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 insaniak wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Early in the campaign it was noted that the model bases may be revised at a later date, and there were questions about the use of round bases for infantry whether or not the flying units would stay on hex bases or move over to round plastic bases.

I think you may have misread something there. There has never been any question about round bases for the infantry, and the hex bases for the flying units are fixed due to tooling costs. That was said right from the start.

The only question around bases was about whether or not the larger models would get them, which comes down to the campaign total.

Perhaps, though I also worded that sentence poorly. I recall talk of eventually moving the flying bases from hexed to round. Is that accurate? That they weren't currently on round bases because of tooling costs, and base changes may occur in the future. Do I have that right? Its been long enough now that I don't recall the specifics but it made me think at the time that some people would have to rebase their models down the road.

It may have been mentioned as a ' way down the road' possibility, but certainly not as something that would be imminent. And given what had been said about the basing rules, rebasing would be unlikely to be required... Although for flight bases, it's not a difficult preposition. Just pop the base off the stem and stick the new base on there.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Perhaps, though I also worded that sentence poorly. I recall talk of eventually moving the flying bases from hexed to round. Is that accurate? That they weren't currently on round bases because of tooling costs, and base changes may occur in the future. Do I have that right? Its been long enough now that I don't recall the specifics but it made me think at the time that some people would have to rebase their models down the road

There are no current plans for us to release circular flight bases.

Some people would prefer to mount the flying stands onto our round bases, and we said that we would make sure that the rules allow for this if players would like to do so.

If for some reason we did release circular flight bases in the future, I can promise you players would absolutely be able to use either, they will never be forced to rebase their models by us.

 insaniak wrote:


GW has a lot more freedom to create loss-leaders than a new startup does.

That, and MEdge includes a lot of card components, something GW moved away from years ago, specifically to reduce the cost of their starter sets.

You're right, they do.

But that doesn't make them any less competition.

And I'll be honest...the card components here do nothing for me. It all looks like stuff that most people will replace with Litko acrylic if they really start playing the game.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
And I wasn't talking about Salute. I was referring to American players who saw the models among their gaming group. In America. Oh, wait, sarcastic ellipses are need...

Naturally those that are part of the design team have gotten early models to work with, and some of our design team is based is based in the US. The comments you're referring to were from someone who is a friend of one of the team that has seen those models.

Besides team members personally showing models to people on occasion and Salute, that's really the entirety of it. However, I do understand with the internet when a few different people are commenting about how they saw the models it can feel like there is some kind of 'in' club that you're not part of, even when that's not really the case at all.

As an answer to bob's post, for me it's all about the miniature design. There has been a lot (too much imo) of talk about how technically complex the sprues are, and how well the minis go together... and honestly I don't care. First and foremost I want the miniatures to look amazing, no matter how they are produced. And they don't. I get a 90s feel from most of the ME minis, in terms of design sensibilities, sculpt detail, posing etc. The golden standard for me when it comes to plastic is stuff like GW or Kingdom Death, and ME isn't even close to being in the same ballpark as those. It's a whole different league, no matter how many sliding moulds have been used. The rules sound very cool, the fluff interesting, but none of that matters if I don't like the models. That's the sad truth of it in my case.

I also agree that the KS has been underwhelming in terms of reveals and future possibilities for the game. It's so pragmatic that it's almost like your parents telling you "you can't do that, that's not how things work, temper your expectations, be realistic" etc etc. It's extremely well-managed, to the point of being dull.

Any chance to look at the actual rules yet?

Well, a bit of crossposting from the main thread, but here's my rundown on what I've seen.

Epirian Foundation:
The "default" sci-fi humans with robots and space soldiers. On one hand an overused trope, on the other hand a staple of the genre and you'd probably produce a whole the faction lineup if you don't include something like that. When I first saw the Contractors and the small drones my first reaction was "meh", but with the scarecrows and hunters you've added some nice models and truth be told I am a sucker for this type of army stuff.
Nice, but as of yet a bit generic. Considering the aimed scope of the game you probably do not want to include tanks or any larger vehicles, so to make this faction more interesting they should get something else. Since from what little I've read of the fluff, you might want to exploit their widespread connections with different civilizations and bring in some alien specialists, mercenaries (interstellar corporation, got to have something for the dirty work) or maybe some sort of weaponized construction vehicle. I'm looking forward to try out some camo pattern or other on them, but otherwise I am more interested in which factions you plan on developing in the future.

