best thing since sliced bread that nobody else is doing, and there was sort of an overload of information.

In contrast, for example, I know the name Icarus Miniatures. I know Icarus even though I will likely never buy any of the company's products. But I follow Icarus. I pay attention to Icarus. If I am honest with myself, I get excited about Icarus news. That seems really odd, right?

Icarus has become a regular part of my TTG internet routine because the company has been pretty darn consistently showing a piece of high quality concept art month after month after month after month. At first it was 'Oh, that's neat'. Then it grew to 'Icarus has a nice artist. I like their style'. Then it became 'These guys have got something really cool going on, I want to see where it goes'.

I know the name, I know the brand, I can identify Icarus as the source of a previously unseen piece from a thumbnail.

Same thing with Bad Roll Games. Who the feth is Bad Roll Games? Am I ever going to play Punkapocalyptic? Probably not. But I have almost all of the company's products. Weird, right? The game rules are serviceable, the models are interesting though a bit fiddley with lots of parts, but I really like the company.

Bad Roll always has a little something new going on, whether it is a little piece of artwork, a bit of fluff, a green, whatever. They are not so great on forums, but nevertheless, there's a trickle of consistent, on theme content that has made the company a familiar part of my routine. Follow that up with an overwhelmingly positive retail experience and they have themselves a pretty loyal customer.

Same thing with Infamy miniatures. I know the brand, I know the look, I know the products. Onslaught Miniatures, Skullduggery, Puppets War, Knight Models, etc. and so forth. They have hit me again and again and again with little, digestible bits of advertising. And have built up brand awareness.

Not so with ME. Way out of left field, LOTS of wordy content. Big promises, and WHAM! Kickstarter campaign. I haven't had time to become comfortable with the brand, and what is the actual company...Spiral Arm Studios? I think I got that right off the top of my head. I can't describe your logo though.

My experience may be atypical, but there it is.

Certainly more value than the original set.

I think I may be having problems with the small number of infantry because of the use of the word squad, which to me means 8-10 soldiers when your actually meaning teams of 3-4 soldiers.....so I see six soldiers and I think weakened squad rather than two three man fire teams with mech or angel support.

That's a much more attractive box set.

Errg...I dislike Kickstarter. Is this going to significantly impact SAS's bottom line? Was this value the plan from the get go, or is SAS just trying to juice a so-so campaign in the hopes that funding will catch up to the box set value?

It just seems to me that there is a very real danger of 'chasing the dragon', so to speak, with Kickstarter. I've heard the same story too often.

Anyway, I can't deny that, quite literally, that image of the box contents alone caused me to be more excited about the campaign. There's now that subtle tug to back the campaign. I'm not, because I don't really want this product, but if I was turning a reaction dial it would have gone way up at the sight of the new box contents.

Maybe it is a value thing, maybe a variety thing, maybe a language thing, maybe the hidden models. I'm too close to my own gut reaction to parse it effectively. Nevertheless, the reaction was visceral and identifiable. It would be very interesting to see some advertising studies done on Kickstarter front page contents.

weeble1000 wrote:
That's a much more attractive box set.

Errg...I dislike Kickstarter. Is this going to significantly impact SAS's bottom line? Was this value the plan from the get go, or is SAS just trying to juice a so-so campaign in the hopes that funding will catch up to the box set value?

It just seems to me that there is a very real danger of 'chasing the dragon', so to speak, with Kickstarter. I've heard the same story too often.

The latest kickstarter update more or less clears that question up.

As you've probably noticed above, we've just added a whole bunch more models to our sweet spot pledge! When planning the kickstarter, we were deliberately conservative. We left a healthy margin for ourselves to cover some very low likelihood risks, and planned to include a large number of additional models in the boxset as stretch goals when the volume of demand reached higher levels. The feedback we've received from talking to people on the Kickstarter page and on wargaming forums has made it very clear that people didn't think we had enough models in our $90 pledge. So we've decided to add as many of those additional plastic models as we can, effective immediately. But we still have 7 further unlockable stretch goals to add value to your pledges and the boxed set, so there is plenty of scope for future excitement! (Goal 8 is the second novel, but we are at the kickstarter character limit so have to cut content out to add that in.)

