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It boils down to which is better on a dreadnought for 20 points

4x ST7 AP4 Shots Rerolling

or

4x ST6 AP4 Shots Rending

There's also the question of range you need to consider. The autocannon gets a lot more of it than the assault cannon does and this keeps the dreadnought safer and able to fire away for greater periods of time. Also the lack of twin-linked really bites for the Dreadnought and rending isn't exactly super reliable unless you're throwing a lot of potential rends out there.

Now if the dreadnought could get TL'd assault cannons...I'd still get the x2 TL autocannons because that's a lot more breathing space to be had. Even if it could double up on TL'd assault cannons, the autocannons would probably still be more competetive on anything but drop-pod'd in dreadnoughts due to advantages that superior range offers and the heightened costs.

id go auto cannon for the range

It depends on the list.

But in general i would go with the Auto.

Decent threat range for most vehicles and HPing them to death is generally the way to go.

At better range

And can be rerolled for clutch anti air and stuff.

This might be a dumb question, but in my BA codex it says auto cannons only get 2 shots. Do dreadnoughts get more shots from somewhere, or is it because of the twin linking? If an assault cannon is twin linked does that mean it's actually getting 8 shots? I kinda thought twin linking just meant rerolled 1's. Am I reading this all wrong?

Twin-linked is re-roll failed hits. I think the OP just doubled the shots for the autocannon by accident

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
This might be a dumb question, but in my BA codex it says auto cannons only get 2 shots. Do dreadnoughts get more shots from somewhere, or is it because of the twin linking? If an assault cannon is twin linked does that mean it's actually getting 8 shots? I kinda thought twin linking just meant rerolled 1's. Am I reading this all wrong?

No you're not reading it wrong. They're talking about a "rifleman" dreadnought, which is the unoffial name for one loaded with a TL autocannon on each arm.

One point in favour of the Assault Cannon is that it can be used in conjunction with a Heavy Flamer. While useless for long range shooting, getting up close with a 4-shot S6 AP4 gun and an S5 AP4 template is very scary, especially to Xenos armies. Drop one of those next to come Footdar, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders or Cron Warriors and you'll get results. Then, if you survive, charge the nearest tank with your DCCW (another advantage over the Rifleman).

If you just want a gun platform, take a Rifleman Dread, but personally I'd let Devs/Preds take that role while the Dread gets up close and personal.

 Paradigm wrote:
One point in favour of the Assault Cannon is that it can be used in conjunction with a Heavy Flamer. While useless for long range shooting, getting up close with a 4-shot S6 AP4 gun and an S5 AP4 template is very scary, especially to Xenos armies. Drop one of those next to come Footdar, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders or Cron Warriors and you'll get results. Then, if you survive, charge the nearest tank with your DCCW (another advantage over the Rifleman).

If you just want a gun platform, take a Rifleman Dread, but personally I'd let Devs/Preds take that role while the Dread gets up close and personal.

And don't also forget the dreads close combat weapon which won't have been replaced with an autocannon.

Honestly though there are so many better options for more firepower than a rifleman. If going dread at all it should be something to do with their close combat abilities imo. Otherwise you may as well just take a pred with lascannon side sponsoons for cheaper, higher firepower and higher durability, just losing 2 st6 ap- close combat attacks.

 Paradigm wrote:
One point in favour of the Assault Cannon is that it can be used in conjunction with a Heavy Flamer. While useless for long range shooting, getting up close with a 4-shot S6 AP4 gun and an S5 AP4 template is very scary, especially to Xenos armies. Drop one of those next to come Footdar, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders or Cron Warriors and you'll get results. Then, if you survive, charge the nearest tank with your DCCW (another advantage over the Rifleman).

If you just want a gun platform, take a Rifleman Dread, but personally I'd let Devs/Preds take that role while the Dread gets up close and personal.

Personally if im going up close and personal the dread of choice would be the ironclad with double heavy flamers to torch some things

True, Ironclads are point-for-point the best Dread in the codex, I think (arguably the whole game now Blenderdreads are gone?). I'm still partial to the Assault/HF/DCCW one, though, just for those times you get a good shot at Rear Armour or DS scatter out of Flamer range.

I'm not so sure - I think seige dreads have a shout at claiming first spot. Flamestorm, heavy flamer and better ccw (but 1 less attack than a dual fist ironclad). Debatable since they need a lucius pod which does increase the cost somewhat.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
One point in favour of the Assault Cannon is that it can be used in conjunction with a Heavy Flamer. While useless for long range shooting, getting up close with a 4-shot S6 AP4 gun and an S5 AP4 template is very scary, especially to Xenos armies. Drop one of those next to come Footdar, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders or Cron Warriors and you'll get results. Then, if you survive, charge the nearest tank with your DCCW (another advantage over the Rifleman).

If you just want a gun platform, take a Rifleman Dread, but personally I'd let Devs/Preds take that role while the Dread gets up close and personal.

And don't also forget the dreads close combat weapon which won't have been replaced with an autocannon.

Honestly though there are so many better options for more firepower than a rifleman. If going dread at all it should be something to do with their close combat abilities imo. Otherwise you may as well just take a pred with lascannon side sponsoons for cheaper, higher firepower and higher durability, just losing 2 st6 ap- close combat attacks.

This point right here might be game and match. Why not take a predator with the same guns for less points?

This leaves the question of what is the role of a dread then? It seems most types are built for assault.

Yep, assault is the way to gear them, in the more generic sense of the word; you don't necessarily want them in CC from the start, but you do want them operating in the 6-18" range band. At this range, they are a potential charge threat, and the combination of Heavy Flamer and Assault Cannon/Plasma Cannon/Multi-Melta can wreak havoc. Sitting at the back and plinking away with Lascannons/ML/Autocannons is better done by Devs or Preds.