Karist:

Our resident drugged-up mob of fanatics. The mix of stormtrooper aesthetics and nutjob ideology make these rather more interesting to me than the EF, but that's just personal personal taste so far. Their armor looks good albeit not really special. Well, that's not necessary since their flair comes in good part from the space-alien-thingies (and that damn OSL, need to learn to do that before i start working on those guys). The Angels are a very unconventional choice (to me at least). I mostly dig their design. Shapeless horrors from outer space are less overused than space-bugs but that flesh-backpack on the large angel looks very strange. I have the strong feeling it will get remodelled or greenstuffed by quite a lot of people.
I feel that a little mistake was made by giving the Karist that assasin type unit. I haven't read much of the fluff here either, but infiltration is not intuitively associated with big power-armored fanatics. It would have been a great area of occupation for another angel-type medium-sized (bigger than the flyers, smaller than the mature angel) alien unit. That ship's sailed, so I'd suggest some other angel that is less combat-oriented and more utility-type support unit. Something that gives advancing infantry some sort of fog to hide behind? A mind-controll bug that synchronizes a squad to inhuman levels? Dunno. Since the Karist seem to copy their tech from angel biology there might be something where it's just simpler to use an angel for instead of a technical solution.

I am looking forward to the remaining factions (though I fear it will be quite a while until they are unveiled). A general information here would be much appreciated, even if it's very vague. Say, something like: kind-of like big, orange furry creatures that have very strong arms and are good climbers and are kind of space librarians who try to save as many books and other storage media from the maelstorm. You get a raw idea of what type of aliens (or humans) you have and what their main goal is.

 Kosake wrote:
Say, something like: kind-of like big, orange furry creatures that have very strong arms and are good climbers and are kind of space librarians who try to save as many books and other storage media from the maelstorm. You get a raw idea of what type of aliens (or humans) you have and what their main goal is.

Oook.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There's no big conspiracy here, unless everyone who went to Salute was in on it...

And I wasn't talking about Salute. I was referring to American players who saw the models among their gaming group. In America. Oh, wait, sarcastic ellipses are need...

Are you still harping on this? It's really not a big conspiracy! One of the guys in our game group did some work for Maelstrom's Edge and got several of the sprues in advance. He wasn't able to show us until they had already been revealed (due to NDA's) and he brought them to one of the gaming nights to show people. There were already four backers of the KS at this point and he wanted to show us what we were backing. I'm sorry you weren't invited, if you want to come visit the central coast of California, I'm sure we can arrange you seeing the sprues yourself.

 Ozymandias wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There's no big conspiracy here, unless everyone who went to Salute was in on it...

And I wasn't talking about Salute. I was referring to American players who saw the models among their gaming group. In America. Oh, wait, sarcastic ellipses are need...

Are you still harping on this? It's really not a big conspiracy! One of the guys in our game group did some work for Maelstrom's Edge and got several of the sprues in advance. He wasn't able to show us until they had already been revealed (due to NDA's) and he brought them to one of the gaming nights to show people. There were already four backers of the KS at this point and he wanted to show us what we were backing. I'm sorry you weren't invited, if you want to come visit the central coast of California, I'm sure we can arrange you seeing the sprues yourself.

Cut the attitude. Read my post for context, but the fact that both you and Insaniak are referring to this issue as a "conspiracy" is ridiculous. There was a lot of negativity regarding the Empirians, and as has already been stated in this thread, there was lots of moderation of said criticism. Your posts and Grey Templar's posts about the sneak preview you both got were odd, especially considering how Grey Templar initially framed his change of heart regarding the sculpts. It stunk of some really lame viral marketing. You guys looked like shills for SAS.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
... and as has already been stated in this thread, there was lots of moderation of said criticism.

Can you point to an example of this?

Because so far as I'm aware, there has been no moderation of criticism. The only moderation that has occured in the main MEdge thread has been to attempt to keep the thread on topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
. It stunk of some really lame viral marketing. You guys looked like shills for SAS.

Hence the reference to a conspiracy.