We had some great negotiations with our suppliers on Friday and as a result, and with some careful planning, we are able to fit a fair bit more in the boxed set. One side effect of adding all these additional models is that we have to simplify our packing process, which means that other than the terrain (which is handled at a separate facility), we will not be able to offer other add-ons for the moment. We intend to keep exploring this over the course of the kickstarter to try and find a way to make it work though!

We feel that adding these new models to the box makes the contents an incredible value for just $90. Don't forget - these are all full, multi-part, multi-pose high detail plastic models, allowing you to build forces where no two models look the same, and you'll have loads of spare parts left for conversions, dioramas and terrain when you are done! We've already made the moulds for the pictured miniatures as well, which is the main reason that we are able to have such a short turnaround on this project - HIPS development is a very slow process, but by having all of these models already produced, we have done everything in our power to ensure that we can deliver on our target delivery date of this year.

Looking at the new miniatures, and i honestly have to say I am slightly underwhelmed. In particular the hunter (And yes I know this is a nitpick) and their feet. Don't ask why, i love the rest of the model, but their feet seem... off.

As for the KS, I will definitely be pledging now, now doubt left in my mind. Even if this was a fallback in case of not enough pledges, i say it's worked - at least for me. I might even end up doubling!

It would, however, be great to see units (by that i mainly mean scarecrows, their models look great) as add-ons - I would definitely add a few more scarecrows.
Becoming less excited about the karists, however, although the angel could pique my interest.

I know earlier I said the KS shouldn't be judged solely by the way it started, and I apologise for the way it was phrased. I didn't mean you were wrong by saying it had flatlined, you might prove to be correct, I was merely stating that you shouldn't write it off at the beginning. As for whether or not the kickstarter worked, they are past 150% of their target already.

Anyway, merely the thoughts of a lowly technomat, keep up the great work SAS!

I wasn't sure if I should address this. Please understand I am not trying to be critical here, but rather helpful. However, this post here speaks to glaring weaknesses with how you are promoting the campaign, and likely the eventual retail release.

 legoburner wrote:
Buzzsaw's analysis of our marketing/PR issues is very much spot-on and it is the one part of the project where we were under prepared.

We are absolutely confident that people will see the end quality of the game once they have it in hand and we will see strong organic growth, while we also learn on the run and improve our marketing and PR.

Today, we'll be putting out a major update and adding a load of stuff to the core boxed set (for free), to really push the value to the maximum.

The update was great. It really added a lot of perceived value to the main pledge level. Hopefully, you will be able to give us more information on all aspects of the product soon enough for our feedback to help shape the endgame of the kickstarter. Stretch goals for dice, for example, are somewhat uninspiring. If you need that 'fake stretch goal' in place to mitigate the huge price of the terrain sprue stretch goal--the goal everyone actually wants to hit--maybe add some more inexpensive content to appeal to different types? Maybe, "Stretch Goal 2: more dice, first international tournament event (Operation Fire Break) locked in, and we'll reveal what the Epirians really don't want you to know about Zycanthus." A sweetspot pdf of the design art can legitimize a stretch goal that might otherwise just add tokens. You can even add some in-universe fun to them and announce how many puppy-eyed refugees each stretch goal managed to ship off of Zycanthus.

As a direct response to your questions:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is feeling tired or uninspired by the other games on the market at the moment, but still loves wargaming and painting and modeling.
Long answer:

If you find yourself unable to paint huge armies but want a tactically deep game, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

This is terrible. This isn't a sales pitch but a justification. You can't keep pointing out how Medge isn't 40k and then sell yourself as "tired of 40k? Medge!"