Thank you all for your input. Seems, if anything dread related with autocannons is to be used, use the new Deredeo Pattern.

I get giddy with delight when people take dreadnaughts as gun platforms against me... I'll take one of my units that costs less and it will absolutely never see turn three. It will have required almost none of my attention span and very few shots.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
Thank you all for your input. Seems, if anything dread related with autocannons is to be used, use the new Deredeo Pattern.

Yep. It's pricey in every sense, but the Deredeo is a dedicated fire support pattern, so the way to go for shooty Dreads.

jakejackjake wrote:
I get giddy with delight when people take dreadnaughts as gun platforms against me... I'll take one of my units that costs less and it will absolutely never see turn three. It will have required almost none of my attention span and very few shots.

Plus theyre HORRIBLE in cc. 2 Auto cannons? 2 attacks, with a 50/50 hit chance. Throw something like a single thunderhammer and watch it crumple.

My current dreadnought is based off the Iron hands Venerable Dreadnought and Iron Father Bannus. He has a Kheres assault cannon and a chainfist. Im just counting 'as is' with just a regular assault cannon and powerfist with a chain sword bit attached underneath. Sill only counts as a regular assault cannon and a PF.

Yeah, with an assault cannon, now you have multiple threats walking up the field. Double auto cannons can be useless at times.

But 24" range sucks. I really find the assault cannon a lackluster weapon as the Imperium deploys it.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
I get giddy with delight when people take dreadnaughts as gun platforms against me... I'll take one of my units that costs less and it will absolutely never see turn three. It will have required almost none of my attention span and very few shots.

Plus theyre HORRIBLE in cc. 2 Auto cannons? 2 attacks, with a 50/50 hit chance. Throw something like a single thunderhammer and watch it crumple.

My current dreadnought is based off the Iron hands Venerable Dreadnought and Iron Father Bannus. He has a Kheres assault cannon and a chainfist. Im just counting 'as is' with just a regular assault cannon and powerfist with a chain sword bit attached underneath. Sill only counts as a regular assault cannon and a PF.

I just get giddy when people field dreadnaughts. They never and I mean never have killed more points than they cost in a game I've seen. I think they're just an awful unit in almost every variation. Very cool though.

Drop pod fragnoughts are pretty good. Except against mech.

I'm considering Bray'arth Ashmantle because he's tougher than a normal Dreadnaught (also vastly more expensive, though pretty well-armed depending on what you're fighting), but I don't think I'd run a normal Dreadnaught unless I knew I was playing a pretty laid-back game ahead of time.

jakejackjake wrote:

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
I get giddy with delight when people take dreadnaughts as gun platforms against me... I'll take one of my units that costs less and it will absolutely never see turn three. It will have required almost none of my attention span and very few shots.

Plus theyre HORRIBLE in cc. 2 Auto cannons? 2 attacks, with a 50/50 hit chance. Throw something like a single thunderhammer and watch it crumple.

My current dreadnought is based off the Iron hands Venerable Dreadnought and Iron Father Bannus. He has a Kheres assault cannon and a chainfist. Im just counting 'as is' with just a regular assault cannon and powerfist with a chain sword bit attached underneath. Sill only counts as a regular assault cannon and a PF.

I just get giddy when people field dreadnaughts. They never and I mean never have killed more points than they cost in a game I've seen. I think they're just an awful unit in almost every variation. Very cool though.

Bane of Walkers in general, not just Marine dreads. Normal Walkers need an overhaul to make them more useful and frightening for their points. I love my Deff Dreads and Kanz, but they aren't that durable. And only my CC Dread with 3 Klaws and Flamer really ever make my opponent worried if they get in.

I say assault cannon.

Personally, I'd say Assault cannons should only be used on Dreadnoughts you plan on drop podding in or bumrushing with a loaded storm raven (for some reason). If you don't want to spend the points on a dreadnought, get weapons that let it shoot from safety like the TL'd autocannons. And even with drop pod or air transported dreads you might want to ask if a multimelta would be better. Obviously against infantry heavy armies the assault cannon is the better choice and the assault cannon might be better against lightly armored vehicles with few HP than the singleshot multimelta would be if you're concerned about missing or not outright killing/crippling your target with the one shot.

Against armies like the Tyranids, there's really no guns a Dreadnought can fit that really have any ideal targets for a drop pod dread. On the other hand, getting an Ironclad dreadnought into a fight with a Bloodthirster or Trygon who can only throw out a single smash and hope for the best every turn as the Dreadnought wounds it on 2s and ignores their armor saves is hilarious and everyone should try it.

 Kain wrote:
Personally, I'd say Assault cannons should only be used on Dreadnoughts you plan on drop podding in or bumrushing with a loaded storm raven (for some reason). If you don't want to spend the points on a dreadnought, get weapons that let it shoot from safety like the TL'd autocannons. And even with drop pod or air transported dreads you might want to ask if a multimelta would be better. Obviously against infantry heavy armies the assault cannon is the better choice and the assault cannon might be better against lightly armored vehicles with few HP than the singleshot multimelta would be if you're concerned about missing or not outright killing/crippling your target with the one shot.

Against armies like the Tyranids, there's really no guns a Dreadnought can fit that really have any ideal targets for a drop pod dread. On the other hand, getting an Ironclad dreadnought into a fight with a Bloodthirster or Trygon who can only throw out a single smash and hope for the best every turn as the Dreadnought wounds it on 2s and ignores their armor saves is hilarious and everyone should try it.

Sure, but I wouldnt want to fight the Daemonkin Bloodthirsters