Or is it only those with a negative opinion who are allowed to use hyperbole?


This, to be honest, is where a lot of the perceived problem is coming from. There's this small group of people who dislike aspects of the project who seem to take any disagreement with their opinion as censure, dismissal, or the work of paid shills, rather than as simply the presentation of a differing opinion.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, here's the thing. I want Medge to survive and prosper. I want to be able to read Medge novels while building Medge minis that I will never paint. I want people to have enthusiastic discussions about the Medge background and rules. I want a Medge HHHobby. I gather that's what the creators were aiming for, too.

There are quite a few points in your comments that are not quite accurate, or do not fully apply to Spiral Arm Studios. I'm replying 'off the record' but just wanted to address some of them in case others have similar concerns. I wont address everything though, but please dont take silence on points for confirmation, more that time is limited this week, so best to just point out the key ones.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The Kickstarter campaign doesn't seem to have lit the room on fire. This worries me because I'm afraid people who passed on the KS will have inertia against Medge when it comes out in retail. With only a few hundred backers worldwide, Medge will have a long uphill struggle to succeed based on local gaming clubs, word of mouth, and FLGS presence.

Getting people to start a new game is a big ask, which is why we are pushing with quality first and foremost, and a constant drive of fiction and hobby materials to slowly rope people in. The game is the key element, but Maelstrom's Edge as a whole consists of fiction, models, audiobooks, a card game and more. Each of those enhance growth in the others. The majority who have passed on the kickstarter have largely done so for anti-kickstarter reasons and most people start games by word of mouth rather than being exposed to it. Provided our backers are pleased with what they get, organic growth (which the business plan is based around) is well seeded, and with several hundred backers we are well seeded across a diverse geographic area instead of being locked into the areas which we could manually promote. It will take time and quality, but there is strong will from a large number of our backers for Maelstrom's Edge to thrive based on what they've seen so far, without even getting the game in hand - exactly what we were hoping for.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Meanwhile, it's clear that hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested in the plastic tooling, the art, the game components, the fiction and the rules writing. If Medge is slow to earn that back, it will deter future expansion, which will give the game the stagnant feeling that can keep new players away. SAS already stated that the level of KS success will determine future retail pricing, box contents, and other stuff, which means we're looking at a more conservative retail release with likely less-attractive per-unit prices.

You worry too much here, the $20K funding point is all we needed to get us to launch, everything else gets pumped into future development and we have a deal in place for matching funds from investors which will allow us to continue pushing forwards without issue. While the kickstarter volume affects the price point via order volumes, it is a relatively small margin which can be buffered by a whole bunch of things, and price point is everything, so we'll be staying at or under the impulse purchase level for sure.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I suspect a good global campaign could draw in interest even from people who would prefer more elegant systems. I'll be blunt: this campaign feels like an attempt to capture that old 40k feeling from back when everyone loved 40k. Why was 40k so popular? Widespread participation (for many reasons). Why not have an Eye of Terror campaign that everyone can participate in? Give an invite to everyone who pledged for rules in one form or another, have some 'combat simulation' beta playtesting, and then begin the actual campaign so that the playtesters are rewarded with a chance to take part in something that will affect the greater Medge universe. If the results matter (even if they only affect one faction or one novel's story arc or one permanent character's bio), I bet it would bring a lot of enthusiasm to the rules and the fluff conjointly. I would like to see the rules, fluff and art for the other factions debuted for the campaign, even if it means those players have to proxy for those factions.

Global campaigns are an idea we've thrown around a lot, and we'll likely end up doing one or more given our initially distributed player base.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

If everyone gets a terrain sprue in the package, why not have a contest? Make some base rules, such as a time limit of a week and a budget of $20, and see who can make the best terrain out of flower pots, fast food boxes, biscotti bins, CD spindles, etc. The winning terrain entries get to be used for the big action set pieces for a future novel or short story that will set the mood for another campaign... A Hobby for everyone.

Contests and similar model related promotional events are also planned for the future, but good suggestions, thanks

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Medge has followed a very strict plan during the campaign. Unfortunately, it was missing the kind of pizzazz that makes for an event Kickstarter and the kind of selling that makes for a must-buy kickstarter. Mantic and CMON both have their own KS formulas, and I have no doubt that either of them could have taken the current Medge product, chaps and all, and made half a million with it. I've already posted some of my thoughts, and I've seen Buzzsaw comment on this, too. I would love to hear from the many people who are smarter and more experienced than I am. I would love to see Medge have a slick retail release that gets everyone's attention.