It sounds like you are offering a Total Gaming Experience, but for some reason are not selling Medge that way. You have:

-Rules designed for tournament play that simulate modern or near-future combat, with an emphasis on suppression, command, whatever. I don't know rules, but the people who like yours like them for a reason, and you should be shouting that reason. Also, you designed this game for tournament play and events, so please hype the hell out of that.

-Background is developed with the intent for immersive storylines that draw people towards their favorite armies. If you can name-drop the professional writers who are interested in your background, it would really help sell it as something worth investigating. One of GW's biggest sales tools is the Black Library, and I can't emphasize enough how much money that synergy between consumable fiction and collectible minis has made for GW just from my pocket alone. I'll post my thoughts on the story later, but for right now I find the biggest issue with the background is that it does not inspire me to break out some minis and blow gak up. The background should interact more with the games we play and the factions we choose. When we know what lies inside the Maestrom, that will help, assuming it's something worth fighting for or against in a military capacity. Or you could have the factions determine how to close cybel networks or redirect wave fronts to annihilate enemy worlds, so that each battle or campaign has epic consequences. And, no, I don't think it's fun to play a game to determine which side leaves behind fewer refugees on the doomed planet this week.

Honestly, it feels like you're dancing around the real strength of your background. David Drake made a career out of putting his Vietnam issues in space; you have a game where the wealthy elite send countless drones and recent highschool graduates out to blow up refugee camps in the hopes of eliminating violent religious extremists who use suicide tactics and (animal) slavery. So, why is the Maelstrom more like global warming when it would make more sense for your forces to spill space-blood for space-oil while spreading space-freedom? This is a narrative that we are all familiar with and will respond to.

-Miniatures. You have some great miniatures that no one else is competing with, but they aren't the minis you showcased in the critical first days. The drones and robots and aliens are all things no one else has in HIPS yet, and they make your product stand out. Wage slave soldiers and faceless stormtrooper types are literally 20 for $20 from several competitors right now. Be like water and strike where your opponent is weak, man. And keep in mind the great strength of plastic: the scale. If you sell boxes of 5 Contractors for barely cheaper than a box of 5 resin/metal/whatever minis everywhere else, you won't sell very many. Mantic sure seems to see the value in huge boxes with huge discounts per mini.

-Community. Being THE Dakka game should make this a no-brainer. Medge has a built in community. The creators are available to even the lowliest backer or potential customer. I'd love to see some discussions going, about the minis, the rules, the fluff, the prettiest color for cybel, why working for the Foundation is better than a McJob, whatever. At the very least, you have the ability to create and promote worldwide campaigns that will impact the evolving storyline. You can make each player feel important and connected. That's powerful.

So, what am I seeing here? How about a total package wargame. "Read the books and get psyched, then chose a strike force from your favorite faction, sign up for the next big tournament with all your buddies, and go bust some heads!" Medge has the potential to be an immersive experience. In my opinion, that is the strongest selling point.

(It's also why 40k is so hard to leave.)

To sum up: build up your game without any reference to any other games. Why do YOU like Medge?

If you want multi-part, multi-pose plastic models which are trivial to convert and have detail down to 0.1mm (the finest in the industry), then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

No. It isn't.


That's Dreamforge and GW's schtick. And resin boutiques can 'beat' you on detail just by reputation.

Plastic is good, but any talk about fine details is just going to backfire. You have finely engineered plastic robots. You have plastic gribbly aliens. You have cheap plastic mooks to give them something to murderize for our entertainment, but those guys don't get coffee because they aren't your closers. What would YOU want to buy from Medge if you were a long time kickstarter user with tons of CMON, Mantic and Sedition Wars crap?

Hint: Cincydooley and Azazelx have both pledged for more minis kickstarters than some nations have citizens, and they're taking a pass on this. They might know a bit about why people spend money on minis, so it might be worthwhile to get their input.

If you are bored of rulesets that are just minor evolutions/copies of others and want to try a game with a strong tactical dynamic then Maelstrom's Edge is for you. (Doubly so if you enjoy throwing large handfuls of dice around).