I'm sure they could have, and I'm sure that it would have been easy to break well into 6 figures if we'd had all the options, bells and whistles, but they would be much more harmful to the long term development and growth of Maelstrom's Edge. A really good one to look at is Home Raiders which is a solid game, and their KS plan has been pretty much bang on what you'd expect with community development, heavy advertising on many sites, add-on packages constantly being revealed, etc. The concept is good and original, the models decent but with them as for other new model companies, the kickstarter conversion rate is dramatically lower than it was even 6 months ago as delay after delay and crap release after crap release have put people off. We've certainly run a campaign that has not been overtly emotional, and we've not been throwing things in based on community response because everything is precisely costed out with plans that change based on backer numbers and the the cash flowing in. We are presenting stability, reliability (in the form of a real update every day, providing new content every single day), and we strongly believe that is the best way forwards for the long term, for solid retail relationships and for the smallest potential range of issues. You cant discount the kickstarter pedigree and huge existing KS audiences that CMON, mantic and others have and all the bonuses that come with it. There's no shortage of retailers who do not like backing those companies because they sell most of their stock to KS backers though. You can also count the very large number of sci-fi wargames which have failed over the years both on and off kickstarter, and compared to them, we are going strong and have a very strong background, model range (12 distinct plastic designs at launch), and supplementary range (terrain, card game, etc).

To answer the few people who have questioned why there has been no community model development, it is very straightforward:
1. Managing such development fails every time - there are always people who dislike things, and given the option to influence plastic sci-fi model design (a dream for so many of us on here), the aggressive vocalisation of opinions would demolish productivity and destroy morale. There are plenty who have been very vocal about their dislike of the contractors for instance, but they are already the 4th most popular sprue in the boxed set by voting demand. Everyone would want to create 'their' game and 'their' models and in such cases the loudest voices generally win by attrition. Community development would not be able to agree on model proportions let alone anything else.
2. There are many technical limitations when designing a model, including sprue space, mould draw angles and ease of ejection, target part count, width of parts, strength of parts, clutch of parts, number of models on each sprue, ease of assembly, posing flexibility, cross-range compatibility (including with future/unreleased models), fit to the rules, fit to the fiction, fit to the artwork, price of the sculpt, price of the mould, revision count of the sculpt, sculptor talent, target price of the model, weight of the sprue, potential rival models in the marketplace (past present and future), potential compatible models in the marketplace (past present and future), and many more things. A huge amount of those would be toxic to vocalise as well without having to make the entire business plan open to all eyes.
3. It takes around two years to create a plastic model, so designs that are passed around would be long forgotten and everyone would have moved on to the new hotness by the time something actually came out.
4. The appearance of models in real life is usually extremely different to how they are presented online. Short of 3D printing every sculpt and sending it round to everyone, there is no way for people to get a real feel for a model based on screen images alone. We go through dozens of prints for every model and every part internally as it is. People who give feedback based on images alone, generally create models which have notable production issues.
It would be insane to seek community feedback during the model development process as nobody would be happy!

 insaniak wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
... and as has already been stated in this thread, there was lots of moderation of said criticism.

Can you point to an example of this?

Because so far as I'm aware, there has been no moderation of criticism. The only moderation that has occured in the main MEdge thread has been to attempt to keep the thread on topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
. It stunk of some really lame viral marketing. You guys looked like shills for SAS.

Hence the reference to a conspiracy.

Or is it only those with a negative opinion who are allowed to use hyperbole?


This, to be honest, is where a lot of the perceived problem is coming from. There's this small group of people who dislike aspects of the project who seem to take any disagreement with their opinion as censure, dismissal, or the work of paid shills, rather than as simply the presentation of a differing opinion.

Let me find the quote were Mods asked to step back from the main ME thread due to public perceptions of over-moderation. I know I just read that today.

Regarding the conspiracy claims, that is your word not mine. Labeling my observations as a conspiracy attempts to negate my claims and label me a lunatic. You even used that label before realizing what issue I was talking about, so really, who is creating a problem here?