EVERY game is tactically dynamic. Easy to learn but hard to master. Deep and wide and zzzzzzzzzzzz. Please use fewer pointless generalities and talk about what specific mechanics make your game fun and unique. Why did you choose those mechanics? If you tell the playtesters what feel you are going for, I'm sure they can help smooth your rules into something superb.

Thge first sentence on your kickstarter page should explain what makes your game good. "Use our ultra-modern command system to get the right unit to the objective while your fire teams suppress your opponent's crucial unit at the critical moment in a game of feint and counter-feint." Or something like that. But more interesting.

If you don't like to paint models for the sake of painting, but instead want to feel connected to a deeper universe with (by industry standards) absolutely top grade fiction and artwork then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

Yes. Better. But try less negativity in the phrasing. "Bring new joy to your painting table as you breathe life into your favorite teams from our top grade fiction by some of today's most exciting authors"

If you want to learn to paint with an airbrush, then you'll find all of our models have been designed to make airbrush painting fast and easy, and are a great way to learn.

This should go in the comments somewhere, but doesn't really feel like a selling point. "If you've got expensive equipment and money to burn, please send a little our way?"

If you like building dioramas, then our flexible plastics and modular terrain will scratch that itch at a great price.

Terrain. Dioramas. Fiction. I smell contest. This is fertile ground for some kind of community interaction. I would like to know more.

If you don't like buying a boxed set with a bunch of snap-together monopose models, and want to have real choice in your army building options every time you get a set, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

Less boo on them, more yay on you. Please, tell us more about the Hunter's fine engineering. Got lots of pics? They'd be great right now.

Want to show us all the different effects a simple basecoat and wash can bring out on the angels and minnows? Wow, that makes me want to buy more to try out some new techniques! You mean, you can use one up wing and one down wing to model a turning or injured minnow? I never would have thought such a simple kit could do so much!

You can use the Epirian's spare weapons and some terrain sprue bits to make an awesome bunker? I'm sold. Modular plastics are the best.

If you want to be part of a major sci-fi universe from day one, watching it evolve and improve, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

This is good, but make sure you include those players. A major sci fi universe that the gamers can shape from day one? Can't find that this side of Antares.

If you are tired of playing games where you have no hope of ever communicating with the rules team, fiction team or model team, then Maelstrom's Edge is for you.

Why always with the "tired"? How about more with the "excited"? "We think you'll love being part of a game that evolves as the designers come to you for ideas/results/hugs. You can talk to our writers, sculptors and rules committee whenever you like. Your enthusiasm inspires us to keep upping our game."

-What is the selling point of this game?
Ultimately, no other game on the market combines such a deep universe with a well thought out ruleset, versatile and detailed plastic models, ease of painting and a good price*

* Wait until later today to comment on any pricing thoughts as that is being shaken up

If you can find some bite-sized buzzword that encapsulates all that, it will really help you get your foot in the door. You have a total hobby experience, an immersive tabletop game that people can keep enjoying even on their lunch breaks (novels and discussions), with wallet-saving plastic minis you can't get anywhere else (drones, robots). Seems like that should be easy to explain in sales speak.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 legoburner wrote:


I'd originally typed:

Who is this game/campaign intended to appeal to?
Short answer: Anyone who is interested in wargaming

but it seemed too bland, and the opposite that I've typed is too blunt as you say - something in between would be the sweet spot, but once again we are learning this type of marketing on the trot, so suggestions are very welcome!

It's not actually that bad. In fact, that seems like a pretty big market. Just be sure to make them sound like the discerning customers with class and taste that they are.

"Anyone who is interested in wargaming and demands more"? That's me!

Sounds like you should hire bob the inquisitor as your pr guru

I definitely think the ks page would benefit from some shots of models on a gaming table, using the scenery that you've created. It would really give a better taste of the game, than simple shots of figures on white backgrounds. If you check out mantics last ks there were loads of shots of the forces in their scenery.

Also I didn't notice any faction logos/symbols which would help give them more character. I was hoping for a bit more character been displayed for each of the forces.

Ooh. Logos would be nice.

 judgedoug wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I have to admit I'm baffled by why this isn't doing better.

The designs aren't that great. And after another roundtable discussion with some of my gaming buddies, we again were baffled at some of the rules design decisions. Several of us really WANT to like it, but when both the rules and sculpts are just not good...
I hate to say it, but I think you and I and Azazelx will probably be picking up models from Miniature Market's Black Friday clearance sale.

I hope you and your friends will give Spiral Arm Studios your input. I think you make a lot of very important points about pointless token moving that doesn't add any decision making to the game.

As for the Black Friday clearance... I am worried about that, too. Too many new games end up in the bargain bin because of mistakes made during, or even before, the kickstarter. I really hope Medge finds its stride soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 malfred wrote:
Ooh. Logos would be nice.

If no one else has made any, I'll try my hand at it. I figure the Karists will use something easy to scrawl on a wall or scrape into sand and then brush away, say a simple spiral with points in the cardinal directions, or a spiral with a symbolic ray coming down. The Epirians should have a fairly bland corporate logo, with perhaps a great font to use on official letterhead.

Check out update number 3 on the KS, I was under the impression that the two faction logos were available as fourm avatars.

Edit: Looking at the MEdge official website the logos are also shown on the stuido models gallery page.

I see them now. I think, thematically, that the Karist's logo would look good in a less polished format. The official logo will look good on packaging, but what's the fun of cutting edge fanaticism if you don't get to spraypaint your faith on anything that doesn't move (anymore)?

I just read the novel extract, and I'm really not fan of the writing. I hate to be blunt but it's simply not strong, and sadly nothing makes me want to read any more of the book. A lot of awkward sentences and weak descriptions. I say this as a books industry professional, having been buyer for two of the largest companies in the UK, so it's not just random criticism.

Ah bob, always looking for problems to find solutions to lol... you know you can paint whatever symbol you want on them right? Heck you can JUST spray paint them if you need to

I feel like I should give the reason I backed.

Bob kinda nailed what I've been feeling. I purchased to support the dakka team, and get some Karists. I love that it is hips, and I'm going in for the models I want. (Doing a trade with Ritides.) I went in for a pledge of 90. I LOVE YOUR TERRAIN ADDITIONS. I would join in a contest themed around using MEdge terrain sprue to build the "best or coolest," building for sure. You could even use a contest like that to giveaway some product, have it across forums, etc. Of course you'd have to moderate it but, it would bring attention to your product.

That being said... I'm not tired of 40k. There isn't a reason or even a community for me to play this game in, as my local meta will never play this sadly once it releases.

You have some great benefits and gems to focus on. I'm not trying to belittle, be an arse, or condescending but, maybe just a tad bit less of "tired of 40k?" and more of "check out our awesome world that we love, and hope you will too."

It reminds me of the Oxyclean commercials. "Tired of tough stains and grease? THEN YOU NEED OXYCLEAN."

Just saying. Focus on your beautiful world, your fluff, the terrain possibilities, product pitch and your fine plastic.

You have been doing a lot of good though. I have nothing but praise for your move with the 90$ sweet spot. I was only pledging that high because Ritides came to me with an offer for a trade. I was still lenient and held off from pledging until the Hunter and your terrain was added. Those two additions saved this KS for me, and I pledged.

Looks like there are logos.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Ah bob, always looking for problems to find solutions to lol... you know you can paint whatever symbol you want on them right? Heck you can JUST spray paint them if you need to

I only talked about logos because someone else brought them up. I couldn't remember seeing any, so I thought I would take a positive step there. The last comment was more just an opinion than any kind of criticism or critique. I'm kind of insulted you think I'm ever going to paint my minis. It's like you don't know me at all.