In case you aren't familiar with the incident it occurs on pages 57 through 60 of the main thread, and my issue initially was with Grey Templar telling doubters of the Empirians to "stop" doubting because the copies he'd seen in person blew his mind. That is rather rude to post considering most people aren't going to benefit from seeing those figures in person during the Kickstarter, so not only was his point moot, it was condescending. That was my issue at the time.

The whole incident bothered me and smacked of some lame viral marketing to try and get people's opinions to change on the Empirians. Because the incident bothered me I referenced it in my post in this thread as to why I am not backing, and then I get you and Ozy up my keister with claims of conspiracy.

But go ahead, think that this is all just because you don't agree with me. Its a conspiracy, dude. I just don't have the words to express my frustration so I don tinfoil hats and poo-poo amazing projects just because. Sure.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

The one misstep I think they did make was initially moderating the N&R thread too heavily (not deliberately I think, but since all the MODs wanted to see what was going on too much moderating got done), but that said those who were strongly negative were probably not going to buy in in a big way anyway, it just gave things a bit of an awkward look if the first day or two

There's always going to be heavier moderation in threads that have more moderators active in them, simply because it makes it more likely that said moderators will see the things that need moderating.

That being said, the reaction to the mod presence in the news thread was noted, and a deliberate effort was made for the mods to all step back a bit.

Oh, you said it Insaniak. Is this conspiracy on my part, or are you admitting here that moderation in the main ME thread was heavy and as a result the mods were asked to ease up? Why would there be a need to "step back a bit" on the moderation if it wasn't too heavy to begin with?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Let me find the quote were Mods asked to step back from the main ME thread due to public perceptions of over-moderation. I know I just read that today.

You misunderstood. No, we didn't post a public announcement that the mods would spend less time in that thread... that would have just been an invitation for people to troll the thread.

But we did make a conscious decision for the mods to be slightly less involved in that thread, in order to try to lessen the perception that the thread was over-moderated, which was caused in large part simply by the participation of so many moderators in the thread.

Regarding the conspiracy claims, that is your word not mine. Labeling my observations as a conspiracy attempts to negate my claims and label me a lunatic. You even used that label before realizing what issue I was talking about, so really, who is creating a problem here?

You were complaining that people were being seen as shills due to their praising models after having seen them at some secret event that nobody else was invited to. I'm not really sure how else you were expecting a comment like that to be perceived.

Oh, you said it Insaniak. Is this conspiracy on my part, or are you admitting here that moderation in the main ME thread was heavy and as a result the mods were asked to ease up? Why would there be a need to "step back a bit" on the moderation if it wasn't too heavy to begin with?

Here's the thing - Moderation of threads on Dakka is a result of one of two things - either a report is made by a poster or posters through the Mod Alert button, or a mod who happens to be reading a thread notices a problem in that thread and sorts it out.

When more mods are reading a given thread, potential issues are more likely to be seen quickly. Threads that veer wildly off-topic, or that descend into horribleness are generally those that have less moderator involvement... basically because we don't know there's a problem straight away, and so things have more time in which to slide before the issue gets seen to. If we're right there in the thread as stuff occurs, it gets stomped on more quickly.

What happened in the MEdge thread was simply that most of Dakka's mods were avidly following the thread, because we're all rather interested in this particular project. As a result, any sign that the thread was going to wander off-topic was noticed quite quickly, with mods jumping in to keep things on track.

This is no different to what would happen in any other thread on Dakka that had a similar level of involvement from the mod team... but because of the specific nature of this thread, people complained about us being biased and trying to overly moderate it. And so we backed off, and tried to let the thread run its course more organically.

So it's not so much that moderation was too heavy to begin with... but simply that it was perceived as being more heavily moderated than it should have been.

 Ozymandias wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There's no big conspiracy here, unless everyone who went to Salute was in on it...

And I wasn't talking about Salute. I was referring to American players who saw the models among their gaming group. In America. Oh, wait, sarcastic ellipses are need...

Are you still harping on this? It's really not a big conspiracy! One of the guys in our game group did some work for Maelstrom's Edge and got several of the sprues in advance. He wasn't able to show us until they had already been revealed (due to NDA's) and he brought them to one of the gaming nights to show people. There were already four backers of the KS at this point and he wanted to show us what we were backing. I'm sorry you weren't invited, if you want to come visit the central coast of California, I'm sure we can arrange you seeing the sprues yourself.

Near Santa Cruz? I may take you up on that in a few weeks.

I have more pictures!

First, a quick change to the Contractor's kneepads.


Second, an Epirian soldier in a space activity suit - the kind of spacesuit that uses mechanical pressure rather than air pressure to avoid the space hickey problem.

I agree somewhat with Darktraveller777, that the way i perceive the Medge thread(s) , is that those who work on the medge project somewhat dismiss critique, and some people who work on the project are slightly over excited in their praise, which i can understand, it is their baby afterall.

But reading so many kickstarter threads where every facet of other campaigns were picked apart and issues were addressed by the creators (or not )

I find that the medge interaction with the dakka community illusionary, critiques are ignored, dismissed or belittled.
Critique is not all negative, most dakkites want Medge to succeed. If it is ok that GW gets heavily critiqued as have been other companies and kickstarters then medge should be no different.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

I find that the medge interaction with the dakka community illusionary, critiques are ignored, dismissed or belittled.

I don't think that's at all fair to the SAS team, frankly, as they've spent an awful lot of time responding to feedback over the course of this kickstarter.

Not agreeing with an opinion is not the same as dismissing it.

 AlexHolker wrote:
I have more pictures!

First, a quick change to the Contractor's kneepads.

Spoiler:

Haha you didn't have to actually change it mate, it was just one random bloke on the internet making a comment. I do prefer them this way though.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Second, an Epirian soldier in a space activity suit - the kind of spacesuit that uses mechanical pressure rather than air pressure to avoid the space hickey problem.

Spoiler:

I don't mind it, except a few things seem...pointless almost? I mean, I know it'd look boring, but aren't you better off having shoulder pads and knee pads and stuff under the suit, or a part of it, rather than bolted on/strapped on the outside? Is it to keep similarities between the two sketches? I dunno why they'd have extra gubbinz hanging off a suit that you don't really want catching on anything as you bounce around the void.

Although keep in mind that if you're mirroring already released MEdge artwork with this I'm not going to be making any sense, but that's because I haven't been keeping up with the artwork released so much as the fiction (since I enjoy the fiction more) ha.

edit: sorry, I just realised it might seem like I'm just picking on your images or something, I'm not wanting it to come off like that, they're just interesting and there to comment on, and I figured they wouldn't be up here if you didn't want comments.

As regards community involvement, several core members of Spiral Arm have written a number of detailed posts engaging with criticism of the rules, figures and fluff.

 motyak wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
Second, an Epirian soldier in a space activity suit - the kind of spacesuit that uses mechanical pressure rather than air pressure to avoid the space hickey problem.

Spoiler:

I don't mind it, except a few things seem...pointless almost? I mean, I know it'd look boring, but aren't you better off having shoulder pads and knee pads and stuff under the suit, or a part of it, rather than bolted on/strapped on the outside? Is it to keep similarities between the two sketches? I dunno why they'd have extra gubbinz hanging off a suit that you don't really want catching on anything as you bounce around the void.

Since the pressure suit and the other stuff is going to have conflicting requirements, I thought that treating them as separate garments seemed the most practical way of doing it. A mechanical pressure suit allows more mobility than wearing what is basically an inflated balloon like a regular spacesuit, but it has to conform more closely to the body and has a particular "grain" to it, so being able to put it on first without a great big slab of ballistic vest getting in the way couldn't hurt.

As for bouncing around, the idea wasn't really for this to be used in microgravity, just in environments lacking a habitable atmosphere. Mars, for instance, has 3/8ths the gravity of Earth but less than 1/100th the atmospheric pressure.

Although keep in mind that if you're mirroring already released MEdge artwork with this I'm not going to be making any sense, but that's because I haven't been keeping up with the artwork released so much as the fiction (since I enjoy the fiction more) ha.

This artwork is only based on the male Epirian Contractors. If there is any official concept art for female or full-time Epirian soldiers, I haven't seen it.

edit: sorry, I just realised it might seem like I'm just picking on your images or something, I'm not wanting it to come off like that, they're just interesting and there to comment on, and I figured they wouldn't be up here if you didn't want comments.