Anyway, more on the Kickstarter strategy. Obviously I have my opinions, but I would really like to hear opinions from other people. (I'm the guy who saw the first announcement and thought Medge would break $1million.)

What do you think are the strengths of the game? What are the weaknesses? What can Spiral Arm do to play up their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses?

If you haven't pledged, why not? What would it take to make you reconsider?

....


I have heard the Epirians, already tooled for thousands of dollars, described as a millstone around Medge's neck. They are the Basilean Men At Arms for the Maelstrom's Edge universe. Even knowing about the Sunken Costs Fallacy, SAS are not going to scrap a sprue that cost a significant chunk of their initial capital. Does anyone have any ideas for how to downplay these minis to emphasize the Hunters and Sacrecrows? Is there a way to make them into a competitive kit to purchase?

SAS's great strength is their plastic tooling. Perhaps it's not too late to salvage the Contractors with a reworked sprue? Maybe there can be a stretch goal for a little WGF-style arm sprue with better proportioned arms and a helmeted head? Just a tiny sprue with two pairs of customer-friendly arms and twp heads, thrown into the box in sufficient numbers, could increase utility of the kit. Call it the elite contractor upgrade sprue and kill two birds with one albatross.

The setting is also a big mystery. Most people seem to find it depressing instead of exciting. However, the makers are holding back a lot of info, and have the power to create global campaigns that evolve the universe through customer interaction, so surely this weakness is only temporary.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does anyone have any ideas for how to downplay these minis to emphasize the Hunters and Sacrecrows? Is there a way to make them into a competitive kit to purchase?

Actually, a lot of it might just be the presentation. Whoever painted these miniatures is clearly a pro, beautiful work, some of the best I've seen in a kickstarter... However, they apparently suck balls at assembling models in realistic poses. Case in point: the hunter robot. Definitely a cool model, but his feet look so ridiculous in that pose. it reminds me of how a Lego man looks when he is put in a walk pose.

For reference, this is what feet should do when the robot has an open stance:


You will notice the front foot has rotated independently of the leg, so that it remains flush with the ground (not the leg). The hunter robot's feet would only be flush with the ground if he were standing inside a giant hamster ball. Maybe that's a limitation of the model, perhaps the feet are fused to the leg and can't be rotated. If so, then the modeler should have worked within those limitations and put him in a more neutral pose (as in the artwork). The wide action-stance just draws attention to the fact that his feet don't bend realistically, and makes him look goofy.

With the Epirians, it's hard to say how much is the kit, and how much is just awkward posing. I recall the Sanguinary Guard were amazing kits, but if they weren't posed right they were also very easy to get wrong, and looked like puppets.

The Karist appear to have good arms (and the shoulder pad is separate ala space marines). It would be nice to see what the Epirians look like converted with Karist arms, and maybe the neck cut a little shorter.

When SAS presented the terrain sprue, they gave it to the modelers and let them go wild, and the results are amazing. It's a shame they didn't do that with the miniatures. It would be nice to be looking at the possibilities of the models, but instead I feel like we're being shown the limitations.

 Smacks wrote:


Actually, a lot of it might just be the presentation. Whoever painted these miniatures is clearly a pro, beautiful work, some of the best I've seen in a kickstarter... However, they apparently suck balls at assembling models in realistic poses. Case in point: the hunter robot. Definitely a cool model, but his feet look so ridiculous in that pose. it reminds me of how a Lego man looks when he is put in a walk pose.

For reference, this is what feet should do when the robot has an open stance:

Spoiler:

You will notice the front foot has rotated independently of the leg, so that it remains flush with the ground (not the leg). The hunter robot's feet would only be flush with the ground if he were standing inside a giant hamster ball. Maybe that's a limitation of the model, perhaps the feet are fused to the leg and can't be rotated. If so, then the modeler should have worked within those limitations and put him in a more neutral pose (as in the artwork). The wide action-stance just draws attention to the fact that his feet don't bend realistically, and makes him look goofy.