No, I'm happy to hear people's thoughts about it. You had a good point about the knee pads that didn't contradict my core goals, so it's already been helpful.

Ah right, I was thinking of the space station "miners" and stuff from the first book (still haven't reached the second, damn uni), they are moving around quite a lot in their work, and since these guys are them after having been pressed into service (basically), I guess that's where I got tripped up.

As what is basically used as an environmental suit, yeah I like it a lot more. The pads on the outside then will actually be good, it'll stop you nicking your suit's shoulder, which would be harder to see in the helmet/is just an awkwardish part of the body I imagine in an environment like that with slightly limited gravity and hazardous atmosphere/lack thereof. I like it a lot more now with the explanation, cheers.

 insaniak wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

I find that the medge interaction with the dakka community illusionary, critiques are ignored, dismissed or belittled.

I don't think that's at all fair to the SAS team, frankly, as they've spent an awful lot of time responding to feedback over the course of this kickstarter.

Not agreeing with an opinion is not the same as dismissing it.

You are right i was over reacting a bit. maybe because my points on some of the models were ignored

insaniak wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Let me find the quote were Mods asked to step back from the main ME thread due to public perceptions of over-moderation. I know I just read that today.

You misunderstood. No, we didn't post a public announcement that the mods would spend less time in that thread... that would have just been an invitation for people to troll the thread.

But we did make a conscious decision for the mods to be slightly less involved in that thread, in order to try to lessen the perception that the thread was over-moderated, which was caused in large part simply by the participation of so many moderators in the thread.

Regarding the conspiracy claims, that is your word not mine. Labeling my observations as a conspiracy attempts to negate my claims and label me a lunatic. You even used that label before realizing what issue I was talking about, so really, who is creating a problem here?

You were complaining that people were being seen as shills due to their praising models after having seen them at some secret event that nobody else was invited to. I'm not really sure how else you were expecting a comment like that to be perceived.

Oh, you said it Insaniak. Is this conspiracy on my part, or are you admitting here that moderation in the main ME thread was heavy and as a result the mods were asked to ease up? Why would there be a need to "step back a bit" on the moderation if it wasn't too heavy to begin with?

This is no different to what would happen in any other thread on Dakka that had a similar level of involvement from the mod team... but because of the specific nature of this thread, people complained about us being biased and trying to overly moderate it. And so we backed off, and tried to let the thread run its course more organically.

So it's not so much that moderation was too heavy to begin with... but simply that it was perceived as being more heavily moderated than it should have been.

Kilkrazy wrote:As regards community involvement, several core members of Spiral Arm have written a number of detailed posts engaging with criticism of the rules, figures and fluff.

As a new user to Dakka, this thread is really putting me off of the community which I'd heard a lot of great things about. In just this very thread, we have normal users who are critiquing something and then every single rebuttal comes from someone with the [MOD] tag. Just on this very page, there are 3 mods! That's not the problem, but them calling normal users conspiracy theorists really doesn't come across well.

I think MEdge looks okay, sort of generic but with a little potential, but it makes me hardly want to post anything even constructive for the game now.

 legoburner wrote:
The majority who have passed on the kickstarter have largely done so for anti-kickstarter reasons and most people start games by word of mouth rather than being exposed to it.

With all due respect, is the bolded part above based on anecdotal observations or on a poll where respondents can choose one or more answers?

 warboss wrote:

 legoburner wrote:
The majority who have passed on the kickstarter have largely done so for anti-kickstarter reasons and most people start games by word of mouth rather than being exposed to it.

With all due respect, is the bolded part above based on anecdotal observations or on a poll where respondents can choose one or more answers?

Yeah, I was going to call out that quote myself, but I didn't. It's a bunch of nonsenes. "Anti-KS" reasons? Come on now....Really?

It's a GW conspiracy to put down prospective competition. Or so I've been told by reputable sources.

Well I'm one of those anti-KS and its true for me at least, I don't back KS......I back finished products.

I'm not a big fan of KS either, this is my first one. My desire to support Dakka is really what pushed me into doing it (though I very much like the mini's, I've passed on other KS with great mini's because I wasn't sure how things would pan out in the long run).