With the Epirians, it's hard to say how much is the kit, and how much is just awkward posing. I recall the Sanguinary Guard were amazing kits, but if they weren't posed right they were also very easy to get wrong, and looked like puppets.

The Karist appear to have good arms (and the shoulder pad is separate ala space marines). It would be nice to see what the Epirians look like converted with Karist arms, and maybe the neck cut a little shorter.

When SAS presented the terrain sprue, they gave it to the modelers and let them go wild, and the results are amazing. It's a shame they didn't do that with the miniatures. It would be nice to be looking as the possibilities of the models, but instead I feel like we're being shown the limitations.

Well, I can't say for sure but:

Although many of the robots employed by the Foundation come in all manner of shapes – tracked, wheeled and even floating – for some roles, only a walker type will work. In the sphere of war, an Epirian staple is the Hunter class Warmech. A ubiquitous and iconic model for many Epirian franchises.

Designed to intimidate, the bipedal hunter class (GDV-1011 model) robots are robustly armored. Heavily armed as standard with a Maglock Chaingun and MIssile clusters, a base defended by even a few Hunters can hold its own against all but the most determined of attacks. Offensively Hunters are a prime vector for Epirian Battlefield control.

The model stands 48mm tall and has five different gun options. We'll be covering the rules in greater detail later this week along with detailed sprue pictures. The hunter is built from three different sprues and has a great amount of poseability featuring:

Ball joints on the hips

180 degree joints on the feet

Partial ball joints on the shoulders (easily extended)

80 degree joints at the elbows

A rotatable hand

2 alternate rocket pods

A Flakk Cannon, Dual Suppressor Machine Gun and Maglock Chaingun option, with dual wielding possible for all but the Maglock Chaingun.

I think it has the same possibilities as the contemptor by the look of it. A lot of people posed contemptors horribly statically, barely any motion or character. I made it my mission to do a few that disproved it -

So usually it was stuff like this -




Or brave but not very well executed attempts at dynamism like this -



To stuff like this -


(Sorry for tooting my own horn but trying to make a point :S)

or this




Looking at that model, I can already see plenty of articulation and possibilities for some very nice posing. The only thing that doesn't lend itself to over the top dynamic posing is the static head, but that can be compensated for with correct weight/balance distribution considered while posing... things like which hip is higher when you are walking with your right foot forward... or how much or little your waist twists when firing a weapon, or how you brace when holding a heavy object in each hand. All the same tricks animators use to convince you a drawing has weight and mass.

In any case, will it be as poseable as say, a revoltech figure? Definitely not, it is still a big armored robot and making the arms stick straight out to the sides probably isn't gonna happen... but it puts the classic dread, and even the new admech automata to shame if you ask me for poseability, and I would argue is likely on par with a crisis suit by the look of it, but with much more solid legs. Only minorly less poseable than a contemptor due to the head and larger shoulders.

I dunno now having looked at it in that way, it is pretty unfair in my view to pick on them for the poseability, I mead look at the recent admech bots, they are tons more statically posed than even the current hunter pics! A little credit due to SAS for this one I think, though again, I am biased.

All that being said, it certainly would be great to see some 'posing demo' type shots of just glued up models, even silly poses, just to show the range of motion available. Also the other weapon systems, as apparently there are quite a few!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What do you think are the strengths of the game? What are the weaknesses? What can Spiral Arm do to play up their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses?

If you haven't pledged, why not? What would it take to make you reconsider?

I have not pledged because there are two things I want - female infantry and auxiliary units for same - and one is non-existent and the other has a flawed execution. I've posted before the kind of thing I'd like to see out of a female infantry kit, but at best I'm in for a two year wait for that. The drones I don't like because they are unrealistic in ways that they don't need to be. Giving the humanoid drones the option to be built with two hands and either handheld or vambrace-mounted weapons (like XCOM's MEC troopers) and redesigning the flying drones so they could fly would not interfere with the goal of making good looking robots, but it would make them look better to people who care about such things.